CNN: Christian Companies are Okay!

[Bonobo]

CNN just did a story about a company that is entirely devoted to the teachings of Christ and they engage in worshippy activities ALL the time during work (I belive it was a construction company or something)

CNN of course did their usual "He believes strongly in his faith, but on the other side some say it isn't right, blah, blah, blah" version of "even-handed" coverage, but... the end message is the same. CNN slips these little stories in and by doing so, they innure us to the growing theocratic fascist nation... white pride is okay, religious faith (even in school, work) is okay, protest is wrong, etc.

CNN is sickening and FAR worse than FOX in my opinion -because it is insidious.

[plgoldsmith]

1. FAR worse

People know where Fox is coming from and largely discount it. This is what is known as the foxification of the news. And it's the cutesy stories that really kill. All part of the culture war.

[newyawker99]

19. Hi plgoldsmith!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bryant69]

2. That's a tricky situation

I would imagine that would create a hostile work situation for those not of his faith - and if he's only hiring people of his faith than that would be kind of illegal as well, wouldn't it?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[treestar]

16. If the company grows to whatever size it has to for the

discrimination laws to kick in, they're out of luck. Couldn't do it.

[SemperEadem]

49. they claim that they don't...

however, I'd like to see how many non-christians or those who are not interested in bible class on the job get promoted compared to those who do attend.

They say that on the ground in front of the business is a stencil on the concrete that boldly spells out that it is a christian company.. and that anyone applying to that company for work understands what their mission statement is.

I, for one, would not do business with that company because it's a foregone conclusion that they probably won't promote people who don't drink their kool-aid. How can you have a divisive management team and the overwhelming feelings of having to conform in order to advance?

It's like the Promise Keepers got together and bought themselves a business.

[Caoimhe]

3. When looking through the yellow pages

I specifically avoid doing business with any company that has one of those Jesus fish on their ad. It tells me that they WANT me to think they are MORE HONEST because of their faith, when in my experience.. the opposite is true. I need you to clear a clogged drain or repair my roof, not evangelize.

[RoBear]

11. Some Christian computer repair company

here in Wichita is under investigation for some sort of malfeasance. Needless to say, it's a matter of great hilarity to those in the atheist meet-up group...

[Caoimhe]

20. It provides good cover, doesn't it?

Since so few people care about ACTS but so many care about LABELS.

[ComerPerro]

21. "see, here's your problem"

"This little bit of hair here was clogging your drain. And you know the best way to get rid of these? Accept Jesus Christ as your savior. See, the Devil put that hair there to clogg your train..."

[Arugula Latte]

27. Yep. That Jesus fish might as well be a skull and crossbones to me.

I see one of those, I know I'll never patronize that business. I used to work for one, with a converted fundie (he was actually an intelligent man and I could see him struggling to reconcile his scientific knowledge with the Earth-is-4,000-years-old fairy tales he so desperatedly WANTED to believe). I really resented the way the Xtians at that company tried to shove their crap down the non-reigious employees' throats. I believe that's one reason I am so negative about religion in general now.

[kestrel91316]

30. Can somebody explain to me - what IS it with the two-handed

Nazi salute these folks are so obsessed with????

[SemperEadem]

50. they're calling themselves praying

[kestrel91316]

63. Very unbiblical, IMHO. Prayer (according to Christ himself) is supposed

to be by oneself, in PRIVATE. Not an occasion for showing off or one-upmanship.

:shrug:

[Norquist Nemesis]

4. Just saw the end of that piece

Is it just me or that this Christian thing is just getting way out of control and dominating everything? Seriously. Most Everywhere I turn, it seems to be a factor in some way.

Supposedly, 40% of their workforce is "non-Christian" and they said it's never been a problem. That they've never been pressured. Then, they show a group of employees being led in prayer by the bosses. To believe that those bosses don't make a note, even unconsciously, about who's participating and who isn't is silly. 'We have concern for their eternal soul, but it's their choice.' WTF?

[SemperEadem]

51. and that's where I have a problem

"'We have concern for their eternal soul,"

If you're not the one standing up before God and explaining yourself, then what does the condition of another person's soul have to do with you? Because it's free and you don't have to come off of money, all of a sudden you're concerned, but when it came to that person losing their job, not having health care--or access to universal health care, being homeless, not having enough money for food and electricity, you couldn't be bothered? Didn't want your taxes raised to aid poor working families? Didn't their Jesus admonish his so-called followers by saying "when I had no clothes/food/a warm place to sleep, you turned your back on me" and "whatsoever you do to the least of you, that you do unto me" ?

The status of anyone's immortal soul is that person's business and no one else's... and I don't care what your bible tells you---my business is my own... me and Jesus gon' be alright.

[Ilsa]

5. So, does someone get fired if they scream "Fuck!!!" after hitting their

thumb with a hammer? Just kidding. I know real pros in construction wouldn't do that.

[MindPilot]

12. Probably not.

But take the Lord's name in vain, and there is HELL to pay!! :D

REAL pros in construction can drive nails with telekenisis...or a nail gun.

[Ezlivin]

6. That's why I only frequent Christian Strip Clubs

When I do my "laying on of hands" there is never any objection.

[JDPriestly]

7. Discriminate based on religion and they may end up in court.

[spoony]

8. So a private business is now a harbinger of "theocracy"

Some of you guys should really ask Santa for a dictionary. Or some tolerance.

[Bonobo]

10. Tolerance!? So I can't feed my family in that community cause I don't believe

in Jesus? Even if I'm qualified for a job and a great guy or gal?

[MemphisTiger]

13. You can always work for another private company that

doesn't do these things. Ain't freedom great?

[Bonobo]

17. Yeah, great.

[stanwyck]

23. True. But I really like the job I've had for 12 yrs.

and I resent how our privately owned company has become more overtly fundamentalist Christian in past years. There are prayer circles in the conference room, numerous prayers at every social gathering, and our company Christmas Card this year veered from the professional Happy Holidays to Merry Christmas on the insistence of a fundie office manager. Our sales people found this troubling as many of our clients are non-Christians who could be offended by a company holiday card proclaiming "Merry Christmas."
The fundamentalist Christians have become very vocal and forceful about what they consider appropriate without regard to the moderate Christians or the non-Christians.
And you have to wonder...when does this "freedom" become oppression? We have gay employees. Will they, like our previous Happy Holiday message, become a target? When "freedom" is used to repress, is that really freedom?
I was raised as a Presbyterian in the Midwest and I still adhere to how I was raised. Religious beliefs and practices are private. You should know someone, respect them, do business with them, without inquiring their religion or proselytizing. You respect their spirituality as part of their personal life. It doesn't belong in the classroom or the boardroom.
I think that kind of consideration for other people is a healthier workplace. We're supposed to be working and contributing to the bottom line, not flaunting our religious beliefs and engaging in church activities while at work.

[Marnieworld]

33. Amen!

Recently, I had an odd situation with my boss. He is more of a new-age person rather than Christian, but I experienced a similiar dynamic. He was all excited about this new "movie" he watched called "The Secret" and wanted me to check out the website. It seemed very new-agey, touchy feely, and more like psycho-babble self-help stuff. Go to any New Age section of a bookstore for the general vibe. So then he calls my desk to see if I went to the site and if I wanted to borrow a copy of the movie. I gave him a lukewarm response, yet the next day or so there he was handing me a copy. After a few days he called to see why I haven't mentioned it or if I watched it. He had also given it to other co-workers who I know were just as uninterested as I was.

So I watched it and I thought it was ridiculous. I thought it was a philosophy that was illogical, arrogant and infantile. I also knew that he identified with the material tremendously so if I gave it an honest review I would be calling him those things. Luckily, I found a way to talk about it without saying I agreed or disagreed with it. I said that it really wasn't a "secret" because Shirley Maclaine wrote about the same concepts 20 years ago which satisfied him.

My point is, it could be Christianity, or Scientology, or New Age Philosophy. When the pressure comes from your boss, you do not have any power in the relationship to deal with it equally. Sure, if I said my actual thoughts on it I doubt that he would fire me but perhaps it would have an affect on our relationship or any future raises etc.

If there were prayer meetings and bible studies at my job and everyone attended I would feel genuine pressure to attend. I would not want to attend as I am not Christian. Yet there would be pressure because I need to work and do well to continue working. My philosophies should have no relation to this and I fear a day when they would.

When you work for someone there is a limit to what you can do or say. It is a relationship without balanced power. For an employer in the OP it seems very inappropriate to me because it clearly favors one group of people over another and impacts someone's job. There is no way to have this be fair so therefore it is inappropriate in a work place setting.

I have bills. I can't just leave. If someone worked at a place which was otherwise good I can imagine how much that would suck. I am tolerant of everyone. I truly believe that there should be religious neutral areas of life to avoid conflicts like these.

[L A Woman]

44. but it's a privately-owned company...

If you own a company, do you want to be told how to run it? There are companies that are gay-friendly, which is great to me, but maybe wouldn't be to someone else. So that someone else should look for employment elsewhere.

If you're that uncomfortable with it, can't you look elsewhere?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

47. It's illegal under certain federal and state employment laws to discriminate

against employees based on their religion, and this can include proselytizing of employees by other employees or the bosses. http://www.adl.org/religious_freedom/resource_kit/religion_workplace.asp

So yes, if you run a company you CAN be told that you can't require your employees to attend prayer meetings, etc.

[MemphisTiger]

60. It depends on how they do it, if they fire you because of

your religious beliefs then yes you can sue them but if they prey that is not crossing the line. Good luck finding a jury to find for you on that charge. You don't have to attend the prayers or participate.

[SemperEadem]

52. oh yeah..

good paying jobs with decent benefits are so easy to come by these says, it's like money falling off of trees.:sarcasm:

[stanwyck]

56. Exactly! The "just look elsewhere"

attitude. I would expect that from a conservative. But not from a DUer.

[stanwyck]

55. Even for business owners, there are rules

we don't work on plantations. So, yes, business owners are told how to run their businesses. There are safety rules and minimum wages. There are state and federal laws governing business owners. You don't have free rein when you own a business. And if you value your employees, all of your employees, an intelligent business owner will not make a business into a church. If the requirement for your employee is that he/she adhere to your religious beliefs -- and that outweighs the person's abilities and knowledge -- then you're not a wise business owner.
The owners of the business where I work, two brothers, value the diversity of their employees. Unfortunately, the owners have been more absentee recently as they are both in their fifties and starting to "semi-retire." In their absence, a small group of fundamentalists have started to make work time - church time.
And the rest of us have been very tolerant and live and let live.
However, that may change. Their dogmatic religious attitudes during work hours are becoming tiresome.

[originalpckelly]

14. Tolerance is a two way street.

You've got to give it in order to get it.

My grandpa was no sissy and surely wasn't an atheist, but I'll tell you he gave me a good bit of advice:
"Politics and religion should stay out of the workplace."

Even though I love talking about politics here, I never bring it into a business setting. Nor should anyone with religion.

They're too controversial, and people shouldn't be denied opportunity because of their beliefs.

[KingFlorez]

15. I think you're the one who needs the dictionary

What does tolerance have to do with this?

[spoony]

24. It's a private business populated with Christians,

why the hell is that your business?? And what does it have to do with theocracy? C'mon, I dare you to explain that connexion. I dare you.

[KingFlorez]

28. edit

[spoony]

29. Yes, it does.

Tolerating that people choose to have faith as a part of their PRIVATE BUSINESS. What has nothing to do with that company is the bizarre notion that it is a sign of our country becoming a theocracy, as the OP claimed.

[Goblinmonger]

34. So if bigots owned a PRIVATE BUSINESS

and refused to hire anyone but whites, you would have no problem with that?

How about men only?

[spoony]

37. Wow.

You really do think those are the same as this, don't you? It says far more about you than about the company CNN profiled.

[Goblinmonger]

58. You don't think they are the same?

Not hiring someone (or promoting or whatever) because of race, creed, gender, etc. is bigotry. Or do you think we should just toss out the creed part of that? You probably don't have a problem with a religious test to hold office, then, either. Apparently discrimination based on religion is back in now?

[L A Woman]

45. Naturally, no one responding to this thread actually WATCHED the story!

I did. They didn't say anything about refusing to hire anybody. They are just running their business in accordance with their values. Last time I checked, private businesses still had a right to do that.

[SemperEadem]

53. I watched it

however, it's what wasn't said that troubles me. It's what they **weren't** asked that troubles me.

I wanted to know how do they promote? Will they promote an employee who does not participate in their prayer meetings? How many have they promoted who aren't white, male and xtian? Sure, they employ people who aren't xtian, but they said NOTHING about their promotion philosophy... and all of the managers sitting in that meeting were white male xtians--I saw no women; no latinos; no one of color. It was like a Promise Keeper meeting.

But saying that they can run their business according to their values gives the greenlight to companies not hiring minorities/women because they don't consider them to be in accordance to their values. If they're receiving any kind of federal funds, they're inviting trouble.

And I thought that one could not serve both God and money.

[Marnieworld]

36. I think the OP meant that CNN was trying to prepare us for theocracy

with subtle propaganda to accept all of this Christianity in places where it used to be considered appropriate. Not the actual business itself.

[spoony]

38. Yeah, hence "harbinger"

And it's still as stupid an argument as before. And I should bloody hope you "accept" people's rights to include faith in their business if they see fit without "propaganda."

By that logic, conservatives are right about the "homosexual agenda" in schools since it "used to be considered inappropriate" and that damn "subtle propaganda" of teaching tolerance has changed all that.

Of course, that's even assuming you're right about it being previously inappropriate, which you are not. Faith is shunned far more than it is accepted now, as is evidenced quite clearly by this thread and countless others like it. ("I'm so angry I saw a Moses book in the mall!" lol, get over yourselves people.)

[Marnieworld]

59. golly you sound so angry

I grew up hearing that one should avoid talk of religion and politics in certain settings so that is where I deduced that it was previously considered inappropriate. I grew up in a diverse faith area so secularism was just the default way that included everyone. That always just seemed fair to me.

I do think it is inappropriate if a person in power tries to have their subordinates participate in non-work related religious activity during work time. I think it's inappropriate because it makes the amount of belief you have part of a job instead of the job itself. It's impossible to know how much is genuine or how much of it is coerced since the power in the relationship is not balanced. It sets up division between co-workers and creates a difficult situation for someone who does not want to participate. It's basic us vs. them mentality.

I'm not talking about someone wearing a cross or just being devout. I am happy with whatever works for you. It's the requirement to join in or declare your faith in a work setting that I do find inappropriate. Because when the boss is wanting people to participate (if your boss wants particpation it's not an option without repercussions) and you don't it can affect your job. If you don't join in it can affect your work relationships which can also affect your job or at least your experience of it. It forces you to out yourself when otherwise it wouldn't come up. It opens up so many potential problems that the safest thing would to leave it outside so all people can feel welcome, included and valued.

It's just a nicer world when we all take the time to imagine what it is like for those different than the norm and how we'd like to be treated.

Peace.

[kestrel91316]

31. That would be "connection". Hey, guys, we got another FREEPERISM!!

[KingFlorez]

32. You're right!

LOL!

[spoony]

39. I'm British, geniuses.

Look it up.

[ieoeja]

66. That explains your ignorance.

I was floored by your reply #38.

"Of course, that's even assuming you're right about it (homosexuality) being previously inappropriate, which you are not."

Inappropriate would have been a poor choice. A far better choice would have been "illegal" as homosexuality was illegal in the United States prior to 1969.


"Faith is shunned far more than it is accepted now, as is evidenced quite clearly by this thread and countless others like it."

This is the one that completely stunned me. Most people are ignorant of the fact that homosexuality was illegal in this country less than forty years ago. But Christianity is EVERYWHERE in this country. I can't drive five blocks in Chicago, a liberal bastion, without seeing some advertisement, usually on the benches at city bus stops, telling me I am going to hell.

What in the world makes you think life in the States is just like life in England? In case you missed it, we threw your asses out a couple hundred years ago and have been going our own way ever since. Sure, we still fight your wars for you because, well, we're idiots. But while we may happily die for you wankers, we live for ourselves!

:)

[spoony]

67. More poor reading comprehension

"Of course, that's even assuming you're right about it (homosexuality) being previously inappropriate, which you are not."

That, actually, was not what I wrote. What I was then referring to was religiosity, which should have been obvious by the context. The claim was made that religion was not appropriate in the workplace in the past, and that now some terrible shadow of theocracy is spreading upon everything. Such an idea is silly. Workplace religiosity is far more stifled now than it was as little as fifteen years ago.

"I can't drive five blocks in Chicago, a liberal bastion, without seeing some advertisement, usually on the benches at city bus stops, telling me I am going to hell."

So? Are you claiming that wasn't there in years past? I've been here for 18 years and I certainly haven't seen any increase in that sort of thing.

"What in the world makes you think life in the States is just like life in England?"

It's more similar now than it was when I first got here.

"In case you missed it, we threw your asses out a couple hundred years ago and have been going our own way ever since. Sure, we still fight your wars for you because, well, we're idiots. But while we may happily die for you wankers, we live for ourselves!"

Well that's adorable and all, and I can just picture you in your Larry the Cable Guy shirt saying "Yewd all be speechin' Germain if it what wasn't fer us Frenchies!" but as I said I've been here 18 years, and lately it would seem that the British have been the ones fighting your wars for you.

[spoony]

41. And by the way...

it is the epitome of laziness to simply shout "freeper" every time someone disagrees with you. You should go ahead and put me on ignore if you think such base insults are going to work on me.

[kestrel91316]

64. The nasty PM doesn't help my opinion, BTW.

[spoony]

65. Yeah, how dare I correct your incorrect correction

Remember, only 'mericans standards matter! Aren't there some people using the metric system you should be trying to correct?

[Marnieworld]

35. nevermind

[Nite Owl]

9. CNN is far worse than

FOX. People know where FOX is coming from, they know they are hearing the right wing propaganda but CNN has the image of being 'liberal' when all they do is cover the fascism up better.

[ComerPerro]

22. agree completely.

[devilgrrl]

18. I'd rather just watch FAUX - CNN sucks hard...

really fucking hard.

:puke:

[tinfoil tiaras]

25. At least Fox is funny

CNN isnt.

[KamaAina]

26. I'll be waiting for the puff piece about a "Muslim company"

but I won't be holding my breath, otherwise I'd turn blue.

[TahitiNut]

42. Exactly. It's that kind of observation that spotlights the hypocrisy and propagandism.

"Would they treat this news the same way if ______?" is, imho, always the way to see biased news coverage.

[spoony]

43. Lol, I ask myself the same thing about this thread

"Would they treat this news the same way if _____ "

You're right, it's a wonderful way to expose bias.

Incidentally, Detroit media has stories about Muslim businesses on a semi-regular basis. Oddly I have not seen any posts here saying that the Detroit News is trying to soften us up for Sharia.

[ContraBass Black]

40. If it's the internal activity of a private company, it's legal, and they don't

Discriminate against the public, what's the problem?

[L A Woman]

46. The problem is this...

we need another Christian-bashing thread. It's Christmastime!

[Bill McBlueState]

54. the activities of private companies are often subject to regulation

None of us are likely to be up on the specifics, but it wouldn't be surprising if there are laws in this jurisdiction that restrict the right of the management of some private companies to proselytize.

edit: Ocelot posted an instructive link in post 47: http://www.adl.org/religious_freedom/resource_kit/religion_workplace.asp

[ContraBass Black]

62. If it's not legal, then the issue is the illegality,

Not softening up the public for the installation of Fascist Theocracy.

[Swede]

48. Your tinfoil hat is on a little tight.

Change the channel.

[ikojo]

57. If I ever needed to employ anyone for anything

I'd first avoid anyone who advertises using the Christian fish. I don't need to know someone's faith before they do something for which I am paying them. When I see the fish in a business ad I take it to mean, "Yeah, you're going to get screwed by me but Hey! I'M FORGIVEN!"

Live your faith and let your actions be a testimony to your relationship to your faith.


Some of the kindest and most genuinely concerned people I know are atheists who are kind and concerned because it's the right thing to do and not because they fear hell after they die.

[Javaman]

61. This is the biggest scam this side of the nigerian emails...

I had a buddy that worked at a gas station that sported trunk fish left and right all in a hope to attract a "like minded" clientele.

Well it was revealed to my buddy that it was colossal bullshit.

The owner told him that he never went to church or even believed in any sort of religion. The only reason he puts up the trunk fish is to attract gullible people to use his station for repairs.

The one thing he also said is and I quote, "I could charge virtually anything to these people because they don't question my word due to the fish sign on the door".

So there you go with one side of the "christian" business ethic.