North Iowa Minuteman takes on illegal immigration

[leQ]

CLEAR LAKE — Allen Monson spends months at a time in New Mexico on a mission.

During April and October, the 62-year-old Vietnam veteran camped along the U.S.-Mexican border, watching for illegal immigrants as they tried to enter the United States

Monson has been a member of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps since 2005.

“We’re just like the Minutemen from 1776,” Monson said. “Basically, we’re a militia looking out for the good of the country.”

http://www.globegazette.com/articles/2006/12/23/local/doc458cb2f50eeaa817335263.txt

what's the concensus on the miniutemen militia here? are there some in favor of these vigilante groups? i say they're breaking the law. what do you say? look at the comments for an intersting take on how north iowa thinks. and our county voted for kerry last election.

[INDIA]

1. The consensus here is very negative toward them.

I'm not too familiar with their exact behavior, but it seems to be just a bunch of yahoos calling in illegal crossings to the border patrol. Carrying around rifles and binoculars and playing cowboy and indian.

As long as they aren't detaining illegals on their own, or assaulting/shooting illegals, I guess I'm not adverse to the whole idea.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Sorry I don't agree

Just a few weeks ago, there was a DUer here who was praising them and thought it was okay for them to kill illegal immigrants. And believe it or not, there were DUers who agreed.

[EFerrari]

22. In general, liberals tend to be "negative" about racism. n/t

[reprobate]

26. I disagree with them, but I also disagree it's about racism. At least to me.

I have nothing against anyone of any race, creed, religion, or national origin (excepting religious fundamentalists of any religion). What I oppose is forgiving anyone who ignored the law to come here.

In that direction lies chaos. We are supposed to be a nation of laws, not men. Unless you are of native American origin your forefathers came here from somewhere else, and with much effort integrated themselves into our society, and they did it legally. This is absolutely necessary for any other group from another nation or group of nations. Otherwise we don't have a society, we have another Balkans.

Once again, it's not about racism. It's about obeying the law. Ascribe any motive you wish to the Minutemen, but to anyone who values the rule of law, this is the real problem. Without the rule of law we become just a mob.

[EFerrari]

27. It's unnecessary to ascribe motives to a group that aligns itself

with White Supremacists.

This issue is complex but it unfortunately does devolve to racism. Appeals to being "a nation of laws" don't work when the law is unevenly and unjustly applied.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

Exactly the same

“We’re just like the Minutemen from 1776,” Monson said. “Basically, we’re a militia looking out for the good of the country.”

Except they're backwoods psuedo-Klansmen with less interesting outfits attempting to harrass a minority group that it's still (apparently) acceptable to regard as lesser human beings, while the originals Minutemen risked their lives fighting for independence against the strongest army the world had ever known.

NEVER SURRENDER THE FIGHT, WHITE MAN!

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. I think they are no better than vigilantes

They claim to be non-violent, yet they carry guns. And they shoot holes in the water bottles left by humanitarian workers in the SW desert for those crossing from Mexico.

They have had a few rallies here in my area. Their speakers sound like KKK clones and they assault anyone who comes to their rallies trying to present an opposing view. My friend watched them shove a woman and her kids into the street and one of the kids almost got hit by a car.

And as soon as you point out their racist viewpoints, they claim to be not racists, but protectors of the American way of life.

But not all DUers agree with me. There are quite a few here who think the minutemen are doing a good thing.

[Pastiche423]

10. Gun toting, racist little boys

the lot of them!

Btw, who gave them the authority to carry guns? Was there legislature I missed?

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Concealed carry is legal in many states now

[krispos42]

15. They don't need government authority, usually

Most of it is private land, so they just need the permission of the landowner. And the parts that are under the Bureau of Land Management I believe allow guns to be carried there in the wilds as well. I think you still need a tag or licence to hunt big game, though.

The problem here is that it is very hard to NOT see it as racist. We only have two countries that share a border with us, and illegals are coming in hordes (what, about 400k per year?) over one of them. They are focusing on the problem area, which is the Mexican border. And, of course, what is coming across the Mexican border is largely Mexican. So they are fighting a war against Mexicans, just not directly.

I'd like to think that if 400,000 under-educated Romanians fleeing crushing poverty by illegally crossing the US border and taking menial jobs every year, these people would also be about as upset. Remember, about a century ago it was common to see "No Irish Need Apply" in help-wanted ads as Irish people flooded the country in the wake of the famines in Ireland.

It is a serious issue. The vast pool of illegal and cheap labor depresses blue-collar wages as a whole and weakens unions. The globilization people love it, I'm sure. Beats moving the factory to China.

The nature of the crime, in this instance, is fighting Mexican immigration. We are fighting a "Global War on Terror", which, in this instance, means fighting Islamic radicals. We're not fighting them because they are Muslims, but because they are trying to kill us and happen to be in Muslim countries.

Of course, BushCo might be fighing this GWoT simply because he likes to kill those that are non-white and/or non-christian who have lots of oil, but at least the OFFICIAL REASON is that the terrorists are in non-white non-christian countries.

And considering the ruthlessness of the coyotes that bring them across the border, I'd be packing something too.

[Deja Q]

4. Illegal aliens vs offshoring - which is the greater threat to the US?

[Monkeyman]

6. Offshoring As to the Minute Men the new KKK

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. Illegal aliens are the greater threat

Both put American workers out of work.

Outsourcing is not quite as bad. It can be reversed with legislation, or taxed based on equitable domestic value added. It doesn't drain resources for health, education, welfare (except for those laid-off).

A militia guarding our southern border is not ideal, but GWB and his puppeteers are not interesting in stemming the flow.

[rodeodance]

5. says her became interested by watching Bill O'LIElly!!!-on the FOX News

Minutemen have no authority to arrest or detain anyone or have physical contact with illegal immigrants.

“The American Civil Liberties Union has been more worried about the illegal immigrants than they are about Americans,” Monson said.

Monson became interested in the Minuteman organization while watching Bill O’Reilly on the FOX News Network.

“I went to a training session in Arizona, then went out on our first mission in April 2005,” Monson said.

[POAS]

7. Why don't they go after illegal employers?

[razorman]

8. There's no reason they can't do both.

[POAS]

9. But they don't, all the focus is on the workers.

[EFerrari]

20. The white supremacist groups these haters are aligned with agree. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. If memory serves

the Minutemen of 1775 were there to protect and defend themselves from the British Army, which was there legally as representatives of the Crown. Don't see that what the bozos down on the border is anything like that.

[leesa]

19. These guys don't understand the Revolutionary War at all. If they did, they

would be liberals fighting against the current King George. They don't understand their own history.

[hansberrym]

28. They are fighting against the current King George.

While they aren't liberals, they are at least fighting against Bush.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13854.htm

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965


But what motivates those who constantly bash the Minutemen?


Is it that they actually agree with Bush and the Neocons?

Do they want to toss away the US Constitution and replace it with a North American Union?

Or are they racists/elitists of another stripe themselves?



Hell, I don't know why people do what they do. Unlike Bush and so many on this board, I can't see into people's hearts. I can only assess what they do. And calling bullshit on the New World Order crowd isn't a bad thing in my opinion, although it does seem to upset many "liberals" here.


In my opinion, there is nothing remotely progressive about undermining the US Constitution, or undercutting US workers by greatly increasing the number of workers willing to work for lower wages.

But that is simply my opinion. Others may find both of those to be laudable goals and might even find it convenient to hide behind the false banner of fighting racism (as does the Decider) rather than making their arguments directly.

[Critters2]

34. Well said

For the life of me, I can't figure out why flooding the market with cheap labor, depressing wages, and undermining workers' rights is "progressive".

[bowens43]

12. Racist scum , vigilantes. Human garbage.

These so called minutemen need to be stopped.

[UTUSN]

14. Unfortunately, there is NO consensus

Like most of the constituent groups under the Democratic umbrella, some of us are at cross purposes. That is to say, each constituent group has its top 1 or 2 priorities, that stem directly from that group's IDENTITY: Labor has its. Civil Rights groups have theirs. Etc. Some of the top priorities conflict with one another, for example NAFTA.

So, there are some DUers who LEGITIMATELY claim border integrity as their top issue, while some of us put the top priority on human rights, civil rights, and humane treatment. NONE of us are FOR "illegality" so perhaps THAT's the beginning of consensus. HOWEVER, that said, I think we are in MORE agreement than not, that the Minutemen have AT THEIR CORE racism-covered-with-"national security" issues.

*******QUOTE*******
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=589

Broken Record
Lou Dobbs' daily 'Broken Borders' CNN segment has focused on immigration for years.

But there's one issue Dobbs just won't take on.

By Heidi Beirich and Mark Potok

.... For more than two years now, Dobbs has served up a populist approach to immigration on nightly segments of his newscast entitled "Broken Borders." He has relentlessly covered the issue, although hardly from a traditional news perspective -- Dobbs favors clamping down on illegal immigration, and his "reporting" never fails to make that clear. He has covered the same issues, and the same anti-immigration leaders, time after time after time. In recent months, Dobbs has run countless upbeat reports on the "citizen border patrols" that have sprung up around the country since last April's Minuteman Project, a paramilitary effort to seal the Arizona border.

But there's one thing Lou Dobbs won't do. No matter what others report about the movement, Dobbs has failed to present mounting and persistent evidence of anti-Hispanic racism in anti-immigration groups and citizen border patrols. ....


http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17104568&BRD=2290&PAG=461&dept_id=569392&rfi=6

Border Patrol chief doesn’t want Minutemen near agents (Laredo, Texas)

LAREDO MORNING TIMES ^ | 08/24/2006 | MIGUEL TIMOSHENKOV

The head of the Border Patrol said Wednesday he doesn’t want members of the Minuteman Project working near his agents when they come to the Laredo area next month. The civilian group, which reports illegal immigrants to immigration authorities, is expected to start patrolling the border in the Laredo area on Sept. 11 and continue through Nov. 7.

Acting Chief Patrol Agent Reynaldo Garza of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Laredo Sector said he can’t prevent the civilians from coming to Laredo, but said they won’t be allowed to interfere with official business. ....

Esquivel said that if U.S. citizens should have any trouble with a member of the Minuteman Project, he or she should call the sheriff’s department or other law enforcement authority.

State Rep. Richard Raymond deplored the group’s plan to come to Laredo.

“They don’t have anything to do with this community,” Raymond said. “Here, we reject the racism they practice.” ....

(Miguel Timoshenkov may be reached at [phone] or by e-mail at [e-mail])


http://iapprovethismessiah.com/2006/08/moons-paper-and-minutemen.html

Wonkette: if the Border Patrol is short handed, why not call out the Minutemen? You know, the more-bark-than-bite nationalist “movement” that, according to the ACLU and the Southern Poverty Law Center, Jerry Seper and the Washington Times largely invented out of the ether? Mind you, we’re not complaining. We’re big fans of making mountains out of molehills...

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=635

Anti-Immigration Movement

Newspapers Inflated Minuteman Numbers

, Report Finds

Moon's paper and the Minutemen

The report, "Creating the Minutemen," is based on an American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) analysis of 581 articles and editorials printed in major U.S. newspapers between January 2005 and February 2006. The ACLU has been highly critical of the Minutemen, and ACLU volunteers closely monitored the group.

The first of those articles, "Volunteers Set to Monitor Border Crossings," by Jerry Seper of the hard-right Washington Times, reported that 240 volunteers had signed up. By early March, Seper was reporting that the number of volunteers had "more than tripled," came from every state, and included 16 pilots with aircraft.

During the last two weeks of March 2005, the media hype shifted into overdrive. Fifteen journalists reported the Minuteman Project had signed up "at least 1,000 volunteers." The Inland Valley Daily Bulletin ran a March 23, 2005, article headlined "2,000 volunteers expected for Minuteman Project."

BoingBoing MM-"Wetbacks" http://www.boingboing.net/2005/04/15/snapshots_of_volunte.html



Boston Globe/Vermont: http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2005/10/16/volunteers_get_cold_reception_in_vermont?mode=PF

WashPost/Hate-State: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/30/AR2005103000822.html

Pro-MM / LoneWacko: http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/004214.html

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/08/minutemen-home-for...



Minutemen: A home for extremists
Monday, August 08, 2005

This is a recent Minutemen rally. And yes, that's a Nazi flag there, third from the right.

Well, I've been saying all along that the Minutemen's core demographic is constituted of right-wing extremists, including many outright racists.

************UNQUOTE**********

[EFerrari]

21. Thank you. n/t

[GOPFighter]

16. In our area the Minutemen harassed all Hispanics

They set up cameras where day laborers, mostly Hispanic, congregated and contractors came to pick them up for the day. They aggressively took pictures of the contractor's license plates to turn them in. Soon the contractors stopped coming and a lot of immigrants, both legal and illegal, had no jobs anymore. When it was pointed out that this was hurting legal immigrants too, they refused to alter their tactics.

I think a lot of these guys just hate immigrants, legal or not.

Those guys on the border are playing soldier against enemies who don't shoot back. They get to strut around town in their cammos when they return home and look tough and tell "war" stories. There are a lot of frustrated soldier-wannabees in this country who want to play soldier but not against anyone dangerous. The Army is still having a devil of a time getting enough recruits to fight in Iraq.

[w4rma]

17. Obviously the solution is to get the government to enforce illegal immigrant laws

instead of allowing the government to look another direction because big donors want to keep exploiting the cheap labor they provide.

If there is no need for these Minutemen, they will go away.

[atreides1]

18. "If there is no need for these Minutemen, they will go away."

That's BS and you know it, what exactly is the need for the KKK or the Nazis, both groups are still around.

Is there a need for them?

Groups like the Minutemen, the KKK, and the Nazis don't stay because they are needed they stay because they know that they have support. Support that comes from those who hide under rocks or behind computer keyboards, as well as overt support.

If someone here can advocate what the Minutemen do then they aren't very far from supporting what the other racist groups do! Because if you can support what they do then you might as well go all the way!

[w4rma]

24. No. That's what will happen. Their donations will be reduced to a trickle and they will cease to be.

It's what they want, also.

[GOPFighter]

25. Some only want to end illegal immigration, but...

...I think many of them are bigots who are excited to join others like them in an organization that sounds patriotic and has political support.

I've long wished the federal government would tighten up the border but also set up a guest worker program to help thousands of Mexicans and others find jobs. That way we could insure the workers got paid a decent salary, got some benefits, and didn't get ripped off like so many are now.

[w4rma]

30. We don't need a guest worker program either. We need to quit driving down wages in Mexico.

We don't need a new guest worker program here in America to provide a new legal method of driving down wages and busting unions here.

[Critters2]

35. Precisely. Thank you.

Ilegal immigration exists for the purposes of busting unions and exploiting workers. Period.

[depakid]

23. This comment is telling

"Monson became interested in the Minuteman organization while watching Bill O’Reilly on the FOX News Network."

[hansberrym]

29. What's the concensus on the anti-minutemen...

My take is that they are racists, elitists, and generally subversive elements in bed with Bush and the Neocons.

Now it is not that I support the Minutemen (just as no one opposed to the minutemen actually supports illegal immigration) its just that I despise the methods that the anti-minutemen use: i.e. race baiting and never confronting the actual issue head on.





edited for spelling

[w4rma]

31. Neo-cons are pro-free trade and illegal immigration. They aren't neo-cons.

Closing borders doesn't help big business and therefore the neo-cons (and neo-liberals) support illegal immigration (and more "guest" workers) by allowing the law to go unenforced and by pushing for outsourcing and guest worker programs.

Anything that drives down wages and increases unemployment the neo-cons and neo-liberals support.

Learn what neo-cons actually believe, please. Don't use the term when it doesn't apply. Illegal immigration (i.e. cheap labor/near slaves) *help* big business and their donors, it sure doesn't hurt them.

[Cleita]

32. Organizations with ties to other white supremist groups don't

turn me on. They would have been better off monitoring what BushCo was doing with our money and whom he's selling our country to, like Saudi Arabia and China if they were really worried about laws being broken.

[Doctor Venmkan]

33. Tell me what "vigilante" activities these guys participate in, and I'll get back to you.

Hell, I'd settle for you telling me what laws they are breaking, if you say they're breaking the law.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Brownshirts in different regalia trying to "save" us from the brown bogeyman.

Just as their forebears were determined to "save" Germany from the Jewish bogeyman.