Evangelical Students Speak Out For Climate Change

[bobbolink]

Interesting short video:

http://www.creationcsp.org/eyci.html

[Az]

1. It would be nice if people listened to the scientists

without having to wait for a nod of approval from religious institutions. Oh well. At least they are on board finally.

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2. I'm very glad that these people are listening, and more so that they are acting.

And, they are doing so *because* they "listened to the scientists" (or Gore).

On this, my glass is half full.

YMMV. :shrug:

[Az]

3. Thats the position I am taking as well

Saving the planet seems like a good idea to me.

[Sapphire Blue]

4. K&R for the evangelical youth, committed to Creation Care & for their lobbying Congress!

and a :kick: ... for the shift coming, for the change in the wind.

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7. their lobbying Congress....

Can you imagine the power behind this, if they join in pushing Congress?! Things will start to move, and progress will be made.

Then, imagine, if you will, the same groups lobbying Congress on behalf of poverty issues! Where Dems have abdicated, they show signs of picking up the ball.

I never thought that my survival may depend upon Evangelicals! :hi:

[Sapphire Blue]

8. There is a new movement w/in the evangelical community, w/Creation Care & poverty being a focus.

Evangelical Dems are very much involved in this.... as well as evangelical repubs... something worth uniting on. The RW bigotry no longer has a hold on the evangelical movement.

Come gather 'round people... for The Times They Are A Changin' :D

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9. Dems will be dragged along, kicking and screaming...

:) :hi: :)

Right now, I no longer care where it comes from... it's waaay past ridiculous for these important issues to be pushed into the background!

[Sapphire Blue]

11. Al Gore has been more vocal than anyone about global warming/Creation Care.

Speaker-elect Pelosi was very vocal about poverty during the 109th Congress' budget debate, calling it a moral issue. As Speaker, I'm confident that she will bring about much needed change... w/the very willing assistance of the Congressional Dems; they won't need to be dragged anywhere.

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14. I hope you're right.

I"ve been so disappointed, then hurt, then feeling despair that I won't trust it 'til I see it.

My activism turned around and bit me in the ....

I hope you're right.

From your keyboard to God's monitor... :hi:

[Sapphire Blue]

15. I was right about the Dems taking back Congress when so many were naysayers...

... and I'm right about this.... you will see it... for The Times They Are A Changin' :hi:

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17. ~~Eeyore voice here...~~~

I...was...a....naysayer...

:rofl:

I've gone downhill, seeing poverty as no longer a sexy issue. It hurts like hell.

A friend was telling me tonight she doesn't want to see "Bobby" because it would hurt too much. I agree. We haven't had a real advocate in all these years. We poor folk have been left in a corner, and I hope you're right, but I don't see much indication of that changing with the "liberals". We just aren't the sexy "cause".

I see much more reason to hope from the Evangelicals, and that really infuriates me.

Well there it is.

I can be pilloried now.

:rofl:

[Sapphire Blue]

23. That black cloud will soon turn into a rainbow, Eeyore!

Have faith... our Democratic Congress will be sworn in soon & things will change for the better. I hear what you're saying about poverty not being sexy enough for some 'liberals', I felt much the same as you during the budget battles when it seemed as though almost no one cared... but the Principled Populists have risen, and the Principled Populists do care.

[Sapphire Blue]

16. And, of course, there's John Edwards, whose focus is poverty!

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19. Yes, although he's not focusing on the likes of me... only "the working poor"

I've written to him about that a number of times, but... no reply. :(

However, if I'm around for the next election, and things remain as they are now, Edwards will have my support. I finally must support and vote my own best interest.

I really hate being divided that way, but there it is.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

31. are we still going to have a class divide?

Between the working poor and the overeducated and unemployed former middle class?

I assume that you are saying that you are a member of the former middle class. And is that going to pit the working poor against the formerly middle class? I am wondering.

Our country gets more and more unstable as the manufacturing base, the educational base, and the middle class in this country disappear.

We need a new equivalent of the GI Bill and the New Deal labor protections, plus some things like universal health care.

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32. Some people are no longer able to work.

Should they be tossed out with the garbage?

[Indiana_Dem]

5. awesome step in the right direction!

This I'd like to see more of.

I just finished the book Ishmael by Daniel Quinn, and this group is using the activism the book talked about using in order to save the world.

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22. Can you please say more about the book?

I'd like to hear more about it.

You might get a few more peeps to read it... :hi:

Please, do tell....

[Indiana_Dem]

38. I will get back to you about the book...

I had to take my grandfather to the ER tonight and I just got back (4am approximately). I will book mark and get back to this. I have to go to work in 4 hours!!! :)

[bobbolink]

39. Thanks for the reply, and I'll look forward to it!

Best wishes for your grandfather, and ....well, just hope you survive work...

Sleep well :hi:

[Indiana_Dem]

41. I'm back.I'm not very good at book reports/ reviews but

I'll summarize the best I can!

The setting of the story really doesn't state a time, although you assume it's set in today's world in America or some other Anglo country like the UK or Australia.

This sounds really wild but the main characters of the story consist of a regular guy who answers an ad in the paper that states: "Teacher wanting pupil. Must have an earnest desire to save the world."

The man goes to this stark office building within the large city and goes to the location. In the room he enters, he encounters a talking gorilla. Now picture him in an almost empty room with a glassed in are where the gorilla sits. He proceeds to sit in a chair in a "shrink"-like fashion and has discussions with this talking gorilla. The gorilla tells the man of how he came to be as he is, talking and intelligent.

The author uses this scenario to introduce specific ideas and questions of how things came to be the way they are today, how man came to be the way he is, two different kinds of people the gorilla calls the "Takers" and the "Leavers", and then compares the bible stories of Adam & Eve and the Fall and about the Cain and Abel story.

The main theme the author tries to convey is that we humans were originally an equal partner with the world when we were in the hunting and gathering/sheparding way of living. We eventually decided to become "like the god(s)" when we chose agriculture--Cain representing an agriculturalist and Abel representing a hunter-gatherer. The author says basically that our culture believes that in order to survive we must kill everything else and control it--to decide who and what must live and must die. The hunter-gatherer "Leaver" culture was in harmony with the earth.

There is so much more in the book that it is difficult to discuss here. You must read it. It reads a little slow in the beginning but halfway through the book you are riveted to the ideas presented.

Another supporting idea to the main theme presents that man believes the world was made for him....that he is above the jellyfish. And when man decided to choose agriculture and to stay in one place, this killed the process of natural selection and evolution. Man believes there is and never will be anything greater or more important than himself. Thus, by agriculture and staying in one place, we have increased our population to an unsustainable situation where things on earth must die in order to support our population. Eventually, we will kill the earth, everything on the earth, and ourselves in the process.

The book leaves one with the desire to try and change this course of self-destruction of which God or gods did not intend. Since the publishing of this book, there have been many small groups formed all over the world that are trying to spread the ideas of this author, Daniel Quinn, so that we can collectively try and change this course of the Takers.

Here, I found a Wikipedia explanation of the book that is probably better than my interpretation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_(novel)
Here's an ishmael website:
http:/http://www.friendsofishmael.org//www.friendsofishmael.org/

Hope that explains it a little!

[nosmokes]

6. i think it's great they're finally on board, but pathetic that they feel the need

for their own vocabulary and code words and bullshit to separate *them* from us, as we're the great unwashed or something. creation care. makes me giggle.

[Sapphire Blue]

10. Does it matter that they are taking a different path to the same place? I don't think so...

I think what matters is that they are living their convictions... walking the walk... for the good of all.

[Az]

12. The scary thing about this

at least for us in the science/skeptic community is we can never be sure what motivates the faith based crowd. I mean there are those out there that don't care about the failing ecosystems because they think the end is near. So yeah... good to have them here. The more the merrier. But it would be worlds more reassuring if their descision making process was something we could relate to a bit more readily.

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21. Before spending much more energy being concerned, I would

encourage you to watch Moyers' "Is God Green" program.

Yes, we learned to distrust that "crowd". But, that doeesn't mean there isn't some real decency there, and it's starting to bust out.

"But it would be worlds more reassuring if their descision making process was something we could relate to a bit more readily."

Palestinians and Jews.

Need I say more...?

[Az]

24. Its not keeping me awake at night

The cool thing about science is that it can really pile up over time. So eventually the impact gets even to those who do not turn to science on the first, second, or third pass.

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25. Glad you're sleeping well. ^_^ I still recommend "Is God Green"

Moyers, as always, did a fine job with it.

[Az]

27. Linkie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlvGlZ1rGcg

[Sapphire Blue]

28. If you'd like to watch the entire show, see post #26.

[bobbolink]

29. Thanks for finding that!

Just a short clip, but at least it gives a hint.

The last part, about the mountain mining, was heartbreaking. Those people are fighting valiantly to save that land.

I hope many will watch this... we can have some allies in this tough struggle.

Thanks again!

[Sapphire Blue]

26. 'Is God Green' video link:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/media_players/chapter2-1.html


And this thread w/some good info...

Moyers on America: Is God Green? / End Mountaintop Removal Mining: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2371657#2378767

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30. You're so good! Thanks for retrieving this!

I'm very fortunate... a kind DUer sent me the tape of the program.

But for those who don't have it and can watch it on computer, this is great.

Let's all spread this one around, as there is great and hopeful info here.

Thanks again, Sapphire Blue!

:hug:

[Sapphire Blue]

33. If you ever need to find it, it's in my journal.

:hug:

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34. ~~Eeyore again~~ (I do a very good Eeyore impression..hehehe)

Ohhh kaaaay..... I'll.... learn... how.. to use.... the ...jour..nals....

~~walks off, head down~~ :)

Thanks! I may very well need to find it again. :pals:

[Az]

35. I do a good tigger

Oooh... sorry bout that eyeore.... sometimes my bounce gets a little bouncier than normal... its ok... we can put the tail back in.... ooooh thats really unfortunate....

[bobbolink]

37. Unfortunate, indeed.

:rofl:

Ohhh welllll.... it.. was.. only... a tail....

If.. you... really... must ... bounce.....

I... thought.. I was...safe... from ... the bounces... this late... at...night...

:rofl:

[Sapphire Blue]

36. Click on the 'Journals' icon up on top & enter the username of the DUer's whose journal you want.

The icon:

The link: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/

No more excuses now, Eeyore! :pals:

[bobbolink]

13. You're so right.... We need to start leaving the "Us and Them" behind.

As angry as we've been at some of them, and rightfully so, they are still citizens, as we are, and we must find that common ground if we are to save the planet, and keep poor folk from dying.

They've made mistakes, but so have we.




Please, don't remind me tomorrow that I said such concilliatory words.

Cuz I may :puke:

:hi:

[nosmokes]

18. oh, i agree completely.

and if they're going to work to help save the environment i'll welcome them into fold w/ open arms and help them out and share my knowledge and and do whatever i can, the more the merrier, absolutely. heck, i'll even join 'em in their prayer circles or singing songs or whatever as long as i don't hafta do anything creepy like promise to have god's baby or sumpin... but like i say, their insistance on being separate and having their on little code and vocabulary gives me pause. as does the fact it's rising up simultaneously all over. i just hafta wonder if this isn't a greeen washing of the christian right, sorta like wal-mart selling so-called organic produce, ya know? but i'll definitely give 'em the benefit of the doubt until i have reason to do otherwise.

[bobbolink]

20. Have you seen Moyers "Is God Green"? I encourage you to do so.

You might feel a whole lot better about this whole movement in seeing that fine program.

As for "their own little code and vocabulary"... I'm a child of the 60's, and I can tell you, WE definitely had our own code and vocabulary, as did we Uppity Women in the second wave of the feminist movement.

It's really not necesarily a bad thing.

Let's put it this way.... I think there are a whole lot of things much more deserving of your worry.

:hi:

"It's not easy being green....." :)

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40. kicking for the day crowd....

:kick: