I fucking despise racism!

[lonestarnot]

If these people, no matter the race hates someone because of their culture, skin color etc., they should be drafted into a national eduation program created to teach them how to tolerate, love and forced to confront their ignorance.

[ContraBass Black]

1. Care to be specific?

Which people?

[lonestarnot]

2. Any people, all people who are racist.

[DaveJ]

13. Does this have something to do with the CNN show

...that's on now?

Anyway I think it's a good idea to focus on racism now since it's directing attention to red states.

[ContraBass Black]

18. What CNN show would that be?

[DaveJ]

22. Paula Zahn Now

There's an hour long meeting type format... it's almost over now.

(BTW, it's in Beaumont, TX)

[MrSlayer]

3. You can't teach tolerance.

Not to someone who just hates for the sake of hate.

[lonestarnot]

6. Well we can certainly fucking try. I could do it! And I think it is mandatory

that we do, and for the ones that are beyond any hope, they should be given a lobotomy. LOL

[MrSlayer]

20. These would be some huge classes for sure.

And a whole lot of lobotomies. Good luck in your worthy endeavor.

[lonestarnot]

23. At first glance I thought you had the answer! HUG classes! Everyone

forced to HUG that which they hate!

[rebel with a cause]

31. Are you speaking of prejudice or racism?

Prejudice is the feeling of dislike, distrust, or hatred of someone or something that is different than oneself. In some cases a person can even be prejudice against those like themselves and identify with another group other than their own. Most of us have some type of prejudice. Most of us here are prejudice against right wingers, but no matter what we say, we can not be considered racist for this.

Racism is when one acts on their prejudice against another group based on race, creed or color. It is not only a feeling, it is when those prejudices are acted upon. It can be anything from insulting words all the way to violence. But without the actions (even words), a person is considered only prejudice no matter how deeply they feel about others. Some say that only the group that is in control can be racist. In other words, a white man can be a racist but a minority cannot because they are not in the group with the power to control others. So just who do you want to do all these things too?

Trust me, I went to college six years to learn things like this. Now they may have changed all these ideas in the last four years?:shrug:

[BoneDaddy]

48. I know you are joking

but there are some kooks out there who really think compassion can be legislated.

If you try, you have become as bad as them.

[lonestarnot]

56. I taught court ordered group therapy for domestic violence perps

and believe that they make a difference in some cases. See the camps are already in place. I'm not kidding, nor am I trying to legislate morality.

[BoneDaddy]

70. Domestic violence

is one thing, but legislating it for "everyone" I think crosses the line.

[lonestarnot]

76. We have a public education system don't we?

[malaise]

80. They were taught to hate n/t

[sam sarrha]

4. good fences make great neighbors..... LINK>

http://www.mcc.org/gallery/04_09/photo_09.html

did they steal that olive tree...??

[cali]

11. Sorry, I'm gonna

call you on your choice of post here. Are you saying that Israel = racism? Because it would be easy to take that message away from your post.

[sam sarrha]

19. certainly NOT, the Israeli people by a vast margin do not support the treatment of the Palestinians,

but the political leaderships agenda might be considered such, if their treatment of them walks like a duck, have you heard Jimmy's discussions of the subject.. there are archives on NPR of in depth discussions of his book and why he wrote it

[cali]

29. I'm reading Carter's book now

And one thing he's made clear repeatedly is that his application of the apartheid label is not because he thinks what's happening under the occupation is due to racism. Ergo your posting of the picture of the wall, is hardly in keeping with President Carter's analysis.

There's certainly racism in Israel against the Arab minority, but it is not institutionalized racism. There's racism everywhere. In this country, in European nations, in Arab nations, etc.

[sam sarrha]

30. self delete..

[Purveyor]

5. I don't know what is worse. A racist that admits he/she is one or

a racist that has been 'educated/trained' to mask their true feelings when necessary...

I've encounter some of the most 'anti-racist' people that, when the first layer of skin is peeled back, turn out to be some of the worst racists when it comes to defending 'their own'.

[Lucky Luciano]

7. Love the subject line....

but people have the right to be assholes...and we certainly don't need concentration camps for assholes.

[Az]

8. Then don't listen to this

http://audio.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/322.mp3

Its a podcast of this past weekends This American Life. The first major story on it details how a Muslim family was destroyed in a small town USA due to differences.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

9. You can't force tolerance onto someone

That would simply breed further hate.

And unfortunately, everyone has their own intolerance, no matter how small. Humans are humans.

[Az]

You can educate

Which is not forcing. It takes time though.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

12. However, the OP is advocating forced education

It will never work. The education should start at home and in the school system, and begin with children as soon as they can talk.

[lonestarnot]

15. Yes forced education! FORCED! Then either give them a lobotomy or

move them to a secluded island so they can be racist among themselves. heh heh heh.

[Az]

27. Cut off a person's options and they will resist by other means

The reason we have a culture war going on in the US right now is because the religious right and their associates feel their way of life is being pressed into oblivion by progressive liberal ideas. And they are right. And the result is they are fighting back as if their life depended on it.

Just because you are right doesn't mean you can impose your position.

[lonestarnot]

41. Imposition by ostracizing by the majority unless you feel these racists are the majority.

[Az]

50. Remember

Whatever you do to others can be done to you.

Social dynamics are rather complex. Just because those on the cutting edge get and internalize new concepts doesn't mean everyone else gets them at the same time. As society learns and adapts to new moral understandings old notions slowly fall by the way. But it doesn't happen all at once.

Once an idea reaches a certain density in a society it begins to shove out other older ideas. But there can be a struggle. If there are cultural or religious notions that bind a group to a particular moral concept it can become quite a sticking point in such social development. And it can even precipitate a social backlash in the case where the cutting edge advances further than social momentum can keep up with.

[lonestarnot]

51. So you're saying a mandatory hug fest is out of the question?

[Az]

71. Ohhhh!!!

You've been talking about a mandatory hug fest all this time!!! Well thats a horse of a different color!

[Odin2005]

79. I don't want reeducation camps, thank you.

We arn't the USSR...

[shanti]

57. hate is taught

STOP THE HATE!

[lonestarnot]

60. but I fucking hate bushitler!

[shanti]

73. in that

you are excused! :hi:

[TahitiNut]

10. "drafted"? Did you say "drafted "??

:rofl:

Seriously, I doubt most of them can be forced to abdicate such obsessive ignorance. There are personality disorders that are effectively untreatable.

[lonestarnot]

16. Yes agree, so racists begone!

[Raskolnik]

14. Wow. Taking a stand against racism on a progressive messageboard. What a brave stance.

Perhaps you'd also like to take a controversial stand against drowning sacks of puppies?

[lonestarnot]

17. Are you saying there are no racists on this board? LOL

[Raskolnik]

24. Do you expect anyone to disagree with the position that racism is bad?

People will disagree with your remedy, because its rather ridiculous, but your general statement of displeasure with racists is about as controversial (and interesting) as stating that you don't like Bush.

[lonestarnot]

26. No. I expect disagreement re MANDATORY education to eliminate it.

and the government sponsored program should definitely include gay people!

[Raskolnik]

28. Then change your thread title.

Instead of patting yourself on the back for being wonderful enough to dislike racism, just make your case for mandatory education and see how far that gets you.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[piedmont]

35. which gets you a big ol' YAWN.

would you like a medal of freedom instead?

[lonestarnot]

36. I'm not looking to "get anything." WTF...And I'm not advocating freedom for

racists, but freedom from them.

[piedmont]

43. Kinda looks like you're looking for a pat on the back. Or some sort of attention.

As somebody already pointed out, racists are about as popular around here as puppy-killers. And your only content seems to be "I sure hate me some racists! Let's round 'em all up!" Whatever.

[lonestarnot]

47. What's your cure?

[rebel with a cause]

32. mandatory identity reprogramming (this is what you are suggesting)

would work about as well as democracy building at the end of a gun.

[lonestarnot]

34. I don't believe it is identity, perhaps but that would be the hardcore racists.

[rebel with a cause]

38. My graduate paper was partly on the forming of identity.

And when you want to change the way a person sees themselves and the way they identify with the world around them, that would be changing a part of their identity. (I believe) The thing I was saying that that would not work is making the change mandatory . You cannot force someone to really change unless they want to. The trick is to make them want to. It can be done, but whether anyone can truly change what is in their sub conscious is questionable. Sometimes the most we can hope for is to convince the person that it is in their best interest to control their prejudice and not let it become racism. Of course, covert racism is a scary thing also.

Oh well, enough from "little miss know it all". me. B-)

[lonestarnot]

39. who said you were little miss know it all...? hmmmf to them.

Hey I still think that a mandatory program should be created. With enough inculcation of anti racism, no one would want to be that, even subconsciously.

[rebel with a cause]

44. I am self labeled one because

I am the perfect "know it all" due to the fact that I know I am one. ;-)

[lonestarnot]

49. oh, I see.

heh

[rebel with a cause]

53. Actually, I have accepted the fact

that I come across like one, although I have low self esteem. It is a family trait, but I am one of the few in the family that realizes we do it. See, that is what makes me the perfect one. :sarcasm:

Seriously; Consider rethinking your plan and change your proposed camps to be for children of all races. Consider the influence that learning about the "others" that they are being taught to hate, fear, distrust and what this would mean to these children. I have read about camps like this in Israel with Jewish and Palestinian youths, and in other parts of the world were there is such conflicts. There is little we can do to change what is, but we can hopefully change what will be.

[lonestarnot]

55. Hey I hate, as I hate bushitler, nothing wrong with hate.

I hate evil. Children should be educated re racism daily. But still think "camps" as you call the suggested mandatory racism educational program is a good idea. Open discussion, confrontation, inspection, prying open to the depths of its evil is not going to damage already damaged goods.

[rebel with a cause]

64. Okay, but make it

a program to voluntarily confront the darker side of who you are. Americans love self help programs, and really we are the only ones who can really help ourselves when it comes to whats buried inside us. Others can educate us and help us to understand, but unless we are willing to see it, we will not change. Like the poster down the board, I do not believe in forcing our will on others as long as what they are thinking (and even saying) is not hurting anyone. I say this even though my children were tormented by children of racist when they were growing up.

[lonestarnot]

66. Our judicial system does it daily with the exception of Sat. Sun and holidays.

[rebel with a cause]

68. And how well is that working?

I worked in social services, and if you are talking about court ordered programs, I didn't see much success with them. Oh well, go on with your bad self, I have got to get off and hit the hay.

Midnight, one more night without sleeping.
Darkness oer the city come creeping
Green door what's the secret you're keeping. :bounce: sing along.

[uppityperson]

54. yeah and there are never any topics here stating dislike of Mrbush either, right?

[lonestarnot]

61. sorry but I hate that fucker! LOL

It's not due to the color of his skin.

[uppityperson]

67. hating someone because

they are a jerk is fine. It amazes me that people feel the need to reply, just to say they don't have anything to add to the discussion.

[ContraBass Black]

21. Puppy killing is significantly less popular than racisim.

Especially if they're cute.

[Raskolnik]

25. Let's take a poll and see.

[Xithras]

37. Ah yes, re-education camps. How quaint.

I believe those were tried in Stalin's USSR, MAO's China, and Vietnam after the north won. They didn't work in any of those nations.

You cannot forcibly change someones opinion, and to be perfectly honest, if this were tried you could count on me being among the "terrorists" fighting to put an end to it. I'm a free speech absolutist. These people have a right to be offensive, and NO government ANYWHERE has the right to dicate what you can think in your head. The moment we get a government that DOES believe it posesses that right, I pray to whatever gods exist that the people of this nation have the intelligence to rise up, throw them out of office, and kick the SOB's out of the country.

[lonestarnot]

40. "offensive" More like fucking murders, thugs, cross burners, bedwetting fuckups.

[piedmont]

42. Murder is already a crime. So are most thuggish behaviors.

You can't make people believe what they don't want to. You'll just harden them.

[lonestarnot]

46. Institutionalized racism is also against the law, but it still goes on.

You are a pessimist. I discriminate against pessimists.

[Odin2005]

81. Your's is the best post in the thread

I may not what the racists say but I will defend thier rights to say it. A free an open society can only exist when there is absolute freedom of speech, and that includes the speech of assholes. The nanny-statist PC Thought Police can kiss my ass, you do not have a right NOT be offended. You shouldn't ban Neo-Nazi protests you show the Neo-Nazi asshats who is boss by having an even larger counter-protest.

[aikoaiko]

45. I don't know whats scarier: the racist right or the leftist thought police

:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

52. Comforting that you think education is equivalent to thought police.

[GreenZoneLT]

59. Education is when you read a book

"Drafting" people into indoctrination school is thought police.

[lonestarnot]

63. Oh reading a book is the ONLY form of education? hmmmf not.

[aikoaiko]

65. May you be the first student, lonestarnot.

[lonestarnot]

77. Always a student aikoaiko

[rollopollo]

78. Dicey Issue Going Forward

I think the poster's intentions were good. But much as I wish racism were a vestige of the past, when it comes down to it, I fear my government more than I do racists. I don't know if its because I've developed coping mechanisms for the latter or that for the things that matter most to me, I've encountered less of it than used to be the case. But the government's potential to harm is far more pernicious. For example, we know now that the FBI was involved in the assasination of Malcolm X, and while they didn't commit the deed themselves, their intelligence proved invaluable to the Nation of Islam. Ideally we'd get rid of both racism and government oppression. But in the case of "thought crimes", we must make a tradeoff. Before we cast it aside as an unlikely Orwellian scenario, we should note that Europe already has such laws on the books. People have been jailed for the crime of holding an errant opinion.

Ultimately, government must not be the final arbiter of truth or morality. Laws are meant to protect the innocent but minimize the loss of free will. For example, lying (outside a courtoom) and adultery are immoral, but there are not laws against it, and there probably shouldn't be. This is true for race as well; much needs to be done, but can be done, without allowing the government to define and enforce a code of behavior.

[GreenZoneLT]

58. What a splendid idea

Gulags for thought crime. THAT'll make everyone love each other.

[lonestarnot]

62. Ever heard of court ordered therapy?

That would be AFTER the crime has been committed.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

72. you seem to be identifying the thought as the crime

if someone commits a crime based on hate...then therapy might not be a bad idea...probably won't work, but it could. However, if I simply think or verbal advocate race superiority (making me a raging racist) am I guilty of a crime? As long as I am not inciting violence then I would say the answer is no. Distasteful, but not criminal. And if you outlaw one thought or speech...what comes next???

sP

[Blue-Jay]

69. You've taken a very brave stance on this message board.

Brave indeed.

Inspiring, even.

[SmokingJacket]

74. While I agree with your sentiment....

the whole notion of a "drafting people into a national educational program" gives me the heebie jeebies!

We can legislate against discrimination and acts of racial violence/threats, and eventually people will learn. I have great hope for the next generations, actually.

[Virginia Dare]

75. The powers that be need racism...

it is a wonderful tool for dividing and conquering us. Keep the masses ignorant and all.

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

82. Yea !!!!!

I say we grab the torches, guns, and go round up the racists and have ourselves a lynching!
:sarcasm:

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

83. ROFL Have you seen the South Park Tolerance Camp episode?

Camp Warden: Welcome to tolerance camp. You are here because you would not accept people's differences. Because you refuse to accept the life choices of your fellow man. Well those days are now over. Here you vill verk, every hour of every day until you submit to being tolerant of everybody. Here, intolerance... will not be tolerated.

.......

Devitzen's Tolerance Camp, black-and-white footage, day. The kids are in a large room the size of an airport hangar. All of them have been doing arts and crafts, as they are dirty with crayons and paint. Each column of tables is being patroled by a guard.]
Camp Warden: Today we wll be using the fingerpaint! You vill make a painting that shows people of different races and sexual orientations getting along. Figerpaint. Figerpaint! You vill not make any distinction between people of different colors! People with different sexual preferences! You vill accept everyone! What are you fingerpainting?!
Kyle: Uh, a bear?
Camp Warden: Ein bear?! Und bear has nothing to do with accepting people of different races!
Kyle: Eh I, I don't know what else to paint.
Camp Warden: Start over! You will fingerpaint what we tell you! GO! Faster. Faster! Faasterr.
Kyle: Aaaa!
Camp Warden: Faster! Are you done?! What is it?! What have you done?!
Kyle: People of all colors and creeds holding hands beneath a rainbow!
Camp Warden: GOOD! That wasn't so hard, was it? NOW DO IT AGAIN! Faster! Faasterr!

..........

Devitzen's Tolerance Camp, black-and-white footage, day. The kids are now in a different room quietly making macaroni pictures on the floor, but they are all fatigued. The guard walks up to a soldier on a catwalk and talks with him.]
Camp Warden: Everything in order?
Camp Soldier: Yes, mein Führer. Ve are making the prisoners make macaroni pictures that illustrate diversity in the verkplace.
Camp Warden: Eh-xcellent!
Kyle: Oh.
Stan: Kyle. Kyle, you have to keep making your macaroni pictures.
Kyle: Can't... glue... any... more .
Stan: The guards are coming, Kyle. Glue. Glue, damn you!
Camp Warden: Take this one away. He is done for.
Stan: Butters!
Butters: No more... arts and crafts...


A very juvenile and intellectually sloth solution to an extremely complicated problem. I'm sure MLK had he been around long enough gotten around to advocating mandatory education camps for those that did not comply with his will :sarcasm:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

84. Racism is obviously bad, but mandatory re-education is unconstitutional.