The I word and how it starts

[nadinbrzezinski]

Well first a link to the story

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2965347&mesg_id=2965347

For those of you who want to skip it... it boils down to key committees are hiring lawyers

So you may ask... what does this have to do with Impeachment? And I am not talking the farce we saw the Pubbies pull in 1998, I mean the real deal.

So seat down and pay attention class.

Here is a brief chronology of events

http://watergate.info/chronology/brief.shtml

Out of the page

May 18, 1973: The Senate Watergate committee begins its nationally televised hearings. Attorney General-designate Elliot Richardson taps former solicitor general Archibald Cox as the Justice Department's special prosecutor for Watergate.

Now this is the critical point folks... back when things started in '72 the Democratic Majority Leader used the same words Nancy Pelosi used. "Impeachment is off the table."

Yet, actions speak louder than mere words.

Just like the Congress of '72 they're hiring lawyers to work for the Committees... one of those lawyers back in '72 was a young lady by the name of Hillary Rotham, she might ring a bell. The next stage you need to watch for, ONCE the hearings start... are special orders, (sessions after the regular work for the day is done)...that is, if the pattern follows where the I word will be spoken for the first time in the House. (And yes I know about McKinney's resolution before the 109th congress, but that one was an empty act)

So get yer popcorn... the ride is just beginning

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. kick

[bobbolink]

2. "in '72 the Democratic Majority Leader used the same words Nancy Pelosi used. "Impeachment is off

the table."

I don't remember this--could you expound on that, please?

I'm not at all happy with Pelosi for this, so I would find this of interest.

Thanks for this thread! :thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. The leadership back then also said

the same words

It is a political maneuver. Unlike the Pubbies who said in '96 we are going to impeach Clinton and shut the government for two years, these guys realize that you need to get things done, and in effect they are on a very tight clock (don't be too shocked if the I does not get too far this session, they literally have a year to get the agenda moving before the election season starts all over)

Anyhow, you say it's off the table, but you still start the investigations. If you find that there are ground for impeachment, that MEET A LEGAL STANDARD... then you move ahead. If you cannot prove it legally, nobody has lost anything

For the record, I believe we are about to get shocked at how much crap that is impeachable has been committed, but still be patient. What we know and what meets a legal standard for indictment are two different animals.

But what you are seeing... actions speak louder than words, is a fine game of chess.

[longship]

4. Bing bing bing bing bing bing!!!

That's Al Franken's "Wait, wait! Don't Lie to Me!" winning answer bell.

Nadin, as usual, you've got it nailed.
Kudos to you.

We need to keep blowing the impeachment trumpet. But we can't do that unless we are also lobbying Congress for some serious investigations.

Impeachment? It'll happen. It's inevitable. But Congress needs to find that they have a reason for it and the people need to find out the truth. Both will inevitably come from investigations in Congress.

You go, girl.

[bobbolink]

6. I found that the majority leader was Mansfield in 72, but I haven't found

those words that he said impeachment was off the table.

Could you please direct me to it? Thanks.

My unhappiness with Pelosi is the way she said what she said. Yes, I know... politics is dirty, etc. But there are many ways to say what she intended to do without a PLEDGE! that impeachment would not be sought.

All that does is to increase the distrust of so many citizens that words spoken by a politician are just that... a political game of words.

Color me old-fashioned-- I still believe that a politician can leave options open and still be honest and truthful. I believe politicians can be politically wise and still not play word games.

And, please... I'm so tired of these DU arguments about "investigations". OF COURSE THERE WILL BE INVESTIGATIONS. That has nothing to do with the words she chose. I lost respect for her when I saw her on TV, playing that game.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. I read that online right after she said it

and I do know from history classes that they hired the lawyers and quietly started investigating...

Let me see if I find it anywhere

As to distrust, yep we should... but then again we should remember, THEY WORK FOR US...

Now here is more, going over the time line... who investigated? THE SENATE Special Committee on Presidential activities....

NOT THE HOUSE.

Expect Leahy to serve a similar function and he intends to run two to three hearings a day... a murderous pace by the way.

[bobbolink]

9. Unfortunately, I watched Pelosi not once, but twice.

I actually felt sick to my stomach.

For how many years have I yearned to see a woman in a position of power like that, and I felt like I got a blow to the solar plexus. :(

AT a time when I so much wanted to feel encouraged and celebratory.

:(

"but then again we should remember, THEY WORK FOR US... "

I'm going to be very honest with you... as a person in poverty, I no longer feel that sense of them "working for me". I feel completely forgotten and ignored.

I'm willing to wager that's why a lot of people don't bother to vote. That's something we need to take very seriously, and do something to correct!

Thanks for looking up the other stuff.... it's interesting to me, and given that I was so involved at the time, watching the hearings, I'd like to know some of those details leading up.

Thanks. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Oh you welcome

as to they work for us... we ain't reach either, but a couple times I have gotten a RESPONSIVE politico to bend to my will as it were...

There are times, in fact most of the time, that they forget who they work for....

But in order to change that we need systemic changes in how elections are funded.

Oh and the feelings of why bother? They are pervasive... but as I was talking to a kid this week, we helped raised and hopefully put in some good seeds... he has no clue who his reps are. He was surprised I bother caring and feeding my congress critters on a regular basis. But as I told him the squeaky wheel gets the grease... and in their case part of it is money. Why I want to get the money out of it.

But her statement, it was... if I am reading this correctly, a politically calculated statement, one that pissed me off too... and led me to sending her a long rebuke with a copy of the Constitution... and if enough people do that... it will remind them who they work for.

[Rageneau]

5. If we don't impeach, it's beause we care more about the country that Pugs do.

We ought to impeach, just like we ought to prosecute armed robbery. But if we DON'T impeach, we should make it clear that's only because -- unlike Republicans -- we care more about the well-being of America than we do political gamesmanship.

[bobbolink]

7. Backwards. Impeachment is BECAUSE we respect the Constitution

and love the nation.

It is the Constitutional DUTY to impeach criminals.

[Rosemary2205]

10. In my very humble opinion

if it gets to impeachment it will be ONLY because there is such a compelling legal case for it that nothing less than impeachment will save our republic. The D's will NOT use impeachment as a MERE political tool no matter how much the liberal base screams for payback.

IMHO the open wound in our country is bleeding so badly that the D's must and should force cooler heads to prevail. We need sober adults for awhile.

[bobbolink]

13. I"ve seen this here so much that I must now tell you that telling me

I'm wanting "payback" is insulting.

Enough of this already.

It's time to STOP drawing battle lines where there are none.

I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!! And I resent like hell being put in the position by a "DEM" to have to say that about myself!

Calling all of us liberals "screaming for payback", and we're not "cooler heads", and not "sober adults" is just exactly what the RW has said to us all these years. Why in the hell do you want to play that ugly game?

BASTA

[Rosemary2205]

21. Um

wow.

Just wow.

Um. I meant cooler heads, drunken adults, than the R's impeaching Clinton for a blowjob. Sorry I worded that so you thought I meant the D's were drunken????????

And I stand by my statement that IMHO impeachment is a legal tool not a mere political tool. If that makes me a double secret repug troll then hey, what can I say????

sorry I stomped on your toes. Honest.

[bobbolink]

26. Actually, yes, you did.

Given that there are many at DU who chose to bash fellow Dems, it becomes a bit tiresome.

If that wasn't addressed to fellow Dems, then I'm glad to hear that.

It's unbelieveable what is said here sometimes.

As for your statement about "double secret repug troll"... I'm not into calling names. That's exactly what I finally spoke up about.

I strongly believe that we MUST honor the Constitution first, rather than be so bound up by political expediency that we forget, again, what our duty is. I lived through the whole Iran/Contra mess, and now I see just what shit we're living in because we chose to be politically expedient.

We can no longer afford that. Our country can't survive another bout of this.

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Why do you think the investigations are going to run?

they are not investigating just for fun, they will not do oversight just for fun.

Impeachment comes AFTER investigation and once you have the political capital to spend, and clearly you have it.

But to say that people want revenge is actually insulting

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. If there is a compelling case to impeach

and we don't, well hate to tell you this but we love the country as much as the pugs do... which is not much... something about rubicons and death of republics

[bobbolink]

14. I no longer "hate to" tell them... it's damned insulting, and it was

bad enough getting it from the RW. I'll be damned if I will now cow-tow to those who create this kind of dissention, then treat us the same as they screamed about being treated by the RW.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Well some people are truly afraid that the country

will not survive yet ANOTHER impeachment... and they may have a point, but then again I no longer expect the country to surrvive if the right thing is not done.

Am I negative? Perhaps... but those who refuse to learn from history and we SHOULD have impeached the original band of thiefs in 1990 over Iran Contra, PERIOD

[bobbolink]

17. We MUST stop being led around by fear!

Our Founders would be incensed by how spineless and fearful we are, and what that is leading us to lose!!

Negative? I hardly think so! We need readings of our Founders, to remind us that righteous anger and determination to be a free nation, free of fear and compliance and domination of the almighty dollar, will give us the strength to reclaim our heritage that so many fought and died for.

:patriot: :cry: :patriot:

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Well we do have a mythical view of the founders

that war was a damn civil war... with about one third for the war, one third for the Mother country and the last third mostly leave me alone.

If this sounds familiar, it should.

The third that won was lucky, if they did not they would have hung from a near by tree.

The history channel at times hit a home run, the series they produced this year for Independence Day was amazing, if you can catch it, "The American Revolution," is worth watching... it also dispels some of the mythis... including the fact that they were united... in the middle of the war Adams was playing games with the supply of the Continental Army, for example... and playing people against people

[bobbolink]

19. I'm talking about those who worked so hard to create something

totally and completely new.

And, I'm speaking about moving away from the fear.

That's my focus.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Yeah but most will remain afraid

change is a damn scary thing...

[bobbolink]

24. We need a fear vaccine.

~~gigglesnort~~

[bobbolink]

20. Am I still the only one to recommend this thread?

This is a worthwhile conversation, friends.

It's just one little click... :hi:

[chknltl]

23. I have been reading your posts for a bit over a year now.

If I have ever had a single complaint from reading your posts it would have to be about your name. (How in the dickens does one pronounce that!!!)

This post above all others brings me a profound satisfaction. I have been posting these last two weeks on the reasons for impeachment and why I think it is a good idea to get it back on the table. A great many folks here, (some I deeply respect), disagree with this and debate quite well that impeachment at this time is not a good idea. I have stood my ground not only because I feel it is THE most important thing to do among so many other important issues which need urgent attention but because I sensed the inevitableness of it. Having you posting in agreement with my suspicions...well that made my day...hell why stop there, that makes my whole holiday season. If you are right, then the spark of Democracy in America has not gone out!
Jesse Jackson is fond of saying; "Keep Hope Alive" .... Thank you for doing just that. :patriot:

c

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Impeachment is a political act

but when it works (Watergate was the only time) it is also an organic act

Investigations have to happen, and WE the people need to give them the political capital to do it.

Remember, after the Saturday Night Massacre, they received over 200,000 telegrams in the course of either 24 or 48 hours.

Something similar will have to happen here.

The true political reality is... we will have the votes in the house to impeach (aka convict) where it is going to get tricky, is in the senate where you need a super majority (60 senators, this means we need all the Dems and the two independents to vote for it, and nine Rs to cross). I am not too convinced, RIGHT NOW that the Rs will cross the aisle, unless... the popular outrage is such that they have no choice.

The reason why Nixon resigned is... they had the votes... it was going to happen.

Remember impeachment is indictment
Conviction in the senate is a conviction...

And it is quite by design not an easy process.

Understanding the political reality makes it easier to see the writing on the wall. They are getting ready for phase one... Investigation.

I am not going to put all my eggs in the I bag YET... we have a hellish series of investigations to come. After all, all the White Papers of the Downing Street Memos were NOT presented before the US Congress, or Senate but Parlaiment

Oh and Happy Holidays, keep hope alive and pester your delegation

;-)

[bobbolink]

27. And how do we get all those telegrams (or the modern equivalent)

when there are so many Dems telling us to sit down and shut up?

I believe in knowing history, but I also know that history, while it repeats, doesn't usually repeat in the same way, and we have to be ready to go with the flow. So, I'm not sure what this time will ask of us, but certainly we can't sit, stay and shut up.

I believe ALL of what we need will happen because we raise a ruckus...Justice in the form of impeachment (or the Hague!), Universal Health Care, the erasing forever of homelessness and hunger, etc etc etc.

So, pester away! :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. I will draw on my intuition

1. The Media will do all it can to minimize\hide what is going on. They have for the last six years why stop now?

2.- Keep sending them emails

3.- Get ready to take to the streets.

Now here is where it gets scary... and why they want to get away with net neutrality....

4.- We need to be ready to take into a national strike... something that not even the NYT can ignore.


As is the petitions have had an effect already on the leadership... not regarding the I word... I suspect some in the party leadership don't want it... but regarding the surge of troops... Reid has gone from not even paying attention to now thinking about the surge.

And yes many around here do poopoo the DLC third way pap, but they are real, and that is what has co opted the party.

Oh and

5. We need a leader... dime on the dollar that one of our possible leaders will never see extensive press coverage (D. Kucinich), and I have not looked into Obama carefully, but I was actually taken aback when African Americans agreed with my gut feeling about rapid decelerating lead poisoning.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. morning kick

[madokie]

30. This is exactly how it will start too

don't have them convicted before you go to the jury, it won't work. Let the investigations work and let them take us to the 'I' word not embark on an 'I' word mission.

[chknltl]

31. Kicked nt