UK Poll: Religion Does More Harm Than Good

[Mark E. Smith]

82% say faith causes tension in country where two-thirds are not religious

The Guardian - Saturday December 23, 2006

More people in Britain think religion causes harm than believe it does good,
according to a Guardian/ICM poll published today. It shows that an over-
whelming majority see religion as a cause of division and tension - greatly
outnumbering the smaller majority who also believe that it can be a force
for good.

The poll also reveals that non-believers outnumber believers in Britain by
almost two to one. It paints a picture of a sceptical nation with massive
doubts about the effect religion has on society: 82% of those questioned say
they see religion as a cause of division and tension between people. Only
16% disagree. The findings are at odds with attempts by some religious
leaders to define the country as one made up of many faith communities.

Most people have no personal faith, the poll shows, with only 33% of those
questioned describing themselves as "a religious person." A clear majority,
63%, say that they are not religious - including more than half of those who
describe themselves as Christians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1978045,00.html

[Diane R]

1. I should live in Britain. Recommended.

[VegasWolf]

2. There is hope for here too. The English used to be very religious a long time ago before

they woke up. Remember the Puritans fleeing England for America due to religious freedom issues. One day the Americans will wake up and stop worshiping their three-headed god. Given that Americans are 38th in the world in terms of Science proficiency, and 35th in the world in terms of Math proficiency, it is not surprising that so many Americans are backward.

[DavidDvorkin]

4. The Puritans didn't flee to America to find religious freedom

But to escape it and to create a society where they could impose their will on everyone.

[UndauntedD]

7. Don't forget second to last for "believing" in evolution.

[IndianaGreen]

3. If we moved to the UK, we would be free of Christian Right

and we can vote Liberal-Democrat, rejecting the Tories and Blairism.

[Neoma]

16. Ditto.

[sam sarrha]

5. the pruitans left england because the English werent religious Talibans enough for them

[Proletariatprincess]

6. No wonder the Brits are more interesting at dinner conversations

Remember the heat Gwen Paltrow got about the art of conversation at Dinner parties? Is it any wonder? I think it goes together with non superstitious thinking people.

[originalpckelly]

8. People may say they are Christians, but less than half attend church in America.

The fundies always discuss that 90% number of believers in a deity and the 80% of Christians in America, but they never talk about that Less than half who attend church.

[Zhade]

9. Sanity...sigh...

Crazy in lots of others ways I'm sure, but at least not fable-crazy...!

[Ishoutandscream2]

10. Great folks, the Brits!

A very enlightened country. And they gave us the Beatles and Stones to boot!

[PassingFair]

11. The non-religious have been SERIOUSLY undercounted for YEARS

My relatives in Scotland have told me for many
years that Scotland was 2/3 non-religious, but
statistics have always been conflicting.

These numbers sound more in line with what my
relatives in Scotland and England have told me,
but I am "non-religious" too.

[OKIsItJustMe]

12. Yeah, just look at all of the evil wrought by religion...

Let's see... off the top of my head, here are just a few nasty things done by religion:

The Red Cross, The Salvation Army, public education, hospitals, orphanages, universities ...

Who feeds the homeless? (Local governments?) Charity is pretty much synonymous with religion, and not secularism.

James 1:22-27 (NRSV)

22 But be doers of the word, and not merely hearers who deceive themselves. 23 For if any are hearers of the word and not doers, they are like those who look at themselves in a mirror; 24 for they look at themselves and, on going away, immediately forget what they were like. 25 But those who look into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and persevere, being not hearers who forget but doers who act, they will be blessed in their doing. 26 If any think they are religious, and do not bridle their tongues but deceive their hearts, their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Who wages peace, who puts it on the line protesting the war?

True religion teaches people that there is something greater than themselves in this world.

[LeftyMom]

14. Please google the following: "no true scotsman fallacy"

You can't simply reject all the bad things done in the name of religion as not being "true religion," as with all human behavior you have to take the good and the bad. So when tallying up all those hospitals and universities, do remember the dark ages, the crusades, witch burnings, the nazis, the role of emperor worship in the Japanese expansionism that led to World War II, the role of the Moonies in financing the Republicans, the theft of land and subjugation and enslavement of people in the new world, Northern Ireland, the role of the American religious right in financing Republicans, loss of culture and in many cases language to overzealous missionaries, the war against choice, sectarian conflict in the middle east, religiously motivated genocide in the former Yugoslavia...

It'd take a hell of a lot of hospitals and schools just to get religion to break even, as much harm as it's done humanity.

[OKIsItJustMe]

24. you have to take the good and the bad

... as with all human behavior you have to take the good and the bad ...

I agree whole-heartedly, much evil has been done in the name of religion. However, it appears many people are willfully ignorant of the good that religion does. (Are you taking the good? or just the bad?)

Typically it's not religion that motivates conflicts, religion is often simply an aspect of tribe. Take for instance the civil war in Ireland. Catholics -vs- Protestants, right? Or was it? The same was true in Yugoslavia. The conflict between Sunni and Shia in Iraq is similar. (There was no great religious conflict between Sunni and Shia in Iraq before the war.)


As for the good that religion does, for example, I was not talking about the founding of a hospital here or there, but the whole concept of hospitals. Who in the US is not familiar with the institutions of the YMCA & YWCA?

When there has been a movement for social justice, it's been religious individuals who have been at the forefront. Whether it was the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. or "Mahatma" Gandhi. The movement to abolish slavery or to advocate non-violence, religious leaders are always present.

Religion teaches that there is a higher truth and a higher justice. What other institutions in society do the same?

[melm00se]

13. religion is not the reason

for the violence and dissension but rather the excuse

[WindRavenX]

15. it's the excuse that allows monstrosities to be committed in the first place

After all, if bad things happen to your enemy, they deserve it-- they're heathens and not *really* human, after all...

[melm00se]

19. and if they weren't

(religious) heathens, they'd be a different color or talk different or were the wrong color(s) or or or...

[happyslug]

21. And don't forget that the enemy (or ally) can be Communists or Capitalists.

In many ways both Communism and Capitalism are "World Views" much like religion, people "believe" that if you embrace either you will see your standard of living "Improved" or "decline". In the period from 1900 till 1970 people were primary killed NOT for religion but what were their attitude to Communism and Capitalism. Hitler killed millions of Russians because their were Communist (as did the CIA in Latin America and elsewhere during the Cold War) while Stalin killed Millions of people who he viewed as enemy of "Communism". Nationalism was another scourge that killed Millions. Napoleon was one of the first to effectively used Nationalism (Through you had cases of such Nationalism during the Reformation and even during the rule of Louis XIV.

One of the nature of people is that we are moved by Great Causes. Be it religion, clan, tribe, economic liberalism, or nationalism, we are moved by great causes. The key is to make sure the cause is not used to do more harm than good. That is difficult, for people will stay with a movement for that done then good before even when it has turn or used for evil. People tend to forget that evil is NOT the opposite of Good, but the corruption of Good. It is when a good is taken to the extreme that it becomes evil. Religion (Like Nationalism, love of family, love of one's clan or Tribe, Liberalism, Communism and even Capitalism) can be used by anyone to do harm, and you have people who will use good things to do harm. This was observed by Jesus Christ when he said "Even the Devil can quote Scripture".

[melm00se]

28. bingo

religion and politics are, in many ways, the same coin.

they are both unprovable and highly emotional belief systems.

[Maestro]

17. More blood has been spilled for religious and territorial

reasons than I wish to ponder.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. As that God hating radical John Adams said...

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
John Adams

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson

[happyslug]

20. I would like to see the actual question and how that question was given.

One of the problem with ANY POLL, is that often the people asking the question making sure they get the results they want. For example in this poll, most people identify themselves as "Christian" but then called themselves "Not Religious" and most people see "religion was causing more harm than good". If people actually believe "Religion was causing more harm than good" then they would not call themselves "Christians". Something is wrong here, I suspect the poll. The authors look to me to want a certain result so they asked a question like "Do you think religion is causing more problem then goo", right now given the situation in Iraq and the Middle east most people will say yes t that question, while saying they themselves are "Christian".

As to the term "Religious", that has for at least 200 years been reserved to people who takes vows (i.e. enter the priest hood or other religious orders). Thus most people in the world would NOT call themselves "Religious" even while they hold what we would call strong Religious beliefs.

Polls have to be analysis carefully, most people will answer pollsters truthfully, but what is truth is often determined by the Question. I suspect that is happening in this case given the results I mentioned above.

[dave_p]

22. Britain: no secular paradise

I'm sure the pollsters did their job, but I'm not convinced. Note that the 63% who say that they are "not religious" include "more than half of those who describe themselves as Christian". Now if they're that non-religious, why don't they define themselves as atheist, agnostic or "none"?

And this is the problem with Britain, or more specifically England: religion isn't something you do anything about, it's just something you have. And I'm not sure that's healthier than a more active involvement. For one thing it's hard to make people think in secular or even mutifaith terms when they think religion's just something that doesn't matter. And its harder to defend multiculturalism when folk can't see the archaic baggage that burdens their imagined recipe for unity.

England isn't the place of enlightenment and tolerance that these results might suggest. Hankering still for its lost world status, it remains mired in its fetishisation of class, of conformity, of "knowing your place" in an order shaped by religious authority and by the abuse of religion. It's a place that's skilled at keeping its darker corners out of mind and out of view.

[Quantess]

23. My take on this:

You wrote: 'Note that the 63% who say that they are "not religious" include "more than half of those who describe themselves as Christian". Now if they're that non-religious, why don't they define themselves as atheist, agnostic or "none"?'

My guess, since I am not connected to the UK in any way, would be that there is a cultural expectation for the indigenous people to stick to the religion of yore. Even though Christianity is an imported religion. It's the family pressure.

[dave_p]

25. Yes

... indeed, that's part of it, but it's also strongly reinforced by the state - kids are generally divided up at school for religious observance according to family background, regardless of their own beliefs. It goes with knowing your place, sticking with your own - the Things that Made Britain Great... as a satellite.

[Quantess]

26. So, religion is a divide? Albeit, a self-imposed divide upon the people of Britain?

But yet, there are so many non-religious people in Great Britain.
In the US, I would bet the number of non-religious mirrors that of your homeland, more or less. Although, here in the US, I would bet there are more people who are denying their lack of faith. As if, not having telepathy with Jesus is proof of a failed life or something.

Cultural differences are so interesting.
We definitely have enough stupidity in our own U.S. culture to make the world stop spinning, but, knowing human nature, I'm not surprised to read that other "similar", western, societies such as the U.K., have their own ways of dividing people into categories. I guess, that's just what humans do.

[L A Woman]

27. Couldn't disagree more....

It's misuse of religion that causes more harm than good. The core every religion is exactly the same and it can be summed up by "love thy neighbor as thyself." If you have another agenda, such as greed, and you use religion to excuse it - it doesn't make the religion bad, it makes YOU bad.

Do you really think the world would be a better place if everyone were an atheist? Of course it wouldn't. Mankind would simply divide itself into different belief systems based on politics, geography or race and fight over those things.