"The intelligence was deeply flawed. . ." another campaign step by HIllary

[ChairmanAgnostic]

Frankly, I am sick and tired of oh so careful pols explaining their own lack of curiosity, gullibility, and fear of being accused soft on terra saying "the intelligence was deeply flawed" Hillary just joined many other Dems and GOPers saying precisely the same damned thing.

Two problems with this.
a) it is a lame excuse, especially when she is one of 100 top elected national figures, WHOSE JOB IT IS TO INVESTIGATE, CONFIRM AND QUESTION while insuring that our constitution is protected from enemies from without and within. Hillary, you failed miserably in keeping your oath of office. apologize. Simply blaming intel does not cut it.

b) It is also untrue.
It is not the case that intel was deeply flawed; to the contrary, the intel was what it was. Hell, State's own tiny, underfunded and incredibly accurate intel department repeately raised flags of warning - which were ignored by the likes of Hillary and other war-mongerers now looking for cover. NO, the real problem was that perfectly good intel was sent cold and unsupervised into the Office of Special Projects, Darth Cheney's gift to the American soldier in IraqNam. Stoving piping is the act of dealing with data in a way that keeps others from seeing the big picture. Many corporations do this, mainly because local power despots like to appear important, not realizing that it hurts the entire company. Sometimes it is done on purpose, like when OSP was involved in it. Combined with cherry picking, only the intel they wanted out actually got out. Any qualifiers, and serious questions and any contrary data was stomped on like a Burmese python infesting a Florida Swamp.

So Hillary, by stating this on boredcast TV last night, you have in so many words, announced your candidacy, and your intent to correct your prior errors without admitting a mistake. So sorry, but that won't cut it. You don't even have the balls to admit that you were wrong and that you failed to uphold your oath of office. No, instead, you triangulate and obfuscate: "If I knew then, what I know now. . . " LOOK, WOMAN! IT WAS YOUR JOB TO FIND OUT. You have shown yourself to be self-promoting, playing it ultra-safe, and incapable of admitting a mistake, always looking at how an issue polls, rather than do your duty. Shame on you.

[bryant69]

1. She will have a hard time getting away from the Iraq issue

Nobody likes her position on Iraq, and not without reason.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[efhmc]

2. Agreed. Huge Hillary supporter at one point but she and her run for

the nomination are flawed. She is bright and she is articulate but no Bill Clinton and that is the type of candidate we need now.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Bill Clinton?

How about instead we get a candidate that doesn't look at the Middle Class like a concentration camp victim looks at a roast turkey? His pandering to the Predator Class at the expense of the Middle was a sight to behold - but it did earn him a spot at Poppy Bush's table.

[mod mom]

12. I agree, his support of NAFTA et al lead to help destroy the middle class.

Bill Clinton may be charismatic but was no friend to the middle class.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I go to a lot of different boards,

many not political, but politics inevitably surfaces from time to time. Today, one poster was asking about politics and mentioned their dislike for Hillary-I am not sure of their political persuasion, but I think they are liberal, for they have talked favorably about Gore and An Inconvenient Truth.

I don't see her using the "flawed intelligence" excuse as raising her up in the eyes of people, and from my online experience, I don't see much support for her now in the brief political posts made on non political boards.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

4. How come _I_ knew all this before the war

but the people who have _real_ access to the information providers did not seem to?

Can anyone explain that one?

[acmejack]

6. Because they are all smarter than we are!

So they knew a lot more than us regular little people and uh, er, ah...

It is amazing that all us dweebs knew this stuff isn't it? I guess this is why they prefer we just stay ignorant, be careful what we say and follow instructions.

[HereSince1628]

5. Evenso, the war was a horrible idea and it violated UN treaty obligations.

It isn't at all credible to claim that although much of the world saw this reality, it was hidden from US politicians.

Hillary has got to eat this one, and old crow served up cold is an unpleasant dish indeed.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Even Al Sharpton Got This Right

After St. Colin Powell's speech at the UN, I heard Al Sharpton say something like "For 30 years we've had satellites that can read license plates; if that's all of the evidence they have, then Iraq has no WMD"

He was right - we should replace Mrs. Clinton with Mr. Sharpton.

[William769]

8. You get the cupie doll for being the first one to post this today.

How many cuopie dolls have you collected so far? Will you be the first tomorrow?

[AlienAvatar]

31. What are cupie dolls?

I know it's a doll but your post seems to give an added connotation? I'm not even sure if it's a negative or positive connotation, but it sounds negative.
Could you explain this further? If I'm missing the obvious, forgive me, I've only been up for about 20 minutes.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

36. kewpie dolls were a silly fad when I was way to young to understand fads.

after that came creepie crawlers, and all sorts of other stuff, culminating in Pet Rocks. I suspect the poster is proHillary and dislikes using her words and actions against her. or at least us discussing them

[mod mom]

10. We need a leader not a follower (when the water is safe). Too little too late.

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. There was nothing wrong with the Intelligence

Has a matter of fact, a lot of it was pretty good. The problem is that the BUSH WH & DOD cooked the Intel and lied about the Intel.

They made up their own Intel that had little to do with reality nor did it matter to them.

[bambo53]

13. The honest answer is,

The real truth about WMD and the Iraq war resolution, as I see it, is that the Bush administration laid down a dare of voting against it. They dared the Dem's to put their patriotism on the line and declare that Iraq had no WMD.

Who would be so foolish as to believe that Bush, Cheney, and Rove would not "plant" WMDs in Iraq and destroy the Dem's credibility forever?

It was a very good move on the Republicans part, one the Dem's simply could not risk.

Explaining exactly "why" they voted for the IWR is not as simple and concise as saying "stay the course" or "cut and run", it requires and rather long & complicated explanation, so the Dem's have chosen "flawed intelligence" as their answer.

I wish they could explain it more truthfully but like every corner the administration has backed them into, it requires too long of an explanation for the average American to grasp.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

14. Once again, Hillary is backpeddling on an issue

that she knows is a loser in the primaries.

I give Hillary about a 1% chance of receiving the nomination.

[bullimiami]

15. just remember the dire warnings and profound arguments of those senators

that stood and spoke against the resolution.

they fell on hillarys deaf ears. she blew that one.
it didnt take a senator to know it was foolish to trust bushco with unrestrained approval for war.

[sallyseven]

16. Funny I don't hear all this same bitching

going on about the other candidates. Must be some reason for this. What could it be. A woman? How dare she run? Not liberal enough good heavens!!! Smarter than most of the others? Oh dear. Well folks, Al is not going to run. Kuchinich has one chance in hell of getting the nomination, Clark is a military person. If you don't know what that means go back to History. Edwards that millionaire Lawyer, Obama the new guy who no one knows, Pays your m money and take your chances. Lets make sure that the repukes have a lot of ammunition from this site to demonize our candidates.

[mod mom]

17. Um excuse me but I am a woman and the issue if you read the comments is

her policies (ie Iraq and free trade for two). Don't you think it is ironic that she is just now making a comment about Iraq? I would gladly support a candidate like Barbara Boxer (and others like her) if she came forward, but Hiliary: NO THANKS!

[sallyseven]

18. Bush lied about everything. What matters is that

she knows what was done. All you genius sit in front of the computer and make pronouncements but there is no record of your votes at the time. I am sorry but you may think that being a woman is not a barrier but it is. I am sick of everyone on the bash Hillary bandwagon and the women who are ok with it.

[Gold Metal Flake]

22. There can be no criticism of Hillary BECAUSE she is a woman?

I believe that when any Democratic Party member parrots right wing talking point lies about how the pre-war intel was "flawed" as a way of excusing their support for the Iraq invasion they open themselves to criticism. I don't believe gender enters into it. Defending the same party member simply on the basis of gender is unreasonable.

[sandnsea]

27. When did she say he lied?

She said the intelligence was deeply flawed. HUGE difference. Has she ever uttered a peep about the DSM or the OSP or any of the intentional distortions of the intelligence? And there's really nothing spectacular about saying we shouldn't have gone to war because there's no WMD - AFTER the entire country has come to that conclusion. Even Kay Baily Hutchinson said that. Where was she all these years? This has nothing to do with Hillary being a woman and everything to do with Hillary being a HORRIBLE leader with HORRIBLE politics who I don't want anywhere near the White House.

[mod mom]

32. First of all, I am an activist and come to DU to be informed and to get info out.

Just because being a woman is somewhat of a barrier doesn't mean you should support all women despite their record. I believe the Clintons (both of them are opportunists and did a great deal of damage to the middle class by their support of free trade issues in order to get the financial backing of big corporations.

THE ISSUE ISN'T WOMEN BUT HILLIARY.

[Alamom]

24. Thank you, Sallyseven, my thoughts exactly. n/t

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

25. If and when other candidates make the same

kind of pandering, stupid, obvious remarks, I will and do (and so do others) comment on it.

Are we supposed to give Hil a pass?

[mod mom]

33. I guess she supports Kay Bailey Hutchinson using that logic.

I am a woman and find it appalling that gender bias trumps the merits of the individual for some. Hilliary's silence regarding the war, her support of free trade such as NAFTA and her silence regarding the tainted elections (she told Rev Jaclson she would stand with Sen Boxer in Jan '05 but backed out at the last minute is good reason not to back her!

[sandnsea]

26. Bullshit

You hear this bitching directed at Hillary because the Clinton team has such extraordinary power over the Democratic Party. Consequently, Hillary has called the shots on just about everything for the last 6 years and the entire reason they went 'tough on defense' was so she could run with a more hawkish Democratic Party. Everything she's done has been completely wrong. She never takes the lead on anything. While others are taking the hits for being wrong and taking the lead demanding change, her and her little gang sit back and figure out how to sabatoge them. She is another Joe Lieberman, only worse because she's got infinitely more power than he can ever dreamed of. Not wanting her to run has nothing to do with her sex, it has to do with her as a person. Woman does not equal sainthood.

[Debi]

35. Actually the same comments were made about John Edwards just

a couple of days ago and he's not a woman.

Are women supposed to support Hillary Clinton just because she's female? Are we women supposed to be monolithic? For that matter sexist? If Rice runs should we all vote republican because we need to vote for a woman?


How about if people who agree with Hillary Clinton's positions and like her past performance as a Senator AND she runs in 2008 they can support her? And people who question her performance, question her motives AND don't want to see that type of PERSON in office don't need to support her. How hard is that?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

37. we agree 'bout 'Bama, and I'm from Illinois.

Her sex has nothing to do with it. We've had Jane Byrne as mayor, supreme and many appellate justices, aldercritters, ward committeegirls, and more. Neither sex nor race matter. Talent, integrity and having the internal strength to take a position based on something other than polling numbers are crucial. She does not have it.

[mnmoderatedem]

19. couldn't agree more

your post neatly sums up why I WILL NOT support Hillary. Too afraid that voting against IWR would hurt her political future, and now she scrambles to ride both sides of the fence.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't more than half the dems in congress vote against the IWR?

[Upfront]

20. kerry in the same boat.

I don't feel quite as strong about him for some reason. Edwards as well. Al Gore is the answer if only he can be convinced to run.

[Neecy]

21. She should just admit her mistake - period.

I recall at the time, many of the Democrats who voted for this travesty claimed that they wanted to present a 'united front' on what they considered a foreign policy initiative - and expected Bush to use it to negotiate. Obviously they've chucked this excuse because a small child could have predicted that Bush would use it to start a war that he was openly lusting for. And now we are where we are.

We quickly moved to the 'flawed intelligence' excuse after it was determined that these fearsome WMD, the smoking 'mushroom clouds', never existed. I remember writing my Senator, Dianne Feinstein, just prior to the resolution begging her to vote against it given the lack of convincing evidence regarding these weapons. In return, I got a very condescending letter from her patiently explaining as if writing to a small child the dangers of this fearsome arsenal Saddam had and why it was necessary to our national security to take action. Now I see that Dianne is on the 'flawed intelligence' train and I want to spit.

The truth is the Democrats were afraid of a Rove 'soft on terror' smear and voted their fears over our interests. And for that, they should at the very least apologize and at worst share history's blame for this disaster, this bloody catastrophe, this destruction of a country for reasons still unknown. And they need to MAKE THIS RIGHT and fight like hell against escalation. I won't hold my breath.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Well, she's very good at keeping her eye on the polls.

Which is what drove her to vote for the war and is now driving her backpedaling on the same vote. At least some of the others have apologized for their pathetic votes, Hillary is just shirking responsibility.

[leftofthedial]

28. Hillary is, sadly, not alone on this

most congressional Democrats came away from the IWR vote with a major, indelible stain on their credibility.

another neocon victory.

sadly, many of them seem not to have learned anything from their mistake.

[paulk]

29. do you have a link to this?

I would like to read it .

[BuyingThyme]

30. Yes, we don't need an idiot lying him or her self into office

on the backs of hundreds of thousands of dead people.

This stuff ain't complicated. No more lies, Mrs. Clinton. Just stop it. You are now a compulsive liar who wants to be a killer.

The intelligence was clear. The weapons inspectors were the best form of intelligence ever supplied to the U.S. intelligence agencies. Stop it. Stop the lies.

K&R

[Dr Fate]

41. I agree-It would be refreshing if Hillary could bring herself to tell the truth about Bush:

"Bush lied about the WMDs and the 9/11 connex. Trusting him was a mistake- and I take full responsibility for thinking I should trust this President. It's a mistake I wont make again."

Not hard at all Hill, and most voters would buy it. It's called "plain talk" and "being on the level." Try it sometime.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Am I supposed to believe...

that she's saying this now because she really means it? Or just because the public is turning against the war?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

38. we're supposed to be gullible and believe her. n/t

[MazeRat7]

39. Apparently when you get elected you lose all common sense...

Certainly there were a few million of us protesting prior to the invasion saying there was no case (specifically WMD's) for a war.

But what do we know...

But more to the point, why didn't she (and others) listen to our concerns and ask some hard questions before whoring off their vote ???

MZr7

[Dr Fate]

40. Refusing to tell the truth (ex: "They were lying") is pretty much like lying too. n/t

n/t

[judaspriestess]

42. Hillary is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't

n/t

[Dr Fate]

43. Where is the "does" in her most recent focus-tested move?

A "does" would be to tell the truth instead of saying what every right winger from Rush Limbaugh to my co-workers do- blame "bad intellignece" rather than admit that Bush just plain flat-out lied to us.

Hillary is only damned when she doesn't. When she actually steps up to the plate and tells the truth about Bush and this war instead of aping RW talking points, I doubt you will see these kinds of reactions- but we will never know until she gives the truth a try.

[oasis]

44. Senators don't get the same intel as the president. Bush deceived them.

But then, you knew that.:think: