Believe it or not, I'm going to defend Bush for a second....

[hyphenate]

A friend and I were talking about the future history books where GWB will be touted as the worst president in American history. All well and good, I said, but in GWB's defence, I pointed out that we cannot blame everything on him that has happened in his presidency. We must never, ever forget how much people like Cheney and Rove, the PNACers and all the other extreme right-wingers had to do with all the disasters that have taken place over the past six years, and how, right now, GWB is really the only visible asshole, while Rove and Cheney become partially invisible, hopefully to screw things up again sometime soon when all the controversy settles down.

Now, I'm not in anyway excusing GWB's behavior, and he is, after all, the poorest excuse in the world for a human being, but just to remind people that he is not entirely to blame for everything on his own--he had plenty of help in fucking things up.

We must never forget this--that each and every single member of the upper echelon of the republican party has had his finger in the pie, and that each and every one of them must be punished for their participation.

If we allow the pukes to use GWB as the single scapegoat, those at the top will be allowed to disappear and rear their ugly heads at some future point and try once again to make the US their own personal war game. Punishment is not only advised for all, but necessary to make our country once again safe for the democracy it once was.

[knowbody0]

1. we must never forget

that it was ameriKan APATHY that allowed the pond scum to take over. In this land of plenty and opportunity, we became extremely lazy as a whole.

[King Coal]

2. You're not being fair.

To the pond scum that is.

[hyphenate]

13. Admitted

But I think that a lot of people have managed to become a lot more smarter since this administration came into office, and that is a good thing.

[knowbody0]

19. agree. the worm has indeed turned.

Having lived through the Vietnam B.S., I am a part of the population that relaxed. Never again!

[hyphenate]

21. In my own life

I never really cared too much about politics until the late 80s, although I had some awareness. It wasn't until I saw that politics was part and parcel of everything I WAS interested in (entertainment, mostly) that I knew I had to get far more involved than I had been. I was largely uninspired before then, though I remember helping out the McGovern campaign, but being too young to vote in that election. Being from Massachusetts, I was destined to be an outspoken liberal regardless of how much actual interest I had!

[BOSSHOG]

3. I agree with your premise that all should be punished

I sincerely and strongly believe that anyone remotely connected to PNAC (which would include the yahoo flag waving fake patriots and the right wing hate talkers) should be tried for crimes against humanity, a just trial will result in a guilty verdict, then all should be hanged from the neck until dead. bush should be hanged twice. Once for being guilty, twice for being so fucking stupid.

[hyphenate]

14. I wish we could guarantee that

would happen, but alas, I think that most every single one of them will walk away when this shit is done. And I think that their hubris will allow them to think that they could get away with it all over again, and sadly, I think it could happen.

[wryter2000]

4. It goes way back

I tend to think of the beginning of this crap as starting when Raygun was elected president, but of course, things were already in motion in order to get him elected.

The first stirrings, I believe, started when George Wallace became the darling of the college lecture circuit.

This is one of the reasons I'm against impeaching Bush now. There are many, many more monsters we have to get out of our political system. Getting rid of Bush and Cheney isn't enough.

[Karenina]

12. Ike warned us. It began when JFK was assassinated.

The day the Texas Oil/ MIC Mafia, GHWB and LBJ hit their mark.

[Auntie Bush]

26. Where the hell has MoPaul been? Haven't seen hide nor hair of him.

Or have I just been hiding out in the wrong places?

[hyphenate]

15. These people have a lot of

power that we could never even imagine. It's sad, but it's true. If we ever convince ourselves that this is truly a free democracy, we will find out otherwise quickly.

[hyphenate]

18. If you recall

a deal was made with Iran by one of the "intelligence" agencies that the hostages would be released only after Reagan was elected. It was supposed to be a "sign" that the Iranians were afraid of him, and not of Jimmy Carter. Carter was completely helpless at the time as a result, and the whole thing was designed to make Democrats look weak.

There has been, for some time, collusion with many of the dictators of the world by several of the alphabet agencies, some of which we're not even supposed to know exist.

[peacetalksforall]

5. My heirarchy is as follows for blame or otherwise:

. The Baron Party runs everything on a planet basis - the nameless and faceless.
. The U.S. faction of barons, plus the those with names and faces (from 'whence' Carlyle comes.)
. PNAC - which is really a plan dreamed up by names and faces and then presented to the above. They could not have gone forward without approval of the above groups.
. The Supreme Court and lawyers from and for the top two groups ensured they got it.
. Not sure who finally approved the puppet fund raiser and back slapper (George, Jr.), but he is at the bottom of the ranking.

. Then we have all the other factions that help - Israeli inbeds in goverment - some with dual citizenship, media owners, christian leaders, weapons manufacturers and earth resource extractors, Repub Party money gatherers and contributors. All promote the Baron agenda - profit for a few and control of the peoples.

There is ONE great thing that George and the higher ups can be CREDITED WITH - they caused us to get more involved in our country, learn how it works, their crimes against us, and they brought us the knowledge that we are cousins to millions of people around the world who are also victims who don't want to be - victims - and are doing something about it - starting with the education. So thank you George and the barons - we are smarter. We've dug in and are learning civics, law, constituional rights, history, and we all know more about the environment and where the planet is heading because of those who are trying to destory it, us, and control and own us as long as we are submissive and obedient and never protest.

[hyphenate]

20. As I pointed out above

I agree that there are many factions in secret command that most of us will never know about. This is just something that has gone underground in order to make them look nonexistent. However, it's obvious that there is definitely an unseen force controlling many aspects of our government, simply because some things can't be accounted for with the regular channels.

One example is Grover Norquist--a very dangerous man who holds a great deal of power and doesn't "appear" to be in any position to hold such power. We, normal citizens, will likely never know the truth about much of what goes on behind those closed doors.

[Nite Owl]

6. But isn't he the

Decider in chief?

:shrug:


Really though it is the entire conservative movement. They are total hypoocrits, everything that they say is the opposite of reality and they all need to have some form of accountability brought down on them. Letting Nixon go 'for the sake of the country' was one of the worse things that happened, it allowed the movement to grow since the cons saw that the consequences were temporary and pretty much only the at the top. It was like lopping off the head of a dandelion, the roots were still there and back it came stronger than ever.

[hyphenate]

22. Much has changed

through the years. Once upon a time, Republicans stood for something decent, and they were above all else, fully aware of our constitutional and civil rights. If you look at the values that Republicans stood for before the 1960s, you will see fiscal responsibility and a concern for the Bill of Rights. It wasn't until the assholes on the religious right got involved that the real "Republicans" turned overnight into the party of divisiveness and intolerance. Those who left Republican politics then were replaced by greedy, underhanded and completely depraved individuals who sought power and money in exchange for their cooperation.

It's a travesty, but the public was never supposed to know exactly how much blood these bastards have on their hands.

[valerief]

7. Did they put a gun to his head to take the presidency? Well, maybe

they did.:shrug:

[hyphenate]

23. You never know

but since we DO know that his IQ isn't anywhere near even the average of 100, it's possible we've been dealing with someone who can't understand the consequences of his actions, and has only been kept as a poser because he's not capable of knowing a whole helluva lot more than they're feeding him.

[valerief]

33. Yeah, like a Faux Noozcaster. nt

[A Simple Game]

8. "we cannot blame everything on him that has

happened in his presidency."

I stubbed my toe on a rock two weeks ago tomorrow. I didn't blame that on *.

See, I can be fair too.

Wait a minute, now that I think about it, that rock was never there before * got elected!

[hyphenate]

24. lol!

I, too, have many things I can't exactly blame on him. However, he has been made into the poster boy for all the fuck-ups that have happened in his time in the white house. He obviously doesn't mind or doesn't understand how that is going to affect him for the rest of his life. However, it will continue (we hope) to keep the family name tarnished for eons to come in respect to politics.

[ironflange]

9. Looks like they take turns

[hyphenate]

25. Great shots! eom

[yardwork]

10. We the people should have cleaned up after Watergate

I remember a lot of people saying that it was a good thing that Ford pardoned Nixon because it would have been "bad for the country" to put Nixon on trial and probably in jail.

Well, it turned out to be really, really bad for the country to sweep it all under the rug and allow George H. W. Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, and company to continue digging their nasty sharp little vampire teeth into the nation and world.

It was a mistake for us to forgive and forget Watergate, it was a mistake to ignore Iran-Contra, it was a mistake to ever think that Al Gore and George W. Bush would be "about the same" as presidents (a lot of people made that mistake in 2000).

Sometimes it is important to say "I told you so" and then follow through.

[hyphenate]

27. Well, I tell you

Sometimes lately I've been thinking about the impeachment thing, and I almost hope we don't impeach. And I'll tell you why. If the people of this country ever try to impeach on the basis of misdeeds in the white house again, we can point out to them that impeaching Clinton on the basis of a blowjob makes an impeachment a laughable method of punishment. It shows that our repuke friends are completely and totally without scruples because they have let some of the worst criminals escape such punishment for failing to condemn the actions of "their" president. Future politicians can point to the lack of morals of the current congress in allowing such freedom of tyranny and culpability in this administration to run wild, and not seek the removal of those responsible for it.

We need only let them hang themselves in front of the whole country to show that impeachment isn't a measure that is consistently used for the reasons our forefather chose to include it. And that makes it an historical farce in the end.

[kath]

32. Good what you said about Ford's pardon of Nixon being BAD for the

country. Since your post, the news came out this evening that Ford died. Several threads here talking about how good Ford was -- BAH, I say to that. The "forgive and forget" thing with Watergate was NOT the way to go, as you so aptly put it. Ignoring Iran-Contra, which was TREASON, dammit, was even worse.

[ironflange]

11. OK, here's a quick one I did with Rove pulling the strings

[UTUSN]

16. He EMCOMPASSES his mal-admistration, and IS responsible for EVERYTHING

I thought you were going to "credit" him for something REAL. O.K., then, *I* will. Here 'tis:

Since he grew up in proximity of the Southern Border, including booty calls to Boys' Town, he has a PASSING familiarity with Meskins. So, this whole "BORDER SECURITY" issue would be MUCH different, in the HORRENDOUS sense, if SENSENNBRENNER and TANCREDO had had UNFETTERED sway over policy.

The WINGNUTS (his base) have been FURIOUS at him for not "building the fence" and "DEPORTING (TWELVE FUCKING MILLION" and INVADING MEXICO.


I'm saying, if NON-border Rethugs had been in charge, the border issue would be TOTALLY insane.

[hyphenate]

28. The whole immigration

situation is already a farce, because for many, it's a sure sign of intolerance for others and a definite sign that white, middle-class men are terrified of anyone who seeks to come here for asylum or for decent working conditions. A hundred years ago, the "melting pot" that was America was hope for so many to help them in their quest to better themselves. And if we forget that now, we're all going to be damned for promising something we can't deliver, even if we are not personally involved.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

17. Buck Stops Here.

The holder of the highest office of the greatest country of the world holds the job of surrounding himself with the people who are most qualified to help him run the business of the nation.
He has access to the best and brightest minds of our lifetime. We choose him because we trust him to make the right choices. And therefore, in the end, he is responsible for the outcome.

That comes with the office.

Unfortunately for the world, the people of the United States of America made a bad choice. A very bad choice. And now we all have to live with it.

[hyphenate]

30. I think

that a lot of people showed way too much apathy and lack of knowledge in the past two presidential elections. When I was without my computer for over 2 months, I found that many people showed a general lack of interest in politics, and had no compelling reason to be more interested for any reason. Fortunately, I live in Massachusetts, and this made a difference in the long run, but I would think that in areas where people just don't have any particular reason to understand more about politics, their level of knowledge is in the range of 1-4 on a 1-10 scale. It stinks, but it's reality.

[Hamlette]

29. yeah, that's what we said about Nixon.

We said, we must never let the GOP take control again.

Reagan was as bad (almost) as Bush.

[hyphenate]

31. I agree

but strange as it may sound, Nixon turned into a far better president than the sorry excuses for 40,41 and 43. Hell, even Gerald Ford was a better president than 40,41 and 43!