Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The best investment advice you'll never get

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Herman Munster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 04:28 PM
Original message
The best investment advice you'll never get
http://www.sanfran.com/home/view_story/1507/

As Google’s historic August 2004 IPO approached, the company’s senior vice president, Jonathan Rosenberg, realized he was about to spawn hundreds of impetuous young multimillionaires. They would, he feared, become the prey of Wall Street brokers, financial advisers, and wealth managers, all offering their own get-even-richer investment schemes. Scores of them from firms like J.P. Morgan Chase, UBS, Morgan Stanley, and Presidio Financial Partners were already circling company headquarters in Mountain View with hopes of presenting their wares to some soon-to-be-very-wealthy new clients.

Rosenberg didn’t turn the suitors away; he simply placed them in a holding pattern. Then, to protect Google’s staff, he proposed a series of in-house investment teach-ins, to be held before the investment counselors were given a green light to land. Company founders Sergey Brin and Larry Page and CEO Eric Schmidt were excited by the idea and gave it the go-ahead.

...

Bogle’s closing advice was as simple and direct as that of his predecessors: those brokers and financial advisers hovering at the door are there for one reason and one reason only—to take your money through exorbitant fees and transaction costs, many of which will be hidden from your view. They are, as New York attorney general Eliot Spitzer described them, nothing more than “a giant fleecing machine.” Ignore them all and invest in an index fund. And it doesn’t have to be the Vanguard 500 Index, the indexed mutual fund that Bogle himself built into the largest in the world. Any passively managed index fund will do, because they’re all basically the same.


When the industry sharks were finally allowed to enter the inner sanctum of Google, they were barraged with questions about their commissions, fees, and hidden costs, and about indexing, the almost cost-free investment strategy the Google employees had been told delivers higher net returns than all other mutual fund strategies. The assembled Wall Streeters were surprised by their reception—and a bit discouraged. Brokers and financial planners don’t like indexed mutual funds for two basic reasons. For one thing, the funds are an affront to their ego because they discount their ability to assemble a winning portfolio, the very talent they’re trained and paid to offer. Also, index funds don’t make brokers and planners much money. If you have your money in an account that’s following the natural movements of the market—also called passive investing—you don’t need fancy managers to watch it for you and charge big bucks to do so.


Brin and Page were proud of the decision to prepare their staff for the Wall Street predation. And they were glad to have launched their company where and when they did. What took place in Mountain View that spring might have never happened had Google been born in Boston, Chicago, or New York, where much of the financial community remains at war with insurgency forces that first started gathering in San Francisco 35 years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree about the predation
but I have never been sold on index funds, because if you look at a chart like this:
http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html
you can see that the general trend is up, but you can also pick out multi-decade periods in which it ends up where it began.

I'm certainly not an expert or a brave soul, having gotten out of nothing but CD's just in the last few years. I'm pretty happy with what I've got, though. The aggregate is about 10% a year, and no individual fund has lost money. (Picture me madly knocking on wood.)

Basically I buy managers. I look for people who have been with the same fund or a virtually identical one for a long time, or a team with a long and good track record. I'm chicken, so they have to lose little or nothing in bad times, no matter how much they make in good times.

My return doesn't look as good if you consider my massive unpaid research time, though! I guess I could consider it a form of entertainment.... ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Herman Munster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. index funds should comprise a portfolio based on your risk tolerances
Ideally, you buy a basket of index funds covering large cap, small cap, international, and bonds and adjust them for your risk tolerances.

If you are unable to sleep at night when stocks go down, more bonds should be in your portfolio.

If you are more aggressive, less bonds should be in your portfolio.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I know the *theory* (having done massive amounts of reading)
And I have my own. I buy managers.

(I do try to diversify by stock/bond, size, style, etc., but I'd rather be a little out of balance than buy an unknown manager or a manager I don't like.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Herman Munster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. do your managers add value to your investments?
Have you compared your returns with managers with what an equivalent portfolio in index funds would have performed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I think so
When you look at the little charts on Morningstar, they are on it or above it. And I don't buy funds that charge a load or high fees. I only considered a load fund once, and it closed just as I was holding my breath and getting ready to do it. (And I'm very sorry I didn't get it, as I am for a couple of no-load funds that closed just as I was getting my nerve up.)

I must admit I mostly look for funds that beat the index soundly in *bad* times, preferably losing no money at all. (The recent bad time makes it easy to check....) Also I know I have too much in bonds (of the kind that don't pay much--I have one bond fund that looks like a stock fund, return-wise), which I'm working my way up to doing something about.

I'm sure I'm not doing as well as ideally possible, but I only got out of CDs recently (for my IRAs), I don't like our national debt and who is holding it, and I am very chicken by nature. I just finally got tired enough of what the CDs were paying. And I sleep quite well at night and feel no need to follow my porfolio on a constant basis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bogle is one of the Good Guys
The company he started, The Vanguard Group, is a very tight ship, and operates on tight margins.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. My 401K is invested in Vanguard, mostly in their index funds
+18% this year. Yay!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Rest assured their employees are not highly paid!
A lot of my friends work there. The company is fairly generous in terms of basic benefits, but no one is getting rich -- Mr. Bogle used to pinch pennies until he screamed, and his successors are not lightening up any!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC