I am seriously thinking of leaving DU

[Mortos]

It has become an example, in many cases, of the worst behavior winning out. From gleeful posts on the death of Gerald Ford to a 90,000 plus member group's inability to raise a substantial amount of money for a worthy cause to the increasing deletion of any post deemed innappropriate, this group, in many ways, no longer represents my views and beliefs.

I have mellowed with age and am no longer the firebrand I was after the 2000 and 2004 election when I wrote "My name is Steven Vincent and I am not afraid".

I am still not afraid but I am often ashamed of the comments and posts that appear here.

DU has become, it seems, a mirror image of the right wing sites that are filled with hateful partisan demagoguery of anything on the other side. A fearful paranoia that seeps into every post and springs forth in accusation and condemnation of anything that veers from the accepted party line.

There are still good people here, but, as in most cases, their voices are drowned out by the screaming hateful crowd that questions every independent idea, everyone who dares cross that center line.

Maybe I just need a break. Maybe I am too snsitive.

We shall see.

[Philosoraptor]

1. happens every time a president croaks.

[Bubba Zanetti]

5. you mean a repub president....

..... I am not leaving, but it is sad that people choose to live with such hate in their veins.

[Warpy]

19. When the announcement was made that Kennedy had been shot

a classmate said, "Good! I hope he dies!"

This stuff isn't new and it's not confined to DU and it's certainly not confined to GOPs. If Clinton had not survived his bypass surgery, you'd have seen plenty of critiques here about his horrible economic policies that continued the Reagan pattern of fattening the rich while starving the middle and working classes.

People are mixed bags. There is going to be some criticism of all of them.

Cope.

[wryter2000]

30. Welcome to DU

:hi:

Not one of our better days today. I hope you stick around.

[nolabels]

21. And ten or twenty thousand more seem to come here afterward

I can remember when the big number was hitting 15,000 or so :shrug:

[NotGivingUp]

2. you make some very good points

[Snotcicles]

29. Let me echo Steve.

Been feeling the same way lately.
I rarely post anymore.

[acmavm]

3. Bye.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. Your My name is Steven Vincent post was one of the most powerful

ones ever on DU. IMHO.

Don't let the behavior of a few run you off. I ignore it.

And, peace to you in 2007.

[Deja Q]

9. Ditto

[YOY]

6. Stiff upper lip

If someone cannot discuss things with you rationally, don't post replies to them.

I can think of 3 or 4 DUers that displayed the negativity you have seen. I just ignore them (and I don't mean the ignore button.)

[Saboburns]

7. Long time lurker, few time poster.

I agree with much of what you witness.

But if you leave, THEY win.

Never let THEM win.

Somethings are worth fighting for.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. Mind If I Ask You A Sincere Question?

I appreciate your response and agree with it, however it was a bit perplexing to me.

You are right that if you leave, they win, and that it's worth fighting for. But if that's the case, as you so wisely spoke, then why do you post so infrequently?

It seems like you have quite a rational voice, though I can't recall seeing your posts before. We need all the rational voices here we could get, and fighting for that would entail actually participating and helping to offset the radicals. So why don't you post more? DU needs you to.

I mean that sincerely and with honest inquiry. I've seen on several occasions posters with low counts who have been here for quite some time that post wise sentiments when they do post, but so infrequently. We need them to get involved and join the discussion. Growing in numbers is the only way that rationality can begin to overtake some of the loud hammering extremism we see here sometimes.

[JacksonWest]

69. Sometimes nothing needs to be said.

I've lurked here for years, and I've joined, as a poster, in the last few months. IN some debates, there's really no reason to comment. A low post count makes you a target. Also, in a lot of cases, it's a waste of time.

I think the spirit of discourse is alive and well. Some posters get very proprietary about this board-and that gets annoying.

However, as a hopefully rationale voice, sometimes the most rationale thing to do is nothing.

[Ron Green]

79. Another issue is the time it takes to participate.

I find that simply living my life precludes much of the time required to read through long threads, post thoughtful responses, do occasional research, and keep checking back.

I'm astounded by post counts of more than 10,000. Do these folks ever go outside?

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alarimer]

87. bullshit

I suppose you think Free Republic is the epitome of virtue. Gerald Ford is fair game for criticism, dead or not. Why the hell do we or anyone else have to be nice to somebody just because they are dead. If they deserve the criticism (especially for his bullshit pardon of that criminal asshole Nixon- I am glad he's dead too by the way) fire away.

You are clearly in the wrong place.

[lukasahero]

92. "Islamofascism"? Hmmm, where have I heard that word used before?

Oh that's right. Never mind...

[Jo March]

97. Hatred towards Lieberman?

Islamofascism?

Wow. What an amazing post. :eyes:

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay. :hi:

[Midlodemocrat]

102. Let's hope it's a short one.

:eyes:

[Jo March]

107. "Let's hope it's a short one...

without any tears..."

sung to "Happy Christmas (War is Over)"

:evilgrin:

[LostinVA]

115. It was

[LostinVA]

101. Oh giggles -- this will be fun

I think classes start back up at LIberty Baptist in about three weeks, huh? Enjoying your vacation?

[Zhade]

109. Fuck you, you freeper Nazi.

Your ass didn't last long!

[coalition_unwilling]

112. Lieberbush has the blood of 650,000 Iraqi civilians on his hands - n/t

[Bjornsdotter]

8. Everyone is

...allowed to have an opinion.

Everyone is allowed to donate/not donate to whatever charity they choose.

I think you need a break, it happens to all of us. Come back when you are ready.

Cheers

[MockSwede]

77. Larsson

Love the quote.

Wonder how many folks now know who he is?

Norrgrann - family name in the old country.

[keithjx]

10. I hear you.

I have been on since 2004, and I've just stopped posting much. But one thing I realize over and over again is that the only way I can make a difference is to contribute. If I give up entirely, I stop making any difference at all. That being said, a break can help. Like I said, I don't post often any more....
Peace....
KJ

[LibraLiz1973]

11. I also feel that whats going shows us as NUTS

and the mirror image of Free Republic. What we loathe the most is what some are doing over here.
Many here are just as unhinged, just as crazy, just as cruel. The negative posts about the death of the Freepers son and todays pile on of Gerald Ford are two prime examples of what is wrong with THE WORLD.

That said, the good outweighs the bad here... on most days.

And I have to say I totally disagree with what you said about raising a substantial amount of money.
I would argue that over 12,000 is ALOT of money- especially when you consider it was only up for less than a week.
And there were 2 other inside DU fundraisers that raised 2,600 between them to help DUers.


Remember... we're democrats... which means alot of us don't have tons of extra cash lying around.

The deletion of so many posts IS alarming- but I know in some cases it was absolutely necessary. (Freepers son's death scuffle)

Face it- not everyone here is normal. Not everyone here is someone you would want to know. But more than not, the people here represent the best of the Democratic Party and what it stands for. There are a few dozen bad apples in the bunch- and they clearly try to post the most negative, hateful things possible- to piss people off and get them to leave.

Don't let them get you down- it's what they want. They are clearly angry with the world and enjoy being insufferable pricks.

Take a break and come back!

[tinfoil tiaras]

59. and the good posts about the Freeper's son's death outnumbered the bad

There were only 2 negative posts and i think one of those people that made the negative post was TSed.

I agree. I never take joy in anyone dying. Not former President Ford and surely not the Freeper's son.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

12. Have fun, then.

We don't really need all these dramatic send-offs all the time.

[Pathwalker]

13. No one is anything other than their worst mistake.

Doesn't matter anymore whatever else you've done in your life, all you end up being IS your worst mistake. I wonder how those who spew such hatred over everything would like that being their epitath. Perhaps they can tell everyone what their worst mistake is, so when they can die, that's what we can remember about them - and nothing else.They even have entire threads congratulating themselves on how snarky they are, as if was a proud accomplishment. As one DUer once said - "Many people use DU as their personal colostomy bag". Sadly, he was correct.

[hfojvt]

83. I think some of that is true

a book I usually hate Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people" said something to the effect that negative actions are often all we remember. That an unkind comment can be your legacy to the person on the receiving end.

Sometimes I do want to react to the 'sainthood of the dead'. When Goldwater died, it seemed like he became Saint Barry, and I wanted to scream 'in my guts, I STILL know he's nuts!!!' Another example was a student of mine. I had my students do book reviews and one student handed in a revied that was 50% plagiarized from the book - no quote marks, no citations, just passages from the book. The following summer he died in a car accident and the local paper was full of stories about how terrific he was. All I could think was 'he was a plagiarizer'.

But it is one thing to mention something negative about a person, and another thing to go from those negatives to ABSOLUTE CONDEMNATION!!!1!! It's nice to have a little balance, a little moderation.

[unblock]

14. just as an fyi, du does not have 90,000+ members

90,000 member registrations does not mean 90,000 members. some people register many times. this usually results in a quick ban, but the member registration ticks up regardless.

also, consider that some of the members are inactive, have registered but chose to rarely if ever post, or are simply on vacation this week.


as to the content, we all get frustrated at times, and sometimes taking a break is a good solution. but consider that, if you care enough to bemoan insufficient donations, you can do more to help set the tone by continuing to post than you can by leaving in disgust.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. I'm Disheartened By Much Of The Vitriol Here Too, But Don't Be Blind To How Much Decency Is Here Too

It's easy sometimes to get frustrated by some of the irrational and extremist postings here, as they are the ones that tend to stick out the most. But if you truly explore DU: GD Politics, LBN, Editorials And Articles,even much of GD, you'll find there is still so much decency and brilliance here that makes being here so worthwhile. Don't let the loud talking extremists ruin your experience here. Just seek out the threads, topics and forums here that do not contain the radical vitriol.

What I'll disagree with you on is the money raised. I think 13 grand and counting for a great cause is something to be proud of.

[WI_DEM]

16. There are mean-spirited people in every community, so don't get disheartened

and stay and fight the good fight.

[silverlib]

17. The timing of the crowd

I went to bed late last night - and was very enthusiastic about the response to the death of a 'man.' And this morning I slept in until 9 am and was astonished at the change in tone of the posts.

I am not ashamed of my fellow DUer's. A democracy is all about everyone being able to express their thoughts. And DU, although not a democracy, is the only place I have found where I can get the real news and read the differing views of progressives and liberals. Some things never change, and I always remember the words at the trial of the Chicago Seven - something like, "hell, we couldn't even agree on what to have for lunch."

If I agreed with everyone here, even the mods and administration, this would not be a very good place.

[SharonRB]

18. Just ignore those posters

And try staying away from GD for a while. Most of the arguments and flame wars I read are in this forum. There are saner forums and groups in other parts of DU. I try to stay out of the fray, most of the time and concentrate on threads where cooler heads prevail and civil discussion takes place.

[seabeyond]

20. well, i agree with you. attack at every turn, the inability to allow others

differing opinion in respect with the understanding that just possibly there may be more than one way to see things. and certainly the better of who we are in someones death. it hurts us not to stay quiet if we cannot give condolences in death. there does seem to be the black and white group think of the right board. in the past we were better than that. today it seems more the norm to have the angry divisive me against you posts.

i have spent the last while in the more informative latest news and editorial rooms. du has always allowed me to be on top of the issues. i am no longer finding that satisfaction in gd. yet can still maintain it in other rooms.

thank you for your post.

[durrrty libby]

22. I feel your pain on the paltry donations and sometimes

a break can be helpful, but don't lose your sensitivity




:toast: :loveya:

[LibraLiz1973]

36. I really cant believe your calling the donations PALTRY

That's really low, IMHO.

OVER twelve thousand dollars in a week? At Christmas?
And there were 2 other DU fundraisers right here on DU that collectively raised $2600.
Plus another group of people who got together to help a DUer keep her apartment.

So we're talking about 15 plus thousand dollars.
What's paltry about that?

had the fundraiser gone up at the BEGINNING of December (NO, I'm not being negative- it's just a comment. I think Skinner and crew did a great job & I bet next year it will go up earlier and raise more)it would have raised more. A few days before Christmas many people had already spent the bulk of their funds and didn't have anything left. Plus, you have NO IDEA what people do outside of DU as far as charity goes. So saying it's paltry is a real slap in the face to everyone who donated.

The membership at DU is nowhere near 90,000. There are probably only 6 thousand of us that check in regularly- IF THAT.
So 12k is alot.

[Jo March]

58. I totally agree, LibraLiz1973

$12K is NOT paltry especially at Christmas. To say that it is - well, that's shameful in itself.

DUers came together over the last few weeks to help out other DUers in their times of need. It was a beautiful thing.

I guess if you want to find the bad, you will never be disappointed, right?
:eyes:

[Lars39]

62. I've known of brick and mortar towns that couldn't raise that much.

$12K is an *amazing* amount of money for a group of people to raise on short notice.

[Jo March]

90. Exactly! $12,300 at this time of year is wonderful!

I think that we all rock! :yourock:

:woohoo: to DU!

Damn the naysayers! Full speed ahead!

[Lisa0825]

71. THANK YOU.

I am really tired of people compaining about the donations. Even Skinner complained about a lack of replies when he first posted it. I think most of us suffer from compassion overload every holiday season!

Well, I have given to several people/orgs in the past month DESPITE the fact that I was barley scraping by recently myself. I resent being considered stingy or cheap, and since folks are hurling insults at us as a community, that includes me.

Yes, we have 90,000 members, but a few thousand who post regulary. Those few thousand include many people who can't afford to give, or maybe have given to others in need we know nothing about. So the fact that our community has raised $15,000 is by NO means PALTRY!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Jo March]

89. DU did an awesome job!

I saw that $12K and couldn't believe it. Christmas is the worst time to try and raise money. The fact that DU raised $2600 and then $1000 for another DUer and then other DUers sent more money privately to another DUer I was trying to help and then raised $12K on top of that??

Oh, and we all raised $50K for Andy's surgery?

Yeah, we all just suck. :eyes:

But I do loves me some Lisa0825! :loveya:

And I loves me some LibraLiz1973!! :loveya:

[fishwax]

114. I agree completely

well said. :thumbsup:

[question everything]

23. I agree with most of your observation except one

about raising money. I have been sending money to worthy causes in my own back yard - to groups that collect and distribute food, that provide shelter to the homeless, to the Salvation Army and to our alumni that provided the education that makes it possible for us to donate.

So by the time DU came with its own drive we have ran over our budget, and then some.

Perhaps next year.

There are many DUers here who hurt financially, some of them even post their stories here. Many barely live from paycheck to paycheck so I don't think anyone should judge how others use their money.

Incidentally, some of us thought that helping DUers should come first... my thread on the topic was promptly locked so there you have it..

[Jo March]

93. question everything, there were many DUers working behind the scenes

to help others. I was amazed at several tireless DUers who PM'd me and arranged for help for other DUers.

This is a difficult time of year for people who are struggling to put food on their families (lol) and then try to squeak out some extra $$ for presents for their kids when there is no extra money to be found.

DUers have a history of caring and sharing and being a great family. We fight and argue but, at the end of the day, we still love and care about each other. That's a great thing, IMHO.

:hug: to you!

[donsu]

25. well, goodbye, maybe you'll be happier some place else

nt

[Nikki Stone1]

26. There seems to be a lot of immaturity at times, combined with a shallow reading of events

The death of a President SHOULD bring out debate, especially when the person committed acts that were (and are) controversial. Pardoning Nixon was controversial when Ford did it and it probably lost him the 76 election. (He thought as much himself). But this does not mean that Ford made this decision single-handedly. My guess is that deals were made behind the scenes, and at least some levels of the Democratic party had to go along with that deal to prevent Ford himself from paying the consequences for it during his short presidency. I do believe that many in Congress felt that moving on from scandal and focusing on the Vietnam debacle was imperative for the stability of the nation. In the same way, Speaker Pelosi and Harry Reid are also talking about moving away from continued strife and scandal by taking impeachment off the table and concentrating on getting out of this mess in Iraq.

These are issues that deserve discussion, especially as they apply to the present day. But there is no reason to take personal, immature potshots at a man who was thrust by events into a tough position. It is the nasty and personal Donald Trump like invective that I can't stand.

[devilgrrl]

27. Don't let it get you down.

The "hide thread" and "ignore" buttons are your friend.

[pitohui]

28. this should be a lounge post

but saying you'll take your ball to another playground if everyone doesn't bow down and shed a tear for the evil jerry ford is a bit over the top, doncha think?

i was never comfortable w. the post where it was encouraged that people come out and post their real names either, sorry, privacy does have a value in a nation where large numbers of people, my husband among them, are black-listed on airlines and who knows where else

so i guess we'll have to agree to disagree

my idea is, if you don't want to post, don't post, don't leave a post claiming that some time in the indefinite future you will punish everyone by not posting

[Nikki Stone1]

34. I disagree. This is a post about the public discourse surrounding politics

And I have found myself getting more and more disgusted by the immature bile that poses as political commentary. Yes, the neocons do it without thought or remorse: people like Anne Coulter and Bill O'Reilly and countless smarmy others should be pulled out of political discourse and dumped into the WWF. That's where their ilk belongs. But there is no reason people here have to sink to that level.

And that is not a lounge issue.

[IntravenousDemilo]

47. As a member of and donor to the World Wildlife Federation, all I ask is...

...please don't dump Coulter and O'Reilly into my organization.

[Nikki Stone1]

49. LOL!!! (Actually I was thinking of something worse than wrestling, but roller derby seems extinct)

:)

[IntravenousDemilo]

52. Roller derby is not dead...

...not to those of us who remember Skinny Minnie Miller.

:)

By the way, I'm hitting a milestone. One more post, and I'll have the same number as my birth-year.

[Nikki Stone1]

55. I used to watch it as a kid. :) (Go on and make your post)

Although it won't be marked on the DU ticker

[IntravenousDemilo]

64. Not only are we going to 1946, we're going to 1947 and 1948 and 1949 and 1950 and 1951, and we're

going to 1952 and 1953 and 1954! And we're going to 1955 and 1956 and 1957 and 1958. And then we're going to 1959, to take back the Birth-Year! Yeaahhhh!

Actually, it sounds a lot better if Howard Dean says it.

Oh, yeah, I know it won't be marked on the DU ticker (too bad, really, as I never understood why the ticker stops at 1000), but I can always check the profile thingy next to the envelope thingy beside my name, and go "aaahhh..."

[Nikki Stone1]

66. Well here's to a long and satisfying trip through the years

:)

[Buzz Clik]

37. Dude, you are part of the problem

As a fellow Indiana Dem, I can tell you I'm not proud of the fact that you can't wait for the man to be embalmed before you start your spew.

Didn't like Ford. I voted for Carter with no regrets. But this level of hate? No thanks.

[Nikki Stone1]

42. You talkin to me, Buzz?

?

[Buzz Clik]

57. No. Not at all.

[Nikki Stone1]

61. Cool.

Peace.

[Hoosier Dem]

31. Don't let the Negative win...

One of the things that I find most distrubing about DU is that several vocal posters here are nothing more than a mirror image of Ann Coulter, Rush, etc. On both sides, these people represent the worst in politics today.

Like you, I have also mellowed with age. Even in my heyday, though, I never spewed the kind of venom that some people here gleefully do. Part of me wants to chok it up to them being "kids" and coming of age in the Gingrich World, where bile and rancor replaced civility and ideas. For them, this is normal politics. They cannot imagine an Everett Dirksen or a Margaret Chase Smith in the Republican party. Tha't sbecause there are none; they were driven out by Gingrich and DeLay.

One of the things that has most impressed me about Barak Obama is his desire to get back to that time where we can disagree and not hate each other. Democracy is founded on the idea of civil disagrements. it is a lesson we should all take to heart.

[Cleita]

32. Take a break. It may be what you need.

As far as the money raised, by and large our demography is better educated but less affluent. Christmas is really not a good time for donations because every charity has their hands out and the cushions have been shook out by then. The dollars available get spread thinner. I do hope they collect more but I know I was tapped out soon after Thanksgiving.

[Buzz Clik]

33. Great post.

I never cease to be amazed at the reactions from the rabble you describe.

What keeps me here are the intelligent people who are willing to think and rise above the hate.

Stick around. No sense allowing the lowest common denominator to win the day.

[CJCRANE]

35. Nearly a 100,000 members

but how many active members are there? Only a few thousand. And probably only a few hundred daily posters.

And let's face it - this is a discussion board - so you're bound to get opinionated people. Don't take it personally.

And it's always been like this. DU goes in waves, sometimes it quietens down for a bit, then when a big political story hits all hell breaks loose. That's what it's here for. If we were all nicey-nicey about everything it would be boring.

On edit: spelling!

[UTUSN]

38. It is a myth, a fantasy

that there is a condition of being that is ALL GOOD (or bad), PURE (or not), PERFECT (or not). As one who has been FLAMED for any of several opinions---this would be VICIOUSLY FLAMED by supposedly other Dems, and usually by those who claim the MOST ideological PURITY----I still know that we are ALL a MIX of EVERYTHING, good and bad, the whole spectrum. It's human nature.

I just wonder (not much, actually) where you are going to find ONE discussion board, or ANY group of people, who will live up to the impossible standards you THINK you believe in.

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/

[Ian_rd]

39. Every organization and/or group has its morons. Liberals and DU are no exception.

If you post anything on DU deemed contrary to the most widely accepted liberal views of any given moment, even in a calm and thoughtful way, you are sure to be attacked with the kind of brainless, frothing vitriol that you would expect when trolling on the freeper forums.

A few of my own experiences:

1. Question the appropriateness of coordinating orgasms to facilitate an end to the Iraq War and people accuse you of hating sex and being really bad at it.
2. Question the rather flimsy evidence that supposedly shows Albert Einstein stole the Theory of Relativity from his wife and you are accused of hating all women and maybe even being an active participant against gender equality.
3. Question the newsworthiness of Laura Bush's skin cancer removal and you are accused of thinking Bush is righteous.
4. Offer a supporting argument for two soldiers accused of shooting at innocent civilians without cause and you are accused of supporting the Iraq War and for that matter all of Bush's unconstitutional acts.

Anyway, the list goes on. So, yes, we have our brainless morons around here just like any large group of people. But DU remains a great place to get news not covered by the MSM and read some very sophisticated opinions that you can't get anywhere else. For me, the benefits of staying far outweigh the annoyances.

[sniffa]

40. i'm seriousLy thinking of roLLing my eyes.

[donsu]

53. lol

nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. You came here for what? Applause?

The "center line" that you mention can be found in the adulatory MSM who are eager to make saints of politicians and more than a few bucks televising all the sanctimonious accolades of a 2nd rate president who gave the lie to "all men are equal under the law".

Approximately 30,000 people died last week in the Congo. But, they weren't political bigshots and they won't get state funerals and airports named after them.

[BuyingThyme]

43. You're right about one thing; this place is losing it's independent

edge to the authoritarian Party sheep.

Oh well... See you over at RealisticUnderground.com .

Bye!

:hi:

[pacalo]

44. When it gets to that point, it's an indication that you need to step away.

When you come to expect a large, diverse community to communicate in lock-step to your liking, & if you can't simply pass over the topics & opinions that go against your grain, it's a sign that you're spending too much time here.

Despite the fact that the most evil administration in our lifetime has brought us all together, there's more to discover in life than grieving about it online. Take time for yourself to recharge the positives in life; then you'll have a healthier live-and-let-live attitude about opinions with which you disagree.

[Turbineguy]

45. As someone once told me:

"Don't let these creeps run you off!"

It was in a different context but always true.

[dogday]

46. That is all the more reason to fight the good fight

To post the words to counter attack those post that are filled with anger and hate... It is people like you who care for the cause, that we need... Please reconsider... Know that you are actually helping with every post....

[peacetalksforall]

48. We must always make distinctions and face horrible truths of

our country.

If we don't separate his personality, demeanor, and love of family with his complicit politics we are living with lies.

Should we wait until next week to speak the truth?

When is the time to get educated about stuff that is floating around in our heads all fuzzy and blurred because we weren't born yet or didn't care or believed the media about those events?

Why should we let the lies of criminal acts thirty years ago come to light for our education and then call it bashing?

If Time-Warner, Murdoch, Disney, Viacom, GE/Microsoft can fill these days with lies about him and his manipulators, we can fill these pages with the truth about him.

Honor what might have been decent about his personal life - and think about and get educated about his total involvement in acts that made people disappear from the planet and his complicity in the manipulation of Congress - Timor, obstruction of justice, crimes against the Constitution for going around and hiding from Congress, etc.

The truth hurts. I don't call it bashing.

I won't give in to the lies of Time-Warner, Murdoch, Disney, Viacom, GE/Microsoft. If Pres Carter says nice things, I hope he is speaking about Ford's personality and the personal relationships he had that could be called successes. Perhaps Carter and Ford had some heart to hearts that justify his praise. That's his own business. It's not my business.

We shouldn't make him a hero - because he never publicly apologized for his acts.

Nice guys that participate in acts against the country need to have the truth discussed. This is the best time to discuss because very few of us are going to read a book about him when we are so busy trying to get educated about this decade and what is going to happed to us under the rule of the same people he conspired with or acts that he was complicit in.

(And DU is full of operatives who are poised to pounce with their over 1000 post 'credentials' to appear to dispell truth. How are the operatives identified any more?)

[salin]

50. One would probably be hard pressed to find a DUer

for whom there is not a story or issue to which the general tone of discussions on DU is distressing. For me, the tone threads often start taking when the threads have to do with rape - often are very distressing. Overtime - I realized it doesn't matter what I write on those threads - they are going to drive me batty and drive the blood pressure up. However, for the most part I still appreciate the news, the discussion of news and some of the political and policy talk that evolves on different threads in different forum - so for my own sanity - I skip the threads that I know will bother/distress me. I also chose not to condemn the whole body based on the actions/postings of some.

I am not distressed that a *political board* didn't raise boucoup bucks in less than a week - as the purpose of this board isn't philanthropy. I also recognize that a fundraiser that springs up at the last minute at the end of the year may not be considered when people do their budgets (including giving) earlier in the year. That said - I made a fairly decent sized contribution in honor of a family member, so my conscience is clear - but I can't bring myself to judge others upon their action or inaction on this point. I am fortunate that I am able to do so at this time.

I hear great frustration in your words. I get it - and I have felt it at times as well. However it seems that your frustration has perhaps moved over to words suggesting accusatory judgements that seem to (at least to this reader) generalize onto the greater body rather than just those who exhibit the behavior you describe - given the description of being drowned out - as if the "good people" are the few and the exceptions. I honestly do not think that this is the case. Just that some who are angry - get, shall we say *prolific* in their anger thus inflating the number of angry posts on the issue/story of the day.

[Uncle Joe]

51. In spite of it's shortcomings, D.U. has been good therapy for me

When I first came here, I couldn't for the life of me type anything related to the mass corporate media with out some relation to whore dom such as the word presstitute. Thanks to D.U., I have vented much anger and *today I can call them the mass corporate media without any visible side effects.:)


*This in no way can be construed as a guarantee for future references, only past performance.

[warrens]

54. Keep in mind the troll factor

There are wingnuts here imitating liberals and posting a lot of nonsense so they can point to it later as evidence of "moonbat" thinking. Then, of course, there are some genuine moonbats.

[TlalocW]

56. *Yawn*

Every forum has a person who for whatever reason has to announce that he or she is leaving because that person doesn't like how others are acting, as if being a combination of Miss Manners and the boy who threatens to take his ball and go home would really have any effect.

If you're going to leave, leave. Spare us the theater.

TlalocW

[dogday]

74. I actually find these post the most interesting

because these posts are reflections of this board... I like to know what others are thinking about some of the things I see, but yet never post about.... I agree with some of the things the poster has to say, and I think it is not just me who feels this way.. Interesting....

[TlalocW]

118. Bringing up reflections of the board is fine

It's being an attention-whore by "threatening" to leave that I have problems with. If you're going to leave, leave. Don't make a big productin out of it. If you have a reflection or problem with the board, post it, and if you want something changed, work to change it instead of "threatening" us with your non-presence. One might as well threaten to hold his or her breath until they get their way. To assume that their impending departure of the board is so important it places them up amongst Lieberman in terms of pure ego.

TlalocW

[robcon]

60. Don't threaten to go, just go, Mortos.

Another drama queen or king on DU.

[michaz]

63. Because this person doesn't agree with you?

Grow up! This person has a right to their views and opinions also. Maybe you should be the one to leave!

[troubleinwinter]

73. How odd.

A DUer suggests that another leave DU. Never have seen such a post before.

[michaz]

76. ROFLMAO

[troubleinwinter]

82. You regard that as funny? Why?

Huh. I've seen all manner of rough and tumble posts. The only posts that truly piss me off are "shut up" or "go away". You suggested that a poster with over 1,000 posts leave? WHY? Why should a poster be told to leave? ...by YOU

[michaz]

85. Because

I don't care how many posts that person has had. Anyone can post any amount of posts. They can post anything they want. Doesn't make them intelligent or thoughtful posts. So, I guess the question would be, "Why can that person tell another person to just leave then", just because they say they are considering leaving.

[Judi Lynn]

80. I agree completely. Truly! Just take the plunge, Mortos.

You lose your effectiveness quibbling about it!

[LostinVA]

103. Agreed n/t

[AwakeAtLast]

65. Be the change you want to see in DU

Unless you no longer care to see it change. This is an ever changing site. I have seen it change A LOT in the short time I have been here. I have begun to notice an ebb and flow of information, debate, and comments. Some are great, some are good, and some reek like three day old garbage. If you are a better person from what is available here, stay. If not, it was nice reading your posts!

(I really hope you stay) :hi:

[RedEarth]

67. Great post Steve....... I know exactly what you're saying....

Some of the crap on here becomes a little revolting. Two things, there are assholes on DU, just like in real life. And, you might want to consider hiding threads or putting people on ignore.....I do both.

[leftofthedial]

68. Adios

[alfredo]

70. Take a break, I have had to in the past. As far as raising money

is concerned, many of us are tapped out by Christmas, the 2006 campaigns, and other charities.

In many ways, success is more harmful than failure. Success will test you more than anything else. Look what happened to the Republicans. They could not handle their success. Our nation is suffering because of it.

When I get tired of GD/LBN I go to the Photography, Lounge, state, and computer forums.

[trekbiker]

72. mirror image of RW sites?? like FR?? thats absurd

you are taking DU way too seriously. GD can be a little bruising for overly sensitive folks but the wide diversity of opinion is nowhere near as narrow as the right wing forums.

[Raster]

75. You need a break. You are too sensitive. There's assholes everywhere.

Don't become one. Revisit your views and beliefs. Live to post again.

[Pacifist Patriot]

78. I question the 90,000 plus membership.

Unless there is routine and diligent cleaning of the database, I represent two of those members because I had to change my user name because of a Freeper. I imagine besides duplicates there are probably a fair number who register, show up for awhile and then lose interest. Active membership is realistically a lower number. I think $12,300 is not a bad result for this type of fund raiser on-line at this time of year.

No matter where I go in life and with whom I associate, I eventually have one or more people embarrass me by their words or deeds. Can't imagine I've ever embarrassed someone else by something I said or did. ;)

I find glee in someone's death to be in appallingly low taste, but can understand a desire to call a halt to needless lionizing. I too find the paranoia annoying at times and have rolled an eyeball or two. But beyond that all, this still remains a very good site as a portal to relevant and timely information.

Stay or go as you wish, but I'd rather see a plethora of reasonable compassionate voices prevail.

And Happy New Year! How many more days until we regain the congress? :)

[lukasahero]

84. I hope you'll read this before you go

It comes from someone who often feels the way you do.

Regarding the "sanctioned" fund drive, a lot of people gave personally to other DUers to help them in their time of need:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2941291

Others gave to people they know:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=5972548

And finally, in what I thought was a true outreach of human kindness, please see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2968211&mesg_id=2968211

Don't give up.

[LWolf]

86. Keen observations.

Spending less time, focusing attention elsewhere...

I've pondered this myself. Of course, life has a way of intervening and demanding attention spent away from the 'puter. :shrug: You may want to look for other places to spend the bulk of your cyber time. Still, if everybody goes, that leaves democratic equivalent of free republic to reign supreme, doesn't it?

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[L A Woman]

91. I agree....it was DU that showed me that liberals are NOT more compassionate...

than conservatives. It was probably a rather naive idea in the first place, but I did believe it. But I guess I stay because there are some really good people on here and for the most part we have the same core belief system.

[Jo March]

96. It's not a liberal vs. conservative thing, really

Some people are jerks - regardless of party affiliation. Alert and Ignore are my friends when the assholes come out of the woodwork.

DUers raised $50,000 for another DUer to have surgery for cancer. That is $50,000 for a person many DUers didn't know from Adam.

This year, there was probably $4000 raised via a few threads and many back and forth PMs. Some DUers had a decent Christmas because of other DUers.

DUers have so far raised $12,300 for Second Harvest which is amazing considering how tight things are at this time of year.

Yes, people want to be assholes about all types of things. There was a poster who just annoyed the hell out of me after the stolen election of 2004. I just ignored him. It helped.

DU rocks. Some DUers suck. Does that mean that DU sucks? No. It means that some DUers suck. But to compose a thread bemoaning all of DU (and all DUers by association) because of some assholes? Quite silly and not needed at all.

[ContraBass Black]

108. That's an extremely important lesson to learn.

Losing the illusion that people who share my views are inherently more virtuous made me more aware and effective, and less bigoted.

[LSK]

94. have you considered spending less time in GD

And more time in topic forums?

DU is much more than one forum where people tend to vent from time to time.

Please stay.

[Neshanic]

95. I am sorry that we do not live up to your standards. And where do

you get off scolding people for not raising enough money? Did it occur to you no matter how much money is raised, that come from some people who cannot afford to pay their electric bill on time? Or in my case a person who was about to be evicted on another board I post on, we all got together and gave him money so he could stay in his apartment? I don't have alot of extra money, and that C note that I sent hurt, but the guy was on his last financial legs. How dare you come on and drama it up and do the overall board wide finger wagging to people who in some cases are giving till it hurts.

As far as the Gerald Ford posts, who the Hell cares? He was creepy innefectual unelected turd that gave Cheney and Rumsfeld their starts, and other than being known for playing a good round of golf and being a nice guy, the freepers would not even give this guy the time of day if he was younger and running for something. Yes it's sad that he died, but thats the way things go, and facts are facts.

Take your cross and drag it someplace else if you want, but the people here are good and have the nations best interests in mind, and sometimes it gets rough.

Have a drink, lighten up, and lay off the drama. Then come back.

[bullwinkle428]

98. Knocking the donations seems like a cheap-shot...a bush-league

(no pun intended) thing to do, when so many here have shown themselves to be incredibly generous towards those in need.

[LostinVA]

104. Agreed n/t

[fishwax]

123. Agreed n/t

[smtpgirl]

self-delete

[smtpgirl]

99. Totally agree with you Mortos

I have experienced this kind of behavior here and have just looked at the "posts" that were deemed important, like Brangelina and other minutiae that is trivial.

"There are still good people here, but, as in most cases, their voices are drowned out by the screaming hateful crowd that questions every independent idea, everyone who dares cross that center line." - Mortos


There are only censors here, not democratic thinkers.

[LostinVA]

106. HAHAHHAHAHAHHAA

YOU have to be kidding. No one ever censors your stuff, no matter how over-the-top it is.

[smtpgirl]

110. oh yes they do, had my posts tombstoned & then deleted

you were not able to see it because it wasn't there for long because it wasn't groupthink.


Groupthink describes a decision making process, where the group members go along with what they believe is the consensus. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance. The term is usually used as a derogatory term after the results of a bad decision.

Censorship is the removal of information from the public, or the prevention of circulation of information, where it is desired or felt best by some controlling group or body, that others are not allowed to access the information which is being censored.

[lukasahero]

116. Posts aren't tombstoned - posters are.

Perhaps you mean locked?

My experience is that a bad post gets locked. A REALLY bad post gets deleted. Tells me more about your posting habits than about DU.

[smtpgirl]

119. entitled to your opinion, but the "locked" posts

were a result of groupthink, not being a bad post.

[Midlodemocrat]

126. Maybe they were the result of bad grammar?

Just sayin'. :eyes:


I LOVE when people start posting about groupthink. :eyes:

[smtpgirl]

122. If I decide to leave, just won't log onto this forum anymore.

I would have deemed it a waste of time in my eyes.

I don't need others opinions, well-wishes, or whatever, just won't bother.

[Midlodemocrat]

125. And no matter how incredibly stupid.

:eyes:

Time to don this...:tinfoilhat:

[karlrschneider]

100. Non Illegitimus Carborundum, Steven. I know exactly what you mean.

I well remember your post that resulted in one of if not the longest threads in DU history. Don't forget this: it's far easier to snipe from anonymity than to stand in public. But maybe a break would help - I probably need one as well. :toast:

[Jo March]

105. You should read this post, then

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5989148

Of course, a post thanking DUers gets only 1 response and 34 views but your post... well, I'll say no more.

[Odin2005]

111. I mostly agree with the sentiments in the OP.

People need to quit flaming posters with contrary opinions, there is more then one way to be a Democrat, Democrats vary in ideology from the social-democrat base to libertarians to socially conservative economic populists (like Jon Tester) to socialists.


I am sick of getting flamed every time I:

1. Say Oswald killed JFK
2. Criticize political correctness
3. Attack irrational fear of nuclear energy and genetic engineering
4. State that men accused of rape have a right to a fair trial
5. Say that Iran getting nukes is not a good thing

[smtpgirl]

113. oh conspiracy theories are definitely not welcomed here

For the most part, I am not PC, but I have not been insensitive to others beliefs, some people here criticize because some people here really don't believe in groupthink.

I have flamed people who have flamed me.

[Book Lover]

117. If you think $12K is insubstantial, I would be grateful if you would send that amount my way

How loathsome a statement! Indeed, perhaps your ideas and those of the democrats and Democrats here at DU no longer square.

[Booster]

120. I'm always suspicious of people who start a thread like this and

then don't participate in their own thread. Just sayin'.

[fishwax]

121. I don't understand

-- why you think that 12,000 in about a little over a week is unsubstantial, especially around christmas when many people are (a) already stretched thin and (b) already giving elsewhere?

-- why you think that the negative posts about Gerald Ford define the community

-- why one would think that there wouldn't be any negative posts about Gerald Ford on a liberal message board

-- why you think that, because some people post negative comments that makes DU the mirror image of hateful right-wing partisan demagoguery

-- why one would expect a diverse group of anonymous democrats, progressives, and assorted radicals to form a group that somehow represents your views and beliefs

Probably you just need to take a break. Here's hoping the new year treats you well :toast:

[Missy Vixen]

124. Mortos, I feel your pain

>Maybe I just need a break.<

We were recently without power for a week. I missed DU, but the moment I logged on to an (estimated) 75% of visible posts in GD that day consisting of flamewars on smoking, I was reminded yet again why I don't spend as much time here as I used to. I have also found myself spending more and more time in the Lounge, LBN and smaller forums as a result.

If you decide to take a break, I hope you'll be back. I also remember "My name is Steven Vincent and I am not afraid" as one of the greater posts that have ever graced this website.

Julie
edited to correct my inartful use of the English language

[Moderator]

127. locking

If you have a complaint about the moderators,
please contact the Administrators.


Thank you.