The Case for Flip-Flopping

[globalvillage]

THE CASE FOR FLIP-FLOPPING
When Resolve Turns Reckless

By John F. Kerry
Sunday, December 24, 2006; Page B01

There's something much worse than being accused of "flip-flopping": refusing to flip when it's obvious that your course of action is a flop.

I say this to President Bush as someone who learned the hard way how embracing the world's complexity can be twisted into a crude political shorthand. Barbed words can make for great politics. But with U.S. troops in Iraq in the middle of an escalating civil war, this is no time for politics. Refusing to change course for fear of the political fallout is not only dangerous -- it is immoral.

more at

http://tinyurl.com/y69vot

[rox63]

1. Hear hear, Senator Kerry

At least someone is telling it like it is. :)

[Rageneau]

47. I thought Kerry said he would still vote the same way on the war?

And by saying so, prevented the electorate from making a clear choice in 2004.

The upshot is that Bush is wrong all the time, and Kerry is only wrong at first, but eventually changes his mind to be right.

I prefer to support those brave politicians who were right all along -- even when it was politically unpopular to be so.

Kuchinich, Edwards, Obama, Kennedy -- people like that.

I'm all for Kerry, but not as president. He had, and blew, his chance.

[disndat]

48. Sen. Kerry said

he would have voted for the war given the misinformation from the WH at the time. But otherwise I agree, Kerry blew it in Ohio.

[babylonsister]

2. What a great article; Kerry lays it out the way we all need to hear it.

And that includes dimson. Thanks, gv!

[globalvillage]

5. I guess he and Sen Dodd are back home.

Hope we hear more from both of them. There have been very small bits of media coverage interspersed with the barrage of Rosie v The Donald and bush's annual visit with the troops he put in the hospital, but not near enough.

Good piece from Sen Kerry on what our priorities should be.

[rox63]

7. I'm glad they made it home safe and sound

I hope they have a lovely holiday with their families, then get back to the hard work on fixing *'s mess when the new Congress convenes in January.

[babylonsister]

8. I'm happy they got home for the holidays. And yes, priorities are

the key in this article vs. what we're actually witnessing. I could scream about the state of our country and world today, and what could have been.

[Higans]

39. Bush won't listen.

Either Bush has this problem:

Or maybe his Boy friend:

[Island Blue]

3. Thank you Senator Kerry.

:applause:

[Az]

4. The inability to flip or flop is

the inability to process new information. The GOP and their anti-flipflopping nonsense has always been and always will be a rejection of thinking.

[etherealtruth]

12. exactly

What did Stephen Colbert say about * believing on Wednesday the same thing he believed on Monday ...despite the events occurring on Tuesday (PP)?

[karynnj]

21. True - I seriously wonder how being stubborn ever became a virtue

I've often wondered if it's a flip flop to decide to stop at a red light, then to decide to go when it turns green. I'm a big flip flopper if it is.

[madokie]

6. Now I'm pissed, while reading this I realized that the powers to be

knew that the VN war was unwinnable the day they sent me there, what sorry bastards they were in playing with my life like that. The same thing is happening now in Iraq, damn

[MH1]

9. madokie, have you read "A Bright Shining Lie" by Neil Sheehan ?

I don't know when they sent you there, but from reading this book, I'd say the powers that be damn sure should have known the war was unwinnable by 1963 - 64. At least that was the timeframe when they made some huge mistakes that poisoned our presence there. (I'm a little vague on the exact dates, I'm not a good student of that time period, but that was my takeaway from the book). Another way that the path to disaster in Iraq has mirrored the path to disaster in Vietnam - the foundation for failure was laid in the very beginning by shortsighted, ideological decisions.

[karynnj]

13. Kerry spoke of that in his Dissent speech last April

and repeated it when Senator Allard said his call for a deadline was political. Especially in the Allard smack down, Senator Kerry was extremely visibly emotional when he spoke of this.

His own service on the swiftboats was after that and he was part of a ridiculous mission where as many as 90% of the people were wounded or died. He lost several close friends and, the RW to the contrary, was hurt himself. He obviously made exactly the same conclusion you did.

This is a stunningly good editorial.

[madokie]

16. June '69 thru October '70

I wasn't in country 3 days when I realized it was a failed mission but had no knowledge at the time of that actually being true. Not sure if it wasn't just me. When I see a Vietnamese on the street today I want to go up and hug them but don't for fear of being misunderstood. The Vietnamese people by coming here and being successful makes this ole Vet proud. Its speaks volumes for their resolve and forgiveness.

[Morgana LaFey]

29. What a beautiful soul you are

You've got me in tears.

Thank you for your service. I'm so very sorry -- for you and all my brothers (my generation) -- that it was required.

[The Wizard]

35. I have the same feelings

toward the Vietnamese. Everyday I was there I kept wondering what the hell I was doing there. The people could give a crap less about politics and economic theory. They wanted roofs over their heads and food on the tables.
Several years ago we had a president from Texas who took office under unusual circumstances. He then started a war predicated on lies.
Our President is a nut.

[TayTay]

25. Kerry's service in-country was during that time as well

He served after the period in which America's leaders knew the policy wouldn't work. He served with people who died after America's leaders knew the policy wouldn't work. He talked with the families of people killed in VN who all died after America knew it wouldn't work. I think that's why he gave that famous testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee back in April of 1971. Someone had to say, if it's not working, then why are we still there?

I am glad that he is saying this again today, because that question matters in this war. I am very glad that Sen. Kerry is addressing some of his comments to the families of those killed in Iraq. That is an audience that everyone in the Congress who talks about Iraq and what to do going forward, should be addressing.

In April Sen. Kerry put out an editorial in the NYTimes that said the time had come to begin a withdrawal of our forces from Iraq according to a timetable. He was attacked on the Senate floor by Sen. Wayne Allard of Colorado who said that Kerry was "an individual being spun in the political winds" and implied that Kerry was only doing this to garner favor with liberals and the antiwar crowd.

Kerry rebutted Allard by talking about the immorality of this war and the immorality of pursuing a course that wouldn't work. He said:

Do you want to run down the list of things that are egregious with respect to this war? I will tell you one thing that I know well, and I will remind the Senator from Colorado that half the names on the wall of that Vietnam Memorial--half the names on that wall --became names of the dead after our leaders knew our policy wouldn't work.

Our policy isn't working today, and I am not going to be a Senator who adds to the next wall , wherever it may be, that honors those who served in Iraq so that once again people can point to a bunch of names that are added after we knew something was wrong. We have a bigger responsibility than that.

Keep doing that Senator Kerry. It is the right and moral thing to do.

[brer cat]

32. Thank you for your service. We are very glad that you are here...

..and working for peace.

[The Wizard]

34. In McNamara's mia culpa

he said he knew it was a no win situation in 67, just about the same time I got on a ship in Oakland for a journey that forever changed my and millions of others' view of the world.
PS: What year(s)?

[Kurovski]

10. K&R.(nt)

[MH1]

11. The next paragraph really struck me

I'd rather explain a change of position any day than look a parent in the eye and tell them that their son or daughter had to die so that a broken policy could live.

Of course, * will never look those parents in the eye anyway.

[StoryTeller]

14. This needs to be repeated by all of us on a regular basis...

I think one of Kerry's greatest strengths is his ability to adjust his approach on an issue in response to the situation, while still remaining true to his moral convictions and principles. That's real leadership, and it's smart leadership.

But regardless how anyone feels about Kerry, or flip-flopping, or anything else the RW spin has cooked up, the point he's making about the folly of Bush's stubbornness NEEDS to be repeated continuously to any RW people we are acquainted with.

They still tend to admire Bush for what they see as his "steadfastness" and his "confidence." I've heard them make statements to the effect that "Even if he's wrong, we admire that he is willing to take a stand and not waver."

That may be okay if the stand a person is taking is a largely symbolic one, or something that only will affect that person. But when the stand is a disastrous foreign policy that is killing not only our own troops but also hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, this is immoral and unforgivable behavior.

Kerry is giving us, in his op-ed, helpful tools to fight this notion of the merits of staying resolved, and I hope we get lots of opportunities to use them.

And I'm glad to know he and Senator Dodd returned home from the Middle East safely. They were about the People's work the past couple weeks, and I'm proud of them both.

[karynnj]

15. You are so right that this editorial gives us the tools to change the minds

of those who see steadfastness as a virtue. The historical examples are great and he really makes the case to change the course.

[StoryTeller]

17. kick (nt)

[YvonneCa]

18. Bravo, Senator Kerry...

...NEVER GIVE UP. WE WON'T. This country is too important.:patriot:

[Blaukraut]

19. excellent op-ed by Kerry

He gets it right again, as usual. If only the Bush administration listened for once.

[karynnj]

20. kick

[fob]

22. Fantastic Senator Kerry. I would also like to remind bush* that

you, Senator Kerry, brought up a plan in 2004 to add 20,000 troops, bring scores of Iraqi army to here or elsewhere to train just like our guys do, AWAY from the pressure cooker that is Iraqbush*nam, and then bring them back fully trained. This was a quality idea THEN, it is suicide NOW. Welcome to John Kerry's plan from two years ago when it could have done some good, bush*ler.

[wisteria]

23. This is just wonderful. I had to e-mail it around to others. It is a must read! n/t

[ProSense]

24. Absolutely awesome! n/t

[Diane R]

26. And he knows that bush stole his Presidency from him. R&K

[CountessMZaleska]

46. does he??

so why didn't he do something about it? why did he surrender so fast?

and why did he vote to give Bush war powers?

and why is he not calling for cutting funds for this immoral war IMMEDIATELY?

I'm sorry, Kerry has always been, still is, part of the problem.

[blm]

49. Kerry has always been the SOLUTION to the BFEE. No one has done more to expose

the corruption of government. You should wish that more lawmakers had Kerry's record and THEN this country wouldn't even BE suffering from BushInc, at all.

Imagine if Clinton hadn't let Bush1 off the hook on all those outstanding matters that Kerry uncovered in IranContra, BCCI, and CIA drugrunning.

[beachmom]

27. K & R

[Tin Man]

28. Ouch, that'll leave a mark! Turnabout is fair play, Mr. Pretzledent...

:rofl:

[pinto]

30. Well said, Senator Kerry.

[politicasista]

31. K&R

:kick:

[mloutre]

33. you know, I think I'm starting to like this Kerry guy.

I might even have to vote for him next time he runs for something.

I mean, Goddess forbid we should have somebody in public office who actually has a brain and knows how to use it.

[karynnj]

43. Isn't it great that we Democrats

have such an eloquent articulate guy on our side.

[Island Blue]

36. This deserves a kick!

:kick:

[wisteria]

41. I love that picture. n/t

[mtnsnake]

37. We need much more of this kind of rhetoric

The entire article is worth reading.

[karynnj]

42. It really is an awesome article

He makes an amazing number of great points.

[nam78_two]

38. K&R.nt

[DarkTirade]

40. I would rather have someone who changed their mind when the facts changed

than one who 'stayed the course' when it was obviously the WRONG course.

[Pierzin]

44. I could cry, that this man were president!!!

Instead of the insane dumbass that many even in the right wing media, are now calling, "delusional".

[Beartracks]

51. It pisses me off, too....

I know a lot of registered Republicans who voted for Bush even though they thought he was an idiot -- because they simply could not bring themselves to ever consider voting for a Democrat.

[RestoreGore]

45. And Bush will still do what he wants...

regardless of how many articles are written. What then? The attack on Iran is coming. It is only a matter of time. Will Senator Kerry stand up this time and speak out against it? Or does the vote he gave for the IWR also hold for Iran? Will he then publicly call for Bush's impeachment?

[blm]

50. One reason some Dem senators supported IWR is because they negotiated Iran OFF

the table along with Syria.

Those Dems working on the negotiations WERE stuck voting for an imperfect bill BECAUSE they promised they would in exchange for getting Iran and Syria taken out of the IWR talk.

Not that many truly understand that that is how the senate works. For instance, if Gore were in the senate, and the suggestions HE HAD SPECIFIED were needed to gain his approval for the IWR were then added to the resolution, he would have had some obligation to then vote for it. Sad, but that is how REALLY bad bills become better than they would be without ANY negotiation at all.