Life With the Liars

[H2O Man]

The strategy of the Libby defense team has been taking shape this fall. A central strategy involved having a "memory expert" attempt to convince the jury that not only could a busy bee like our Scooter simply forget conversations with VP Cheney about Valerie Wilson’s CIA employment, but he might remember a conversation with Tim Russert that never took place. Sad for Scooter, Judge Walton tossed that concept out of the trial.

Next, Team Libby has listed VP Dick Cheney on the list of witnesses it plans to call in the trial, which starts in January. Those who follow the pre-trial hearings and court filings suspect that Cheney will be used in part to counter one or more of the prosecution witnesses who are or were employed by the White House in 2003. Let’s take a moment to look closer at one of the court filings that is of interest.

On November 13, Team Libby filed a 12-page document, # 179-1. It is the "Libby Response to the Government’s Motion In Limine to Preclude Evidence, Comment, and Argument Regarding the Government’s Charging Decision." In the Government’s Motion, Mr. Fitzgerald noted that the defense should not be allowed to urge the jury to acquit Libby because he is the only one charged thus far, or because he isn’t charged with leaking Plame’s identity. Team Libby notes that these factors alone are not in dispute, but raises three related issues.

The first is that they want to clarify for the jury that Libby has not been charged with leaking classified information. The second concerns information concerning possible conflicts involving other witnesses who faced possible indictment. And third, they want to draw a distinction between Libby and Bob Novak’s sources. In a future essay, we will examine their cause for concern with issue #1. We need not bother expanding upon #3, which Mr. Fitzgerald has called a "strawman," considering the criminal investigation was not restricted to Novak’s sources.

In Section II (pages 4-8), Team Libby notes: "The jury is entitled to know what the case is and is not about. …. The Court may very well provide the jurors with a similar instruction. But on this crucial point, Mr. Libby is entitled to both the Court’s dispassionate admonition and his counsel’s emphatic advocacy. ….

" The government concedes that evidence concerning its charging decisions is relevant in certain circumstances. Specifically, the government admits that ‘information relating to its discussions with prospective witnesses, for example, is relevant on the issue of the witnesses’ motivantion(s).’ … The government is absolutely correct. But the relevance of that information is not limited to situations involving an immunity agreement. In situations where a witness faced potential criminal liability, the government’s decision not to charge that witness may be just as relevant as the government’s discussion with that witness. In the same manner, the fact that a witness has not been charged, but has reason to fear he or she could be charged, is also relevant. The defense should be permitted to cross-examine witnesses at trial about whether, for example, they testified in the grand jury or gave other information to the government in a manner calculated to curry favor with prosecutors and avoid prosecution. In such circumstances, it is undoubtedly pertinent that the witness in question was never charged by the government. …

"Further, even though the defense has not yet received any Jencks material, we are aware that certain potential witnesses have admitted they gave inaccurate information to the grand jury. We are also aware, based on information provided by the government in discovery, that potential witnesses gave testimony that directly conflicts with the testimony of other potential witnesses. The fact that these witnesses have not been charged, but have reason to fear charges, is undoubtedly admissible evidence because it bears on their motives to please the prosecution, which in turn reflects possible bias."

Who exactly does Team Libby have in mind? Catherine Martin? Ari Fleischer? Dick Armitage? Judith Miller? John Hannah? David Wurmser? Or possible Karl Rove?

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. So everyone else committed perjury too

That seems to be what Team Libby is inferring?

I bet Scooter's old friends are going to be thrilled he's trying to drag them down with him.

For someone who's supposed to be such a brilliant lawyer, he sure seems pretty stupid based on what we've seen so far.

[H2O Man]

3. I think they

are concerned with three potential witnesses' testimony. They are not people who Libby intends a future relationship with.

I think that Team Libby is faced with a pretty stiff task, which may be why they seem to be making such curious choices.

[TomInTib]

2. Only the Aspen know.

My money is on Rove, being that he was pretty much the last one under the 'scope.

Now that he has no real value, he would be easy to throw under the bus.

[H2O Man]

4. The fight between

the Office of the President and the Office of the Vice President may become evident as the trial gets underway.

[waiting for hope]

5. Desperation

makes people do stupid things.....I hope it is Rove that is thrown under the bus. It is apparent that they have little in the way of a defense now that the "memory expert" has been debunked.

[H2O Man]

6. It will be interesting

to see who calls Rove to testify.

[waiting for hope]

7. Wouldn't that be a scream -

will it be Fitzgerald or Libby's defense team? Or they going to fight over it? Meow! My money is on Fitzgerald.

[H2O Man]

10. Earlier Mr. Fitzgerald

had said he did not anticipate calling him. The defense had hinted they were going to call Rove. Of course, circumstances change.

[Annces]

8. I say Fleischer and Miller are the ones

That is my guess only.

[H2O Man]

9. Fireworks

when Fleischer testifies. I sure hope the tv cameras are let in.

[Lasher]

25. If the cameras are on I want to watch Fitzgerald cross-examine Lord Vader

Wouldn't it be fun if he decides to discredit the defense's witness as a chronic liar, and furnish examples of his behavior that support the charge? One or two quickly come to mind.

Edit for typo.

[H2O Man]

27. Being on the witness stand

requires a higher degree of self-discipline for those who normally enjoy debating. It is structured so that even an average attorney can make you look stupid. Cheney is trained to deal in board rooms, in giving speeches to republican audiences, and to do interviews with the media where he has the upper hand. This will be a very different experience for him.

[Lasher]

30. I wonder if Cheney will resist appearing.

He has already said he would ignore subpoenas but I guess he'll go along with this one willingly. Even if he doesn't care about Scooter's fate he would surely want to thwart the evildoers of the prosecution.

But I don't see Fitzgerald making Cheney dance on the stand, much as I would like it. To his credit he seems adverse to grandstanding for notoriety, in contrast with someone like Ken Starr.

You make a good point about his experience. I think Junior did so badly in the first 2004 presidential debate partly because he had grown so accustomed to audiences of hand picked zombies.

Peace to you and yours during the Christmas season, H20 Man.

[babylonsister]

11. Do you know when this trial might officially start, H20 Man?

Gosh, 2007 is going to be so interesting in so many ways.

[H2O Man]

13. Yes. Look for it

to start on or about January 16.

In a December 14 filing, Mr. Fitzgerald wrote: "The government has no objection to the Court's proposal that two reporters be present in the courtroom during the voir dire process, and that other members of the media be permitted to watch via closed circuit in the media room. ..." At this point, I anticipate we may see most of the actual trial. Judge Walton is attempting to make it as open as possible.

[bleever]

12. Perhaps I underestimate the strength of Team Libby's argument here,

but it seems that it boils down to: "Other people have lied. Other people are now under pressure to tell the truth. How can you know if Scooter lied without knowing what other lies people have told, and what pressures they have been, or will be, under?"

More three card monte from the office of Ted Wells, it appears to me.

First rec.

[H2O Man]

14. I do not think

you underestimate that part of it. The truth is that any time you have a group of people telling a story from their individual perspectives, there are going to be errors and contradictions. Unless Team Libby can pinpoint some purposeful lies -- as Mr. Fitzgerald has in charging Scooter -- then their efforts will only damage the White House. But we can live with that!

[bleever]

15. Things are not good

for the White House and the OVP, when Scooter's defense depends on claiming that heck, lots of folks were in a position to need to lie.

The tension between Scooter's defense, and the self-preservation of other actors, may soon be much more public than it has so far. I say, bring it on. :)

[H2O Man]

16. You have hit the nail

on the head: it supports the concept of a larger conspiracy, exactly what the Wilsons claim in their civil suit.

[DemReadingDU]

26. Why would Cheney testify

If he tells the truth, he is done.
If he lies, he is done.

Cheney has heart problems. He could possibly have a heart attack very soon to prevent having to testify.

[H2O Man]

29. Why would Cheney testify?

That is a great question. I do not think that Team Libby would have called him if their "memory expert" hadn't been rejected. Is it just loyalty for his good friend? It could be. Or it might be to insure Scooter doesn't make a deal.

One thing that I think is interesting to consider is how the president appears unstable when he speaks in public, off script. I am aware that Mr. Fitzgerald has a great deal of respect for the offices of president and vice president -- far more respect than Bush and Cheney have shown -- and so I do not expect him to be disrespectful. But I do think that the more off-script the discussion becomes (and Cheney has no attorney there to save him), the more obvious it will be that Dick Cheney is an out-of-touch, amoral mad man.

[librechik]

31. Vice President Queeg reporting for testimony , sir!

heh--can't wait to hear about the psychotic rationalizations he will use to justify his crimes!

:popcorn:

[H2O Man]

32. "Just the facts, Ma'am"

VP Cheney will not have the opportunity to rationalize. That will be the beauty of Mr. Fitzgerald's questioning, and Judge Walton's keeping the testimony focused. And that will be very frustrating for Dick.

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. So much for the idea

of Scooter falling on his sword for BushCo.

Looks like he doesn't mind dragging a few others down with him. I can't figure out why he thinks any of this is going to help his case? But then again, most of the people from the Bush misadministration seem to have a hard time groking reality.

[bleever]

22. Your sig line speaks to the citizenship of these people.

Blow up the old order, because of its myriad faults, and position yourself to make the new order.

They applied the same thinking to taking control of the U.S. government, but the order established by the Constitution (and its defense over the last 200+ years) was too strong to simply be blown up. They were able to change the dynamics of the flow of power between the two parties in a profound way, but only for a limited period of time.

Now that their own idea of a new order within the U.S. government has faltered, each person falls back on his own ideals. And they are not the ideals of the Constitution, but of profiting from disorder.

So it's every man for himself, and the chess is pretty complicated. The aspens are connected at their roots, yet some can become firewood while others continue to stand and live and display their glory.

[brer cat]

17. Off to the greatest page with this one!

I look forward to your analysis of issue #1:

"The first is that they want to clarify for the jury that Libby has not been charged with leaking classified information."

This is troubling to me because it seems irrefutable that Libby did in fact leak classified information. :shrug:

[Straight Shooter]

19. How many times did Rove go back to the GJ to "please" Fitzgerald?

"The fact that these witnesses have not been charged, but have reason to fear charges, is undoubtedly admissible evidence because it bears on their motives to please the prosecution, which in turn reflects possible bias."

And the equally damning preceding paragraph:
"The defense should be permitted to cross-examine witnesses at trial about whether, for example, they testified in the grand jury or gave other information to the government in a manner calculated to curry favor with prosecutors and avoid prosecution. In such circumstances, it is undoubtedly pertinent that the witness in question was never charged by the government. …"

No one needs to be reminded of the anticipation of Rove being charged, considering that all the apparent evidence pointed at him. I was flabbergasted to see him evade justice. Perhaps this time Fitzgerald will carefully place Rove on the petard of his own making and finally detonate that device.

I hope so.

============

Great thread title, H20 Man. :D

[H2O Man]

28. Students of Watergate

recall that there came a point where people in the White House turned against one another, in an effort to protect themselves. Team Libby is expressing concern that Mr. Fitzgerald will mention that Scooter's actions have blocked the completion of his investigation -- the "sand in the eyes" bit -- but yet they want to discuss the possibility of other folks being charged. Can't have it both ways, Scooter.

In January and February, Americans are going to have a lot of information coming their way. A big part will be journalists covering the trial: many have personal experiences they may finally speak openly about. There will be information from outside the courtroom, as "experts" connect the WHIG's efforts to sell the war with the attack on Wilson and Plame. And the main event will be the trial itself. Those who have questioned "what Fitzgerald has been doing" are in for a pleasant surprise.

[young_at_heart]

20. I feel sorry for the Wilsons----having to endure these dirty tricks

Joe Wilson tried to get the administration to pay attention to his report and after being ignored on all levels he was finally forced to go public. Yet, all their dirty tricks go unpunished for years and the country continues to suffer.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

21. There's an old sixtie's song based on a children's rhyme:

Liar, Liar, pants on fire
Your nose is longer than a telephone wire...

Can't remember who sang it though.

[pacalo]

23. It was The Castaways...

And the video is available at YouTube here.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. The Carnival of the Snitches....

attempting to save their own hides. The legal mind reels and the legal mouth slobbers at the deliciousness of it all!!!

As John Dean suggested recently, perhaps the Congress (same issue, corruption) will investigate the bottom level bureaucrats who will snitch on the higher ups and turn indictments into a domino theory, starting from below.

[Me.]

33. I've Wondered If With The Cheney Business

If they're trying to do another form of greymail

[H2O Man]

37. I think it is likely

that VP Cheney would not be participating in the trial if Judge Walton had not rejected the "memory expert."

[Me.]

34. Here4's The Thing About That Worm Wurmser

He and Meryav have been strongly pushing, of late, for9r war with Syria. He must be feeling confident about something.

[bleever]

35. Wurmser and Addington prepped Gates for his hearings, not

the Pentagon, according to Raw Story. Hmmm...

[H2O Man]

36. TIME had mentioned

meetings with Gates, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush prior to the November election. Rumsfeld wasn't "fired." He handed off the ball to Gates.

[Me.]

38. Hmmmmmm Is Right

It just gets deeper and deeper. They're like energizer bunnies and just keep going and going. The only way we will truly get away from the influence of these people is if we lock them all away.