About Edward's pseudo-announcement - Do we eat our own?

[XOKCowboy]

Yesterday I posted on GD what I thought was the first notice of Edward's leaked "announcement". Turns out it'd been posted over an hour earlier on LBN but my thread, the LBN thread, the supported the war more than Bush thread and other spinoff threads have generated over 500 comments in just a little over a day.

Some would look at all of the discussion as in-fighting, bickering and other childish terms. I find it very constructive. When he announced yesterday I was an unabashed supporter. I've seen some things posted since that make me want some more information before I give my complete support. Is that a bad thing?

What's ironic is that Edward's hasn't even officially announced yet but just the rumor of his "candidacy" caused a big stir here.

[NMDemDist2]

1. not if he keeps out polling McCain

:evilgrin:

[still_one]

4. and what if it is Rudy instead of mccain?

[NMDemDist2]

5. have we seen polls on that match up? n/t

[still_one]

26. I haven't. Americans are extremely superfical. Gulianni has been made into something he doesn't

deserve by the MSM, and Americans are stupid to believe it.

[america_in_08]

2. It hasn't change me at all.

However, everyone should go to OneAmericaCommittee, there is information, speeches issues, podcast, and blog.

http://www.oneamericacommittee.com

and

http://blog.oneamericacommittee.com/

[Lex]

7. Thanks for the info.

More information is good.

[still_one]

3. I have a problem voting for someone for president who voted for the IWR

This is more than about just going into a war based on a lie, it is about giving powers to the president THAT OUR CONSTITUTION NEVER INTENDED

The midterm elections to a large part were about Iraq. How can anyone justify that vote? The vote was pure cowardice. No one in the government was misled, they knew Iraq was know threat.

Feingold, Byrd, Obamma, Boxer, Kucinich, and many more voted against it, because THEY knew it was a threat to our republic

Incidently, it is better to bring such things in the open now where they can be debated, instead of ignoring them

As far as the polls are concerned, they are meaningless this far ahead of an election

[Lex]

8. So were you reluctant to vote for Kerry in 04?

He voted for the IWR, correct?

[Union Thug]

13. Jumping in... I voted for Kerry, but held my nose...

He was much better than Bush, obviously, but the IWR thing continues to blow me away and has left me questioning my allegience to the democratic party ever since. So, if JE was the nominee, I would vote for him, but it would not be without a degree of disappointment in our party's devotion to expedience over integrity.

[Lex]

15. Thanks. It's confusing because I was here on DU

during the 2004 Prez race and pretty much everyone was gung-ho for Kerry, pulling like CRAZY for him to win, but now it seems that Edwards is automatically out of contention for some because of his IWR vote, which was the same as Kerry's.

Seems illogical.

[GreenArrow]

19. everybody was pulling for Kerry

largely due to the ABB (Anybody but Bush) phenomenon, and though he did have his strong supporters, a lot of us on here were pretty lukewarm about him, myself doubly so when he chose Edwards as his running mate.

ABB was my whole rationale for voting, the desire to see the Neo-con dream shattered and repudiated by the voting public. I believed that it was critical for this country to do so, so I voted for Kerry, not because I thought Kerry was a particularly great candidate, and in spite of Edwards' presence on the ticket, and in spite of their mutual aye votes on IWR, which each of them defended rigorously, never mind that it was a particularly craven, cynical and loathsome vote. Kerry is out of it this year, Bush will be gone, and the IWR vote remains an issue.

This time around, I'm not voting for anyone who voted for and supported this unnecessary horseshit war in Iraq. In the case of Edwards, his clearly political and patently fake "apology" (which doesn't manage to apolgize for anything) is nearly as offensive as his original vote.

[Lex]

20. So if Edwards get the nomination then

you'll be voting Green (just looking at your screen name and guessing).

[GreenArrow]

21. Symbolically, green has many meanings, as does arrow

and I wasn't especially considering the Green Party when choosing my user name; I'm not much into labels, group identity etc. But, at this point in time I have a lot more in common with the Green Party Platform than the Democratic one, and I believe the Democratic Party would benefit by doing some creative issue stealing, though I have little hope that it will. Its failure to do so may say more about the entrenched political mechanisms and the general character of this country than anything else.

So, no, if Edwards or Hillary or Biden, or whomever, gets the nomination, I won't vote for them. I don't know who'll vote for, but it will be someone who offers a new approach to both foreign and domestic policies. What we have in both spheres doesn't work any more. We're stuck in a rut. The country has hard lessons to learn and seems hell bent on learning them the hard way.

[still_one]

24. After 6 years, and tens of thousands of dead, the Democrats who voted for the IWR should be ashamed

especially when there are enough Democrats who were against from the beginning, and they were from all sides, i.e. lean left, lean right, and moderate

I don't care if Edwards came out and said his vote was a mistake, tell that to the dead

If the Democrats nominate someone who voted for the IWR it should bother people

This is NOT a small error in judgement, and someone should NOT be rewarded for it

[still_one]

23. I voted for him, and yes I was reluctant

but obviously, going against the person who started the war, made the decision easy

However, things are different, bush is over.

In the end if it comes down to between mccain and edwards, edwards would get my vote, but I wouldn't be proud of it. It was an act of cowardice for ANYONE to vote for the IWR in Congress

[XOKCowboy]

9. Wait a second. According to Wikipedia Obama wasn't sworn in to the Senate till '05

How did he vote against the IWR?

Anyway.. Here is John Edward's "I Was Wrong" letter (via DailyKos).

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/13/104352/44

Dear Friend,

I was wrong.

I wrote these words about my vote to authorize the Iraq war in a Washington Post op-ed piece and I want to share my views with you as well.

Almost three years ago, we went into Iraq to remove what we were told -- and many of us believed and argued -- was a threat to America. But in fact we now know that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction when our forces invaded Iraq in 2003. The intelligence was deeply flawed and, in some cases, manipulated to fit a political agenda.

It was a mistake to vote for this war in 2002. I take responsibility for that mistake. It has been hard to say these words because those who didn't make a mistake -- the men and women of our armed forces and their families -- have performed heroically and paid a very dear price. It is not right, just or fair that we made a mistake, but they pay for that mistake.

You mentioned a few people who admittedly did vote against the IWR. Many, many more voted for it including our last presidential candidate. At the time, voting against it was viewed by a large majority of the American people as very close to treason. Heck even some Republicans are now coming out and saying they were manipulated and are apologizing for their support of the war. Why can't we accept that same apology from our candidates?

[still_one]

25. tell that to the dead

If I made a mistake in my job due to my programming, and it invovled the death of someone, I would be fired in a snap of a finger

[cali]

27. The myth that only a few voted against the Iraq War Resolution

More dems in the House voted against it than for it. In the Senate it was just about evenly split- 22 against it.

That someone voted for it, won't stop me from vothing for them. It didn't last time with Kerry, but the truth is that many dems did have the foresight to vote against it.

[pinto]

6. My take is he'd be a good addition to the field. I welcome it, if that's his choice.

(aside) Still think our Democratic legislative agenda is more important than the 2008 race at this point in our political resurgence. :thumbsup:

[XOKCowboy]

11. I couldn't agree with you more...

Once January gets here and we're sworn in as the majority, I'm sure hoping that the '08 races become a side note in the news.

Makes for a good weekend's discussion though.

[pinto]

17. Agree. I'm just itching for some legislative action, truth be told.

[XOKCowboy]

18. "Mr. Cheney do you solemnly swear..."

I can't wait to hear those words! :)

[frustrated_lefty]

10. I like Edwards, although he still seems a little green

to be running for the job. I'd be comfortable supporting him, if he ends up with the nomination.

To your question, though, yeah, we tend to eat our own. I'm not sure that testing them by fire is suck a bad thing, though.

[XOKCowboy]

12. I'd be more afraid if we just did the Freeper thing..

and blindly follow whomever Our Leaders choose, no matter what.

*shudder*

[Pithy Cherub]

14. You are smart.

Look before you leap - that's more than Edwards did before voting for such a national security disaster. Rather than looking at a candidate first, what issues are motivating you to get engaged would be the better perspective. If national security is a top priority for you then review records. If judgment and clarity of vision is important see how they have handled the most controversial and difficult decisions during the time. If being a leader is important see how often they have gone aginst the tide and displayed Honor. If you do that first you will come up with a candidate you can respect the morning after you vote.

An Aye on IWR is a total dealbreaker for me but not for others which is their right.

[XOKCowboy]

16. This also could be why Senators/Reps haven't been elected President..

Too much public record to dog them. Clinton, Bush43, Carter all governors, Bush41 rode in on Reagan's coattails with a short, shady congressional record.

Somehow that takes out some of the best and brightest it seems to me. All we knew about Clinton really when we elected him was his personal style and charisma in the end. He had no real national record.

[William769]

22. To answer you question, " Do we eat our own?"

Look whats been done to Hillary Clinton. Nuff said.