The United States is Insolvent

[al bupp]

Prepare to be shocked.

The US is insolvent. There is simply no way for our national bills to be paid under current levels of taxation and promised benefits. Our combined federal deficits now total more than 400% of GDP.

That is the conclusion of a recent Treasury/OMB report entitled Financial Report of the United States Government that was quietly slipped out on a Friday (12/15/06), deep in the holiday season, with little fanfare. Sometimes I wonder why the Treasury Department doesn’t just pay somebody to come in at 4:30 am Christmas morning to release the report. Additionally, I’ve yet to read a single account of this report in any of the major news media outlets but that is another matter.

More at: http://drmss.com/wordpress/?cat=1

[PDJane]

1. No, I'm not shocked,

And no, I'm not at all surprised that you haven't read it or seen a single account of the report in what passes for media.

The US has been hijacked.

[al bupp]

4. OK, then try this...

from further down in the article:

2) The future will be defined by lowered standards of living. As Lawrence Kotlikoff pointed out in his paper titled “Is the US Bankrupt?” ( http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/07/Kotlikoff.pdf ) posted to the St. Louis Federal Reserve website, the insolvency of the US will minimally require some combination of lowered entitlement payouts and higher taxes. Both of those represent less money in the taxpayer’s pockets and, last time I checked, less money meant a lower standard of living.

[Morgana LaFey]

36. All part of the plan, I'm sure

On a more positive note (sort of) -- our lowered standard of living is likely to be better for the planet.

And think of the surplus we once had, not that long ago. Unbelievable. Whodathinkit could be done so quickly?

[illinoisprogressive]

2. This needs to be made known

to the general public. it is too serious for it to go unnoticed. It must be told on the msm news.

[angry_chuck]

3. US insolvent but oil corps?

"Given the current market fundamentals we expect average prices for both oil and gas this year to be significantly above 2005 record levels," said Fadel Gheit, an energy analyst at Oppenheimer, an investment bank. "As a result, we expect 2006 earnings to be above 2005 record levels."

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7BC5FC46A0-20AA-41FF-8E3F-BEEC5D55393E%7D&siteid=mktw&

those dirty as5holes are robbing the real wealth from Americans who earn less in a lifetime than these corps single quarter earnings.

FACISM MUST DIE!

[Joe Bacon]

5. It doesn't matter because Jesus is coming in a week or 2

This is what happens when lunatics are allowed to set policy. 90% of the Republicans in Congress are on record saying they believe THE GREAT FLOAT OFF® is going to occur in a week or 2.

Right now, JC and his Sonshine Band are at the Howard Johnson's at Alpha Centauri. JC is eating a clam roll with some cole slaw on the side and he's washing it down with a HoJo Cola. As soon as he finishes his scoop of chocolate marshmallow ice cream, He's gonna get back in his Ford Explorer and drive to earth where he will pick up all the rich white Republicans in THE GREAT FLOAT OFF®.

They don't care about any debt because it doesn't matter to them. Even if THE GREAT FLOAT OFF® is delayed, they don't care because Jesus will use DIVINE INTERVENTION® to intercede and make all the debt vanish.

:sarcasm: mode now off

[al bupp]

6. Convenient belief system there...

lets them off the hook for everything from global climate change to nuclear proliferation.

Damn, why can't I just get w/ the program?

[corkhead]

12. !

:rofl:

[Flubadubya]

18. When the Dems take back Congress next week...

that's when (they hope) the Great Float-Off will occur. :silly:

They REALLY hope it will happen then so the truth of their vile and nasty reign for the past six years will not come to light. :eyes:

[PsN2Wind]

7. Is it time

to dump all the federal pensions into the The Pension Guaranty Fund?

[Yukari Yakumo]

8. So when does the dissolution of the Union occur? {nt}

uguu

[petgoat]

9. California would be better off on its own. nt

[tabasco]

16. Yeah, Arnold would lead you to peace & prosperity. n/t

[petgoat]

24. California's economy puts it in a league with Spain, Italy, and China.

That's exceeded only by Germany, France, the UK, Japan, and the USA.

Arnold is an abberation of the Diebold machines.

California has its own water, its own weather, its own seaports, its own food supply, one
of the best public university systems in the world, and a highly educated work force.

[al bupp]

38. Ever read Ecotopia?

Not very well written, but had a central plot-line revolving around the supposed cessation from the union of Washington, Oregon and California (except for the LA-San Diego megatropolis in the south).

[petgoat]

10. Now Grover Norquist can drown the gov't in his bidet. nt

[unblock]

11. "insolvent" is hypersensationalism

"no way ... under current levels" is the key phrase here.

if i'm unemployed, i don't go around saying i'm "insolvent" just because i can't repay my debts at my current level of income.

the fact of the matter is, if the u.s. were to fix its tax system and tax income at a reasonable level instead of the RIDICULOUSLY and INAPPROPRIATELY low levels income is currently taxed at, particularly for the higher earners, we could get back on top of the debt situation.

remember that not too long ago, clinton had us paying down the debt. shrub screwed that and then some, but we can still right the ship again.

the real question is where do we get the political will to do so?

well, yeah, probably by using hypersensationalist words like "insolvent"....

[Lasher]

13. There's 2 things causing our deficits.

1. Junior's adventure in Iraq.

2. Junior's tax cuts for the wealthy.

Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself with this National Budget Simulation. Eliminate the Iraq war and the tax cuts and we've got our surpluses again. I find it frustrating when the only fiscal solutions that are usually discussed are cuts in our New Deal social programs. What we're doing is lowering the peasants' standard of living so that the wealthy elite can keep getting richer and so we can keep their military/industrial complex going full speed ahead.

[tbyg52]

23. Exactly

Thanks for the cool link. (I had already figured this out just from watching the evening news, but it's good to see the actual numbers. Especially the obscene tax breaks to the wealthy. Who says we're not engaged in a class war?!)

[KAT119]

26. An Economist onLou Dobbs' recently stated the US is $43 Trillion(!) in debt

overall - though the Federal Budget website will only acknowledge $8Trillion as * gov't keeps 2 sets of books!!
(Am looking for exact link). Entire world knows we cannot pay our debts to our creditors, mainly China/Japan-M3 currency accounts halted, and currency presses in overdrive....

Talk of creating a new currency, the Amero, and a new Nation=US, Mexico, Canada without borders that all 3 gov'ts have already agreed to-signed off on, and superhighways are now being built starting in Texas.

Very controversial - supposedly a done deal by 2010. It's all on google=The North American Union.

[IDemo]

29. a Democratic representative is claiming this as well:

According to Tennessee's Democratic representative Jim Cooper, "the true national debt is $49 trillion, not the $8.3 trillion Bush reported."

[unblock]

41. a lot depends on assumptions

assumptions of future liabilities in terms of retirement commitment, interest rates, inflation, etc.

[femrap]

27. So you think the top 2% of our

country and ALL the corporations are going to pay their fair share?

Maybe if the peasants are at the gates....and armed heavily.

It all stems from the GREED that has consumed the US psyche....can it be placed under control?

[unblock]

42. as i said, it depends on the political will

our collective political will has tilted strongly in favor of the upper upper crust. not even the top 2%, more like the top 1/2 percent. yet much of the rest work hard at defending that top 1/2 percent from paying their fair share.

maybe the tide has turned, but will it turn enough? and in time?

[femrap]

47. Having witnessed the election of Sherrod Brown

to the US Senate from Ohio which is experiencing what the rest of the nation will probably experience next year (Ohio is #1 in bankruptcies, foreclosures and job loss), I think the middle and working class have come to their senses. Another example, Kansas....so many repugnants switching parties because they are sick of discussing abortion and gays.

No, I think the American working people have had enough. True inflation this year was over 11%. People know what's going on. The Housing Bubble has hit.

* telling folks to go shopping is very reminiscent of Marie Antoinett's, "Let them eat cake." He is hated and so are his corporate welfare buddies.

[SpiralHawk]

14. "Well, me and my republicon cronies are doing great." - Commander AWOl

"Too bad about you proles, smirk smirk. We republicons have been making Massive Profits from oil and munitions and shit. So why don't you citizens just shut up and sit down."

- Commander George AWOL Bush & Dick 'Five Deferments' Cheney

[formercia]

15. Settling the Debt

I guess you haven't figured it out yet. U.S. public assets such as federal lands, buildings and other infrastructures will be used to settle the debt. The big bankers and note holders get to own us all.
No more paying royalties to the government so they can be used to pay entitlements. There won't be any 'government of the people' left to pay social security and medicare because it will be all privatized.

When you go to your favorite National Park the welcome sign will probably have Chinese subtitles thanks to Bush gang.

[angry_chuck]

31. i'll be going to the park with my liberty teeth

we'll see how much bushism is left then! The Chinese people can stay, just no more repukes being spooned by big business. (well if you are a chinese repuke you must go too)

[gregflynn]

39. Be nice to the Chinese

China is the country lending us most of the money

[Selatius]

17. You likely pay a larger percentage of your income to taxes than billionaire Warren Buffett

He took an informal survey of all the workers in his office, and they wrote down what percentage of their income was taken away through taxes. It turns out Buffett paid the lowest percentage in taxes, and Buffett doesn't even use tax preparation; he simply pays what the IRS asks that he pay.

If you want money to pay off the bills, then tax the people who have the money, not the working class stiffs of America.

http://donklephant.com/2006/11/27/warren-buffett-talks-class-warfare/

[razors edge]

19. If you gathered up every greenback in existence

and handed them over to the Federal Reserve, what would we then use to pay the interest on the loans in the first place? We have been insolvent since 1913, it's now just a game of grab what you can before card house collapses.

[femrap]

28. I understand that there are 6,000

member of the Fed. Res. Sys. I read somewhere that maybe we could sue them for bankrupting us. After all, they have nothing to do with the federal government.

I wonder how you find you who the members are....I bet they're one mean group of greedy leeches.

[razors edge]

30. A start might be to

send Greenspan to Gitmo for "questioning."

[angry_chuck]

32. read this book

It is a detailed manifesto of the greed and corruption that is the federal reserve (as federal as federal express).

The Creature from Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin

More than you ever wanted to know and extremely detailed.

I highly recommend it.

greedy leeches is right on, in wiki the names of these slimebags comes up related to PNAC, Anti-trust, oil industry, banking super powers and basically every mechanism intended to guide and control society in a universal collectivist manner. (edit: also CFR, Bilderberg Group, trilateral comission, and on and on!)

Get out facists!

[femrap]

43. Thanks for the reading suggestion....

I'll check it out.

[Joanne98]

20. Lou Dobbs did a show about "two sets of books"

The story went like this. The US government has been keeping two sets of books since the 1990's. Starting in the Clinton administration and continuing on into the Chimps. They hand out the REAL set of books sometime around Christmas to 10 congresscritters. According to Lou he got the story when a democrat who had the real set told him. Anyway this Democrat (I forgot his name) was threatening to publish the real set of books with his own money so the public could see how bad it was. Lou said, and this is shocking, that the US is 49 trillion dollars in debt (with obligations) Lou hasn't said anything about this story for months. Maybe he will pick up this report.

The short of it is, we ARE broke folks. The fascist state is here. It's obvious that this was MIHOP! Grover Norquist should be hanged for treason.

This is a very important story especially since BFEE has expanded it's war to the Horn of Africa. The "war" is breaking the camel's back.

PS I have no idea why the Clintons were keeping this a secret. My best guess is that it has something to do with the story Catherine Austin Fitts has been telling. K&R!

[AngryAmish]

21. What - nobody is buying our T-Bills?

'cause that would be the definition of insolvency. The US is far from it by any reasonable standard.

[HamdenRice]

22. Why doesn't ANYONE, left or right talk about where the real savings are???

There is no necessary long term budgetary crisis. Once we cease spending $300-$450 billion a year on the military, there is no budget crisis whatsoever.

Why do they assume that the saving must come in cuts in entitlements or hikes in taxes and assume that we have to continue to spend as much on the military as the rest of the world combined?

After the fall of the Soviet Union, there was a show on PBS by retired high level generals and admirals. I think it was called American's Defense Monitor. They constantly and unanimously emphasized that the defense budget in the post Soviet world should be around $30 billion, rather than $300 billion.

Then George Bush I created our new enemy, Sadam, and 90% defense cuts and post cold war demobilization were off the table. Although Clinton made some progress, his catastrophic early mis-strategizing over military issues made him drop the "peace dividend" like a hot potato and of course Darth Vader Cheney and the idiot boy king have convinced the public that they need to spend trillions on defense with their mythical "war that lasts a generation" against terrrrr.

But the reality is, there is no reason whatsoever for a defense budget in excess of about $60 billion in todays dollars, which would free up something like $1.5 trillion over five years.

[angry_chuck]

35. we owe 50+trillion

1.5 in five years is black but we'll still be dripping red thanks to b8sh, and all those who came before him (he doesn't have any ideas, just extensions of other peoples' ideas, like a real conservative repuke)

[al bupp]

37. impressive graphic! /nt

[Avalux]

25. Our country is being raped by corporatists.

They are running the government, and they're pocketing our cash. We lose.

[Tekla West]

33. Nothing new here

People have been working these numbers for years now, no one listens to them, they never get coverage. Of the many tragic things the War in Iraq has done is to give cover to what these members of the criminal class have done to this nation. In effect, and in reality, these people are guilty of treason. They should be dealt with accordingly.

[angry_chuck]

34. to discredit it because others have

is to give in to the NWO plan. They control the MSM, why would they cover stories detrimental to their own pocketbooks?

Those who do not listen will pay the cost. The writing is on the wall, and the shit has hit the fan...

Now it is just a matter of waiting for the splatter.

[gregflynn]

40. 9 to 5

why the Treasury Department doesn’t just pay somebody to come in at 4:30 am

They do pay someone. It's just that they owe him so much back pay he won't come in until 9:00am

[NobleCynic]

44. Blast it all! Get your bloody terminology right!

Deficit is the year to year rate of change in the debt.

Debt is the total amount of money owed as an absolute.

This article confuses the two, and it reflects poorly. Despite the fact that the basic point of the article is correct, that our debt levels are too high and our deficit is not closing fast enough, it cannot and will not be taken seriously until their basic vocabulary is correct.

[Telly Savalas]

45. Even if the terminology was right, it's overly alarmist.

The debt-to-GDP ratio was worse in the years after WWII than it is now. With a sound fiscal policy they were able to turn things around then, and we can do it again now.

The longer we continue Bush's policies of unnecessary tax cuts for the wealthy, expensive wars, corruption and waste, the deeper the hole we're digging ourselves in. If we start to make the needed changes soon, then we'll be just fine.

[NobleCynic]

46. You're right, there is still more than enough time to turn it around

Mixing up the terminology is just a little pet peeve of mine. One can't expect to be taken seriously when you screw up the basics.

But yeah, I suppose we'll see just how much political will the Congressional Dems will be willing to spend getting the debt back down, its just a pity they'll have to wait until Bush is out to make any real progress on it.