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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 05:41 AM
Original message
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JESUS
Fundamentalist Christians send me hate mail. Religious zealots have banned my last book. Along with meditation, yoga, and sex for fun, the powers-that-be at the Vatican has declared astrology to be dangerous to your spiritual health.

All of these people would no doubt be shocked if they learned that Jesus Christ is one of the Main High Dudes in my pantheon of gods. They seem to believe that people like me -- goddess-worshiping tantric sufi Qabalist Buddhist pagans who hang around with zen trickster witches and espouse a socialist libertarian political philosophy -- couldn't possibly have an intimate relationship with the cosmic hero they claim to own. They must think they have commandeered the trademark to one of the sweetest avatars in history!

But I do have an intimate relationship with Jesus. How could I not? He was a champion of women's rights, a threat to the established political order, and a radical spiritual activist who worked outside religious institutions. The dude owned nothing and was a passionate advocate for the poor and underprivileged. He was uncompromisingly opposed to violence and war. Besides that, he was a master of love and he devoted his life to serving the Divine Intelligence. I want to be like him when I grow up!

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle," he allegedly said, "than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." That's a pretty clear statement of his position towards plutocratic accumulators of property and wealth.

"Love your enemies," he said, "do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." How any militarist promoting global arms sales and pre-emptive war could claim an affinity with Jesus is incomprehensible.

Happy Birthday, Jesus!

-Rob Brezny
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Winter Festival: A Mystery Thinly Veiled
"Festivals are not merely the commemoration of historical events or personalities. They are in and of themselves, each year, spiritual events carrying a significance that grows and deepens with the developing phases of human evolution."

— Rudolf Steiner

http://www.chiron-communications.com/winterfestival.html
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. thanks for the link! I'll check it out!
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Try not to mention that quotation of his to the owners of America on Wall Street.
They're really committed to the lie that vast accumulations of wealth are God's reward.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. k&r
Happy birthday Jesus! :party:
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Just remember that it works both ways.
Love your enemies," he said, "do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."

Jesus call Chstians lefties to loce the facsists just as much as he calls the Fundies to loce the Gays and liberals.

Undoubtedly hard, but that is what Jesus would do.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Jesus tells us to love the fascists as he tells fundies to love gays & liberals?
As if the groups mentioned are comparable.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. No not necessarily
But He calls us to love the rich man and the leper, the tax gatherer and the poor, the pharisee and the gentile.

Not what they stand for and not at the expense of our silence, because we are called to love justice. But the Gospels are emphatic that Jesus loved everyone (Love your enemies, pray for those who perecute you). And however much one might have issues with Paul....the epistles echo the refrain...Love One another.

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. would the fascist still be fascist if they loved us? because love also requires respect.
i think not.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. I never said they would. Did I?
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shaniqua6392 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent post!
It is a good time of the year to hear words like this to remind us of how wonderful His words are. Those who use religion for their political gain do not really understand His message. Those who accumulate wealth, especially the war profiteers, will not see the kingdom of heaven. Those who turn a blind eye to all that our government does in the hopes that electing them will prevent abortions or gay marriage are not really Christians either. Thanks for your post. Have a wonderful holiday and a happy new year!!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. and a happy new year to you too!!
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. Agreed
Jesus was about the evolution of human consciousness. Similar figures from other cultures had the same kind of "awakening" all over the world. Jesus was about transcending tribal affiliation as he promoted the equality of all. He broke racial, ethnic, class boundaries and was symbolized by an opening of the heart to all humanity.

Whether he existed in reality is of no consequence. He is symbolic of human growth, understanding and love.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. Not to flame you in any way, but .....






.... the title of your thread reminds me of the part of Full Metal Jacket

where the recruits sang Happy Birthday to Jesus.







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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'd totally forgotten that! Oh and this is for you...
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanx. I love it. LOL.



He's really got talent after all.






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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. my kids love ir! Hehehe
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
13. A socially responsible long-haired Jewish peacenik?
What's not to like? Except according to the fundies, to love jesus you need to hate certain groups of people and drive a big SUV and belong to a "restricted" country club. Jesus didn't turn people away so it's up to the fundies to turn them away. :sarcasm:

Even the Nazis proudly claimed "Gott mit uns!" (God is with us). To which the best response would be "Oh yeah, we got gloves!". :silly:




Yes Happy Birthday Jesus. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. And I'm sure they'd love to know that
it was astrology that led people to believe that Jesus was the son of god in the first place... there's strong evidence that the 'magi' were persian astrologers who were only following signs in the stars that led them to the little boy in the manger. :)
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. I can't see how any TRUE Christain could be a Republican
If you follow the teachings of Christ you would have to be a liberal.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. I know of at least two pagans raised Catholic who still take communion
A standard response to "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior?" is "I accept him as one of the most important male avatars of the Great Mother. Will that do?"
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I LOVE IT!
I'll have to use that!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. Er, aren't you about five months early?
(That's assuming he was even born, and there's no real evidence of that.)

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Are you REALLY missing the point?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Probably, I do that sometimes.
Ignore me, it's safer!

:D

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. aw, but I like you. :)
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sillyphoenix Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. oops... duped myself... delete
Edited on Wed Dec-20-06 08:45 PM by sillyphoenix
delete
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sillyphoenix Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Aren't we all a couple months LATE?
IIRC, there was some research that pinned JC's birthday around the first week of October. In which case, happy BELATED birthday, Jesus! :party:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks for the post helderheid
Happy Birthday Jesus!

Kicked and recommended
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. So honor his actual Birthday
Not the Institutionalized take over of his birthday. :evilgrin:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. or his spirit any damn time but perhaps most especially when the fundies
are doing the commercialized thang.
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josewelder Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. Beautiful
That was a beautiful post. I also hold Jesus in high esteem. And as someone mentioned, I also receive communion in the Catholic Church. I do not receive communion because I believe in the Church, rather I receive communion because I believe in the teachings of Jesus. I have had all sorts of arguments with people about the communion issue, I even had to stage a walk out in my Catholic elementary when they said I could not receive communion as I was not baptized Catholic. However I have found that most logical people accept my reasoning. To me receiving communion is an affiliation with God. Regardless of the Church it is my demonstration to him/her(or whatever it may be), in my belief that he is an all powerful and BENEVOLENT God, that I am on his side and happy to commune with his ideas, the ideas of Jesus, not the church. My Grandmother once told me that nothing else matters as long as you are good and try to be good. Her parting words to me were "be good". Aside form all the BS that people read into the teachings of Jesus, he was good man and only strived to be good. As far as I am concerned that is a high goal and a righteous one.

Happy birthday to a all around GOOD guy.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Thank you for sharing that and WELCOME TO DU!
:hi:
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
33. Happy birthday, Rabbi, even though it probably really is about
April. (Those shepherds watching their flocks is a dead giveaway.) :)
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
34. Was Jesus born on December 25?
Was Jesus born on December 25?

Was Jesus born on December 25? There is no evidence for this date. So then, who decided that Jesus' birth would be celebrated on that date? The early Christian church did not celebrate Jesus' birth. It wasn't until A.D. 440 that the church officially proclaimed December 25 as the birth of Christ. This was not based on any religious evidence but on a pagan feast. Saturnalia was a tradition inherited by the Roman pagans from an earlier Babylonian priesthood. December 25 was used as a celebration of the birthday of the sun god. It was observed near the winter solstice.

The apostles in the Bible predicted that some Christians would adopt pagan beliefs to enable them to make their religion more palatable to the pagans around them. Therefore, some scholars think the church chose the date of this pagan celebration to interest them in Christianity. The pagans were already used to celebrating on this date.

The Bible itself tells us that December 25 is an unlikely date for His birth. Palestine is very cold in December. It was much too cold to ask everyone to travel to the city of their fathers to register for taxes. Also the shepherds were in the fields (Luke 2:8-12). Shepherds were not in the fields in the winter time. They are in the fields early in March until early October. This would place Jesus' birth in the spring or early fall. It is also known that Jesus lived for 33.5 years and died at the feast of the Passover, which is at Easter time. He must therefore have been born six months the other side of Easter - making the date around the September/October time frames.

Other evidence that December 25 is the wrong date for the birth of Jesus comes from early writings. Iraneus, born about a century after Jesus, notes that Jesus was born in the 41st year of the reign of Augustus. Since Augustus began his reign in the autumn of 43 B.C., this appears to substantiate the birth of Jesus as the autumn of 2 B.C. Eusebius (A.D. 264-340), the "Father of Church History," ascribes it to the 42nd year of the reign of Augustus and the 28th from the subjection of Egypt on the death of Anthony and Cleopatra. The 42nd year of Augustus ran from the autumn of 2 B.C. to the autumn of 1 B.C. The subjugation of Egypt into the Roman Empire occurred in the autumn of 30 B.C. The 28th year extended from the autumn of 3 B.C. to the autumn of 2 B.C. The only date that would meet both of these constraints would be the autumn of 2 B.C.

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jesus-born-on-december-25-faq.htm

The year of Jesus' birth

Jesus was born while Herod the Great was still living (Matthew 2:1). Wise men appeared in Jerusalem asking about "one who has been born king of the Jews?" Of course, this upset Herod, who had been given the title "King of the Jews" by the Roman Senate. Herod talked to the wise men secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared (Matthew 2:7). The wise men then journeyed to Bethlehem and found Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in a house (Matthew 2:11) and they bowed down and worshiped Jesus.

When the wise men did not return to give Herod a report, "Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the wise men.  He was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the wise men" (Matthew 2:16).

This tells us that Jesus may have been born two years before the appearance of the wise men and the death of Herod. Herod died the spring of 4 B.C. (according to the Jewish historian, Josephus). Let's assume that the star appeared at Jesus' birth. Let's also assume that Herod was already close to death when the wise men appeared. It was the custom in ancient Israel to count the years of one's age from the date of conception - in other words, when a child is born he is one year old until his first birthday (this is still a practice in some oriental cultures). Therefore, Herod actually killed the children one year old and under according to the way that age is calculated today. This would mean that Jesus had to have been born in 6 B.C. (if Jesus was one year old) or 5 B.C. (if Jesus was under one year and Herod was just being extra careful).

This date for Jesus' birth fits with other Biblical data such as Jesus being "about thirty years old" when He began his ministry (Luke 3:23). From evidence given to us in John 2:20 about the construction of the temple, we know Jesus' ministry began in A.D. 26. Counting forward from 6 B.C. to A.D. 26 (one year has to be subtracted because there is no year zero) would make Jesus 31 years old when he began his ministry -- that is, about thirty years old. Counting forward from 5 B.C. to A.D. 26 would make Jesus 30 years old when he began his ministry. The birth years of 5 or 6 B.C. also fit with the best date for the crucifixion, that is A.D. 30. Personally I opt for the 5 B.C. date, because I assume the wise men would want to come at once and the time for a journey from Babylon to Jerusalem takes only four months.

When was Jesus born? Nothing is absolutely certain, because we are dealing with implications and assumptions, but a good guess from the Scriptures and history is September 29, 5 B.C.

http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm

JESUS' REAL BIRTHDAY

Most biblical scholars and preachers readily admit that they know Christ was not born on December 25th. However, they claim that this day is as good as any other to celebrate the birth of Jesus, despite the fact that it was originally a pagan celebration called Saturnalia which commemorated the birth of the sun god.

God had this to say about appropriating pagan methods of worship and trying to honor Him with them:
DEUTERONOMY 12:28 "Observe and obey all these words which I command you, that it may go well with you and your children after you forever, when you do what is good and right in the sight of the LORD your God. 29 When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, 30 take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.' 31 "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. 32 Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. (NKJV)

Few know that there is a biblical way to determine when the Messiah was actually born. We can do this by relating the conception and birth of Jesus (Yeshua) with the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/birthday.htm

Another point is that Joseph and Mary had to find shelter in a barn or some other kind of animal shelter like a cave or grotto because the inns were full (verse 7). This indicates that the pilgrims from around the world had begun to arrive in Jerusalem and surrounding towns. Thus, the fall festival season had already commenced. There would have been no similar influx of pilgrims in December.

Also, as the shepherds were still in the fields with their flocks (verse 8), Jesus' birth could not have occurred during the cold-weather months of winter. Sheep were normally brought into centrally located pens or corrals as the weather turned colder and the rainy season began, especially at night. If this were not significant, it begs the question, "Why would Luke have mentioned it in such detail if not to convey a time reference?"

<snip>

Why is it important that we know when Jesus was born? We certainly do not use this knowledge to celebrate His birthday—He tells us to commemorate His death, not His birth (I Corinthians 11:23-26). The true date, however, destroys the entire foundation of the Christmas holiday. It also points to the proper time of His ministry, crucifixion and resurrection, helping to disprove the Good Friday—Easter Sunday tradition also. Lastly, and maybe most importantly, it renews our faith in God's Word—that it is true, verifiable and historically accurate.

In addition, we should know even these details so that we can provide common-sense reasons for our beliefs. We live in a world of compromise and confusion—especially in the realm of religion—and thus we must study and follow what is true so we will not be fooled by what is counterfeit. The Christmas season promotes a lie concerning the date of the birth of Jesus Christ. We need to do more than reject the world's explanation; we need to know, prove and follow what is true.

http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/ARTB/k/568/When-Was-Jesus-Born.htm
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
35. To your own soul be true...
and find your own place in Heaven. Maybe Jesus is there.
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