Is there any 1 person considered the father of US outsourcing?

[Lost4words]

does anyone know?

[NashVegas]

1. Kicking - Great Question

Keep asking.

The answer most likely is in the first free trade agreements, among those companies that took to owning manufacturing concerns overseas (as opposed to purchasing the goods from an exporter).

[wuushew]

2. Who ever sent the first tv plant to Mexico

The CEO of Sylvania maybe? I really don't know, since it was before my time.

[rurallib]

3. This is opinion only

but I would say Milton Friedman applied by Ronald Reagan. My opinion is not well researched or anything.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. William Jefferson Clinton

Bush I got the ball rolling, but the Big Dawg never met a "free" trade agreement he didn't love - NAFTA, opening the doors to China... he looked at the Middle Class like a concentration camp inmate looks at a roasted turkey.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. NAFTA and welfare "reform" were two of Clinton's policies that seem

at odds with his apparent core political philosophies.

MKJ

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. How was welfare reform at odds with his apparent core political philosophies?

He actually ran on that issue in 1992. He wanted to help those who "work hard and play by the rules."

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

23. So, welfare recipients didn't "work hard and play by the rules"? Is that your argument?

It appears Clinton struggled with it, as the, who else, repubs shoved it down the country's throat.

Even as Clinton signed the measure, women's groups and advocates for the poor protested along Pennsylvania Avenue, vowing to carry their dispute to the Democratic convention in Chicago next week.

Whatever divisiveness it has inspired, the bill's enactment is likely to be remembered as a defining moment for Clinton, who vetoed two previous versions and battled with himself over whether to reject this measure as well.

Endorsed by the ultimate repub, Bob Dole, ending a program that kept people from starving and having nowhere to live...(bolding mine)

In a statement, Republican presidential nominee Bob Dole praised the bill and said it would be remembered as a Republican victory. "My only regret today is that President Clinton did not join with us sooner in helping end a welfare system that has failed the taxpayers and those it was designed to serve," Dole said. "After two vetoes of similar welfare reform bills, President Clinton knew he couldn't afford a third strike."

The bill ends the long-standing cash-assistance known as Aid to Families with Dependent Children, abolishing an entitlement created 61 years ago that guarantees that any eligible poor person can receive aid.

It's worked out great, hasn't it, taking away the safety net for those who are in the most desperate circumstances.

Now the only recipient of massive welfare programs are the global corporations.


From a WP article....http://www-tech.mit.edu/V116/N31/clinton.31w.html MKJ

[ProfessorGAC]

15. You Should Try The Truth Next Time

A little research would help. The outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries began in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Nearly half of GM's cars were assembled in Mexico and Canada by the mid-80's and with it went lots of jobs from places like Pontiac and Flint.

The movement of major corporations to Mexico predates NAFTA by almost 20 years. NAFTA has had less than 10% of the impact claimed by folks i'm sure you would agree with. The movement had already begun, long before, and NAFTA made almost no difference along the growth curve of that activity. If there were no NAFTA, some economists project that the movement of jobs south of the border would be statistically indistinguishable from today. I'm one of them, but hardly the only one. I see NOTHING in the data to suggest that the growth curve of job movement has changed due to NAFTA. So, if you want to have a chip on your shoulder over Clinton and NAFTA, be my guest. Just know that it's unwarranted.
The Professor

[MannyGoldstein]

20. Oh GOOD - Attacking Stats That I Did Not Cite, Big Guy

You are attacking statistics that I did not cite. Nice trick.

NAFTA only sodomized the Middle Class as little as it did because "free" trade with China was so much more successful for the Predator Class. The raging success of The Big Dawg's "free" trade with China policies actually decreased jobs in Mexico - they moved to even-lower-wage china. (Just a coincidence that he used Wal-Mart corporate jets for his 1992 campaign, yes?)

While Clinton was not the first cheerleader for transferring American Middle Class jobs to tiny-wage, tiny-regulation countries, he was far-and-away the most effective at it.

[Malikshah]

28. And yet the OP was about the "father" not someone who

"was effective at it"

B- for effort
F for results.

Do play again, though. :)

[KansDem]

30. Roger Smith?

Nearly half of GM's cars were assembled in Mexico and Canada by the mid-80's and with it went lots of jobs from places like Pontiac and Flint.

Micheal Moore in his movie Roger and Me (1989) tells how Smith closed down plants in Flint and moved them to Mexico. I don't know if he was the first to do this, but due to the enormity of this strategy and the damaging effects it had on the population of Flint, perhaps he could be considered "The Father of Outsourcing."

[leveymg]

6. The first true multinationals were the oil companies.

They "owned" the drilling concessions and subsidiaries abroad -- often purchased (or leased for 99 years) at pennies to the dollar of their actual worth. Profits and supplies were moved around the world to minimize taxes and maintain profit margins. That's still the way that business operates, and is the model for others.

The first American industry that offshored its manufacturing in a major way was textiles. U.S. ownership of foreign mills goes back a long way before, but up until the 1960s, most clothes that were purchased in the U.S. were also made here.

[Done]

7. Sam Walton nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. There is never ONE person for any historical development

I truly despair about the peculiar and stupid way that we teach history as biography in this country. There is no one person, even in the case of the supposed "genius" inventor. There are always complex historical forces: the people are both part of those forces and their results. But that's not how we teach history. We teach it like it's a narrative, where you can identify heroes and villians. This is childish stuff, and enfeebles our analyses and political strategies. Outsourcing is an outcome of extremely complex historical forces, from the general economic restructuring of the 1960's and early 1970's, to the collapse of European colonialism and the emergence of neo-colonialism, to a series of developments in information and transportation technologies. Each of these can be further analyzed: the economic restructuring resulted in large from a series of problems that plagued the capitalist system in its pervious form, and itself has a number of features (free-floating finance capital \relies on money unmoored from the gold standard and, indeed, from production of commodities itself; the rise of the ccredit system, etc. - each of which developed contingently as a response to the collapse of Keynesianism).

Looking for ONE person may be morally satisfying (really, self-satisfying), but it is really a fruitless and even stupid project. You'll get answers, I'm sure, but they'll all be wrong. History doesn't work that way.

[Lost4words]

12. I know that, dont insult my intelligence!

And dont even refer to what I do with my time as "but it is really a fruitless and even stupid project."

Did I refer to your post as a stupid waste of time?

I'll make that decision if you dont mind. And I didn't need a history lesson.

You gave me allot of text that amounts to dribble as far as my original question.

If I want someone to analyze my reason for a very general question, I'll PM you Big brother.

Reread your post to me, does it sound condescending to you as well, dispute what ever your intentions were. I believe your reply was, as in your own words "really a fruitless and even stupid project".

Next time just ask me directly professor!

8643

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Whatever

It's a public board. Be prepared for criticism.

[Lost4words]

16. I didnt start off calling your projects stupid and a waste of time.

Now did I? Try to up your communication skills so you can make your point without disparaging others. Civility is an art you have no knowledge of apparently.


But your real good with pompous. Mr. Smarty Pants!

But dont worry you might gain these skills when you are a little older.

Ha HA HA Ha HA HA Ha HA HA Ha HA HA Ha HA HA Ha HA HA Ha HA HA Ha HA HA Ha HA HA !


WHATEVER!

[Ian David]

18. Whoever you're replying to is on my ignore list. You might be better off ignoring them too. n/t

[Lost4words]

21. Good point, thanks!

[Ian David]

25. I can't hear him.... la la la la la... can't hear him... la la la la! n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. A proud day for you, sir

:rofl:

[Ian David]

27. What's funny is, I can tell that SOMEONE keeps trying to reply to me...

because it says I have replies to my messages.

But then I can't see who it is or what they're saying.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. I couldn't give a fuck less whether you see it

Everyone else gets to see what a cowardly route the ignore function is, and how foolishly you insist on behaving. I mean "Lalalala - I can't hear you"?

:rofl:

This from - presumably - a grown man. My posts are for the public. Not for you.

[Ian David]

39. There it goes again. A never-ending source of amusement now. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Yes, you are amusing

We can go all night.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. It's rare in most settings to see cowardice and fatuousness

celebrated, but some people seem to revel in it.

:rofl:

[conscious evolution]

29. Ian is right

Some people show up here to heckle and ridicule others on a consistant basis.You should learn to ignore them.

[Ian David]

31. Perhaps he should hit "Alert" first before hitting ignore? n/t

[conscious evolution]

33. Some are to slick for that

to work.They know how to go right up to the line and not cross over.
They were trained well.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Yes, at the Maxwell Smart Academy (the training was intense)

You folks are really something else. The OP accuses me of personal attacks, when I made none, and he did.

You accuse me of being a troll, but "going right up to the line, but not crossing it." Needless to say, that is precisely what YOU are doing with the troll accusation rule.

In addition to the juvenile responses to each other rather than to me directly, you are all also masters of projection, accusing me of the very faults that you are yourselves committing in the accusation. It's laughable, dishonest, and - above all - COWARDLY.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Oh my

I said nothing disparaging about YOU. I said the project was silly, which is a different thing altogether. You, on the other hand, have personally attacked me at least five times in the last two posts. I'll refrain from taking lessons on civility or maturity from you, then. In fact, with the weird laughter bit, your posts seem a bit unstable, if anything.

The Great Man theory of history IS stupid. That doesn't mean that YOU'RE stupid. It means that the assumptions that warrant your question are stupid. These are culturally common, and have little, if anything, to do with you. If I do have any advice for you, it is to develop a thicker skin. If you fly off half-cocked and ranting like this any time someone presses you a bit on a point, then you are the one violating the rules of civility that you claim so much to cherish.

[Lost4words]

9. I guess I should have focused on IT outsourcing.

which makes a TV plant look like nothing. More jobs left the country for IT than any other industry and it happened on a large scale and over a shorter peroid.

And YES Clinton did screw the middle class and was no friend to the working class either.

So, Who Is the Father, or Mother, of US IT outsourcing?

[leveymg]

13. All the largest IT companies are still US/ Euro based

Here the Forbes 2000 Global companies list -- among the technology service companies, India and China don't even make the list: http://www.forbes.com/lists/results.jhtml?passListId=18&passYear=2005&passListType=Company&searchParameter1=unset&searchParameter2=unset&resultsHowMany=100&resultsSortProperties=%2Bstringfield3%2C%2Bnumberfield1&resultsSortCategoryName=category&fromColumnClick=true&bktDisplayField=stringfield3&bktDisplayFieldLength=3&category1=category&category2=category&passKeyword=&resultsStart=1601

Offshoring is a huge business, and hundreds of thousands of jobs that were previously located in the U.S. have been subcontracted abroad, but the US is still the money center for the industry. That should tell you why this has happened. The policy-makers in both parties have been far more concerned about retaining capital than employment in the U.S.

If someone can figure out an argument that can convince elites that middle-class wages are as important as corporate profits, I'd like to hear it.

[sandnsea]

10. 1970s - shoes

I don't know who the person would be, but the first industry I really remember being outsourced was shoes to S Korea. If you're really interested, you might dig into who wrote those trade laws. There were jobs programs for US shoe workers way back then.

[Red Zelda]

11. The voter

Hold up a mirror. We let it happen.

[Lost4words]

19. AAGGHHH! I am pulling my hair out.

Once apon a time in TV land, I watched a short report on Outsourcing IT jobs from US to India.

They showed a tall white guy with a receding hair line who started one of the first companies to specialize in IT outsourcing. The TV reporter, refereed this man as, low and behold, the father of US IT outsourcing.

All I wanted to know, for my own edification mind you all, Who the PERSON was/is so I could further my research, what some have called a waste of time and stupid.

All I wanted was the guys name, obviously he is not considered the father of US IT outsourcing if no one here knows who I am referring to.

what a friday morning cluster-f this thread has become.

I really was not aware that so many on this board support this practice by either believing that it is beneficial, predictable and/or unavoidable to/for the working class in our country.

:crazy:

[leftstreet]

36. Is this the guy?

"Azim Premji- Father of the Indian Outsourcing phenomenon"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azim_Premji

[leveymg]

41. Googled "father of IT outsourcing". Here's a link and a face -

Outsourcing - BPO / ITES - Indiatimes Infotech
David Andrews, popularly known as the `father of outsourcing' and author of `How BPO can boost productivity' throws some light on the future of outsourcing. ...
infotech.indiatimes.com/uncomp/articlelist/30468218.cms - 65k - Cached - Similar pages

Google is your friend. Use it.



I'll agree with the previous poster, however, that Azim Premji is probably your guy. WIPRO is a big company, but at $2.3 B in revenues, its small potatoes compared to the large US-based IT companies.

[HughBeaumont]

32. In general, most likely Jack Welch.

One of the most classless and compassion-void CEOs in history, Neutron Jack helped steamroll the trend of the wealthy sticking their boot in the middle class of America in the early-mid 80s by relocating GE plants offshore for good, firing the bottom 10% of managers, reducing payrolls and encouraging followers and executives to do the same (which they did in droves). He's also a staunch believer in "the free market", scoffs at offshoring opponents and also opposes the Sarbanes-Oxley act. In other words, this guy's a restaurant quality piece of shit.

I wouldn't piss on this guy's grave to water its daisies.

[chaska]

34. Milton Friedman? Ronald Reagan?

[Kelly Rupert]

35. Adam Smith. n/t