Jews far more likely to be victims of faith hatred than Muslims

[cali]

That's the headline in an article in yesterday's Telegraph. I was surprised by the figures. England has only recently started tracking these kinds of hate crimes. Here's a bit from the article:


By Tom Harper and Ben Leapman, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:28am GMT 17/12/2006

Jewish people are four times more likely to be attacked because of their religion than Muslims, according to figures compiled by the police.

One in 400 Jews compared to one in 1,700 Muslims are likely to be victims of "faith hate" attacks every year. The figure is based on data collected over three months in police areas accounting for half the Muslim and Jewish populations of England and Wales. The crimes range from assault and verbal abuse to criminal damage at places of worship.

Police forces started recording the religion of faith-hate crime victims only this year. They did so on the instruction of the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), which wanted a clear picture of alleged community tensions around the country, following reports of Muslims being attacked after September 11 and the July 7 London bombings last year.

<snip>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/17/nislam117.xml

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Swede]

4. Really,I never saw any of the "hoaxes".

I bet blacks do it too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Like Abner Louima, Rodney King And Amadou Diallo

SARCASM

[Swede]

14. Those guys sound like they are black AND jewish.

I think a pattern has been spotted.

[malaise]

52. Thanks for this because

no one ever asks Afro-people about their religion before we're victimized.

[walldude]

8. You wanna source this or are you just trying to start

a flame war? You wanna post something that inflammatory then I suggest you support it with sources.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. There's A Site That Promotes That Argument

But we aren't allowed to link it here...

[walldude]

15. So I'm supposed to believe a site that is so credible

that DU won't even allow links to it? Please I'm dying to see all the Jews running around faking anti-sematism. :eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. Here's The Name

It's called judicial-inc with a biz after it...

It's funny in a sad kind of way.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. Ewwww...that site is horrific!

But, I do agree, there are some stories there that are so far out there they are funny, in the sad way.

[walldude]

30. Well I went to their page

what a shock, an anti-semetic website. The first story I saw was "Carter is mad and exposing the Zionist control of the University system" Yeah these guys can be trusted.

[WernhamHogg]

33. Wow

That is a *REAL* site and NOT satire?!?!?!

:scared:

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

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[etherealtruth]

11. What????

News junkie that I am, I have somehow missed all of these hoax stories.

By the way one or two incidents are merely anecdotes ... there are crazies in every group.

[gollygee]

12. Do you have examples of this?

I've never heard of it and if you're going to say something that inflammatory you should have some very specific examples with links.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

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[KitchenWitch]

43. Proof? Link?

:eyes:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. This doesn't surprise me

The Jews have been targets of hatred and bias in England for generations-they weren't even allowed in the country at one time. So hatred of them may go deeper in some circles than the hatred of Muslims, who have been in the UK for a shorter period of time. I find it sad that anyone has to hate someone for their faith, though.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. 44% of Americans believe in curtailing civil rights for muslims.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Dec04/Muslim.Poll.bpf.html

What a dumb pissing contest.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I Agree And Disgaree

But fucking with anybody just because they are different is wrong...

[Bill McBlueState]

17. this is pretty astounding

What people don't realize is that, as soon as the government restricts the rights of Muslims, it becomes the responsibility of everyone who's not a Muslim to prove that to the government.

I don't think people really want the government snooping around in their private lives to figure out what religions they do or don't subscribe to.

[walldude]

20. People never learn do they....

What a bunch of cowards or nation has become.

[cali]

24. You're right. It's not a pissing contest and that's

why I've posted threads condemning anti-Muslim bigotry. I'm sure you condemn anti-semitic hate crimes, right?

[queenbdem87]

5. OK in the UK,,,,but what about in Israel/Palestine?

Where the Israeli's use their weaponized "gifts" against the native arab populations?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. We're Talking About Picking On Jews Because They're Jews

We're not talking about the inhumanities two sides are inflicting upon one another in a land dispute.

[cali]

16. You do realize, don't you that British Jews are British and

not Israeli? What do they have to do with injustices perpetrated by Israel against Palestinians? Have you any idea what you sound like?

[QuestionAll...]

7. not according to what I see on CNN... etc.

but I haven't read the whole article so I may be way off the mark here, but just thinking that CNN is part of jewish hatred more than muslim hatred makes me laugh, in a deep down sad way.

[cali]

18. Huh? Thjs is an article in the Telegraph

a Brit newspaper about hate crime statistics in England.

[QuestionAll...]

22. I see. but

I still say home grown CNN and other massive lieing mass media are part of a much larger hate crime more so against muslims than against the jewish.

[cali]

25. Well, that CNN

allows that hateful bigot Glenn Beck to spew, is certainly a bad thing, but again that's hardly germane to the article.

[QuestionAll...]

46. glen beck would not have a job right now

if what he said:
'prove to me you're not a terrorist' wasn't toward a muslim.

[cali]

49. He's a pig, no doubt about it

and that's probably true. It doesn't however, diminish the very real anti-semitism that's extant, and is in evidence right here on this thread.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. England has a long history of antisemitism ...

however i dont think these stats are true of america

[Behind the Aegis]

26. Actually...they are similar.

FBI crime stats for the US paint a very similar picture here in the states.

[Lurking Dem]

28. the 2005 stats

showed that 68% of religious based hate crimes were against Jews in the U.S.

But I would wonder how many incidents against Muslims were counted as "race based" rather than "religion based".

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[etherealtruth]

35. Check in with the ...

Southern Poverty Law Center for stats and accurate info for the U.S.

A few instances of something occurring is merely anecdotal ... As I stated upthread, there are crazies in every group ... which proves nothing.

[Lurking Dem]

36. Your first link is a hate site.

Bravo.

[etherealtruth]

38. I'm glad I didn't click on his links

argh:puke:

[KitchenWitch]

51. I will not click on "tinyURL" links

I would rather some transparency...

[Behind the Aegis]

37. Get real!

The first link is a right-wing fundamentalist site. The story also takes place in the US. The second link relays a story from France. The third and fourth are American and the same story, and had you bothered to read the entire 4th link, you would have seen that false reports are hardly an issue with Jews.

And, "Stop handling these people with kid gloves." These people? Care to explain, that statement?!

[Lurking Dem]

39. Haven't we been told

we're seeing things that aren't there because we're overly sensitive? Or something. :sarcasm:

[Behind the Aegis]

Isn't it interesting...

...this is the same shit African-Americans hear from the "other" side when they dare to speak out against racism. What a sad statement about our world.

[Name removed]

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[Dorian Gray]

41. Who are "these people" of which you speak?

The individuals who have perpetrated hoaxes or the Jewish race as a whole. The topic was about anti-semitism and the Jewish population, not particular individuals. You are holding up particular individuals as examples to discount this story, so I am unsure whether you are referring to "these people" as those individuals or the entire Semite population.

[walldude]

44. Stop handling "these people"

Actually while I don't formally practice any religion, I would be one of "these people". So if you want to "stop handling me with kid gloves" then quit with the pathetic attempts at anti-sematism. Out of the four links you posted 2 were the same story and 1 is a hate site. So basically if the hate site is true then you have 3 people on the entire planet who "faked" a hate crime. Wow! Impressive. Those Zionists are fooling us all glad you are here to put a stop to their nefarious plot. :eyes:

Oh and by the way, I am not a person "just like you" and I am wholly grateful for that.

[Marie26]

47. Take the bigotry & hate sites elsewhere.

Maybe Stormfront will be more interested?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

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[Missy M]

32. The number of hate crimes against both are almost the same..

so they are going by population statistics of Muslims and Jews. The data doesn't tell who committed the crimes based on faith but the one incident they write about was an attack by Pakistanis, many who are Muslims, against the Jews. I wonder if the larger Muslim population, versus Jews in England, is likely to be the cause of these hate crimes. I hate to think this still goes on and wonder if it will ever end, no matter what country it is.

[TahitiNut]

40. Have they counted the 650,000 Iraqi Muslims killed in the hate crime by Cheney/Bush?

:eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

42. Considering they aren't in Britain and B/C aren't British, I doubt it.

[cali]

45. Did you miss

that this is an article about hate crimes in England, not war crimes in Iraq?

Talk about straw men.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. As surely as they counted the 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust, mr. off-the-subject man! nt

[QuestionAll...]

59. you can't talk about That! it's not in the original OP headline!

off topic! not related!
no way more muslims are dieing right now than jewish people.
and even if they are you are a bad man for even wishing that more jews were dead than muslims just to Make You Point. would it make you happier if 600,000 israelis or jewish people were dead? would it, huh huh,would it? what's the matter with you you bigot!


:sarcasm:
:(

[cali]

64. Stupid post.

Truly moronic. A war crime is not the same thing as a hate crime, except in the minds of some very confused people.

[QuestionAll...]

66. so now I'm a confused moronic bigot.

because I really don't know how much less it hurts for being killed because of hate crimes, or being killed because of war crimes. Which one is better?

[Lurking Dem]

67. You're comparing disparate things.

That they are both vile is not in dispute by anyone on this thread. But the subject is hate crimes.

It's like trying to say "waaaa who cares about all those rape victims look at how many got murdered" in a thread about incidence of rape.

[QuestionAll...]

72. I guess I'm pretty thick then,

because it seems someone sure hates those Iraqis a lot.

[cali]

68. You know damned well I did NOT call you a bigot.

I didn't even call you moronic. I stated that your post was moronic. And to answer your question, war crimes and hate crimes are simply not comparable.

So although, you may well not be a bigot- I've seen no evidence that you are, you did just tell a whopper of a lie.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. Apparently that doesn't count as a hate crime.

It's a war crime not a hate crime, so stop disparaging our troops!

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

95. Yep. I guess war is about 'love,' not hate.

And Britain isn't participating in the occupation of Iraq, either. Funny that. I wonder what the 'Ethnic Exchange Rate' on lives is these days. (It seems to be at least 200::1 American v. Iraqi. What is it for Jew v. Muslim? What are the tallies of Jews and Muslims killed by violence worldwide in the last 6 years??) I just love it when a thread starts off citing specious comparisons between crimes against one ethnicity vs. another and then the OP tries to dismiss other comparisons! Unfeakingreal.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

96. Agreed. With everything you've said.

Oh, btw. :thumbsup: to you.

[cali]

97. Far more Muslims than Jews

have been killed in the last few years than Jews. Most of them in Iraq due to the American invasion, and in Darfur due to other Muslims.

But yes, what's specious is not recognizing that hate crimes are a discrete crime, wholly different from war crimes such as the invasion of Iraq.

Yeah, like I really said war is about love. Make stuff up much?

[TahitiNut]

101. Again, you miss the point entirely.

For the record, I eschew ANY crime of tribalism ... whether it be called 'war' or 'hate' or anything else. I do not subscribe to the divisions of humanity that lead us to buy into the very CONSTRUCT of bigotry. I do NOT view a Jew or a Muslim or even a Wiccan as other than a human being, every bit as related to me as any other human being!

What I've repeatedly been posting is a sardonic lampoon regarding the divisive nature of making COMPARISONS based on 'tribalism' ... which insidiously buys into the very corruption which leads to what you (narrowly) call 'hate crimes'!!

When human beings kill human beings in an atrocity like the holocaust, I regard it as corrupt and evil to think myself less related to one 'side' than another. I DO NOT personally accept the notion that I bear any less 'victimhood' than my Jewish neighbors or any less 'guilt' than my German neighbors due to my personal relationship to either the perpetrators or the victims of that atrocity.

As soon as we surrender to the seductive corruption that there's something of higher importance than the Human Family ... like 'tribes' or nations or religions or whatever ... we start down the path of seeing 'other' as 'enemy' ... we start thinking that our very choice of religion makes us somehow ENTITLED to a greater or lesser status as victim.


No ... far from denying that antisemitism exists and it's pervasive, I assert that anti-otherism exists and is, by far, the most fundamental corruption in our human family. There are NO SPECIAL relationships to VICTIMS ... we are ALL equally related to the victims. (We are all equally related to the perpetrators, as well.)

As a human being, I share both the "guilt by association" and "victimhood by association" every bit as much as another human being.



But some people are too fucking clue-immune to get it!! Some people are too fucking busy running around and smearing others with the judgmental brush of "evil-doer" to stop and think! God save us all from those who can only see in black and white - "against us or for us"!!

[walldude]

53. Well Cali, this little excercise in spot the bigot

has prompted me to vote to put this on the greatest page. What started out as a seemingly innocent post has sure got a rise out of the closet anti-semites. Nicely done. :toast:

[cali]

54. You know, that wasn't my intent

though I knew they'd show up. My intent really, was to demonstrate that anti-semitism is not dead. It's every bit as pernicious as any other form of bigotry, and it's sad as hell that there are people who don't get that, and even sadder that there are bigots who show up on a thread like this one. I also note that most of people who are condemning the bigotry here on this thread are self-identified as Jewish.

[walldude]

63. I know, and you'd think we'd be used to this by now

since I don't really practice any religion I'm not usually bothered by this kind of thing but for some reason, it got to me here. Maybe it's the casualness or the fact that certain posters seem to not even know they are disparaging an entire race for the actions of 2 people. I'll be thinking of them tonight when my wife reads this:

Bo-ruch A-toh Ado-noi E-lo-hei-nu Me-lech Ho-olom A-sher Ki-de-sho-nu Be-mitz-vo-sov Ve-tzi-vo-nu Le-had-lik Ner Cha-nu-kah.

[cali]

65. I take it that's

a Chanukah prayer. Let me take the opportunity to wish you a happy Chanukah! I'm actually not Jewish. I was raised a very wishy washy Christian- we went to church approximately twice a year, if that.

[walldude]

70. Yup, I'm only Jewish by blood, my wife is the "real" Jew in our house

I just go along for the ride... Now if they ever come up with a religion that worships music, I'd be in church or temple every week... hehe

[ProfessorGAC]

110. You Wouldn't Need A Temple For That!

Just a good audio system. Then, your living room becomes the temple! Ya know; that "worship music" thing is a really good idea!
The Professor

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Yeah, I saw that coming the minute I read the thread title.

Who's got the popcorn? :popcorn:

[Cameron27]

74. Probably good to post innocent threads like this every

few months to flush the critters out. Where's the trash?

[dogday]

55. I have been having the discussion that all

bigotry in any form toward any religion or ethnicity is wrong.. ALL OF IT

[cali]

58. You are so right.

And there have been many comments on this thread that point that out.

[dogday]

60. I was put in my place the other

day and have not forgotten it... I feel really bad now about what I said and I don't want to make the same mistake again...

[cali]

61. Anyone can make a mistake

It takes a certain amount of wisdom and maturity to admit it, and learn from it. And a generosity of spirit.

[dogday]

62. Thanks, let us hope that others can learn

as well... :hi:

[rockymountaindem]

77. Well, whatever it was, if you learned something and really apologize

then don't feel bad anymore :hi:

[etherealtruth]

80. That is the truth

Who are the victims of the most hate crimes ... I'm sure this is a "contest" NO ONE wants to win!

[treestar]

69. Right now, in the US, the Muslims are in the greatest danger

And perhaps across the world.

Recently, relatively, there has been genocide in Indonesia and in Africa, though, so even the Muslims aren't at worst risk.

But today, it's the hatred of Muslims that needs monitoring. If we mean never again, we mean anybody and watching out for any group seeming to come into that type of danger. And we've seen people argue the Muslims should have fewer rights, etc. Even if they're freepers, they're apparently more numerous than the KKK, even. (And probably include the KKK).

[Behind the Aegis]

71. Can you back that up?

There is all types of rhetoric leveled against a variety of people. Islamaphobia surged a few years ago, but has been declining. It doesn't mean we should be vigilant against it and report it when it rears its ugly head.

As for your statement, "Recently, relatively, there has been genocide in Indonesia and in Africa, though, so even the Muslims aren't at worst risk." Can you explain that?

[cali]

73. You don't seem to be aware of the fact

that the victims in Darfur are chiefly Muslims. And the genocide being perpetrated there is by Muslims.

Yes, the we need to be aware of the danger towards Muslims, and sensitive too it. As the thread makes only too clear, and as the facts make obvious, we also have to be aware that anti-semitism is not dead, and is also a danger. Can you see that at all?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. Gee, I wonder why...

Speaking of anti-semitic religious leaders...

"If I had to baptise a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words 'I baptise thee in the name of Abraham.'" (Martin Luther, in his book, "The Jews and Their Lies",1543)

"Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them." (Martin Luther, in his book, "The Jews and Their Lies",1543)

"He who hears this name from a Jew must inform the authorities, or else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away." "If I had power over the Jews, as our princes and cities have, I would deal severely with their lying mouth." (Martin Luther, in his book, "The Jews and Their Lies",1543)

"If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country." (Martin Luther, in his book, "The Jews and Their Lies",1543)

"What shall we Christians do now with this depraved and damned people of the Jews? ... I will give my faithful advice: First, that one should set fire to their synagogues. . . . Then that one should also break down and destroy their houses. . . . That one should drive them out the country." (Martin Luther, in his book, "The Jews and Their Lies",1543)

"We are at fault for not slaying them ." (Martin Luther)

"...but then eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!" Martin Luther, in his book, "The Jews and Their Lies",1543)

"What shall we do with...the Jews?... I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings...are to be taken from them... I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews... I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach on pain of loss of life and limb... set fire to their synagogues or schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them... their homes also should be razed and destroyed." (Martin Luther)

[TahitiNut]

76. Lutherans who drive Ford products - obviously anti-semitic

"The international financiers are behind all war. They are what is called the International Jew -- German Jews, French Jews, English Jews, American Jews. I believe that in all these countries except our own the Jewish financier is supreme... Here, the Jew is a threat." - Henry Ford, 1920

:puke:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. Even more recent quotes from our "spiritual leaders" and politicians.

"Who will the Antichrist be? I don't know. Nobody else knows. Is he alive and here today? Probably... Of course, he'll be Jewish. Of course, he'll pretend to be Christ." (Rev. Jerry Falwell, January 29th, 1999 at a conference on evangelism at Kingsport, Tenn.)

"Communism was the brain-child of German-Jewish intellectuals."( Pat Robertson, in The New World Order, (1991), p.17)
Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition has spoken of Jews being "spiritually blind" and "spiritually deaf." (St. Petersburg Times,June 26, 1994)

The Rev. Billy McCormack, the Christian Coalition's Louisiana director and former member of that state's Republican Party Central Committee, refused to repudiate former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke during his campaign for governor and the U.S. Senate, saying Duke was not as much a threat as the Jews in the ACLU. (The Religious Right: The Assault of Tolerance & Pluralism in America, produced by the Anti-Defamation League(ADL) report )

Bailey Smith, a founding father of the movement, once told 15,000 people at a Religious Roundtable briefing in Dallas, "With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." (St. Petersburg Times, June 26, 1994)

[QuestionAll...]

83. do you have links

to those hate sites?
I thot hate sites weren't allowed here.

confused!

[Marie26]

84. Yeah, pretty confused.

What on earth are you talking about?

[shance]

98. Please tell that to the million Iraqi Muslims who have been murdered.

by US Sanctions and this genocidal war.

For the record, I am not religious and I am of neither affiliation.

The level of intentional divisiveness in your thread is both obvious and disturbing in its prejudice and racist tone in and of itself.

[rockymountaindem]

78. How did I know this was going to be a flamewar?

:eyes:

[Lurking Dem]

81. Remember the thread about antisemitic graffiti

on Jewish shops in Italy? And the number of DUers said it was valid protest against Israeli state policy?

THAT's how you knew.

[rockymountaindem]

82. Oh yeah

I guess the Jews=Israel=Jews="the JOOZ" crowd thinks we deserve whatever we get. Fortunately they're a small minority.

[dorkulon]

85. This isn't a contest.

Can we just agree that religious persecution is wrong in all forms?

[cali]

86. Of course, and I've said that repeatedly

I've also posted threads about hate directed at Muslims. What's wrong with posting an article about bigotry, whoever it's directed at?

Sad that you would think this is posted as a form of competition. It was posted as a reminder that anti-semitism still exists.

[QuestionAll...]

88. good thing you reminded me, otherwise

I would have plumb forgotten all about anti-semitism!

If I don't read something about it 4 times a week or so, I forget it even exists!
:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

90. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

89. "a reminder that anti-semitism still exists"? Really?

In several of your posts in this thread, you've repeated the assertion that your motive is to show "that anti-semitism still exists." You've also proclaimed that posts by others are straw men.

So, I have one question: Who on DU thinks that antisemitism doesn't still exist??

Please point to posts on DU where people have said that. I'd like to know, specifically, just what basis you have for thinking that any, let alone many, DUers think that antisemitism no longer exists and isn't one of many serious issues in this world.

It seems to me that the repeated "statement of purpose" you've given is a slander of this community. I've been a DUer for nearly 5 years and have yet to see anyone, even in I/P, claim that antisemitism doesn't exist.

With all due respect, this sounds suspiciously like a witch-hunt to me.

[cali]

91. No.

I'm not going to go and root around, trying to dig up post for you. In any case, such posts would likely have been deleted. I have seen posts, quite a few of them, that minimized anti-semitism, saying it isn't much of a problem anymore. That's what I was addressing by posting this.

I don't care terribly what you want or don't want. It's not up to you to dictate what I post here; it's up to the administration. You have a problem with this thread, that's too bad.

As for a witch hunt, if someone posted a thread about anti-Muslim hate, would you call it a witch hunt, because I just did that 2 weeks ago, and I didn't see anyone making this kind of bizarre accusation. And if people come onto a thread, and post BLATANTLY anti-semitic shit and link to hate sites, and then suffer some kind of consequenc, that's there tough luck. Gee, maybe they should have exercised some fucking self-restraint and not given way to their prejudices.

You seem far more disturbed that I posted this thread than that it attracted some really ugly posts.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QuestionAll...]

93. one more thing, cali.

your last line here:

""You seem far more disturbed that I posted this thread than that it attracted some really ugly posts. ""

isn't that what you're after, to attract posts that you consider ugly?
Actually, that's what it's looking like to me more and more.
You wait with your judgement book, knowing that this is a super sensitive subject and misundertstandings so easily occur, and you wait to pounce.

I don't want to be part of this little experiment of yours, as I said.

bye. for sure.

[Lurking Dem]

99. So if anyone post anything

about antisemitism it is because we wish to attract ugly posts? To root out the questionable among us?

We can't just fucking want to talk about something ugly that we might, with a little bit of education and perseverance do something about?

[QuestionAll...]

102. there are certain tones to conversations

was a thread here the other day. (maybe the david duke interview by wolfie, not sure, think that was the one)
but it had the same feeling as this one does to me.

people were lined up with froth and locked and loaded spittle on their mouths and keyboards. lying in wait. Wolfie was cheered on as some good guy. (oiy!) o my god that's the first I heard of that here ever. Wolf blitzer, the piece of lieing godamn shit that has less credibility than even a david duke, imho, has more influence on life and death with his lies and distortions than a david duke could ever dream of. well, wolfie is suddenly a 'great guy'. sure.

but the saddest part was someone being misunderstood on that quote about the enemy of my enemy being my friend. the general reaction went something like this: WTF do you mean!!? are you saying... bla bla bla... are you a holocaust denier???!!!! you like david duke? why, you lousy bigot!!!

it was pathetic.

nothing educational or positive or enlightning or leading to less misunderstanding.

it was pathetic.

and (imho) it was set up to be just so.

[cali]

103. Less credibility than David Duke?

I saw little Wolfie cheering on the thread you bring up. As for his having influence, I'd dispute that. How many people even watch him? But even if he was viewed more widely, to state that David Duke has more credibility than he does, is just absurd. Prove, through his words, that Wolf Blizer is in the same category as David Duke. Saying that he once worked for AIPAC briefly many years ago, doesn't prove that he's in the same league as Duke. To do that, you'll need some quotes.

As for the jumping on the person who made the comment about the enemy of my enemy, I agree with you that people made a rush to judgement. I did not. I knew what the poster meant, and he was attacked unfairly.

But in the end whether its a set up or not, if people make bigoted remarks, they're responsible for what issues from their keyboards.

[Swede]

104. Cali,you are,as always even handed.

During the war in Lebanon I saw this from you again and again. That people are jumping on you,tells me a lot about them.

[Balbus]

106. A David Duke fan, eh?

Or at least he's someone you find worth sticking up for, I guess. Interesting the things one finds out about people in a heated conversation. Who else do you find admirable?

[QuestionAll...]

111. here we go...

again.
now i'm a david duke 'fan'.

offercrissakes.

[Marie26]

107. Less creditability than David Duke?

That's quite an accomplishment. This is an ugly, ugly thread. And I can't believe that people are turning around and blaming the OP for the ugliness of others. I suppose nobody should ever post a thread about anti-semitism, for fear it might reveal anti-semitism! :crazy:

[geek tragedy]

109. Two points:

1) Just about everyone here would be happy if every single anti-semite, closeted or otherwise, would stop posting here and never come back. We'd like it if those posts never appeared. I'm sure you agree.

2) Site admins found those posts to be not only ugly, but completely unacceptable. This isn't a matter of people saying things that Cali "finds ugly." It's about cockroaches emerging from the woodwork.

[dorkulon]

105. I'm talking to the whole thread here, not just you.

It seems a ridiculous thing to bicker about who has it worse. And before you jump down my throat, the phrasing of your OP -- "far more likely" -- implies a twisted form of oneupmanship.

[Lurking Dem]

108. This isn't a game anyone wants to win.

The only way discussing the prevalence of something so horrid could be construed as a "form of oneupmanship" is if you think Jews actually use suffering in a conscious bid for superiority.

When discussing diabetes prevalence and incidence no one screams that diabetics are trying to oneup AIDS patients, for instance.