Why exactly is Christmas a FEDERAL holiday?

[BushOut06]

I have no problem with private companies giving their employees the day off, that's well within their rights. But how does the US Government justify recognizing one particular religion's primary day as a federal holiday? What about all those who don't celebrate Christmas? No mail delivery, can't get a drivers license, can't get any government services that day. If government employees want the day off, let them use a personal day, on a first-come or seniority basis.

I'm well aware that the Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of Christmas as a federal holiday (at least I think they have). That still doesn't make it right, IMHO.

[NMDemDist2]

1. cuz if they didn't the employees would revolt n/t

[izzie]

2. I would say it is what the general voters wanted. That easy.

--

[LynneSin]

3. Because the bulk of people regardless of religion celebrate Xmas

To me the whole concept of Christmas is more secular than religious. It's the one time of year where we give presants and hope a man dressed in a red suit comes visiting in the middle of the night.

I think most companies including government now offer 'floater holidays' which allows for those who celebrate other religious holidays to take time off.

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. Drivers license?

You get your drivers license from the federal governemrnt? Most people get them from the state.

[BushOut06]

20. LOL, sorry - but still, it's government function

I guess in my little mini-rant, I blurred the lines of distinction there.

My point is that, if I were a non-Christian in this country, I might be a little upset that every government agency is closed down for what is essentially a religious holiday.

[Broadslidin]

5. But We're Running From Store to Store, celebrating a virgin birth and.....

:yoiks: Mary Cheney's Immaculate Conception....!

[skooooo]

21. lol...

good one

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Because They Hate Powerful Women?

I'm thinking it's because celebrating a holiday where men (Jesus, Santa) are the centers of attention keeps people from having a Goddess-centered solstice celebration.

(This is a joke, OK? I clearly need more coffee.)

[marmar]

7. LOL....

That's why Mrs. Claus has to stay home and knit the suit while Santa flies all around the world.

[MazeRat7]

9. Pretty impressive wit given it was sans caffine.... *tee hee -nt

[pitohui]

10. how do you figure?

on xmas jesus is a newborn in a crib, his mom is the goddess who was able to give birth w.out the intervention or sperm contribution of a male -- and who then was able to convince a wealthy powerful male to keep her and the kid rather than putting them on the durn street

and you say this is not a holiday about powerful women?

it's all about women, who controls the shopping, who controls the food, who is the star chef and organizer of christmas, it's women my friend, at least in most households in the south it is

what mama wants, mama gets -- she gets the new toyota with a red bow on top, he gets another damn "witty" tie

i'm almost embarrassed at time to mention my gifts compared to my hubby's gifts but it is what it is, christmas is very much for women and children in my view

[Branjor]

16. Nothing woman centered about it....

In Christian myth, poor Mary is raped by the Holy Spirit (male), whereupon she gives birth to a male offspring who is *her* God, not vice versa, and to whom she must bow down. Joseph is the guy who actually gave the sperm (hint: where else would Jesus get his y chromosome from? Actual parthenogenesis without sperm would result in a daughter).

Controlling of shopping, food, etc. Translation: All the work and drudgery is hers.

New Toyota with the red bow on top: Well, after all she does, she darn well deserves it!

Dad's "witty" tie: My condolences to him. Or, on the other hand, maybe *his* present is yet another *male* deifying holiday, one she never gets.

[pitohui]

31. well that's a pretty negative spin if you ask me

honestly i just don't see it, i can go into any old-time cathedral or church around and i see mary, dressed in the blue robes of the goddess of the sea, with a baby she boldly proclaims she gave birth to by virgin birth, w.out any input except from some invisible guy who came in a dream, which i don't quite consider to be rape by any stretch of the imagination, and joseph just has to eat it and get on w. paying the taxes and finding a decent hotel which he even fell down on that part of the job, typical bumbling fallible male and it all becomes a running family joke about how their first kid was born in a manger and all their royal friends had to bring them gifts amongst the donkeys!

powerful male holiday? i'm just not seeing it, sorry!

[Bridget Burke]

36. (On a side note) If you're ever in DC....

Visit the basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. It's a huge neo-Byzantine barn with chapels for just about every avatar of Mary venerated by Catholics.

www.nationalshrine.com/site/pp.asp?c=etITK6OTG&b=106948

I'm long-lapsed, but found it a wonderful place to check out various faces of The Goddess.

[Branjor]

41. Isn't "spin" at all....

It is the reality. And sure it's rape, spiritual rape. She didn't CHOOSE to be impregnated by this dream guy, the Holy Spirit, he came to her and INFORMED her that she was to be "the Mother of God." This was the Annunciation.

If you don't see the birth of a human male who is supposed to be God himself as a poweful male holiday, then I am afraid that your version of it is spin.

Mary in her blue robes - yes, she is the remnant of the once powerful Goddess (God Herself) and we can see it in her beautiful robes and in the reverent homage to her paid by Catholics. Also, some of her titles, such as "Queen of Heaven". Are you Catholic? Mary is a quasi deity in Catholicism, but is demoted by the later Protestant faiths. Still, it is her son, not she, who is the God of Catholicism. I guess that's the spectacle of "powerful" women in patriarchy - the Mother on her knees to her own son.

[pitohui]

8. jesus effin' christ, let us try being reality based for a moment

you have a nation where hundreds of millions of people are either christian or of christian heritage and are obligated to show up and put in an appearance at the family home for the holidays

it is just simple common sense that you need to declare a holiday and be realistic about it because otherwise everyone will just have to call in sick anyways

christ

i don't think we need to get on a crusade to get rid of one of the very, very, very few days off that americans enjoy -- we already have fewer days off than any other civilized nation

christmas needs to be a federal holiday because otherwise the corporate scrooges would work us to death on that day as well as all others, it is not like there is any great number of federal holidays you know!

once progressives fought to get us more time off, not less

[hlthe2b]

11. You know...when I was working in Egypt..

I received numerous Christmas cards from Egyptian Muslims and Coptic Christians alike....They routinely send them--something I dare say most Americans would never believe. Ditto, that most Muslims perceive Christ to be an important prophet. So, I'm guessing if they don't have a problem with Christmas, maybe, just maybe we could give it a rest, eh? I'm not trying to be hypercritical of the OP. I think they are just curious and asking a valid question. But, as much as I find disdain for the RW efforts to exploit Christmas, I sometimes find it difficult to see us becoming intolerant as a result.

And, just so you know,I'm about as secular as they come (and as cynical as any about the commercialization of Christmas). Frankly, I think the original pagan roots are just fine to acknowledge as Christmas. Christ, after all, was clearly not born in December...:shrug:

To each his own...

[drm604]

12. It's a matter of practicality,

"If government employees want the day off, let them use a personal day, on a first-come or seniority basis."

If 90+% of your employees don't show up for work on that day then it's a waste for a company to open the plant or office. Same with government offices. If you try to limit the number who can take off on that day you might very well face open disobedience.

Jewish people, for example, can use personal days or floating holidays for their celebrations. Should we tell them that we're limiting the percentage of them that can take off a certain day? Of course not, and we also can't do that with Christians.

It's simply a matter of bowing to reality.

[pecwae]

13. Basically that's it.

When I worked for the fed and asked why Xmas, but not any other religious holiday I was told it was for practical purposes, a bow to tradition.

[UTUSN]

14. Why? Why, to give O'LOOFAH a cover story for govt sponsored religion n/t

[BoneDaddy]

15. I would say

that in an overhwhelmingly Christian culture, it would be the will of the people.

It is stuff like this that gives the impression there may actually be a "war on Christmas".

[Squatch]

17. Why ask why?

Just let us enjoy a goddamned day off.

[PVnRT]

18. No! The OP NEEDS his driver's license on Christmas day!

:eyes:

Seriously, dumb. God forbid we have things like "holdiays" where you can get a day off from work.

[LSK]

19. I can see freepers zeroing in on this thread and saying see

The DUers and Dems do hate Christmas.

[skooooo]

23. Because someone asked a question?

God forbid anyone should think.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

22. Dumbest. Post. Ever.

Think before you type.

[BushOut06]

26. Oh please...

I merely challenged why Christmas should be a federal holiday, when other major religious holidays don't get this treatment. I'm asking others to THINK - and I get villified because I have the audacity to challenge tradition?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

29. No, you got villified for lacking any sort of common sense.

If every private business closes by choice, and pretty much every employee will either take vacation, call in sick, or just flat out not show up to work, what sense at all does it make to not have a holiday? It has nothing to do with the religion, but the sheer fact that it is economically idiotic to open.

THAT is why this is the dumbest thread ever.

[BushOut06]

24. Didn't really mean to sound like a Grinch - basically questioning the Constitutionality of it

Although I suppose Congress can declare any day a holiday that it darn well chooses. I'll just leave it at that. Didn't mean to make it sound like I was anti-Christmas - heck, I'll be celebrating it with my family. I merely wanted to get a lively discussion going on the merits of Christmas as an actual federal holiday. I fully admit I probably came across sounding like a snarly Scrooge.

[rodeodance]

25. It has its beginnings in the early Labor contracts (unions)----read that

somewhere. It makes sense for workers to negotiate days off with pay.

[teenagebambam]

27. It makes at LEAST as much sense

as any other Federal Holiday you could name, with the possible exception of Independence Day. I mean, really, President's Day? Labor Day?

[1monster]

28. Christmas is not really a sacred holiday. The churches only made

Christmas a sacred holiday as a way to do away with pagan celebrations.

December 25 was not the birthday of Jesus (who was probably born in the spring or early summer -- shepherds were out watching their flocks by night means warm weather). It was the birthday of the Roman adopted Persian god Mithra (another sacrificed god) who preceded Jesus.

There were many midwinter celebrations long before December 25 was declared Christmas. Christmas was often a very raucous celebration with drinking, lewd behavior, and thuggery all part of the festive events.

Cromwellian England outlawed Christmas celebrations with fines levied on those who showed the "Christmas Spirit." The Puritans who came to this country in 1620 also outlawed Christmas.

It wasn't until the early mid 19th century that Christmas began to be celebrated in this country and then it was a secular holiday, a winter festival, not a sacred holiday. The chruches still avoided Christmas until the mid to late 1800s when they decided to get into the action and make "Jesus the reason for the season."

Historically, Christmas is a winter festival with pagan roots that long predates the birth of Jesus.

The winter festival also known as Christmas is not a religious holiday; it is a secular holiday and will probably remain so, despite the attempts of various religions to take it over as their own, whether we call it Yule, Winter Solstice, Christmas, or any other appellation,

[pitohui]

30. i would consider this to be sacred

it is a link with our ancient past and with humankind down through the ages that we have always had our winter holiday time to get together with family and to feast

it is linked to the turn of the seasons and the solstice and the dark days changing over to the light

what really is more sacred than that?

[1monster]

32. You have a good point.....

I wonder how Falwell or O'(there's a war on Christmas)Reilly would react to that? }(

[tinfoilinfor2005]

33. This would be my guess...

"You'll want all day to-morrow, I suppose?" said Scrooge.

"If quite convenient, sir."

"It's not convenient," said Scrooge, "and it's not fair. If I was to stop half-a-crown for it, you'd think yourself ill-used, I'll be bound?"

The clerk smiled faintly.

"And yet," said Scrooge, "you don't think me ill-used, when I pay a day's wages for no work."

The clerk observed that it was only once a year.

"A poor excuse for picking a man's pocket every twenty-fifth of December!" said Scrooge, buttoning his great-coat to the chin. "But I suppose you must have the whole day. Be here all the earlier next morning."

The clerk promised that he would; and Scrooge walked out with a growl.

[cwydro]

38. Very good!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :applause: :applause:

[tinfoilinfor2005]

39. Old Chuck, he had a way with words!

:)

(Should have given Mr. Dickens credit in the post, but I don't think he'll be suing me. Now, if I happen to see the ghost of old Marley when I get home from work tonight...no more Mojitos for me!)

(More rain today up here in Key Largo. Is Key West getting all this junk too??)
:hi:

[cwydro]

42. Surely everyone knows Dickens!

Sorry about your rain...the sun is out here.:hi:

Have a mojito for me! There is whisky and eggnog in my future (after work.)

And Merry Christmas!

[NYCGirl]

34. Either this is a dumb thread, or you're doing a hell of a Scrooge impression.

Bah humbug! indeed.

[BushOut06]

35. See post #24

n/t

[Bridget Burke]

37. I've worked with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains....

And a few Buddhists. Along with the usual assortment of Agnostics/Atheists.

None of them has ever complained about getting a few days off at Christmas! Our time-off plan allows plenty of lee-way for other holidays.

Lighten up.

[fishwax]

40. Christmas is necessary in our industrial capitalist society

It allows us to redirect our energies (theoretically) towards giving instead of consuming, thus assuaging our guilt about inequities created by the system. It is not a coincidence that it became a federal holiday in 1870, at the dawn of the gilded age in America. Nor is it a coincidence that the first and most famous christmas classic tale was written by the writer most famous for negotiating the industrial impact on England, Charles Dickens.

Aside from that, I think the argument that Christmas ought not be a federal holiday is absurd. Christmas is something celebrated by an overwhelming majority of Americans (including many who aren't Christian). The government is recognizing the will of majority not to work on that day. They are not recognizing a particular religion's primary day. (Christmas is not the primary day of any religion I know save capitalism--the primary day in christianity is easter.)

Offices are closed on Sunday, too, which is a residual of the idea of keeping holy the sabbath day. Perhaps you think that workers should have to use a personal day to get Sundays off as well :eyes:.

[Little Wing]

43. Sweeet! More ammo for FoxNews!

Thanks!

[BushOut06]

45. That's my mantra: piss off freepers, one day at a time

I love nothing more than to piss them off. I also love debating, but since it's virtually impossible to engage in an intelligent debate with freepers, I tend to do much of my debating with fellow DUers.

[hiaasenrocks]

44. You can work for me on Monday. My house needs painting.