Most Investment Bankers work 80-100 hours a week and have no lives, keep the bonuses in perspective

[Herman Munster]

I mean just consider what a 100 hour work week is like.

That's pretty much 9AM-2AM from Monday through Friday. 17 hour days

Maybe Saturday is a little easier. 9AM-7PM or so. A 10 hour day.

And Sunday they maybe work 5 hours in the afternoon. A 5 hour day.

They rarely are able to take vacation days or keep up with social engagements. Most of their girlfriends and wives eventually leave them. Most are very lonely people and the only way they can get sex is through call-girl services or dating obvious gold-diggers and shallow types.

All of their money is taxed under New York City income tax rules, New York State income tax, federal income tax.

Then there is New York property taxes and maintenance fees and a mortgage if they own a small 800 square foot $1 million apartment.

So you have to figure that 70% of it is gone just for taxes and housing expenses.

Is the sacrifice worth it? Not to me. It sounds like a prison sentence, quite frankly. But if you want to "work" and make millions this is what is required.

[GOPBasher]

1. Greed will make people do that. Personally, I want to see my kids,

wife and other family and friends. I have no idea why someone would want to live without having relationships with people like that.

[vicman]

2. If only they weren't

hurting so many other human beings who do not share their monomaniacal greed, I maybe could muster a bit of sympathy. But their greed places a crushing weight upon the vast majority of humans and other beings on this planet, so, f*@k 'em!

[Ethelk2044]

3. Hours Worked

Some People in IT work a lot of hours. I don't see them getting those kinds of raises. There is nothing to justify those types of bonuses.

[Lucky Luciano]

33. IT guys work a lot, but they

are often just code monkeys. The traders are the creative ones - the IT guys just implement what the traders tells them...or sometimes the trader will just program things himself.

[Waya]

4. Awwwwww, the awful plight of the...........

...investment banker. And to think that a hell of a lot of people work 60 - 70 hours a week at slightly above minimum wage to make ends meet - oh, and the end of year bonus comes out to exactly squat - what a cake walk compared to the horrible situation of the investment bankers at Wall Street...............

[MGD]

93. I know, isn't it just awful? They have to sit behind a desk for maybe 100 hrs a week

the horror of it all. :nopity:

[POAS]

5. If they treid to do ANY factory job for 100 hours

per week they wouldn't last a month.

Work my ass, how many of those 100 hours were spent schmoozing clients over 3 Martini lunches lasting 3 to 4 hours at the "club" or playing 18 with a few wealthy investors?

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Amen!

[Demit]

23. Exactly. I want to see time sheets, showing how the time was spent.

I'm very skeptical of people who boast of 80 or 100 hour weeks.

[Lucky Luciano]

35. Actually quite a lot of those hours...

are spent like you just said. The I-Bankers work 100 hours because they have to meet people and fly places...they also have to make their presentations spotless and completely perfect. "Oops, this page has a typo, we have to redo the entire thing! FUck...another hour or two wasted!"


The traders work 50-60 hours per week, but the hours are desk bound and hyper-intense. The trader has the better deal if you ask me....especially if you are an adrenaline junky, but so efw can do it - so few...there is quite a lot of creativity involved.

[MGD]

94. Exactly. Try doing my job for 100 hrs a week and see how many days you last.

I have no sympathy for these assholes and I know they have none for me.

[MadHound]

6. Sorry, but no sympathy from me.

Lots and lots of people work 80-100 hours a week, and only a relative few of them are compensated at the rate that investment bankers are. In fact, many of the poor are working these sorts of long hours for minimum wage, or just slightly above. These people don't get a honking big bonus, they get none at all.

And as far as these two big boys that got the mega millions bonus, believe me, they're not working 80 plus hours a week. They might be kicking in fifty hours on a regular basis, and might up things to sixty hours if matters are really pressing. But the 80 plus hours are for the newcomers, the drones, not for upper management.

And I don't care where you live, 40-50 plus million dollars as a bonus is simply obscene.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Me neither

I think they are a bunch of selfish pricks. I'll bet they are all republicans too.

[Lucky Luciano]

37. Repubs like Robert RUbin and John Corzine? nt

[izzie]

7. What happened to profits going to the stock holders?

Workers could get some also. Greed is great.Playing with money has always been fun. I wonder if some ever sleep as greed gets so nice to so many. One thing we can always be sure of is greed is always with us. I am sure their was one cave man who took all he could also in every cave.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Not to mention charitable donations

It's stories like this that make me wish we were living in socialism. Just ONE of these investment banker's Christmas bonuses would keep a charitable foundation afloat for a long time, probably years.

My bro in law is from one of the wealthiest families in this area. They have literally created an art museum. His family has had money and lots of it for 4 generations now.

But they live very modestly. No trillion dollar homes or cars.

And they give a lot of their money away. This city has greatly benefited from their philanthropy.

If every wealthy family did what his family has done, we would have no poverty, all kids could afford to go to college and health care would be available to all who need it.

My mother gave $5 a month to her Catholic high school every month of her life from the time she graduated from high school to the day she died. About 10 years ago, the school honored her on the 50th anniversary of her high school graduation. They told her that if every graduate did what she did - gave only $5 a month - the school would never need to do fund raising and they could afford a multi million dollar facility. And their tuition would be lower.

[Lucky Luciano]

31. I thought profits were supposed to go to the workers...

The workers at Goldman earned $16.5B....the profits for the shareholders was $9.5B.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. But did the workers work 100 hour weeks

like those who got the bonuses? You know all those hours mean they DESERVE a big bonus! :sarcasm:

[Lucky Luciano]

45. Most I-Bankers work 100 hrs and traders work 50-60 hrs per week

They get paid about the same depending on their seniority and how directly they affected profits.

The one thing I can say about this business is that it is definitely a meritocracy. Those who earn the most for the bank get paid the most. Tradrs have it better because of the shorter hours and they can literally list all of their bets and directly quanitfy their contribution. It is hard to argue against a trader getting 10% of their PnL (profits and losses). Afterall, what the trader did is there in plain sight for all to see.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. If you are looking for sympathy, you can forget it

I am a teacher. I can tell LOTS of stories about people in my business who work 100 hour weeks and don't get a bonus EVER, much less at Christmas.

[Lucky Luciano]

48. If they were willing to work 100 hrs and wanted the money,

they could have gone into I-Banking...but they chose not to. It is also a question of how many people can do the jobs though - not just how many hours were worked.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. And most of those wealthy bankers

wouldn't last a minute in a classroom. :)

[Lucky Luciano]

53. Hey now! I taught math classes at UCLA!

My mom and dad were teachers too, BTW! :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. Wanna bet you couldn't handle MY job?

I can barely handle it myself. LOL

[Lucky Luciano]

99. I am very impatient....

So, I probably could not do it as well as you can. teaching at the university removes a lot of the stress because it does not matter if people come to class or not and I have no baby-sitting to do. I didalways get rated very highly as an effective instructor though. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

100. Well if I ever need help with Math,

I may look you up. :)

[Herman Munster]

54. the big problem also is not everyone can get into I-Banking

even people who WANT to. So, it's not like it's even a choice for most people.

The bulge brackets, PE shops, hedge funds, VC funds, are all extremely extremely selective about who they hire. If you didn't go to an Ivy-type school where they recruit at, or you don't have family connections, you are at an extreme disadvantage even getting your foot in the door. And once your foot is in the door, if you don't produce, you are kicked out. There's very little hand-holding. A recruiter told me once the people on the street will cut off your balls and laugh at you as you bleed...it's that cutthroat out there.

[Lucky Luciano]

59. That is true....

it is ultra-competitive. I think family connects play a lesser role these days. The only time that will really help is for sales positions where being connected is actually useful. In other positions, the connection will only land an interview (an accomplishment in and of itself), but one must still be spotless during the ensuing 8 hour interview...and the second and third 8 hour interviews as well! Overall, they can meet 20-25 people during the interview process and be grilled on technical questions, brainteasers, etc - plus they have to like you as a person to work with.

The business is a meritocracy - once you are in, your schooling/connections means nothing...it is all about performance and job volatility is very high. The comp is big, but you can be out on your ass the next day, so one would be wise to save.

[Porcupine]

67. now that's a bullshit statement.

Investment banker/trader jobs are allocated by class connections and old-boy networks. There are probably a few Ivy Leauge whiz kids but many of THOSE college slots are by family connection also.

The number of people recieving these salaries whose fathers dirtied their hands every day for a wage is eqivalent to zero.

Tax the crap out of the bastards. 90% ahould leave them still quite comfortable.

[Lucky Luciano]

68. Total crap

Class connections play some role....but not as much as you think. The reason is that success in the field requires a lot of technical knowledge that a family connection does not provide. "Can you do VBA for Excel? Can you program and backetst trading strategies in C++? NO? Then why the fuck are you wasting my time?! Get outta here!!" There are a lot of whiz kids at a lot of the banks - I might add the banks are very sensitive to diversity. People of all kinds get hired nowadays. Why? Because if you go by class connections and not by technical know-how, you will get beaten by those who do go by technical know-how. Technology skills are more important than class connections. To see this sort of things, check out:

http://www.nuclearphynance.com for an example.

Goldman Sachs only hires 5% of MIT's MBA graduates. It is competitive...and they want HUNGRY people more than they want some lazy privileged ass.


Boring day at the office for me btw....

[Nikia]

73. But you have to be able to look and act the part

You probably should be wearing an outfit that cost at least $1,000 or looks like it when you go to the interview. You have to appear like you grew up upper middle class or rich, having all the right mannerisms and looking well kept.
These issues keep many people out of high paying careers. I suppose there are services out there that do help people play and look the part who weren't born into it, but I suspect that they aren't inexpensive.

[Lucky Luciano]

80. Nahhh - a college kid is not expected to wear a $1K suit.

You have to look hungry more than someone who went to finishing school. I mean every fourth word out of a trader's mouth is "Fuck" while on the job. It is Miss Manners' nightmare.

Connections can help becuase if the kid's father was in the business and the father does a good job, then there can be some credibility. The hardest thing for an unconnected person (I was one) is to convince them that you are for real. You don't need to look the part - as I said, there is a great deal of sensitivity to diversity now.

More important than anything is attitude. Are you knowledgeable, yet humble? That would score big points. A lot of these Ivy league kids go into an interview thinking they are hot shit - they rarely get the job. Also, you have to be humble, but at the same time, you have to be extremely confident in a healthy way and you need to truly believe in yourself. Sounds kind of cliche, but it is true - you can do whatever you want to do - the key word is "want." The reason a lot of poorer and lower middle class don't move up is lack of access to good educations - that must be addressed. Even if they do get an education, they need to have hope and honest confidence without hubris. This can be hard growing up in a poor neighborhood with no role models.

[hfojvt]

90. sounds cliche, because it is cliche

it is false too. It's like the old adage that if you pray hard enough you can make water run uphill. By definition, anybody who fails must not have wanted it enough.

The reason alot of people do not 'move up' is that a fairly large percentage of people in this country are discarded. Maybe if you get the education and/or have the skills and/or the drive and/or the connections and/or the personality and/or the good looks, then it won't be you. But it will be somebody - lots of somebodies. You can take that to the bank.

[Lucky Luciano]

95. I think you are being fair to some extent

Personality is important. Education is important. You mention Drive too. That is the "want" part of the equation. A lot of people don't know what that word really means. "It would ne nice if I could...blah blah blah" is not want. "want" requires sacrifice and an ALL-IN perspective. I bet everything. I would not submit. I refused to fail when others told me I would. I would not back down and I was as stubborn in my quest as * is in his stupid war. Some told me to accept a lower job and try to move up the ladder - no way. I remained unemployed until the score came. I was almost bankrupt as I lived off of credit cards for 18 months. It was the toughest period of my life, but I won goddammit. I learned to program on my own - including some of the C++ design patterns that people grill you on in interviews. I learned as much as I could about option pricing. Then I went to war once I got an intern/contractor job - you see at the end, they were prepared to offer me an IT job. I intentionally pissed off the IT people so they would not hire me - That way, if they really wanted me, they would be forced to offer me a trading job. I forced their hand. Either I was stupid or the bank was stupid - better to find out now rather than later - part of the reason I was willing to risk my opportunity to get what I really wanted. They could have fired me for that aggression, but they promoted me instead. That is "want." Why bother? I am an adrenaline junky. Simple really.

My quest didn't kill anyone though. I am not materialistic, I love numbers and using data to my advantage (hence my sig lines). I look forward to helping others - I want to find extremely intelligent but underprivileged kids and mentor them - I want them to enter college knowing advanced Partial Differential equations, probability, stochastic calculus, and a full understanding of the derivation of the Black-Scholes Option Pricing formula. It is really cool stuff. That does bring another point - one needs passion. Passion is crucial to any success. For the record, I am not successful yet, but I am in a very good position to be.

I definitely want to do my part to help society. There is no question about it. In addition to a mentoring program, I would probably try to set up a public healthcare action committee. I think that is the most important domestic issue of the day.

[hfojvt]

102. are you trying to be a motivational speaker

fuggedabadit. I'm older than you, can do PDeq, probability and stochastic calculus. Those classes are on my college transcript which I hang on the side of my home, which is a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!

You claim that you are not materialistic and yet when you say "I am not successful yet" it sounds like you are giving a purely materialist definition to the word "success". And that, as William James said, is our national disease.

If you want to help "SOCIETY" then stay far away from mentoring. You help an underprivileged kid to materialist 'success' does not help society. It only 'helps' that kid. He will then be the meanest, fastest, and best prepared rat in the rat race. The rat race will still be a bunch of lemmings racing for a cliff, and furthermore it is like war, a strange game, the only way to win, is not to play.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

103. "which is a van DOWN BY THE RIVER"

He was the greatest and that was one of his best. :rofl:

Pardon my off topic post.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[Lucky Luciano]

105. ...but I am not materialistic.

I never buy anything....and nobody said the kid has to do what I do. He can do whatever (s)he wants to do with the math. I just happen to think that Brownian motion and Ito's lemma are pretty cool and interesting applications of math. I never defined materialistic goals as success. In fact I never defined it. I have a great deal to learn and I am eager to learn it. Success in this business would come when I have felt that my learning has ended or further knowledge would not be interesting for me to acquire. It is really fun to gather a lot of data, write a program to analyze it statistically, and place trades based on that data and see things go your way. It feels good. I love what I do. I enjoy it immensely. I would not even know what to do if I didn't do this.

There is just a ton of stuff I have left to learn. TONS. If I were to leave now, then I would have left a ton of knowledge on the table.

"fuggedabadit. I'm older than you, can do PDeq, probability and stochastic calculus."

Not the point - my point was to get the kid to enter college with that knowledge! :p Maybe it will only help that kid - who now has the ability to help others. I can't help the whole world by myself. I can help a few people though. It would be nice if everyone did the same.

[hfojvt]

106. that kid is not going to help anybody

if he stays on the materialistic path. That reminds me of a play I saw at a Catholic school, all the kids in the play stated that their career goal was 'to be the best'. That's a different and contradictory goal than 'helping people' or helping society. In fact, since you suggested that even getting some jobs requires TOTAL motivation, it sounds like having that goal will crowd out all other goals.

Considering the way our society works - if you help a kid or several get credentials (university degrees) so they can get good paying jobs there are going to be several other kids somewhere who are going to be unable to get those jobs, because your kids are getting them. The net help is zero, unless there is some great social benefit to having janitors with masters degrees.

[Lucky Luciano]

108. Then what do you suggest would be helpful?

Maybe you have a better idea - If I like it, then maybe I will implement that instead. I am always open to other ideas. I am serious too. Maybe you can tell me some way I can help right now. I would like for it to be hands on though. I want to actively participate. My weekends are always completely free.

Also, nobody should do anything for money. They should do it because it is interesting and they enjoy it. In fact, if you remember the PDEs and Stochastic Calc, then look up the Black-Scholes formula. You must like math. I guarantee that you will find it fascinating. Guaranteed. Imagine doing something you love doing. Then imagine getting paid well to do it. I love learning and it is my life endeavor.

As far as helping the kids learn, it should be for the sake of knowledge. Also, if someone has great potential, it would be such a shame for them to miss out.

[hfojvt]

109. there have been threads on this (things to do)

the things I do are kinda sporadic. Mentoring would be more productive, IMO, for younger kids, because teaching basics is important for everyone. Even, as I think about the teenager that my BiL mentored. According to my sister it was not so much that the kid learned alot of college level academics, but he became less of a thug, and that is certainly helpful.

That nobody should do anything for money sounds like a nice ideal in one sense, but it also sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I cannot imagine being paid well to do what I love because it is totally foreign to my experience in the work world where usually I am poorly paid to do what I hate. Much of the necessary work of the world is inherently uninteresting and unfun and much of the profit motive in our society seems determined to make it more so.

I am reminded of my college roommate. He entered college as a pre-med major. When that proved to be impossible, he seemed to be unable to adapt, flunked out, got into drugs, and was working as a city bus driver before he killed himself before age 35. Not that ambition was even a secondary cause of that, but it seems to me that society does not respect people who are not stars, and often people do not respect themselves if they cannot or will not reach the stars. Bus drivers too are necessary and even if they are neither paid well nor doing what they love deserve a little respect and happiness.

[izzie]

41. I guess if you look at it that way is is fair.

But I am sure no one got to pay less for their food as one company took over another and wanted their cost to come back in one year. They just tacked it on to our cost and gave the trader a bigger cut along with CEO. The buyer pays for the whole greedy mess and I once owned a business so know the person who backs the cost also wants some of the profits. Maybe just a fairer way to divide up the profits is what I am looking for and maybe not as big profits. Where we used to pay the army private to peel potatoes we now pay some one like Halliburton to hire third world people to do it for the army at even more costly cost but not to the same poor guy peeling the potatoes. Fact is he most likely even makes less than the army private.

[acmavm]

8. And who holds the gun to their heads making them do this?

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Yes it is called CHOICE

They could have chosen to be poor or even middle class. Greedy bastards.

[thoughtanarchist]

9. Poor things...

:nopity:

my heart bleeds for them...

[Herman Munster]

11. there is no sympathy

that is their chosen career and the smart ones leave after they have a few million in the bank to retire at age 35 or lateral into a much less demanding career where they can have the time to have a family.

the dumb ones get sucked into the lifestyle and die of a heart attack at age 50 from the stress.

[OllieLotte]

10. I agree. It's not something I could or would do.

I don't begrudge them for being rewarded for their smarts/efforts.

[Vinca]

12. Of course they only have to work this schedule a year or two,

then they can retire and live off the pile of cash. Boo hoo.

[Herman Munster]

15. more like 10 years

The people with the big seven figure bonuses are managing directors. And they are nothing near the %50 million. It's more like $2-$3 million.

And it takes 10-15 years of selling your soul to reach that level.

[Nikia]

77. If you saved most of 2-3 million for a few years

You could pursue whatever career that you wished afterwards, without having to worry much about money. The connections that you made during investment banking probably could allow you to get a good six figure job at a good company. You probably would also make good investments with the money that you saved. This would enable you to have a lifestyle where you could afford nearly everything that you really wanted.

[sarge43]

13. Oh, what a freaking shame.

Care to estimate what kind of hours the soldiers and marines in Iraq routinely put in?

[conscious evolution]

82. you beat me to it

Soldiers in Iraq work 168 hours aweek.Do they get bonuses?They don't even get overtime.
Tax the hell out of anyone making 10 million a year!

[luckyleftyme2]

14. imagine

hell man 36years ago i got a divorce,got remarried and had a second family on the way. i worked to jobs 80 hours a week and got 60 on my main job plenty of weeks. the difference,i was a const.
worker-i worked ! and believe me i seldom got a day off. my pay at that time as considered above avg. but both jobs with bonus was below 100,000!
i say lets get real in here!put thecc40,000,000 where it belongs in the pocket of the investor!

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Oh how sad

Meanwhile, the homeless are on the street 24/7, don't know where their next meal is coming from, have no health care and that cardboard box is kinda cold this time of year.

Guess who I feel real sympathy for?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. What exactly do investment bankers do?

I've never understood banking or high finance. Do they make a product to sell? No? Then they must be creating a service--but what kind of service?
And what kind of product/or service makes someone work such long hours?

I'd rather keep my few pennies in a tin can and farm my land.

[pitohui]

36. they rip off old ladies

they basically sell people with failing powers (or people who perhaps never had any math or financial powers to begin with) fraudulently overpriced financial products that mean that most of the "gain" from their investment goes to somebody else

[Lucky Luciano]

38. I-Bankers essentially are salesmen and what they sell is

services to company that need money.

Should the company sell an equity stake in their company to get cash? Should they sell bonds? They also give advice on Mergers and Acquisitions and anything of that sort. How do they make their money? An example. Say a new company wants to issue stock for the first time in an IPO (Initial public offering). Let's say that their models indicate that the company's stock (that they are selling) is worth $500M. Let's say that the company is issuing 25 million shares. Then the stock should be issued for $20 to be in line with the assigned valuation. The I-Bankers will take the stock and give the company $475M or $19 per share. They will then own the shares and take on the sole risk of distributing them to the public at $20 per share. The profit is then $25M. In reality this is divided up amongst a lot of banks that help the lead bank distribute the shares and everybody will split up the $1 commission per share depending on the structure. Also, there are different methods that force the bank to take on less risk for less profit, but it is all up to how the contract is set up.

The other side of the game is the trading business. That is wayyyyyyyyyy more fun.

[HamdenRice]

65. Yes, and they are basically short term lenders

Your summary is a good one, and useful because most people have no idea what investment bankers do. I would add that this process is called "underwriting".

The reason they make so much money is because of the risk they take as short term lenders, as well as marketers of securities. It is the fact that they purchase the entire issuance of the stocks or bonds and then handle the sales of those securities to the public that, according to them, justifies their extraordinary fees.

On the other hand, the entire securities industry and even the supposedly pro investor securities laws, promotes an oligopoly of a few investment banks capable of handling this underwriting task.

[mikeytherat]

21. My bro-in-law works in Iraq, and his job is 24/7/365.

He tries to train Iraqi police by day and not get shot by he same guys at night. In the past six months, he's attended more than a dozen memorial services for men and women who were under his command. His "bonus" if he does a really good job? He gets to keep going back and doing it again. And again. And again.

Fuck Mr. or Mrs. Investment Banker.

mikey_the_rat

[babylonsister]

24. Yes, compare your b-i-l to these fat cats. Who's making the sacrifice? nt

[moondust]

28. BINGO. 24/7/365.

110 degrees. Boom!! Throwing track, gashing up the knuckles fixing it. Sweat running down. Air filter clogged up with sand, won't start. Here they come! Bullets flying!! Clack clack clack!!

For what? $1700 a month.

Take your million dollar bonus babies and get back down in your Hole of Shame.

[mikeytherat]

78. My bro-in-law was on the phone with my sis when the munitions depot

at Forward Camp Falcon was hit with mortar fire and exploded. My brother-in-law was about three miles from the depot when it went up. He was talking with my sister on the phone at the time, she heard a series of thuds in the background, and he said, "Holy sh**! That was close," and then the line went dead. We did not hear from him again for 24 very agonizing hours.

It would be really nice if he got a bonus, like he and all of his "kids" getting to come home.

:patriot:

mikey_the_rat

[Lucky Luciano]

84. I'll second that...

Such a shame that his life is on the line for that asshole *.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Best reply in the thread!

My best wishes for a speedy return for your bro in law.

Peace! :hug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Tell your bro to keep his head low

and bring as many of his kids back as he can

[mikeytherat]

75. Will do. That's why he stayed in after 20+ years - for the kids in his command

mikey_the_rat

[Lone_Star_Dem]

76. Speak of putting this all in perspective

You just did the best job of that I think I've ever seen here on DU.

[Th1onein]

22. I work just about every waking moment and have NO life, either

I didn't get that kind of bonus. In fact, I got no bonus at all. But I damned well made sure that all of my employees got a bonus this year.

It is just obscene to make this kind of money when people are doing without basics. It's a crime.

[JHB]

25. And do you know why the apartment is $1 million?

Because guys in "jackpot" professions like "investment banker" bid up the prices into orbit, so that people in "working stiff" professions -- even if they're doing pretty well -- can't even afford a broom closet.

They may wear silk ties and business suits, and have to put in long hours, but they're still just dealers at the casino.

[Felinity]

26. My description of Darth Cheney:

He looks like every investment banker I've ever met.


If you've never met any, more's the better for you.



Greed for power is the cocaine of the 21st Century.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. That makes it even WORSE. They can't enjoy the money, there's only the obsession of having more. -nt

It's a waste.

[GeorgeGist]

29. If you consider entertaining...

their accomplices - at investors and taxpayer expense - work.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. They should go inlist in Bush's war and rest up.

[Lucky Luciano]

32. I-Bankers are nuts....

Traders get paid the same and only work 50-60 hrs per week :)

[pitohui]

34. yeah so do most "people" these days

many a person making a minimum wage works 100 hours at 3 different jobs and all to have nothing at all financially so cry me a river about the investment bankers

they should all be in prison and the money distributed to the rest of us, frankly

they do nothing useful in this society

[90-percent]

39. I recall

I recall some recent factoid about working that the AVERAGE American worker is doing 55 hours a week.

I'm thankful I've got a pretty nice 40 hour per week job and I have no need to live lavishly. (I also qualify for O.T. pay after 40 hours!) You can only live in one home at a time and drive one car at a time, so accumulating such things doesn't seem desirable to me.

100 hours per week seems like serfdom or slavery type lifestyle.

-85% Jimmy

[stillcool]

44. It must be excruciatingly painful...

to be so close to the uber-wealthy, knowing it takes more than a few million to become one among their ranks, but at the same time doggedly trying to achieve just that. The chances of them achieving their place among the chosen requires them to do their job, but also focus intently on growing their own wealth, stepping gingerly along the legal line. Tax-time must be a horror, knowing how those they emulate receive Uncle Sam's pat on the head, but they themselves get kicked in the ass. One wrong move and it can be over in the blink of an eye. No wonder they vote republican...their blinders are so tight no one else exists.

[Lucky Luciano]

46. They are not all republicans...not even close.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. And you know this how?

95% of the wealthy people I know are repukes.

[Lucky Luciano]

51. I am in the industry.

I have not met one person admitting to liking *. I have seen people make anti-* comments though. People watch and enjoy The Daily Show. I have met former repubs. We all know * is a total disaster. We do avoid political conversations though because it can ruin relationships, so there may be some thugs who keep their mouths shut - I generally keep my political mouth shut here, but have hinted at disliking *. My formerly apolitical boss is now anti-*. He is originally from Virginia, so I told him about George Allen - it made his jaw drop - he was stunned by the racist comments. When he saw Allen concede, I heard him say, "Atta boy George!" There are numerous such examples. There are no leftists, but they are not thugs either. Well, there is one leftist...this Ukrainian statistician we work with is all about the C.C.C.P. days. He is also a psycho though (independently of his politics).

[Lucky Luciano]

56. i see you are from Kansas...I am from NYC

No wonder the wealthy people in our respective locations have different political affiliations...I mean 65% of the middle class in KS is pro-puke too!

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. They are changing to Dem here

The pukes have gone so far to the right that the ones with sense are becoming Dems - in droves.

I am sure you have heard about our nutty state school board. Thankfully, the conservatives no longer have a majority. The repubs got rid of the really crazy ones in the primary election in Auguat.

And the crazy state attorney general, Phill Kline, was beaten in November by a former repuke who turned Dem to run against Kline. BTW, Operation Rescue, that anti-abortion group, just named Kline its man of the year.

Also the guy who was just elected lieutenant governor was once head of the state repub party. He switched to Dem before he ran for office in November.

It's been interesting to say the least.

[Lucky Luciano]

101. Well, I am glad to hear that. I understand

that your governor is ok now too. There is hope. I just hope the democrats learn from the repubs about what being drunk with power is. I have hope also because of what Pelosi plans on doing - now let's see her execute.

[stillcool]

62. My intention was

to note what a precarious position those with earned modest fortunes must find themselves. But I suppose they too do not always vote in their best interests. Actually, if there were any real change to the system, they would profit the most through the reduction in their tax bill. But entrenched in the 'grow or go' position they find themselves I don't imagine they'd see it that way.

[Lucky Luciano]

63. I know what you are saying...* does not have the interests of those

who earn a few million a year at heart...the only people he favors are those with a net worth > $100M. All else are the peons. * is only working for 10,000 people in the US - probably less that that. He is also working for a few Saudis as well too - let us not forget.

[HamdenRice]

66. I'm not sure this is right

I used to work in the financial sector in New York, and I think your class analysis is a little off.

You are correct that most investment bankers are from middle class to upper middle class backgrounds trying to make the leap into uber wealthy class.

But most of the corporate executives they work with are pretty much from the same background -- technical experts who went to business school, work in the financial departments of the corporations, and manage the analysis and underwriting of the securities issuance. In many instances, the investment banker is wealthier than the corporate executive, but by and large they are pretty much upwardly mobile technocrats.

New York is not very much like Texas, where the wealthy tend to be of an inherited class position.

On Wall Street, the very top, wealthiest executives -- the ones with the massive stock options -- don't really get involved with the day to day work of issuing stocks and bonds.

The atmosphere is a bit different in a merger or hostile takeover, in which the top executives and the highest officers of the investment bank are all involved intimately.

[stillcool]

96. I'm sure you're right...

I grew up in the Hamptons, and was acquainted with different definitions and affectations of 'wealth', which I'm sure has colored my perception.

[leesa]

52. BFD. So they have to pay taxes and mortgages. So do we. Although

somehow I doubt they pay as much in taxes as I do, percentage wise. So much of this 'work time' is at the gym or at the restaurant or at the golf course or at the club that I don't think it's all that tough.

My BIL is an investment banker. He has plenty of time off and vacation time.

[hatrack]

55. Before I break down crying hot tears of sympathy, let's get out the calculator, shall we?

Let's take the example of the $40 million bonus awarded earlier this week.

OK, so 100 hours per week X 52 weeks per year = 5,200 hours annually.

$40 million/5,200 = $7,692.30 an hour for the Lucky Ducky at the head of Shearson Pendragon & Whatizface.

And before we weep for the lowly trader slaving to get by on a much smaller salary and bonus combo of, say, $2.5 million, that still works out to $480.77 an hour.

Have to go now - running to the nearest Osco for extra Kleenex.

[Lucky Luciano]

57. These guys work less than 100 hrs/wk

...and some head traders make more than the CEOs do.

[mondo joe]

58. I know I'm not willing to do a lot of the things you need to do to make that kind of money.

So I don't really begrudge them earning what they can.

But I do think the systems that support disparities in wage earning are a real problem.

[NNN0LHI]

60. Most of the time we were on mandatory 12 hours a day 7 days a week where I worked

And for a lot less money.

After a while it was just like working 40 hours. When we would go back to a 40 hour work week it felt like I was on vacation.

Don

[RestoreGore]

61. The buying and selling of humans

To make a profit done VOLUNTARILY illicits no sympathy from me.

[Ms. Clio]

64. oh wahhhhhhhh cry me a fucking river

one of the most asinine posts I've ever seen here.

[Lucky Luciano]

89. Love your doggy! nt

[Ms. Clio]

107. thank you! n/t

[Maestro]

69. No sympathies here.

I get up at 5:15am and I am at work by 7:30am. I live by 5:00pm, but many times I have to stay later. I deal with problem after problem. My work weeks are basically 9 1/2 hour days with no lunch. It is always a working lunch. That is about 48 hours a week not counting the days when I must stay later for whatever reason which is usually about twice a week minimum. So easily I work 50+ hours. I my income income is not even at 60K and I am in a supervisory position. I don't want to hear about how we should sympathize with these people. Perspective, meh...

[Nikia]

85. I am in a simliar situation

I am in a better situation than the people a step up from me at my comapany because I am salaried to 45 hours per week, getting paid for additional time. As a result, I am usually not expected to stay as late as some of them are. This is what is necessary to live a middle class lifestyle around here, complete with a nice $120,000-$180,000 home and Y membership. It better than doing back breaking work, but it isn't easy either.

[Maestro]

87. Yes, I know. We are better off than many people.

And I am infinitely grateful for that; however, it doesn't make it any easier. Especially, when one considers how much I put away for college for two kids.


P.S. I just read my first post. Man, it was like I was drunk writing that.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

70. As someone who works in a high power NYC corporate office, this is not exactly true.

Yea, what you say is basically true...that people work 80-100 hours a week. devote their lives to a job, get taxed hundred and hundreds of dollars on their income.

BUT, the people who are making these huge bonuses are NOT the drones doing the work. Please understand, they have underlings who (I was one of them) who would be told at 5:30 that they had to stay till 3 am to finish a project, so the "overseerer" can leave and then get credit for the project in the morning. I don't know a single "overseerer" that would stay in the office past maybe 7 or 8 PM the LATEST. Sure there are exceptions, but I can tell you that those 80-100 hour work weeks are not being had by the poeple who are getting 1 million dollar bouneses.

and ur sex theory is also BS. I have seen so much drunken debauchery, interoffice hookups, affiars....no one is lonley or desperate in this field.

[Lucky Luciano]

81. yea, but those same MDs put in their time when they

were young too. To get to their level, you do have to pay your dues.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

83. 'eh, i really don't think thats true anymore. People today don't devote

their life to one company....they move a lot. they get jobs by who they know and not their merit. The Managing Partner at my firm is the son of the last managing partner. I don't think he ever really worked low level work before.

[Lucky Luciano]

88. People definitely do not stay at one firm - true

They move when the next firm offers them triple their previous job's comp. There is no loyalty to a firm and the firm has no loyalty to a worker - people are doing this, as you know, with full knowledge that job volatility is quite high.

That said, becoming an MD is possible for any entry level front-office person - Most MDs busted their ass one time or another, but there are examples like yours too I suppose (I have not seen one yet). The back office people will have a tougher go of it of course. There is a certain kind of raw aggression that is required too. A shy, but very smart person hasn't got a fucking chance, which is why smart IT people get nowhere in the game.

My trading desk is a total meritocracy. Nobody but the head of the desk was from a privileged background....the head though has quite a lot of merit. He is extremely smart and absolutely knows what he is doing and how to run a business - something you can learn as a kid by watching your parents if you come from a privileged class. He is also in the trenches with us making the trades. He also started at the bottom and moved up because he kept making money for the bank.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Are yuo expecting for all of us to somehow go

POOR BABY?

Perhaps, and I am serious, you should post this diatribe at FR.

I work 80 and 100 hour weeks too... and your point is?

[WinkyDink]

74. Gee, just like the woman who told Bush she worked 3 jobs, to which he replied

something fatuous.

I'll bet she doesn't do any deals on golf courses, in strip clubs, or in restaurants, either.

[treestar]

79. Why don't they just make the job into two?

Employs two people and gives both people time for a life and they still have enough to not only support themselves but a family.

[chaska]

86. Are you shittin' me? Fuck those assholes. Anybody that loves money to that degree...

will NOT get my sympathies. They are a bunch of sick motherfuckers. And once they have it, they proceed to make the rest of us suffer, republicans that they are.

You sure you in the right place? Free Republic is two doors down.

[spanone]

91. You think the head of Goldman-Sachs works a 100 hour week. Dream on.

He got a 54 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS. I don't care if you work 168 hours a week.

[leftofthedial]

92. their compensation AND their lifestyles are criminal

sick, criminal and perverted

especially when you consider that the capitalist fruits of their labor are destroying our planet, enriching the few and impoverishing 98% of humanity.

sounds like "perspective" is what they need, not us.

[tabasco]

104. The military works round the clock.

Look somewhere else for sympathy.