Shoppers flee after gunshot in Costco restroom

[uppityperson]

Would this qualify for the "war on christmas" files?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003490506_webgunshot22.html
Shoppers began fleeing a Costco store Thursday after a man in a restroom stall dropped his pistol, accidentally firing a bullet into the wall, a Spokane County sheriff's spokesman said.

The 59-year-old man, who was not identified by the sheriff's office, was released after deputies determined he had a valid concealed weapon permit and hadn't broken any laws. Deputies said the man was carrying the .357-caliber semiautomatic pistol in a shoulder holster, but it fell out while he was in a restroom stall around noon on Thursday, Sgt. Dave Reagan said in a statement.

Another patron in the restroom alerted store employees after looking over the stall to find the gun owner fumbling with the pistol. Costco workers began evacuating the building, and deputies were called to the scene.

Authorities said the pistol was designed not to misfire when dropped, and deputies suggested the owner have it checked for defects. They also said the ammunition was several years old, and the bullet that was fired did not manage to penetrate the restroom wall.

[aikoaiko]

1. An unlikely explanation for what was probably a negligent firing of a gun.

"accidents" rarely.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

7. Agreed ...

The guy did something so dumb he doesn't want to talk about it. At least not to the police. "It dropped, and just went off" my ass.


Oh, well, at least nobody got hurt.

[havocmom]

15. Yep, instead of police suggesting the man get the gun checked out

they might consider going over his permit application with a fine tooth comb. And it wouldn't hurt to ask around COSTCO if anybody there might know the chap and have a beef with him. Then, a check for any complaints by him or about him recently.

Have the gun checked out... indeed.

Old ammo? Don't the cover that in gun safety classes anymore?

[Squatch]

18. I have ammo from about 25 years ago that I still use.

Hand-me-down plinking ammo from my old man. The stuff is nearly as old as I am, and I've never had any problems with it.

[havocmom]

19. Plinking with old ammo fine

Fresh in the carry is the rule coach laid down. If you NEED it to work, you want all the edge you can get ;)

[Squatch]

21. Still, I have yet to have a problem with old ammo

(provided it's been stored/handled properly through the years) Went out for a 50 caliber MG qualification last month. The ammunition was from 1965 and the only malfunctions we had were because of the headspace and timing of the weapon and not due to any problems with the ammo.

But, you're right. It's nice to know that you have newly manufactured ammo in your weapon for when it really counts.

[Atman]

2. Sure it wasn't the nacho's from the Costco food court?

Yikes!

[originalpckelly]

38. Now that's explosive diarrhea.(nt)

[rfranklin]

3. Discharging a weapon in a public place is not a crime?

Wow! That's cool. I think I'll go down to Costco for target practice in the men's room.

[havocmom]

16. Go to Sam's Club if you wanna do that sort of thing!

No point in driving customers outta a place that treats their workers better and contributes blue!

[Squatch]

20. I've frequently discharged my firearms in public places

In fact, that's pretty much where I do my shooting, exclusively.

Now, I'm sure that as a private business, Costco might have some sort of policy forbidding the routine discharge of firearms.

[rfranklin]

22. You shoot in playgrounds and town squares?

Cool!

[Xenotime]

25. Good question. Why isn't this guy in jail?

He should have his license revoked.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I'm glad no one was hurt!

But I do think it prudent, before carrying a weapon, to make sure the firearm is properly cleaned and free of defects.

[notadmblnd]

41. not to mention.....

properly holstered.

[Warpy]

5. I'm surprised that doesn't happen more often

I once knew a junkie (nice guy, could trust him with my life but not with five dollars) who disappeared from the area for a few days. We all feared the worst, but he finally reappeared. We asked him where he'd been and he told us, "Aw, I was playing with my gun in my pants pocket and shot myself inna dink."

I'm always fearful of the facist airhead rummaging in her purse for her cigs or cellphone discharging her Lady Smith in a crowd. I'm astonished I haven't read about that one, too.

CCW is mostly nuts.

[RamboLiberal]

14. CCW is not nuts. CCW without a good quality holster

that holds the gun, is built for your model of gun, and covers the trigger is what is nuts. Putting a gun in your waistband w/o a holster is an invitiation to wrecking your "equipment" if you're male.

[benEzra]

23. As an authorized CCW licensee who carries a LadySmith...

I'd say you have a lot more to worry about from the junkie who carries a gun in his pocket and "plays with it" (!!!). CCW holders have arrest rates below that of police officers, and probably lower ND rates as well, though I don't have citations at the moment.

My wife carries a Glock (G26), and does NOT carry it "in her purse." She has a well-set-up holster for it, as would most women (women are in general no less competent with guns than men are, contrary to media stereotypes).

The nice thing about the S&W's (well, any quality handgun, really) is that you could throw it off a building and it wouldn't go off. Multiple redundant safeties, etc. BUT, it will go off if you pull the trigger like a nimrod, which may be what happened here. I have heard of a number of police officers having negligent discharges after dropping a firearm, and trying to grab it in the air to keep it from hitting the floor, and accidentally grabbing it by the trigger, and firing it. If it falls, let it fall (it's drop-safe, dammit!), and pick it up; don't go grabbing it in midair like you're Jet Li.

BTW, there are some discrepancies in the OP article that I wonder about. The police say "old ammunition," but the .357 SIG caliber hasn't been on the market for more than a few years (I guess "several years" could be three or four, though, so that's probably what it was). There are a very few pistols chambered for the .357 Magnum (revolver cartridge), the most famous of which is the Desert Eagle (insert mall ninja jokes here). Those suckers are HUGE (dimensionally, not caliber-wise) and would be tough to conceal unless the guy is the size of a football player.

[Warpy]

27. Note I specified "fascist airheads" in my post

[benEzra]

30. LOL...good point (n/t)

[ieoeja]

28. What are you so afraid of?

Why do you carry a gun? Why does your wife?

My family got into a brief feud with a bunch of drug dealers once. My dad pistol-whipped one guy out of my brother's house (my brother was not there). My mom shot a few who came by the house later to harrass her. My dad then went to the bar where the dealers hung out and started taking notes on their activities. When threatened he laid his firearm on the bar and invited them to go for theirs.

But other than during that conflict, my dad did not routinely carry a firearm.

[benEzra]

31. We're not...

my wife originally got a CCW license because we lived in the boonies, in a rented home with a styrofoam front door, far enough from our nearest neighbors that shooting a shotgun in our front yard probably wouldn't have been heard (I occasionally set up targets and did some recreational plinking with a .22). Yes, we had prowlers occasionally, and I was working a lot of late nights at the time. When my wife was home alone, or when she would take our 19-lb bichon frise attack dog :) for walks, she wanted to be able to be discreetly armed. IMHO, that's a reasonable precaution; she's 5 feet tall, so she's not going to be beating anybody up. She also carried a good OC spray, since a firearm is always a LAST resort, and she was/is competent with both.

I got my carry license around the same time she did, as I recall. My sister (professional engineer who works odd hours and lives alone) also has a carry license.

Another factor is, if you don't have a CCW permit, it is very easy to unknowingly commit a felony when traveling with a firearm (gun in the glove compartment is legal in Florida, felony in North Carolina, for example).

FWIW, my wife also has a fire extinguisher in the back of her vehicle, as do I. Neither of us is "scared of fires," but it's a simple and expedient measure to have one, and if you had to be licensed to carry a fire extinguisher to have one in your car, I'd have an extinguisher license too.

[Little Wing]

6. License Revoked

[cwydro]

17. That's what should happen.

[Catherine Vincent]

8. That type of incident happened in the apartments I used to live in.

I am thankful that I didn't get shot and killed. The guy that lived below me worked for the sheriff's department. I just arrived home from work and I was standing in front of the mirror in the rest room wiping off my lipstick and I heard this loud bang. I went out to the living area and looked around, didn't see anything. I didn't look out the windows because it sounded as if it came from the inside. Then I check the bedroom and didn't notice anything unusual. Then about ten minutes later I get this knock on my door and I look through the peep hole and didn't recognize who it was. I wasn't going to open the door but I noticed the guy had shorts and no shoes on and was wondering if it was my neighbor. So I opened the door and he was all nervous saying that his gun had accidently went off while he was in his bedroom and he wanted to make sure everything was alright. He wanted to check my bedroom to see if the bullet came through the ceiling. We checked the floor under my bed and there was no hole. He said it must have lodged into the wood on the floor. This was several years ago, I was very lucky that I wasn't in my bed at the time. I couldn't figure out what the hell he was doing for his gun to go off like that because I know these guns have safety latches.

[RamboLiberal]

10. Safety Latches - Not beating on you

Just wanted to explain. Some guns have safeties some don't. Usually it's a lever on side of the gun the users pushes with thumb on drawing the weapon, in addition some also have a grip safety that is activated by your grip on the gun. The gun most police now carry, the Glock, does not have these safety devices.

What probably happened in your case is the cop below you was negligent and had his finger on the trigger. Maybe he thought his weapon wasn't loaded, maybe he was doing something holstering/unholstering. Or in case it was a Glock you have to pull the trigger before you can take the slide off to clean the weapon. Hate to tell you, but many cops have a bad reputation in the shooting community for not being exactly careful about weapon handling.

[Catherine Vincent]

13. No problem. I don't know anything about guns.

And I am sure the officer wasn't paying attention when he handled his gun. Thank goodness I moved not long after that.

[benEzra]

24. Could have been a revolver (revolvers don't have manual safeties)

or he could have just been an idiot and flicked the safety off and pulled the trigger, assuming the gun was empty.

Most police agencies issued revolvers until the 1980's or so.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

26. Even if it was a revolver ...

... he'd either have to pull back the hammer to cock it, or pull the trigger through a long heavy double-action. Both pretty unlikely for an "accident".

I like the "grabbed it because it was falling" theory, and my money's on it being a Glock, with that moronic "safety in the middle of the trigger" thing.

[benEzra]

32. I was speaking of cat_girl25's incident

with an ND by an off-duty police officer. "Dry-firing" after forgetting the gun is actually loaded is one of the more common causes of an ND at home, often before/during cleaning. (Pointing the gun at the ceiling and pulling the trigger is not an acceptible method of verifying that a gun is unloaded, but apparently some people think it is...)

Regarding the incident in the OP, I agree with you that the "grabbed it because it was falling" is indeed the most likely scenario. It's not likely he was cleaning his gun in the loo...

Following police practice, a lot of handguns besides Glocks are designed to be carried in a trigger-will-fire condition. The thing is, such guns should be in a holster, and if the trigger guard isn't protected, it ought not be in Condition One. My wife has a Glock (G26), and she keeps it in Condition Three unless it's in a rigid holster.

Personally, I'm not sure why this guy's gun was out of the holster--you don't have to remove a shoulder holster to go to the loo unless you are wearing a leotard--still pondering that one. Maybe an el cheapo holster, or one not designed for his particular handgun?

[RamboLiberal]

35. Shoulder Holster - I agree - probably an el cheapo holster

or not made for that model. Most shoulder holsters also have a snap strap to assure retention of the gun.

[RamboLiberal]

9. Here's my bet - the gun didn't fire by itself

What commonly happens in these cases is the gun starts to drop, owner tries to catch it, finger gets in trigger, BANG!

Most guns don't fire when dropped - manufacturers really extensively test them. It can happen though - especially with some el-cheapo guns - doubt if a .357 was an el-cheapo.

Doubt the ammunition age was the problem. A couple of years is usually no problem for good quality ammo.

Doesn't happen often, but the restroom is probably the most common place for an accidental discharge to happen cause thet's of course where people are partially disrobing to use facilities.

Another thing that happens is people forget their weapon in the restroom. I've read of several Federal agents doing this. TSA and Secret Service if I'm remembering correctly.

Glad no one was hurt except for the CCW's ego and embarassment.

[KansDem]

11. Maybe he was twirling it to pass the time?

You know, like in those Hollywood westerns.

Perhaps CostCo should install magazine racks in its restroom stalls to give customers something to do while they're waiting to finish their dumps...

[RamboLiberal]

12. Nah - I doubt he was twirling the gun

If he was he'd certainly be a Darwin nominee.

Quite a number of people have Accidental Discharges trying to catch falling guns. Some aren't so lucky and wound or kill themselves or someone else.

[uppityperson]

29. When you drop a gun or a sword or a knife, step back.

Don't try to catch it.

[slackmaster]

34. Good rule

I'm adding that to my list.

Especially with sharp kitchen knives.

[slackmaster]

33. Story does not pass the smell test

Any halfway decent handgun will not discharge when it's dropped from six feet.

[RamboLiberal]

36. Aw don't you know the gun just went off by accident

:sarcasm: Wish I had a $1 for every story I've ever read where that's what the gun owner claims. 99% are the dingbat had finger in trigger.

[slackmaster]

39. I don't generally believe in "Russian Roulette" stories or accidental shootings

Negligent discharges are caused by negligence.

I can think of an example from my stepfather's extended family - A step second cousin of mine shot himself dead at age 16. The "official" story that got circulated was that he had been clowning around, playing mock Russian Roulette with a gun thought to be unloaded. But many of us know that the kid had a history of serious psychological problems including severe depression, and was being treated and medicated for it.

25 years later people have FINALLY stopped denying that his death was a suicide.

[RamboLiberal]

37. Little more info on the story - Gun was a Sig-Sauer

The man’s pistol was a new Sig-Sauer .357 caliber semi-automatic that the man had been carrying in a shoulder holster. Reagan did not identify the man.

While pulling up his pants, the man’s shirt somehow caught on the gun’s handle and pulled the gun out of the holster, Reagan said.

Although the gun is designed not to fire unless the hammer is cocked, the pistol discharged when it hit the floor.

Deputy Mark Smoldt said man did nothing that would constitute a law violation and he suggested the man return the gun to the manufacturer to have it checked for an apparent malfunction, Reagan said.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=8218

Sig - very high quality pistol - doubt very much if it fired when it hit the floor even if the dumbass didn't decock it. The Sig has a decocking lever which should be used after loading a round in the chamber. What happens when you rack the slide to chamber a round is that the hammer is back in Single Action mode. Since the Sig doesn't have external safeties like the 1911 which can be carried "cocked and locked" with safety on, you have to press the decocking lever to lower the hammer safely. As I mentioned you should decock a Sig for safe carry. This makes the first shot double action which means a long trigger pull. I'm betting dummy had not decocked, gun starts falling out of holster, he trys to grab it and in single action not much pressure needed for BANG! Bet Sig sends dummy new gun to avoid any potential lawsuits and bad publicity.

BTW, if anyone saw Michael Douglas/Kiefer Sutherland/Eva Longoria Secret Service movie The Sentinel - do you know the blooper in the movie concerning the Sig?

[slackmaster]

40. Similar Sigs have passed the strict California drop test

It's extremely unlikely that the gun discharged from hitting the floor.