Can someone explain to me why the taxes on a $100 million

[rzemanfl]

Christmas bonus shouldn't be 90%? Lots of Wall Street types are rolling in that kind of dough this year while others have no health insurance, are hungry or are dying in Iraq. Just getting FICA and Medicare on that sort of swag would do wonders for the rest of us peasants.

[ixion]

1. I think there should be a cap on bonuses. I think they should be taxed like any other

income, though.

[oblivious]

2. Because then people find loopholes to avoid paying anything.

I remember in the early 80s trying to do business in Sweden. My prospective distributor told me he was in the 80% tax rate so he just had his suppliers add 10% to their prices and deposit it into his Swiss bank account. So the government got nothing. Pretty slimy, but you have to face reality. Something is better than nothing.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Not just slimy but felonious.

Of course people can cheat, and find loopholes. Oh well. Regardless of that, the rates for truly ridiculous compensation ought to be much higher. We survived just fine with the top rate being between 70-90% for decades.

[sweetheart]

3. 15% on every dollar, dividend, interest or salary

I don't agree. I'm for a 15% flat tax. The government can easily run on 15% of
every dollar... If you earn 100 bucks, you take home 85. If you earn 100,000, you
take home 85,000; if you earn 100,000,000, you take home 85,000,000. Each person pays
more if they earn more, and for those who want to earn lots, they are welcome too.

I don't hate wealth, and such a tax is just stupid government. All that happens,
is that anyone with the capability to make that kind of money, does it not in whatever
country sets up a draconian taxation system.

[dave_p]

7. But

The Federal government may be able to run, but the Federal government isn't government. State & local government take another 10%, and less federal spending only passes the burden on to communities, as authorities, businesses or individuals.

And it's not just about government running, it's a question of what you want to do with it. If you want the investments in infrastructure, education and health that make society work, someone's going to have to pay for it, and if the government hasn't the cash to strike a better deal it'll just have to go straight from people's pockets to the Halliburtons of the world.

Europe's outstripped the US in economic growth for most of the postwar period with far higher tax burdens than the US (rising to nearer 40% in Britain and 50% in France). Europeans don't hate wealth either, but their readiness to pay for provision that couldn't be left to the market was a sound investment.

[sweetheart]

19. The states and city too

I'd sponsor a constitutional amendment that the government(s) cannot tax a citizen
more than 15% a year. Its too much, and the corporate/miltiary are sucking everyone dry.

[dave_p]

22. agree on who's doing the sucking

... but they won't be the ones foregoing the other 13-15%

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

15. Never mind that many people's effective tax rate is less than 15%

A flat tax would force those who can least afford it to pay MORE taxes. Ever wonder why Forbes was pushing it so hard?

[hfojvt]

16. that's heart-breaking

you would like to see a tax cut for the upper incomes, combined with a tax increase for the lower incomes? That's what you just proposed. Actually people in lower incomes are paying negative income taxes because of the EIC, which is refundable.

People with the capability of 'making' that kind of money are pretty few and far between. Most of the high income people are just siphoning it more than they are making it. I do not see them as Atlases propping up the rest of society. To me, they are more like Pharoahs demanding their tribute from the rest of us grunting slaves.

Maybe I am wrong. My brother says that his CEO is a genius at finding locations for hotels.

[sweetheart]

18. 50K baseline

Say that the 15% is deducted and returned to the taxpayer if they do not earn above 50K.

That's a better deal than today, and by setting no exemptions whatsoever.

[hfojvt]

24. It is a better deal than today

especially for people making more than $200,000 a year. I would be surprised if CTJ or CBPP have not already done numbers on winners and losers in that proposal, since it sounds similar to Forbes'.

Under current law though, I will already be paying zero income taxes when I make something like an $800 IRA donation (I have not figured it exactly because I do not know what my income will be, even wages, much less wages plus interest). So I will gain nothing from such a tax change, but for a hypothetical single guy making 4 times my income, $40,000, he will get a tax cut of $4,609 and also loses an $800 tax incentive to put $4,000 in his own IRA.

Since I will not be paying income taxes, it is hard to find a proposal that does anything for me, but if Mr. or Ms. $40,000 gets $4,609 I think it would only be fair for me to get some of the $1,836 I am paying into FICA, especially since it is not being saved for my retirement, but is being used as general revenue.

[Solo_in_MD]

17. That get regressive at the low end

However there are modified versions like FAIR TAX floating around that try to address it. Some say its better, but others have some real heartburn with it. I've not really looked at it, since I seriously doubt anything is going to change.

The real issue is taxes being used to as a social engineering tool. The deductions exists because often some well meaning group thought that it would be a good idea to encourage a certain behavior or give certain groups a break. That includes things like being a single parent, home ownership, business investment, alternate energy, savings, low cost housing, etc. The result is the mess we have now.

One of the most scary parts about the current US tax system is the number of people who depend on it for their jobs. Think about all the tax lawyers, investment advisers, IRS personnel, tax preparers etc that would be out of work if the US went to a simple and equitable system, almost all of them, mostly very well paid, would be out of work. Their labor, which is overhead, vice contributory to the overall wealth of the society would no longer be needed. How could those pushing for a simple system be so heartless :sarcasm:

While agreeing with Steve Forbes makes me itch, something has to be done. The FAIR TAX proposal may be a starting point, but given the high paid people who's livelihood depends on maintaining and expanding the status quo, I can't see that happening soon.

[flamingpie2500]

4. Remember when Christmas Bonuses meant CASH?

I have worked many menial jobs in the past, but a Christmas bonus meant just that!! Now all they give away are turkeys, or a gift certificate good for the store they work at.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Hey, at least you got something

My boss said he was getting me a turkey, and would deliver it to my home yesterday. We stayed home the whole ding dong day and he never showed, never phoned. Personally, I'd rather he had donated the money to Second Harvest in my name, but NOOOOO he was going to give me a turkey. Now I know who the turkey was.

[sandnsea]

21. Oh that is just wrong wrong

I so hope you don't have anybody who was counting on that turkey. My god that's pretty damn low to do something like that. That's why I had to start working for myself though. I tell those kinds of bosses off, I just can't keep my mouth shut. I hope he bites into something and chips a tooth. That'll teach him. x(

[SoCalDem]

25. My husband's boss is a wonderful boss.

My husband gets $200 in a locally owned grocery store gift cards..10 $100 bills in a christmas card, and a $6K bonus with taxes taken out after the first of the year..
He always gives us the $1K in cash, the week before Christmas..(and my husband's not the only one who gets cash bonus) The guys in the shop also get them, even though it's not as much.

The last day before the holiday, he has a catered buffet lunch for everyone and there are always about 10-20 drawings for gift certificates to Costco, or the local grocery chain.

He's a great boss.:)

When a vice president left the company in '03, he offered the free Tahiti trip to us (we went). He even paidf for expedited passports since he "sprang it on us"...and he gave my husband an envelope with $500 cash ..(in case we didn;t have extra money just then).

[sweetheart]

5. but to be fair, the federal reserve has stolen from all of us

We always hear about 'inflation', the inevitable breakdown in your
purchasing power, your savings and the value for money your wages earn.

If you were to take your wages in crude oil, and not dollars, your money
would not lose value every year. But then, why is money that is supposedly
backed by better than gold, losing value?

Lets say that 1 trillion dollars are in circulation, and that the federal
reserve issues more currency by lending more money to banks. By printing
an extra 100 billion dollars, your every dollar is now worth 91 cents on the
new dollar... and every year, the federal reserve devalues your earning value
as if they're doing us all a favour. Its a total scam, and its apologists have
fronted by far the biggest theft in history.

The dollar is backed by nothing but american paper, nothing but talk, and when
the shit comes down, the linen isn't good for anything. So when you bring up
the taxes on "$", you invoke the spirit of the federal reserve, the private
bank that rips you off as a public service, year in and year out.

The taxes are already being extracted by devaluing your money. Had you been paid
in gold these past 6 years, you'd be richer now than you are. The dollar was
floated off gold by the republicans to rip off the middle classes and wipe out
their political voice at the drop of an interest rate.

The citizen is being triple-taxed, once with inflation, once with payroll, once with
the IRS borrowing the money for a year, and then with the privatization of social
services in to fees, that for all the money spent on defense and security, people
pay additional 'tax' to be secure in their homes in the form of guns, alarms, locks,
cameras, l... . The neverending taxes of a failed state might be called 'bribes'
were a superior race to visit from a spaceship. Such an alien might ask, why,
when they rip people off at every single turn, do you not throw off such a
government if you claim to be free?

[BeFree]

6. Indeed!

Whose money is it, anyway?

[Crandor]

20. Only if you keep all your money in cash

And, quite interesting, bashing the Fed is usually the kind of thing seen on extreme right-wing sites (I'm talking about places that make FreeRepublic look sane in comparison.) Let me guess, you're also an Ayn Rand fan?

[sweetheart]

23. What are you suggesting then?

I've been reading this fascinating book, "the creature from jekyll island",
one that tells the true history of the feds formation, as a cartel to dump
corporate risk on to the public weal.

What person in the working classes keeps their money in something other than
cash? (means bank account too)... who has the dough to plow in to property when
they can barely meet the rent. Who can afford to buy any savings commodity?

Here i'm pointing to a principal mechanism that is undermining wealth today,
the nixon float off the gold standard; friedman's economic monetarism that has
apologized for devaluing the wealth of middle and working classes, basically
the poor and lower end ... people that progressives theoretically care about,
right, crandor?

I like Ayn Rand's books as porn, but prefer shakespeare for literature, thank you.

[H2O Man]

8. The terrorists

hate us for our holiday bonuses. You don't want to be like them, do you?

[zeemike]

9. He he he that terrorist thing works every time ...n/t

[Captain Hilts]

10. There also should be a higher floor on FICA. Start it at $10K or something. nt

[Kat45]

26. There also shouldn't be a ceiling on FICA

or at the very least, raise that ceiling a lot. Doing that would most likely make SS solvent for a long time to come.

[leftchick]

12. the "Haves" and the "Have Mores"

bush's base. :puke:

[WiseButAngrySara]

14. LOL! I just watched Fahrenheit 9/11 for the first time yesterday!

It was better than I thought it would be. I can't believe it's outdated by DU standards now. I wish it would become required viewing for the rest of Amurika. B* supporters would be zero unless they're brain dead (oops, that 30%...)

[Jack Rabbit]

27. Why, we all know the answer to that

Low taxes means more investment.
More investment means more growth.
More growth means mor jobs
in Mumbai and Shanghai.