So Venezuela's our enemy now, or is it just Hugo Chavez?

[samhsarah]

In either case, I apparently missed this. But according to some posts that I read last night in response to Cindy Sheehan getting arrested, some people here would have felt sympathy or would have supported her had she not talked to Hugo Chavez. In each instance, I asked how and when Venezuela or it's leader became our enemy. I still have yet to receive an answer. So is Hugo Chavez an enemy of the United States? Last I heard, he wasn't too fond of Dubya, but then again neither is anybody here (at DU). So if someone is reported to have spoken to one of us, and then happens to get arrested for wearing a t-shirt a few weeks later, did they get what they deserved, too?

[lectrobyte]

1. Welcome to peak oil realpolitiks. Anyone with oil is our enemy.

The spice must flow.

[BushOut06]

3. Not true - anyone with oil who doesn't adhere to our philosophy is

Venezuela has had oil for quite a long time - but it wasn't until they went out and ELECTED someone who opposes BushCo that they became the enemy.

[lectrobyte]

12. Correct. I should have been a bit more specific -- I'd say

anyone with oil who does not submit to our control etc.

[samhsarah]

4. *chirp*, *chirp*

and still none of them have an answer. Well it sounds like you might be onto something there, lectrobyte.

[sasha031]

2. if people are rapping Chavez here

they are rapping their own self interest. I think we would be fortunate to have a Chavez. Either they are getting their info from the idiot box, I would suggest DU's or who ever start doing some reading and research.

[lectrobyte]

15. Yes. There's a lot of spin out there in the "liberal media" that

frames him as an evil dictator -- I was flipping past CNN the other and the news heads were clucking over some remark he'd made about poverty or something as if he'd just sh!t in church. We would be indeed fortunate to have any gov't that seems to care about the averge people as much as he does.

[wtbymark]

5. Hugo is an enemy of shrub

we already tried to assassinate him, and he likes the populous - giving our poor cheap oil over chimpy's head
Hugo - for the people
shrubydickhead - people? can you say cake?

[bullimiami]

6. its not just the oil. its any populist leader left of mussolini.

bush and his ilk are capitalist / fascist / totalitarians at the heart of it. Chavez is an athema to them. They hate that the lower classes chose him. They hate that he isnt a player in the rich mans political game.

They made Haiti pay in blood.

[Ally McLesbian]

7. I didn't like Chavez at first...

... but I see what he's doing as a courageous stand against W.

I am seriously considering spending my vacation dollars in Venezuela just for him, instead of John Howard's Australia, Tony Blair's UK, or Junichiro Koizumi's Japan.

[txindy]

8. I kept tripping over those posts, too.

Odd, wasn't it? His offer to provide oil to poor Americans was reprehensible somehow, it seems. And Cindy's speaking with him put her beyond the pale, reportedly. :shrug: Very, very strange.

[samhsarah]

9. Strange, indeed.

:eyes:

[starroute]

10. Dems are still traumatized by McCarthyism

The Republicans have been playing the guilt-by-association game for 60 years, and the Dems fall for it every time. If anybody who calls themself a Democrat can be found saying a good word about Cindy Sheehan -- who hangs out with that notorious troublemaker Hugo Chavez -- who is a buddy of Fidel Castro -- well, just watch out. Because come the next election, the Republicans will paint the Democrats as the party of Cindy Sheehan and Michael Moore and Osama bin Laden and the American people will be just dumb enough to believe them.

Yeah, whatever.

[samhsarah]

16. good point.

but it's still no excuse. as long as we continue to let these people frame who is our enemy and people, even people here at DU are willing to buy into it our of fear, ignorance, whatever, there is no end to how many wars they can start in order to further their agendas.

[personman]

11. Nationalists among us?

That sounds like some sort of nationalist reasoning, "It's ok if she hate bush, but if she hates Bush and likes Chavez, that's anti-american".

-personman

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." - Albert Einstein

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!" - Albert Einstein

"Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception." - George Orwell

"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." - George Orwell

[samhsarah]

14. great post, personman

thanks for the quotes. pretty scary stuff.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. It feels as if there are "slam Chavez" operatives on this board

What has he done that is so terrible except anger the elites and the oil companies and give the poor a voice for the first time in Venezuelan history?

I recommend that all the Chavez haters who seem to pop up every once in a while to slam him for no particular reason see the documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised."

Yes, it's pro-Chavez, but even more striking is the way in which his opponents are condemned by their own words and actions. They come off as a bunch of country club Republicans who are miffed because the poor folk aren't docile anymore, and not incidentally, as fascists who "restore democracy" by disbanding the national legislature and supreme court, arresting the president and Cabinet, and shutting down the public TV station. (There's footage of the leaders of the coup announcing that they have done that.)

Is Chavez a saint? No. But it's veerrrrry interesting that certain people are constantly slamming him but have nothing bad to say about alleged U.S. allies such as Pakistan and Uzbekistan, where the human rights violations are far beyond anything Chavez has even been accused of.

[samhsarah]

17. I haven't seen it....

I'm obviously not a Chavez hater, but I definitely will check it out. Thanks.

[personman]

18. There is another documentary

Coincidentally it aired right after I'd finished watching The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, and picked up right where it left off.
It followed Venezuelan politics right up till the referendum vote against Chavez (which he won by a landslide). I think it was on MSNBC or CNN. Perhaps someone else has seen it and remembers what it was called. I only saw it once a long time ago.

-personman

[jonnyblitz]

20. that is a great documentary!!

I recommend also! :thumbsup:

good post.

[leeroysphitz]

19. Does Chavez hate our freedom too? n/t

[samhsarah]

21. I believe it's that he hates us for our freedoms,

and our cheeseburgers.:P

[High Plains]

22. We sometimes forget that the Democratic Party largely shares

in the bipartisan foreign policy consensus in Washington. Chavez is a socialist and anti-imperialist, and that makes many establishment Democrats (and their supporters on this board) nervous, if not downright hostile.

Expecting the pro-capitalist Democratic Party to embrace Chavez is a reach. In fact, I'd wager that if and when it came to crunch time and the Republicans were howling for an invasion, we'd have mainstream Democrats arguing that we shouldn't invade until we put together a grand coalition.

[samhsarah]

23. Sounds about right to me.

"we'd have mainstream Democrats arguing that we shouldn't invade until we put together a grand coalition."

[earth mom]

24. I missed that memo too.

But I would have shredded it anyway. :evilgrin:

I'd rather see Chavez in office in this country instead of the criminals-who hate the middle class and the poor-that we've got right now. :grr: