Are there any cultural memories of prehistoric times passed down in legends?

[AlienGirl]

I am watching an Animal Planet special about the prehistoric animals of North America, and I started wondering whether there are traces of stories that have been told since the ice ages, or even earlier. Humans are good at passing knowledge down through the generations...what is the oldest story we know? Might there have been stories passed before humans even became modern humans that we can still access somehow?

Tucker

[everythingsxen]

1. I would say Dragons are a big one...

*roar*

[AlienGirl]

19. It is interesting, I was thinking of the "three-in-one" theory about dragons

That theory is that the dragon, being a combination of big cat, snake, and bird, is an amalgam of the predators that early (even pre-human) ancestors faced...

Tucker

[Indiana_Dem]

2. I'm not sure...but I think the oldest written story is Gilgamesh.nt

[daveskilt]

17. Go Enkidu baby!

[Kutjara]

3. Interesting question.

I don't know the answer (or how anyone could ever know, given that the stories would be, by definition, prehistoric), but I wouldn't be surprised if many of the stories we tell and retell are the same or similar to those told by our remote ancestors. Someone once said that there are only about six stories stories in the world, and all our dramas are mere retelling of these timeless themes. If that's true, the its virtually certain we are rehashing many of the same themes that our forebearers did.

Whereas our stories may be about corporate battles, international intrigue and fast cars, theirs were about fights over tribal leadership, battles with neighboring villages and fast mastidons.

[Spazito]

4. There are prehistoric wall paintings that, in effect, tell stories

Here is one such site in France:

The cave of Lascaux:

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/lascaux/en/

[Kiouni]

5. Oldest passed knowledge...thats easy its

dreaming! dreaming is an evolutionary process that is not observed in most non-mammal animals. Birds sleep why they fly but they don't dream. most psychiatrist believe we have REM (dream) sleep to keep us asleep longer. Dreaming is a evolutionary refinement in humans that makes us who we are consciously, so the longest running passed knowledge i can think of is sleep.

[AlienGirl]

7. Birds dream.

When they are flying and only shut down one side of their brain, they don't dream on the shut-down side; but if you watch a bird in his usual sleeping position, standing on one foot as he drifts off, you can see the REM start. If your bird talks, you may even learn something of the contents of the dream if he talks in his sleep. (Birds actually have the most advanced nervous systems on the planet.)

Reptiles sleep, too, though I don't know if they have REM sleep. Even insects have a period of lowered activity analogous to sleep.

I want to know whether the other Great Apes ever have dreams of flying the way humans do...

Tucker


Link to article on bird dreams: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/992538.stm

[Kiouni]

9. maybe...

usually scientists say that dolphins shut off one side of their brains because they have to swim. Birds are trickier and it hasn't been proven (as far as I know) that they dream or sleep while they are flying because of the obvious inherent problems in using an eeg on a fly bird. Reptiles are believed not to dream or have REM sleep like we do but they have a different cortex then us and their for an eeg really doesn't back this up but the likely hood is that dreaming is a extension of our consciousness at night and there for only prevalent in higher evolved creatures. Also the mammal that doesn't have REM sleep is an Anteater!

but interesting stuff on birds thanks for the info.

[AlienGirl]

11. Birds certainly are highly evolved, no "maybe" about that!

[alfredo]

15. REM could have been a period of wakefulness so there

would always be one member of the troop that was awake to warn the others of predators.

[Indiana_Dem]

6. Google it....here I found these links:

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/GILG.HTM

I also believe the story of Genesis might be a story passed on from when before humans became modern. Then before Genesis (within the book of Genesis) it alludes to Enoch. The Book of Enoch reads like the Epic of Gilgamesh. I think there are hints of knowledge within those stories' baselines although the stories have probably changed many times to what we know of them. Google them and read them and see what you think. Genesis talks about giants. Could they have been the dinosaurs or some type of dinosaur? I don't know.

[AlienGirl]

8. Interesting, what about Genesis suggests pre-modern-human origin to you?

[nealmhughes]

13. Yes the odd "giants" in Genesis, which appears quite separate from the Adam and Eve 7 days accounts

I read a book on a plane once in French on a very very long transAtlantic flight once that about paleopsychology where the author argued that the dragon was the worse fear our small pre-ape tree dwellers could imagine: a combination of a snake or lizard and a carnivorous beast combined with a bird.

That was a long time ago and I've forgotten the author or title, but never the dragon imagry in the book.

[leftofthedial]

10. the "global" flood myth

lots of aspects of "creation"

the messiah myth

indeed the very notion of deities that rule events on earth

all apparently predate recorded history and have been repeatedly recycled.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. I seem to recall something about the possible origins of the flood myth

I'm not sure on what channel I watched it, but there was speculation that the legends of a great flood in Middle Eastern myths came from an actual situation whereby either ice or land at one time formed a barrier between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, and that the latter body of water had a lower level than the former. When that barrier broke, several thousand years ago, it might have drowned many people living along the shore or in part of what has now become the sea bed.

[Selatius]

22. It may have been due to the impact of a major asteroid, one dated to about 4800 BC by one scientist.

See my post below.

[leftofthedial]

24. the Straits of Bosporus between Europe and Turkey were created

by the land bridge giving way. The Mediterranean/Aegean were much higher than the Black Sea. Big flood. Lots of stories.

[alfredo]

12. the Yeti could be from contact with

the last of the Homo Erectus or Neanderthals.



I remember reading about how humans react to the sight of an Acacia tree. Somehow people react to that tree in a specific way. It is the tree of our birthplace.



The people of the Amazon basin have stories of a time when they lived in a cold place and wore animal skins.

[WhiteTara]

14. the Inuit

have stories about Copper Woman. Anne Cameron wrote a book by that title and tells the stories of the Inuit and their pre his story tales. Who know anything, but they were interesting.

[AlienGirl]

20. What were the stories?

[rockymountaindem]

18. This is a very interesing thread

Thanks for opening up this discussion.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

26. I agree Rocky... it brings Jung theories to mind...

Like the OP, Jung offers ideas the average individual might reject too quickly but the possibilities offer a nice mental diversion. Thanks for the thread, Alien girl!

[Selatius]

21. The oldest stories I know are the infamous Flood Legends

There's stories from Africa to Asia to the Americas recounting a giant flood many years in the past.

Coincidentally, there is a massive crater in the Indian ocean that's dated to about 4800 BC. The Noah Flood is said to be a story ripped from the older Epic of Gilgamesh, and they say that epic was ripped from an even older flood story from ancient Sumeria, and the Sumerians happened to have lived around the time the asteroid landed in the ocean, creating a gigantic tsunami. If the tsunami was large enough, ocean water would've been pushed over the Hormuz Strait and all up the Iraqi low-lying plains.

It would be a great help to the cause if the National Science Foundation sent a ship equipped with modern acoustic equipment to take a closer look at Burckle, Dr. Ryan said. “If it had clear impact features, the nonbelievers would believe,” he said.

But they might have more trouble believing one of the scientists, Bruce Masse, an environmental archaeologist at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. He thinks he can say precisely when the comet fell: on the morning of May 10, 2807 B.C.

Dr. Masse analyzed 175 flood myths from around the world, and tried to relate them to known and accurately dated natural events like solar eclipses and volcanic eruptions. Among other evidence, he said, 14 flood myths specifically mention a full solar eclipse, which could have been the one that occurred in May 2807 B.C.

Half the myths talk of a torrential downpour, Dr. Masse said. A third talk of a tsunami. Worldwide they describe hurricane force winds and darkness during the storm. All of these could come from a mega-tsunami.

Of course, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, Dr. Masse said, “and we’re not there yet.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/science/14WAVE.html?ex=1321160400&en=35b395ffd080eb47&ei=5090

[chknltl]

23. Here are three further suggestions

I may have missed this from earlier on in this thread but one important culture worth mentioning here would be the Australian Aboriginals. They have their stories of the "Dreamtime" which refers to a time far back in their own prehistory: http://www.crystalinks.com/dreamtime.html

Then there are the metaphysical types who sometimes dabble in this topic. In one forum archive I saw a question about the fate of the Neanderthal...the response was that this line of hominids faded to extinction on it's own. (sorry perhaps not the best example but it did come to mind from your question). Although I shy away from stories about Atlantis or aliens building the pyramids and such I do often find many of the other tales captivating. I have an open mind, I tend to believe that not all of the metaphysical teachers are charlatans. Some of these folks can provide answers every bit as valid as the examples one may readily find elsewhere.

Another thought: Human instincts. We are aware of them of course but have you considered that a study which maps these instincts may reveal clues and insights to our past which have not been passed along through oral or written tradition? A for instance: There are many people who have phobias about spiders and snakes but hardly any about hippos. The hippo kills more people each year so why aren't more of us instinctively fearful of this beast. I suspect a fascinating thesis could be written up here.

I hope I have provided you a little food for thought, your question certainly provided me with some.
c

[OxQQme]

25. My hobby

Dozens of bookmarked sites. Scores of hard cover books. Stacks of periodicals.
Here's a few to pique your interest.

Enuma Elish. Written a couple of mileniums before any thought of a bible.
http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/enuma.html

The Gilgamesh story:
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/

A look at the Deluge/Great Flood:
http://www.halexandria.org/dward193.htm

Titilating tidbits of Enoch:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm

More Enoch. Chapter 6 speaks of the 'giants'
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM

Misc.:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/index.htm

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/Articles/Ancient_Civilisations_Six_Great_Enigmas.html

http://ancientgravitics.tripod.com/

Here's a study of Cave Art:
http://www.grahamhancock.com/supernatural/

[chknltl]

27. I am quite fond of "Messages from Michael"

My own life expieriences were best explained here...as I have grown older I have learned to tap into the teachings somewhat. Here is an excerpt from this, my fave book:
http://www.caelumpress.com/mfm_excerpt.html