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Update on "Are You There, Lurkers?" for those who are curious.

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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 08:57 AM
Original message
Update on "Are You There, Lurkers?" for those who are curious.
Some people wanted to know how things proceed with my taking on "that other site" for copyright infringment because of their habit (and encouragement) of copying wholesale stuff from DU to mock it. For those who want to know, here is the latest.

(1) I did manage to track down a likely address for the guy who runs the site. A Cease and Desist letter has been sent to him (the text of which is copied in my LiveJournal for those who are curious), and DMCA letters have been sent to Domains by Proxy (who he uses to shield his identity from discovery, like the coward he is), his co-located host, and his actual hosting service demanding the removal of my material.

I had offered over a month ago to settle all this and keep it out of the legal realm if he would remove my stuff and shut down the portion of his site dedicated to copyright infringement as an assurance that this kind of thing won't happen again. He refused, as can be seen by the plethora of my stuff still there and posted since. I didn't want to involve his hosting company because my intent wasn't to shut down the entire site, but the DMCA is quite clear in this, and they turned down my offer to walk away from it. One of them made the mistake of reposting one of my comics through Photobucket, and they were helpful in dealing with this, too.

(2) I stopped back up and looked in on the discussion about all this. It looks like they're in a tizzy. Half of them are posturing and spouting complete garbage about copyrights, having never even bothered to do any research and buying into myths that the more strident "free information" crowd have been spreading. One of them, an attorney, has been trying to set them straight, but no one seems to be listening. One of them even talked about just dissolving their LLC and re-forming it under another name the next day, like that's going to work.

(3) I love how they go out of their way to dispute my copyrights. One of them brought up DU's privacy policy, which states that anything posted here becomes public information. What they fail to realize is that "public information" does NOT mean "public domain." It means that anyone who happens along here can read what is posted, it does not mean that we give up our rights against the entirety of our works being posted elsewhere. There are precedents in this matter. Besides, three of the pieces I'm fighting over were NEVER posted on DU.

I'm making a push with my comic strip and with three of my copyrighted essays that I've reposted here. The text of An Open Letter To The South, Operation Pulpit Watch, and My Big Fag Gay Wedding Episode One (to name just three of what they've reproduced) have been protected since the second they were created according to the Copyright Act of 1976 (amended 1978) and have also been registered. In fact, since they were created after 1989 they don't even need to fly the copyright flag even though I do. I believe the law is clear in this matter.

As for my comic strip, some now are suggesting that its collage nature automatically makes it uncopyrightable. That's completely wrong. My two most common elements are a photograph of Queen Victoria taken by Alexander Bassano for her Golden Jubilee in 1887 (and variants thereon) and a photograph of the future Edward VII taken by Matthew Brady in Philadelphia in 1860. At 120 and 147 years of age respectively, both those images have long lapsed into the public domain, and since they are historical public figures their likenesses themselves have passed into the public domain. I use a number of elements of famous paintings (like the "Rainbow" portrait of Elizabeth I from 1600 and Gainsborough's "Blue Boy" for example) whose images have likewise passed into the public domain, public domain clipart, other public domain photographs, and occasionally images where I have purchased the use of them. Yes, those images are in the public domain and not copyrightable, but my TEXT and any resultant images I create through manipulation or collaging, and graphic/photographic and other elements that I create myself ARE. That's where my copyright lies and where I claim it. I don't care what anyone else does with Bassano's portrait since it's free for everyone to use, but I DO care about what someone does with my writing and the unique product it creates.

(4) My favorite quote from their boss, who only gave me a first name when he called me not thinking I could do research to find out who he really was, was "you act like you're speaking for everyone at Democratic Underground." My response, "do you bave permission from ANYONE at Democratic Underground to repost their stuff?" That was met with silence. I think he realized what he could be in for if we ALL started standing up for our rights.

(5) I absolutely LOVE the people who are accusing me of lying about military service. Here's a clue, folks: I never lied about my military service because I've never CLAIMED to have had military service. Projecting their own guilt back at me, perhaps?

(5) There's a common prevailing thought there that because we're liberals and progressives over here, that we're cowards. People think I'm blowing smoke out my ass. They'll find out otherwise when the Cease and Desist letters arrive next week. Maybe then they'll learn. And maybe if others stand up to them (those who want to can feel free to use copies of my Cease and Desist letters from my LiveJournal or PM me for text and addresses) they'll REALLY learn.

I tried to deal with this personally, they refused. I had planned to do this quietly after the first of the year so as not to ruin anyone's holidays, they went out of their way to be confrontational. I had planned to do this in a purely businesslike manner, and they made it personal. I guess you reap what you sow.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. HAHA!
:rofl:

Assholes. That's a great idea. I say you sue them and take for everything they're worth.

:rofl:
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I wonder if Skinner can go after SeeYou for the screenshots they've taken...
then posted. It does say "© 2001 - 2006 Democratic Underground, LLC." I'd assume that means this is a copyrighted work, so it is possible for them to sue. They can always link to a questionable post if they feel so inclined.

:rofl:
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. That's up to Skinner.
The images that comprise DU are owned by DU LLC. The text is owned by the posters who create it.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Like I said
Any of us who have had their stuff up there could do this. I'd stick to original essays you post instead of short comments since their copyrightability might be suspect but longer works are definitely protected under copyright. Especially if you fly the copyright notice on your blog here as I do.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Fine.
I'll buy you a cup of coffee with the award.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. OH! It keeps getting better.
I wandered back over, and one of them is suggesting they spam bomb me. I guess they realize that they've lost, and now all they have left is intimidation and denial of service.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-25-06 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. spam bomb?
what a bunch of f***ing juvenile, cowardly ASSWIPES
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. Woah, I'm impressed!
Can I be your pal? I don't want you to ever get mad at me, that's for sure. Thanks for sharing, this is informative.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for keeping us posted
on what has happened. I will check out your journal for that letter.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks.
Was it Jim Carville who said there's nothing a Conservative fears more than a Liberal who fights back?
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I come from a long line of vindictive people.
My grandfather discovered that someone he knew was in the local KKK. He found out where they held their meetings, then bought the building and tore it down. I still have the large white cross from their meeting hall out in one of our outbuildings; he kept it as a souvenir.

I don't like scattershot revenge, and I don't like sudden revenge. I let a lot of stuff roll off my back, but when I need to, I can bide my time and hit back hard in the end.

The other thing I love is they've been hurling insults at me constantly over there. Comments about my girth, my sexuality, and my beard. Amateurs. I belong to an online community where the entire objective is to be as cruel and insulting towards each other as possible. (Our motto is "if you can't be offensive, why bother?") I get worse abuse from my friends than these self-proclaimed enemies could ever dish out. And more creative abuse, too!
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. why call it vindictiveness when so far all you've done is
stand up for your legal rights? (Unless I missed something.)

Now, that's not to say you won't GET vindictive as this progresses -- I can't know.

But it offends me, and does nothing for the state of our individual rights, for you to conflate the two. There should be absolutely nothing wrong or objectionable or even all that noteworthy about simply pressing for your rights.

I hope you'll spend some time sorting it out in your own head because a post like this only fuels the fire for the Right because variations of that argument are used all too often to try to silence the Left. It's okay when THEY are highly partisan, for example, but let us lob some well-deserved and reasonably objective criticism of Bush or GOPers, and boy! we're the ones being overly partisan. We're "mean-spirited" or using "hate" language or engaging in "the politics of personal destruction" - or being vindictive - when we point out their faults and failings.

Don't conflate the two.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I'm not saying I'm being vindictive.
I'm saying I have the capability of being so when required.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. That wasn't that clear from what you wrote. Glad to have the
clarification.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for the update! This just underscores the arrogance
of these people, that they believe they can ignore the law when it proves inconvienent for them. By contrast, Skinner and the DU constantly monitor the posts here to make sure there is no copyright infringement.

We're behind you!
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you.
Some people just need to be figuratively slapped in the face. Even Free Republic isn't as bad as these people. Their entire site was conceived as a slap to DU, and the largest portion is dedicated to copying material from DU.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thank you!
You're doing us all a favor here.

So much of our battle against the Neoclowns is a battle against ignorance and theft--specifically theft of the kind of creativity they are incapable of. Generally education-free (and contemptuous of those who are educated), they get their info and their anonymous-internet courage from some Right-wing media nut, and pass it around, as it sounds like has happened here. It's wonderful to see some of them get stopped in their tracks by a little thing the rest of us like to call reality.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks.
The next hurdle is the actual complaint, which I'm working on now. I'm starting to wonder if this might actually get fought all the way to court. Any DU'er lawyers like to join the fight?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. Why don't you just take responsibility for what you post...
...and the idea that other people might criticize it, even disingenuously? They've done it to me a few times...big deal.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Oh, I do.
But this transcends that. This is the wanton reproduction, in its entirety, of my material for their own purposes.

Not to mention that they have advertising on their site, so it can be arging that they're making money off of people reading my material on their site.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Latest update: they're covering their tracks.
One thread containing an instance of my comic strip has been deleted, but not because they're giving in. No, it was deleted because it was actually harming their cause.

You see, the one fool made the mistake of using Photobucket to reproduce that installment of my comic strip. Yesterday, Photobucket deleted the image (and, with any luck, his account) for copyright infringement. It didn't look too good for them to have had a third party show them up for what they are, so they deleted it.

Of course, another three recent installments of my strip are still there. I'm sorry, but for "fair use" you have to have more commentary than "this sucks," so don't go trying to claim fair use, folks.

Hopefully I'll have more to report in the next few days, leading up to the arrival of the C&D letters at their appointed destinations.
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tinfoil tiaras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-25-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. So that's why they cant repost rEpUbLiCaNhOtTiE on there
I was wondering about that--usually they'd jump at the chance to ridicule something like that.

Hee hee hee...keep on fighting the good fight! :)
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-25-06 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. well it's no surprise those bastards don't play by the rules
Edited on Mon Dec-25-06 04:46 AM by Skittles
their heroes don't either

PS - I just read about your wedding plans - congrats :thumbsup:
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-25-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Yeah, remember, the neocons are the defenders of the "rule of law"
...unless it's copyright law.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-25-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. hey keep us updated on this will ya?
I can't rmemeber but I think it was those yahoos who called me, a GI brat/USAF veteran/troop supporter "anti-military". :puke:
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-25-06 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
26. No matter how hard you're hitting...
...it's too soft. I want to see them bleed and cry and beg for momma. Have no mercy. :thumbsup:
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