After last night, I am a man without a party

[kliljedahl]

By
Raconteur at Large
Stephen Pizzo
February 1, 2006
Posted in its entirety by permission of the author

Man Without A Party


I got nothing more and nothing less than I expected from George W. Bush's State of the Union last night. It was George being 110% George – which still left him about 105% short of what a president oughta be.

Nevertheless I girded my loins, poured a double brandy and listened through to the end just to see what the Democrats would serve up as a rebuttal.

What they served up was Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine. In all America Democrats succeeded in finding a speaker boring than Al Gore and blander than John Kerry. It was like watching Michael Dukakis playing scrabble on three Valium.

Ah but there was a triangulated method to the Democrats madness. They picked Kaine to give the State of the Union response “because he is comfortable talking about his faith.” Which he did by starting right out letting listeners know he began his adult life as a missionary.

So there you have it. Democrats have joined the “faith and values” camp. If you believe in stuff that contradicts not just commonsense, but science as well, Democrats want you back and are willing to pretend they too see that six-foot tall white rabbit you say goes everywhere with you. Because faith is a powerful thing, and faith must be not just protected, but nurtured – nurtured into votes.

Republicans were first to figure out that there were millions of voters out there who would vote for anyone who pandered to their belief in the metaphysical. It was sure easier than coming up with real solutions and policies too. All GOP candidates needed to do was throw a few “God bless America's” into their speeches, say they too believed a fertilized egg is a person and that public schools would be better off if kids prayed there. That was all there was to it. Those voters were theirs for the taking.

Democrats resisted pandering to the biblically lobotomized. Instead Democrats clung to the quaint notion that a nation cobbled together from an international inventory of races, cultures and religions, would fly apart in sectarian strife unless the government remained secular in all matters held in common.

But the Republicans got it right. When your fortunes are tied to sheep, become shepherds. Make no quick moves or loud noises. Sheep spook easily. What they need most is reassurance. And you can't lead sheep, you herd them. If you try to lead sheep they will just stand there confused, munching their cud as you march bravely off, alone.

So Democrats, tired of seeing Republican shepherds rustle the flocks, decided to become shepherds too. Shepherds of the faithful. Herding, rather than leading, them to the polls.


Of course this will all end badly. But in the short term it will work. Faith-based Democrats will peel off voters from faith-based Republicans. Who knows, faith-based Democrats may even regain control of Congress, even the White House.

But by then it will make little difference. Republican or Democrat, they will soon find themselves tangled in a sectarian brier patch which, once started, spreads like wildfire. Ask the folks in what used to be Yugoslavia – at least those who are still alive to tell about it. Ask the Tutsi, the Ugandans, the Sudanese, and Ethiopians. Ask the folks of Northern Ireland, or Iraq. They will tell you what happens when politicians become faith-based shepherds.

So, what's my bottom line after last night's speechifying? I had written off Republicans long ago. Now I am done with Democrats as well. I am now officially a man without a party -- and increasingly, without hope.

If there is to be hope again – at least for lost lambs like me – it will have to come in the form of a new party – call it the American Unity Party.

But third parties are always losers. Almost from the day they are announced they attract political and social wingnuts like Rush Limbaugh to pain killers. For such a party to avoid the same fate, it be infused from its inception with leaders who are known, proven and respected.

And the only way to get leaders like that is if they defect from the Democrat and Republican parties.

Here's a cheery day dream. Imagine waking up one morning and tuning in CNN to find a group of familiar men and women holding a press conference announcing they are leaving their party to form the American Unity Party. Among them, Russ Fiengold, Barack Obama, John McCain, Byron Dorgan, James Jeffords, Pat Leahy and Barney Frank. No where in sight is Hillary, John Kerry, Tom DeLay or Lieberman.

The platform for the AUP: (Pronounced “up” by the way.)

* Restate the secular traditions our enlightened founders set as the corner stone of what they knew would become the world's most successful and enduring secular democracy.
* End the tax-free status of any religious institutions or organizations that become involved in partisan political activities.
* Set forth a fair, simple and progressive tax system.
* Bury once and for all the cynical, disingenuous and failed “tinkle down,” economics and replace it with “trickle up” economics -- a system that puts money in the pockets of working Americans who then spend it on products and services thereby enriching those who produce and provide them.
* Acknowledge the reality of global warming and the imminent danger it poses to all mankind. Set forth a 10-year plan to deal with it.
* Return domestic issues to the top of the political agenda.
* Wind down our failed forced-democratization military adventures in the Middle East.
* Propose implementation of a national, single-payer health care insurance system.
* Propose a constitutional amendment mandating public financing of campaigns for federal office, including President.


Now, wouldn't that be a nice way to start your day? A new party, but filled with names and faces who have fought these battles before, and there for know where the land mines are buried. A party headed by folks who decided to throw away safe political careers to return America to what it was before the Neo-con revolution perverted and converted it into a modern-day Sparta.

But unless something as unlikely as that occures, I see no hope on the horizon. Hillary Clinton? Rudolf Guiliani? John Kerry – again? Democrats without coherent domestic or foreign policies or Republicans with bad ones. Your choice.

But not mine. I'll sit on my hands during the next election if those are my only choices. And I I suspect many like me will do the same. Democrats hoping that by pandering to “people of faith,” combined with the accumulated messes caused by Bush policies will give them a win next November.

Maybe so. But so what. And isn't that precisely the point.

"News With Nuts"



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[hobbit709]

1. Sign me up with AUP

[TahitiNut]

21. Sounds like mainstream liberalism to me.

It's too bad neither of the two major political parties espouses such human values today.

[leftstreet]

47. I call it The Center Party. That of which our leadership will not speak.

God forbid they should appeal to the real and true "center" in this country.

[cantstandbush]

35. Faith is = "communism" of the cold war. They needed something

after the end of the cold war and they found it in faith. You would think God would not like being USED in that way?

[Dancindays]

51. good point

...they must have something to latch onto.

[slor]

2. Thanks for posting n/t

[JeffR]

3. There's validity in this screed

But anyone who's going to give up on the Democrats based on Kaine's SOTU response is just being silly.

[havocmom]

4. Hand wringing seems to be the IN thing

Lots of it going on today. You're right... silly it is!

[JeffR]

6. I'm yearning

For a simpler time when everybody was going to leave over the (non-)filibuster.

[AZBlue]

40. LMAO!

Wonder what it will be next week?....

[JeffR]

42. Give it time

It's gotta be something.
:popcorn:

[MadHound]

9. Frankly, I thought Kaine to a good job

In a very humble, folksy, polite way, Kaine viciously critiqued the Bush administration concerning all of the outrageous policies they've put forth, from taking us into a war based on lies, to the cultural of cronyism running rampant in Washington, to how forgotten the Gulf Coast is. And he did it in a manner that connects well with the red state swing voters.

If you had put a fire breather like Murtha up there, most of these voters would have turned him off after the first sentence, and all you would have heard in the MSM and RW echo chamber would be how said fire breather was a partisan hater, trying to divide the government and America. Instead, Kaine approached it low key and polite, and probably educated a lot of people out there whose votes are important to the party.

[JeffR]

15. Agreed

Also, a lot of people are forgetting that the opposition response to a SOTU address doesn't draw a big audience. People are more apt to hear or read about in the MSM after the fact, and it seems the MSM take on it was favorable, or at least neutral.

If we accept the premise that most SOTU viewers are likely supporters of a president, Kaine's rejoinder was pitched about right.

[malaise]

54. I agree with the lead post

The most Senior democrat who stands up for the values associated with the Democratic party in this time of crisis should have been the person to speak last night. It was downright embarrassing, mealy-mouth and opportunistic.

After having Gore and Kerry addressing serious issues last week, this pandering to bullspit was just plain vulgar. The Dems appear to no longer know the party ideology or even how to excite the base which is amazing given Gore and Kerry last week.

I have very little hope for this planet - this malaise is deepening. What keeps me going is knowing that the people will deal with both sides when the right time comes.

[MadHound]

64. So I suppose that you don't want to pick up any red state votes?

This is an election year, and Kaine's speaking last night was part of that overall strategy, win over a bunch of red state swing voters, that is what this was all about. I'm about as liberal as they come friend, and yet I even understand the need for that sort of tactic. You throw a fire-breather out there, somebody who will rant and rave and give Bush the what for, and all you will hear west of the Mississippi and east of the Rockies is the sound of channels being changed.

Instead, they wisely put on somebody who these potential voters can relate to, and while he sounds humble, and folksy, and god forbid, polite, he blasts Bush and his policies just as hard as Villaraigosa did in his speech last night, in fact as hard as any Dem could have blasted Bush, but did so in a way that appeals to these red state voters and makes them think, and hopefully vote Democratic in the fall.

It was a sound strategic move on the Dem's part, one of the few that they've come up with recently. Perhaps they'll come up with more:shrug:

[deutsey]

10. Maybe it's just a case of the straw breaking the camel's back?

[JeffR]

18. Maybe

But even if one thinks Kaine did a poor job, or that Kaine was a poor choice, it's clutching at straws to see this as a straw, IMO.

[deutsey]

60. Looks like we're building a real strawman, huh? *ba dum peesh!*

Sorry. Stupid attempt at one-upping your straw cliche after you one-upped my initial straw cliche.

:evilgrin:

[JeffR]

77. Ha!

This whole thread is getting strawful.
;-)

[ret5hd]

12. guess you missed the point...

it wasn't what was explicitly said, or who said it...

it is more why things were said and why a particular peerson was chosen to say it.

thats the way i read it anyway. YMMV.

but, anywhoo, where's the sign-up sheet?

[JeffR]

24. The SOTU rebuttal isn't intended to be red meat for the base

It's intended for the opposition's ears. And the fence-sitters.

If I want red meat, I'll reread President Gore's speech for the 20th time.

On edit: President Gore

[ret5hd]

49. well, it SHOULDN'T be red-meat for the fundies, either.

[JeffR]

53. But was it?

I'd bet there's less ridicule of Kaine on Free Republic today than there is here. Not that i intend to go there to check...

[ret5hd]

65. my point exactly...glad you agree.

[JeffR]

68. The rebuttal is calibrated to address Republican voters

Not goad them. JMHO.

[whalerider55]

how about...

giving up on them because they felt compelled to attend the SOTU this year, after fairly conclusive evidence that Bush used a previous SOTU to lie us into a "state of conflict" (since only congress can approve a declaration of war, they did the next best thing by virtually abrogating their constitutioal responsibility).

how about giving up on them because they managed to produce a filibuster proof no vote on alito, but couldn't manage to produce a filibuster-proof vote on cloture.

how about giving up on them because even if they thought they were doing the right thing on alito (hmm. which vote was the right thing, a no vote on him or a no vote on holding a vote for someone you were going to vote no on; relativism is a bitch)ther eare some things you do because they are right; things aren't black and white, but there are some things you do simply because it is the right thing to do. it has something to do with morality.

there are some votes the senate takes that are affected by the give and take of olitucs, of getting something for you constituents in exchange for a vote.

this wasn't one of those votes. this was a vote that will affect the lives of my children from now on, as long as this country manages to hold together. this time, it mattered what a chickenshit dem senator from new mexico voted, even tho i live in MA. this was a vote that required statesmanship.

they failed. we are no closer to sanity for having sent them to dc, no closer to sanity because they were democrats voting on a national issue that probably has as far-reaching effects on my children as any vote they take.

we are ten years away from the dem party mattering nationally.

in ten years, people of common cause, energy and genuine conviction can build a third party that will force the country back into the middle, that will temper the reflexive tendency of republicans to press for business friendly policies, and the unwillingness of the democratic party to find a line and hold to it.

if i was a democrat, i'd be ashamed today.

as an american, i am ashamed.

if i were a republican, i wouldn't feel anything today, because feelings require the possibility that there are needs outside your own that society has a responsibility to meet.

i fail to see where the dem party, even on my local level, has any message that incorporates change, progress, and any sort of moral honesty to it. i've looked, and am encouraged at the grassroots level in some places. but not enough at this point to work within a system that doesn't even realize it is broken. better to build anew

whalerider

[JeffR]

37. whalerider, if Pizzo's piece was as good as what you just said

I wouldn't have such a problem with it.

You raise some excellent points, and I take them very seriously.

What I think is needed here is to upgrade the Democratic Party rather than trade it in for a new one. It'll take a lot longer to build a party from scratch than clear the brush (pardon the expression!) from the old one, plant a new crop, and nurture it to fertility.

We're all discouraged about things recently, but with the Abramoff shit soon to hit the fan, Frist's insider trading, the Dictator-Tot's lousy approval ratings, the slow-motion train-wreck in Iraq, and so on, things aren't necessarily as bad on this side of the aisle as they sometimes seem.

[Greyhound]

70. These bright spots, while providing short-term relief, are just more

distractions from the real damage that has been done. Abramoff, Frist, DeLay, Iraq, etc., etc., while scandalous have little to nothing to do with the legislative ass-rape that has been perpetrated on us and I'm afraid by the time the sheeple catch up it will be too late.
Since the Democratic Party shows no signs of life, in spite of the re:puke:s handing them all of the tools and rope necessary to wipe them from the national landscape, I', very interested in a 3rd party like the one described in the OP. The Dems just seem moribund, and unwilling to try anything that might upset their cushy positions. "To serve the wealthy and protect the status quo." should be their new motto.

[JeffR]

71. Then they have to go

What's being talked about here is purging the Democratic Party of liberals. That's the exact opposite of what needs to be done.

It's the conservatives who should be packing their bags and getting the hell out of the party. That'll never happen if the progressives jump ship.

[Greyhound]

73. I think it is The Party that's purging the liberals, fortunately we

provide all of the drive, ideas, and creativity for The Party, so many will follow. With no progressives the Democratic Party will just whither and die, to be replaced by something better.

[JeffR]

76. And with no conservatives

The Democratic Party will reach its real potential.

Think back to the weird days of the Dixiecrats. Where did they go? Where they belonged, to the other side of the aisle. And good riddance to them.

I just don't understand why the frustration with the party's direction isn't translating into determination to change it. Isn't this what politics should be about?

[whalerider55]

79. it won't be a new one

it'll be just like what the dems used to be.

i can tell you from experience, the local dems wanat nothing to do with progressive candidates.
the state dems want nothing to do with progressive candidates. they turned their backs on robert reich, to nominate a loser hack to run; they're turning away from deval patrick, to nominate a loser dem to run for governor. we havn't had a dem governor since Dukakis.

they are profoundly disconnected fromthe community on virtually everyh level here in MA; it was with some irony that I noted a front=page article in the globe this sunday that the dems are out on the hustings wooing former dems to return to the party.

and yet, they are still in the business of nominating hereditary party hacks like shannon o'brien and tom reilly for governor, uninspired candidates who couldn't beat a republican
appointed governor with a $750,000 credit card debt and a carpetbagger candidate who was a corporate raider who threw hundreds out of work in massachusetts.

they want sheep; they're not interested in real dialogue about where the party needs to go and how it needs to get there.

sorry, but none the aforementioned shit is gonna make a damn's worth of difference. it won't bring the openess to ideas, alter the general fecklessness and fear of losing what we have, and the clarity of vision that are the real source of the parties collapse, at least here as a relevent entity in MA, in my 'umble opinion.

they are not interested in me.

they are as bad on our side of the aisle as i think. because, in the end, when you cannot meaningfully fight back, recognize what it is that makes you different from the f*ckers who laugh at you and crap on the constitution, there is no our side of the aisle.

we are bereft of leadership, and ten years away from relevance.

me, i'd rather look outside the party, where there is a far greater pool of progressives wandering around, and the gene pool isn't quite so shallow, than spend those ten years fighting with the dlc for the soul of a party that gave it up for a few sheckels so willingly.

sorry. but i don't really think i'll be missed. which is a shame, because i am an elected official on a local level; i work my ass off, stay informed about issues, and try to press for dialogue and action that makes lives better here in the community.

when I was a kid, we used to call those kind of people democrats. now, they make up the majority here in MA- independents and unenrolleds.

whalerider

[Greyhound]

80. Zactly. I've seen similar behavior in other states as well.

Here, I'm not sure, and have really neglected getting involved. Trying to keep the wolves at bay, ya know.
They will miss you someday too late. :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. That is just the latest

in a long line of votes, et al... it is a pattern given to you by the DLC... who are not only loosing elections, but now loosing the base.

[blm]

66. Pizzo writes a book about S&L scandal, wants to be in party w/McCain and

identifies him with Feingold and Dorgan. Kerry uncovers BCCI scandal - biggest fucking terrorist banking network - and Pizzo refuses to be in a party with him and groups Kerry in with Tom DeLay?

Pizzo is so obviously pushing Dems towards McCain with this piece.

Pizzo's past articles are all crafted to appeal to the left, says he wants an end to war, and then deifies McCain who is aggressively pro-war while attacking Kerry who has been one of only 3 people to put out a legitimate Iraq withdrawal plan?

Anyone else smell the disconnect?

[pitohui]

5. before you give up the party read this

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/capital/index.ssf?/base/news-3/113877741975690.xml

this lady still has nads -- and she is a democratic governor

instead of giving up and sitting on hands and going "oh woe" find the dems with balls, and they won't always be the males, and support them loudly and proudly

[whalerider55]

81. oh, i'll support them

from the outside, while i work to create an alternative to the dem party of the DLC.
there simply is no working from the inside.
while i appreciate what dean is doing to return the party to the state committees, the state committees, by and large, are filled with hereditary hacks who have forgotten democratic ideals.

in many ways, i'm beyond either established party now.

in my life, i've worked for Gene McCarthy, George McGovern, and Mo Udall for president.
can you think of one single democrat, alive now, who can hold a candle to these men as visionaries, leaders, and democrats of courage? One? I can- Conyers. Murtha, with whom i disagreee on nearly every substantive position he's taken for years. Anyone in the Senate? Kennedy, maybe. Herb no cloture Kohl? DIane which way blows the wind Feinstein? Obama, who took a half dozen primetime opportunities to belittle and undercut ther filibuster? Maybe Edwards.

Perhaps Boxer; in time.

even more than that, one who is considering running for president?

maybe clark. maybe even feingold, who is wonderful but spent his first two terms rubberstamping presidential appointments on the ridiculous principle that a president deserves his own team, regardless of how inept and unqualified they may be for the job? Hillary Clinton? Nice but a tad pandericious for me.

and exactly what is the future of the democratic party? where is the courage and vision, the leadership?

rahm emanual?

i'll support the thoughtful and courageous democrats, in the same way i'd support greens, independents, and g-d help me republicans who do the right thing./

at this time in history, i am completely convinced that anything proposed by a republican has a black heart beating in it's soul.

but the dems need to show me the money- and the currency is a recommitment to progressive ideals and a willingness to fight for it.

until then, i'm off the reservation.
and i am under no illusions they'll miss me.

whalerider

[Lowell]

7. AUP makes too much sense

the sheeple will never buy it.

[Zenlitened]

8. It is kind of chilling,this sentiment that we must out-god the god-talkers

... that in order to defeat them we must become them.

"Oh, but we'll be liberal religionists," the response goes.

Sorry, I don't see it. This guy Kaine is perfectly happy throwing gays and lesbians off the pier.

Who's next? What other issues will get the bible-treatment in order to win a few more "faith votes"?

And when it all winds up, what will be the difference if the party despoiling progressive values calls itself dem or repub?

Hard times, to be a proponent of America's progressive ideals.

:hide:

[jonnyblitz]

33. that is chilling. I am glad I missed the speech. nt

[iamthebandfanman]

11. i dont like it either...

BUT


we can sit around and be holier than thou with our ideas and issues but sooner or later we are gonna hafta make sacrifices for the greater good.

if pretending to be people of faith like the bastards in the republican party do now will get our foot in the door and allow us to bring overwhelming liberal legislation like they have done to us with their ideaological garbage...
then sign me up.

i dunno
its just a tough call.
i suggest he not leave tho. not yet. give it time.

[NYCGirl]

14. This may surprise you, but there are liberals who are real people of faith

Check it out.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm

[iamthebandfanman]

17. i believe it!

i know they do :)

[Southsideirish]

26. Yes, but we won't use it as a poltical ploy.

[mattclearing]

13. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Another "I'm leaving because of <blah>" post. Good riddance.

And you used Democrat as an adjective.

:D

[Southsideirish]

28. What a clever phrase, did you just make it up? n/t

[mattclearing]

32. Impugning my wit with an equally droll retort. Nice one. n/t

[blm]

38. They fall for a McCain push-poll essay and impugn YOUR intellect? HAHAH.

.

[mattclearing]

41. Seriously. n/t

[rd_kent]

16. I am so there!!!!

A party like that would be GREAT!!!!!

[Democrats_win]

19. 100% right. Don't forget campaign & election reform. Nothing happens w/o

it. None of those congress people can move without money. That We need a constitutional amendment to get rid of corporate control of elections, to severely limit donations and spending, and to insure that a voting machine is developed by a group of engineers for ALL Americans to vote with.

Finally, it must include term limits. I'm a convert on this. Byrd's vote shows he's part of the problem.

BTW, im very religous and hope that everyone recognizes that religion is being severely manipulated by the goppers. They are the enemy of every truly religious person.

[Katherine Brengle]

20. Same old

Every time we lose an important fight, people start talking about leaving the Democrats, and we always come crawling back.

I say, give it a week, and see if this guy is still talking.

(For the record, I agree with a lot of what he said, just laying devil's advocate here.)

[Orangepeel]

22. AUP: Because John McCain is SO much better than John Kerry!

:sarcasm:

Well, ya know. If Tom Kaine talking about his work as a missionary is the straw that breaks the camel's back, then so be it.

Personally, I have no problem with Democratic candidates talking about their faiths (like Obama never talks about faith?). I have problems with them trying to legislate it, but talking about it... whatever. Candidates do better when they are good looking, articulate, get their pictures taken with babies and talk about their faith.

I think that this author has image way too mixed up with policy. He/she is just as dismissive of Kaine because he is boring as he/she is of what was said (assuming anything beyond the missionary intro was actually listened to). No wonder that there is a long list of suggested platform items and a fantasy list of people to support it that makes no sense with the platform.

(edited to add the sarcasm tag after the subject line because you never know who's not gonna get it)

[BiggJawn]

23. McCain? Why in FSM's name WHY?

OK, buh-bye, that was 2 minutes of my life that are gone forever. Would have been just as eddifying to read O'LIElly's rant.

[blm]

27. This is one of those push-poll type essays. He didn't mention ONE NAME

that has had a more positive effect on this nation's recent history of governance than John Kerry has.

[BiggJawn]

84. Again, WHY John McCain?

Only a blind fool would think John McCain would be good for this country.
Anyone who thinks so, you've my invitation to vote for him in '08 when he runs in the primary against Zell and Jebbie.

[blm]

86. The push is FOR McCain - I've heard similar from other supposed Dem pundit

types who act as if McCain is so honorable and how Dems will gladly vote for McCain - it makes me sick, because it's based in lies and MYTHS, not reality.

[BiggJawn]

87. You and me both.

Remember that shit the other year about Our Guy (as of that time undecided) taking on Mac as a running mate?

I would vote for Pat Paulson (FSMRHS) before I'd vote for McCain. If he's such a "Democrat at Heart" then let him just jump the aisle, otherwise, the Pundit Press needs to stop trying to force-feed him to us.

Remember kids, a broken clock is right even twice a day...

[blm]

25. So John McCain is better than Kerry? Feingold better than Kerry? Name ONE

lawmaker who has effected this nation more positively than John Kerry has these past 35 years, Pizzo. Democrat OR Republican.

What a FOCKING KNOW-NOTHING DUMBASS, Pizzo must be.

[paulk]

29. I thought Kaine did a good job

but it's never enough for some

like this Pizzo fellow

a typical backstabbing whiny crybaby leftist

always eager to attack the Democrats

my message for him

go ahead and sit on your hands

the Democratic Party needs people to stand up for it

not stick a knife in it's back

[brooklynite]

30. The issue with last night's Dem response...

(besides the fact that Kaine's left eyebrow is noticeably higher than his right one...)is that it was too bland and too imprecise. Take a minute away from your democratic activist mindset. Ask yourself, "Did the Democratics identify problems the average voter cares about? (I would say "yes"). Now ask yourself, "What did the Democrats promise to do about them? ( I would say "........."). Therein lies the problem. I suspect that nobody here can remember what the Democrats actually promised to do if they ran things, and if the folks here don't remember it, the audience out in Nebraska certainly don't. And unfortunately, as much people increasingly see Bush and co. as a problem, they won't turn to an indistinct choice as an alternative. Kaine talked about different approaches the states had tried, but never identified those (if any) that the national party would trumpet. And to say "we can do better" (which I have been previously told by party leaders was the proposed catchphrase for the '06 election) says nothing about the problems of the past (no matter how good things are, you can always "do better").

I've said before that the Republicans, everyone of them, trumpet a ten word message constantly: cut taxes (wealth) -- strong defense (security) -- family values (faith) -- things ARE getting better (optimism). The policy wonk stuff is trotted out as needed, but is never allowed to obstruct the core message which is short and sweet and easy to remember. The democrats have to have an equally short and consise message to compete.

[samhsarah]

31. you had me until you said you wanted McCain in your party,

and John Kerry was off somewhere with the likes of Tom Delay? How can you group Kerry with Delay? And as far as I can see lately, Kerry has been one of the leaders, not the "herders". And McCain doesn't pander to the religious right, oh puleeze.

[Ally McLesbian]

34. Great article

The DCCC will get my torn-up Democratic voter registration card later this week. I'm going to be an independent until this new party takes off.

[blm]

36. This is a typical push-poll essay pushing Dems towards McCain - it's a

a political tactic.

I can't believe so many of you fell for it. These essays almost always come from someone the "left"....like David Horowitz.

[slay]

39. The worst choice possible was having Kaine deliver the response

I too have HAD IT my friend. The Dems once again wasted national tv time which could have been used to point out all the many, many, many ways in which Bush and his pals have lied to the American people, and betrayed the country. But what happens - holy fuck it's a Mister Roger's look/talk alike and he seems to be saying everything is just fine! Sure maybe things "might could be done better", but it didn't sound like it was important or anything. I'm as disgusted with the Democratic Party now as I have ever been. If they continue on this DLC path of stupidity, then I will have no choice but to abandon the Democratic Party. They seem to want to lose. I guarantee you this guy picked up NO new Republican supporters last night, but pissed of MANY Democrats. Was that the plan DLC? If so, good job (dicks)! Just imagine what would happen if all us intelligent liberals were to up and leave this useless, ineffectual Democratic Party. Intelligent, liberal, open-minded people are the backbone of the Democratic Party and it looks like the party is ready to lose it's backbone - once and for all! I'm "this" close to ended all of my associations with the Democratic Party. I just can not put my work, faith, and strength behind a party that tries so hard to lose. :(

[Lexingtonian]

43. a man a without a Party- and without a clue

We're definitely seeing the Old Left going hysterical these last few days. I think I've seen a dozen of these posts on DU alone.

It's time for this bunch to grow up and figure out they don't own the Democratic Party (and never have, and never will) despite their undiminishing greed for power. Their almost purely economic platform is essentially irrelevant to the Party and The People at large at this point in time. Not that I have love for the Southern Democrat shtick, and think it's silly, but Marxism simply has even less relevance in the political arena at the moment.

As for John McCain and Byron Dorgan as the heart of a new party-what a joke. Joe Lieberman would join that party, btw. And a truth-in-advertising name for this proposed party is The Taking A Time Machine To 1932 Party. Or maybe it's just The Nader Was Right In 2000 Party. Maybe you can even dig up William Jennings Bryant from his grave and resuscitate the Cross Of Gold thang.

It's a political period right now that is essentially defined by social change and social issues. They're more fundamental than economic and managerial issues, the pattern in history is clear, and the Old Left has never been competent or relevant in them. (Nor has the Right, really.) The present fights are between the liberal and conservative wings of the two Parties, their hearts.

Much as I think Kaine wasn't compelling, he did express and outline the great advantage Liberals have in the political arena of being willing and able to accept impurity, dissenters and critics, as long as there is palpable effort to become more wise and informed and reasonable. For moderate Republicans looking to leave the delusional hardline-run fold, telling them that they don't have to fear being hazed and punished for their prior behavior and emotional attachments and lack of matured Democratic perspective is important.

To my reading of the situation of the past few years and the trend of the next few, the Democratic story is that the Party's liberal wing is in ascent to power and tasked with settling the misgovernance and primary social justice issues properly, to what Modernity requires. That's a two or four year job. Once that is done a revived Left and centrist alliance will take over the Party and incrementally implement the economic rights agenda.

Enjoy your dogmatic certainties, narrow perspective, and social conservatism while you can.

[AZBlue]

44. I would NEVER be in any party with McCain. I'm from Arizona. I know what

I'm talking about.

There are many ideas in this post that are wonderful - but they are nothing new, nothing I haven't heard within the Democratic Party. Instead of starting a new party, why not just push those issues within the party that's already established?

[Buck Rabbit]

45. What a bizarre list of names, for in and out..

I'll take even Joe Mo over McCain any day of the week. McCain over Kerry and Clinton, sheesh what a disconnect this guy suffers from.

[nini]

46. We need to define this religion issue and take it back to our side

We let them back us into a corner on this one and if we want to pull those who have bought this argument back into reality we have to get busy NOW. We have let the repubs paint us as a party against religion - which is not true. We do believe a person has the right to believe or NOT and it is to be separate from government. There is a big difference. I prefer we don't have to do this at all as I prefer there no be mention of religion when addressing govt issues, but the reality is they made it an issue and we have to deal with it.


So, instead of running from it, we need to question how the religious right can be so contrary what religious teachings are supposed to promote. I don't know about you, but I never learned that Christ, Allah, Muhammed etc.. were for any of this:

War
Poverty
Raping the environment
Greed
Lying
Putting corporate profits over human issues
Not wanting medical care for every human being
Power grabbing
DOING ANY OF THE ABOVE IN THE NAME OF RELIGION
etc..

They need their hypocricy shoved down their throat. We need to wake up that 20% who have bought their bullshit and show them they can't claim to be a religious person then turn around and support policies that are in direct contrast to what they preach.

[JeffR]

48. Hear hear!

Well said.
:toast:

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. More and more are saying this

yep the time is ripe for a third party

[JeffR]

55. The time is ripe

To change the Democratic Party's direction. It's happened before, it'll happen again. And it's people who make it change. If the leadership of the leaders and the loyalty of the DINOs are wanting, they can and should be expendable.

[WildEyedLiberal]

56. NO fucking "leftist" worth his weight in shit would EVER

Impugn those courageous patriots Al Gore and John Kerry by implying that they are BENEATH John McCain, the Bush Administration's favorite lackey whore.

Stephen Pizzo: another stupid, malcontent "leftist" too blinded by his own sanctimonious self-righteousness and blustering ego to see the fucking truth that is slapping him repeatedly in the face.

[ProSense]

63. I endorse this statement. n/t

[nini]

78. exactly

couldn't have said it better myself.

[quinnox]

57. hopefully this guy will follow through

and it won't be yet another saga of his writing these things every other week when he gets SO mad about the Dems over something and then someone posts them here <yawn>

Damn the drama queens are having a field day lately, at least the mods shut down the other "I'm leaving the party" post in general discussion: politics forum

They should put a new forum: "Leaving or threatening to leave the party essays" for those that give a damn about these things

[JeffR]

59. And call it the Ex-Democrats Forum

Better still, how about a whole new website: Ex-Democratic Underground.

[quinnox]

62. sounds good to me n/t

[mzmolly]

58. My new reply to the whiners:

:nopity:

Does the term "strategy" ring a bell? We are not running for president this week, were trying to reach "middle america" with a guy who is "middle america."

Do we want a southern strategy or NOT?

[WildEyedLiberal]

61. What blows my fucking mind

Is that the writer slanders good liberal Democrats like Kerry and Gore, heaps loads of scorn onto centrist Kaine, and then...

... SAYS HE WANTS TO JOIN A PARTY WITH JOHN MCCAIN.

Aiiieeeeee!!! The HYPOCRISY! MAKE IT STOP! MAKE IT STOP!

[JNelson6563]

69. Crazy isn't it?

I'm sure it makes sense to those who are emotion based "thinkers". I notice they are always the most agile when it comes to mental gymnastics.

Julie

[mzmolly]

75. LOL

How very true!

Hey Julie! :hi:

[mzmolly]

74. Amazing huh?

:crazy:

[whalerider55]

82. good golly, mzmolly

and i thought our democratic southern strategy was to give them sam alito, john roberts, and all three neo-fascist judges they wanted without a whimper.

how's that working out?


i believe in a 50 state strategy. i don't believe in a southern strategy that is gonna affect my kids lives the way alito will.

we could deliver a filibuster proof final vote on alito, but not on a cloture vote.

doesn't that embarass you at all? 25 democrats willing to stand up for women, and my kids? How many democratic women senators voted for cloture? am i missing something here about the picture? how does that fit into any sort of coherent strategy.

sorry. there are just some things you do because they are right, not because they fit into strategy. i keep looking form the dems to show me that.


makes me feel ashamed to be an american, and afraid that we really don't have a two party system.

just my opinion. at least for now, its something that the constitution says we're still entitled to. let's see what alito has to say about that in few years.

and for the record, i'd never join any party that would have john mccain part of it.

now lowell weiker, that's a different story.

whalerider

[mzmolly]

83. True, we need all 50 states, but we haven't been courting southern states.

Further, WE did not GIVE them Roberts and Alito. Bush - Ralph Nader and the Republicans did that.

As to how it's working out, I would ask those threatening to LEAVE that question? WHO do we want nominating judges to replace the next Supreme court retirees? We could end up with SIX conservatives on the court if we don't fight like heck for representation.

As for being embarrassed about "the magnificent 15," I'm not really embarrassed, I'm a bit angry frankly. BUT, I do realize that I disagree with some Democrats from time to time, and I also realize that a filibuster would only have pro-longed the inevitable. WE are in the minority and Alito was going to the supreme court - regardless. I felt empowered that the MAJORITY of Democrats in the senate fought to the end. I personally won't let them battle in vein.

What we need to do is make sure that Dems are in a position to DO something this time next year. We need to take back the house/senate not leave the party dangit!

Lastly Alito got more NO votes than any previous supreme court nominee in history if I recall correctly.

People who left the party were "warned" in 2000 and 2004 that the supreme court was at stake. Now THEY are the ones bitching the loudest that Democrats didn't do X, Y Z. Pathetic/hypocritical BS if you ask me.

As for Weicker, he's got the right idea - challenge the "party poopers" from within and clean the damn house!

:hi:

[whalerider55]

85. thoughtful response, but...

w ehave been courting southern dems- Clinton for Pres, Al Gore as VP, the DLC is dominated by southereners and remains the dominator of discourse in the party, so i have to disagree.

while i support a 50 state strategy, i think money and time are much better spent solidifying the east (get snowe, sunnunu and collins the hell out, certainly do-able; Lieberman as well); tightening the rust belt (if we can't take ohio and begin to tighten our grip in Michigan and the like) and invest heavily in the populist west, where democratic progressive ideals resonate more and more strongly... then the south, with 120 elecotoral votes, can keep its republican fundie base.

and nader didn't lose florida. corruption lost florida for gore. knowing that, how did we manage to allow a replay in ohio this year?

and mzmolly, you assume that people who left the party in 2000 and 2004 didn't vote democratic in those elections; you'd really need to back that up with some hard data to convince me. everyone i know who left out of frustration and disgust held their nose and voted for democratic candidates, despite their belief that the infrastructure of the democratic party is the place where progressive dollars are welcome, but progressive ideas go to die.

As for pathetic/hypocritical bullshit; i can assure you that i spent years inside the democratic party raising the same ideas i'm raising outside of it now. they didn't listen then, and apparently they won't listen now.

i volunteered in my first democratic campaign in 1964, when i was 9 years old, for a peace candidate running for congress. i spent 38 years as a democrat, a committeeman, working on all levels as a proponent for what i believed to be democratic ideas and ideals.

in the end, there are simply some things you do because they are right, whther you are in the majority or not. it is called the courage of your convictions. i saw very little of eityher in the alito debacle. holding the majority of dems on a vote that defecting dems mooted the day before isn't a signal event. it is a pathetic symptom.

i say debacle, because the wedge issue was right there to be addressed, and the dems couldn't wrap their mouths and spines around it. the imperial presidency. the imperial presidency. the imperial presidency. roe, as absolutely critical as it is, was not the winning issue here. the dialogue was around the imperial presidency- i believe that even byrd would have conceeded that, or should at least have had to explain his vote in that context.


that blows my mind.

btw, check clarence thomases totals, and you find they were much closer than alito. and there was so much less at stake back then. so muc less.

whalerider

[formernaderite]

67. "Democrats resisted pandering to the biblically lobotomized."

My favorite line.... I don't think we need a new "new" third party...what's wrong with the greens? And I certainly don't want to join a party that has John McCain in it.

[Greyhound]

72. Bad choice of individuals (McCain FGS?), but the platform is solid

and appeals to me at least. I'm thinking Hackett and other political "newbies" should be recruited. One question though, where is the money for this going to come from? Fighting the repulicrats will take a ton of it.

[derby378]

88. My response: GET OFF YOUR ASS

We can become the Democratic Party if we put our minds to it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=306477&mesg_id=306477