Can we debunk the "Kerry dining alone in mess hall" photo?

[MethuenProgressive]

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/016314.php

A BushWar fan I know is circulting this link to show how much Kerry is hated by the troops. So of course my first thought was since it's from powerline it must be a lie. What's the rest of the story - any other pictures or stories from his recent trip to Iraq?

[Redstone]

1. That's such a FUCKING OBVIOUS Photoshop forgery. Trust me.

Redstone

[Tellurian]

6. Yep, the lighting is way off, compared to the surroundings..

photoshoped, is right!

[Ian_rd]

37. Doesn't look fake to me.

The lighting could appear the way it does because Kerry is getting more of the camera's flash than the people and objects behind him. And you can see that the people and objects in front of him are brighter than he is.

I just think it's far more likely that he's not surrounded by adoring fans because Kerry didn't send in a forward army of PR image-makers to ensure everything was good for the cameras before he arrived like Bush does. And besides, this is one freakin' picture.

[justice1]

39. The clothes don't match the other photos or video taken that day.

At least in the ones that I have seen from different sources, he was wearing a suit, with a white shirt, and red tie.

[Tellurian]

56. Yep, here is a pic

of what he was wearing that day. Even if he removed his jacket
the white shirt and predominately red tie are not a match at all.
The phoshoped version is giving the impression no one wanted to sit
near him at the lunch table. The UK flag hanging in the background
is suspect as well.

[Beaverhausen]

2. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2986183

[John Q. Citizen]

57. Your link is the debunking. Check it out folks. Kerry eating with the troops.

[China_cat]

3. Why would he be leaning forward in a 'listening'

attitude if no one else was there?

[Left Is Write]

42. That was the first thing I thought too.

[xxqqqzme]

4. why is there a British flag on the wall

@ the US embassy?

[Taxloss]

9. And that's a Portuguese flag next to it.

Portugal is a strong US ally and supports efforts in Iraq, which might explain it; but it doesn't actually have any troops in Iraq. I think it committed a tiny number, but has since pulled them out.

[WinstonSmith4740]

5. I tried checking over at snopes.com

They don't have anything on it yet. I'm sure most people will be able to pick this up as a photo shop forgery. Even if they can't, the glowing tribute to Bill O'Reilly should be a dead give-away. Two hours in line to shake his hand? Somehow I doubt it.

[Rosemary2205]

7. A relative was there.

and said the poor man barely had time to eat for soldiers stopping by the table to shake his hand but even so quite a few soldiers made a point of leaving him be only so he could finish his breakfast. And as you can see by the lunch pic there are plenty of soldier around.

BTW the claim that Kerry cancelled a press conference because no one would come is not quite true. The military initially set up the press conference before they checked with Kerry. My relative who would have been in the crew to set up the electronics for the press conference was told IN ADVANCE of Kerry's arrival that it had been cancelled on request of John Kerry because this was intended to be a support the troops visit not a photo op.

[blm]

14. Imagine that - a politician stating support for troops without the followup photo op

The media will find SOME way to spin this against Kerry.

[Island Blue]

16. Thanks for relaying this Rosemary.

It's always nice to hear the "real" story. Thanks again for your post!

[Democrafty]

23. Thanks!

That's really informative, and sounds MUCH more like what would happen to the real, unphotoshopped, John Kerry.

And of course, thanks are due to your relative for serving :)

[calimary]

26. Excellent reality check! Thanks for sharing it!

:thumbsup:

[Parche]

34. constipated conservatives

So what will their next phrase about Kerry be? "He decided on the speaking at the press conference, before he decided against it"????


These right wingers are nothing but lying packs of crap

[flpoljunkie]

46. Thank you for posting this, Rosemary. Everyone ought to read it.

[Diane R]

58. Thank you for that important info. n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. I don't see any Freepers in uniform, do you?

Because they're hiding behind Mommy's skirts back here where it's safe.

[Contrary1]

10. Look what I found in the comments!

The EXIF data in the file shows the photo to be dated from January 9, 2006, although I suppose the camera's date could be off.

Posted by: Anthony on 12/27/2006 9:13 AM

And then:

Anthony,
Good find on the Exif data. Some Googling shows that John Kerry was in London on January 9-10, 2006, which explains the large British flag in the background.

Posted by: Angus on 12/27/2006 9:32 AM

http://areavoices.com/hottalk/?page=comments&blog=5053

[Mabus]

32. Great find

It explains the picture.

[RoyGBiv]

45. I was about to mention that ...

The camera's date could be off, but that's a weird way for it to be off for a photo that was supposedly taken some time between Dec. 25-27, 2006.

Along with the contents of the photo and the known locations where Kerry traveled around the date that is in the meta info, I'm more inclined to believe the date is accurate.

[Roland99]

51. Schwing!!

[globalvillage]

11. RW bullshit.

The British flag on the wall should be a hint. I'll bet money this photo wasn’t taken at a US base, but at a British base in Basrah. And the only uniforms I see in this hall, except for the one directly behind the Senator, are on the waiters.
What a pitiful attempt.

There are photos of Senator Kerry in Iraq with our troops.

[Jax]

12. Thanks for these great shots globalvillage

:thumbsup:

[never cry wolf]

35. Here's another pic from Kerry's site

Not sure which Iraq visit it is from though.

[Hav]

13. .

Yeah, see Post 2 for another thread with other pictures.

There were several empty seats behind him, too, and it seems as if it's just the beginning of the event there.

[Island Blue]

15. The only thing this photo tells us

is that while on his recent trip to the Middle East, Senator Kerry apparently ate at least one meal in a large mess hall. The folks in Freeperville who have been spreading this photo/story seem to have waaay too much time on their hands - perhaps they should consider enlisting.

[TheCowsCameHome]

17. The Freeps have never been any further than the nearest mall

with mommy and daddy's credit cards.

[wryter2000]

18. It says it's in the US Embassy

There's only one person there that I can see in uniform. That clearly isn't a gathering of the troops. If the photo is real (which I doubt based on other replies), it only means that embassy staff weren't sitting with him. So what? They're probably all Bushies.

[WI_DEM]

19. well, he obviously isn't alone. There is somebody directly across from him

and he's leaning his head as if listening to someone else who isn't in the picture.

[globalvillage]

20. Odd that the Portuguese flag is hanging next to the British flag.

Portugal pulled out their troops in Feb 2005.

This is truly an amateur smear job.

[justice1]

21. If a story starts out saying that it's true, it's usually not.

[justgamma]

22. Do our troops usually get

waited on by a dozen waiters dressed in fancy waiter uniforms?

[JI7]

24. HAHHAHAHAHHAH

exactly

[sandnsea]

25. Here's a Baghdad pic

According to the Times.

[MethuenProgressive]

27. Thanks for all the help, DUers!

I was just thinking that if it's this easy to debunk the pro-BushWar anti-American propaganda it must be true that the propagandists know they're lying - and just don't care...

[flyarm]

28. flood this power line with comments ..they have a contact us on their web site

and call them what they are filthy punk liars!!

tell them you have caught them in their lies...just flood their web site!!

fly

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. This Is Silly. There Are Like No Troops Sitting With Anyone Whatsoever.

Totally false premise towards that photo. Not sure what the backstory is, but I do know that you can see only a couple of troops in that picture anyway, so the point is moot.

[k_jerome]

30. what is there to debunk? nt.

[pacalo]

31. Good grief. I'd like to hear one reason why the troops would *hate* John Kerry.

[rockymountaindem]

36. Because he's a French, America-hating limousine liberal

who is friends with Jane Fonda, shot an innocent Vietnamese boy in the back, shot himself to avoid duty, betrayed the legacy of the Vietnam war by protesting against the war, he wants to negotiate with Bin Laden, and thinks the troops are stupid.

For anyone who needs to know, this is :sarcasm: times a million, but sadly these are the kinds of lies that extreme right wingers believe about Kerry. Unfortunately, I'm sure that includes some of our troops in Iraq, especially since the only cable news network they get on military outposts is Fox News, and until recently only Limbaugh and his ilk were the only voices on armed forces radio.

Fortunately, they only way they can try to deny the fact that most soldiers *like* Kerry, or at least like him enough to shake his hand and greet him with apparent enthusiasm, is with poor photoshops like this.

[pacalo]

44. What the hell was I thinking when I held them to our standards.

You know, we never did find out how the troops voted in the 2004 election. Not a peep about it. This administration would have made sure we had heard about the results if they favored Bush, right?

[rockymountaindem]

47. Yeah, I think so n.t.

[New Earth]

33. did you see this post here on DU?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2986183&mesg_id=2986183

[Career Prole]

38. Give it another week...they'll have Jane Fonda photoshopped in

at the table as well.

[Contrary1]

40. I find it hilarious

that the Freeps are still so afraid of John Kerry that they resort to this.
Reveals so much about them...whether the pic is fake or not.

[AnnInLa]

41. The photo HAS been debunked at TPMmuckraker

Now, Michelle Malkin, Powerline and a guy named Scott Hennen, host of "HotTalk" on North Dakota's AM 970, bring us news that troops in Iraq recently shunned Sen. John Kerry (D-MA), making him eat alone at an inexplicably festive breakfast at the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, as some kind of petulant junior-high form of retaliation for his botched "joke" that dumb kids get sent to war.

snip

At Hennen's site, commenter "Anthony" noted that the picture's embedded data, just a right-click away, shows the picture was taken on January 9, 2006 -- several months before Kerry botched his joke:

News accounts at the time put Kerry in England around that time -- which might explain the giant Union Jack hanging on the far wall.

At PowerLine, another problem surfaced: As commenter "Angus" noted, the flag hanging to the right of the Union Jack belongs to Portugal, which withdrew its mighty 120-man coalition force from Iraq nearly two years ago.

Update: There may be reason to question the image data. In addition to giving the date of Jan. 9th for the picture, it says it was taken by a Vivitar Vivicam 8400 camera. According to this article dated Feb. 27, that model was not yet released. Can anyone verify this?

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002245.php

[beachmom]

43. Right winger on Powerline debunks story

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/28/113944/82

This article is half the truth. My friend told me more details and was there.

Kerry apparently showed up during the last 10 minutes of when the chow hall was open. So there were not so many people there to begin with. Additionallly he had a crowd of security surrounding him and I dont believe his intentions in that chow hall were to greet the troops based upon the real facts. Additionally the military folks in the mess hall would not have felt comfortable approaching him in these surroundings. That doesn’t necessarily paint the picture in the article.

Finally - this is typical treatment for famous people there.

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t like his politics but this isn’t factual reporting according to my sources (which are my friends not second hand spew from reporters making money).



I put this on the other DU thread, but I'm not sure which one people are reading more. This is important, because between his and Rosemary's story (which have much in common), this RW story will have no legs.

[Rosemary2205]

49. UPDATE -- IMPORTANT INFO

My nephew has finally seen this pic and said it is not from breakfast on Kerry's Dec trip to Basrah airbase. That was not in any chow hall he's been in. He does not know where it is. The lunch pic posted by sabra here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2986183 is Basrah this past December.

However, he did say most soldiers make it a point to leave visiting dignitaries alone during meals so they can eat in peace. However, some soldiers still will stop and talk to visitors if they have something important they want to say and for whatever reason are not able to access that person during the "meet and greet" sessions.

[One_Life_To_Give]

48. Like him or not DOD will kiss his

Before any member of Congress gets near the troops. The officers that he will be principally meeting with have been briefed. The "Sargent these are the points we would like you to get across" bit. They know what any congressperson can do to their appropriations. DOD is not in the habit of biting the hand that feeds it.

Without any context who cares if a couple seats are empty. Maybe he just sat down and tohers are still making their way to the table?

[Dr Ron]

50. How George Buswh would have handled this

There are a number of theories going around about this picture which I note at this post. More importantly, I show how George Bush would have handled this problem:

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=816

[Conscious Confucius]

52. The whole room is half empty, not just his table.

The picture was obviously taken to show the three empty seats at his table, I bet the rest of the table wasn't empty. He could have just sat down, we don't know, so we cannot make false assumptions. It's all nonsense. Thousands of men are dying in Iraq, yet John Kerry is an evil man. Bogus!

[liberalpragmatist]

53. It's not true - debunked here on the blog Political Animal

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_12/010477.php

December 28, 2006
Guest: Steve Benen


IS THE KERRY PIC LEGIT?.... Several of the right's major blogs were all aflutter yesterday over a picture of John Kerry, in Iraq a couple of weeks ago, apparently sitting alone at a mess hall. The picture, as the story went, proves that Kerry's "botched joke" has caused lingering resentment among men and women in uniform. If the troops respected Kerry, he wouldn't have been sitting by himself at the breakfast shown in the photo.

The picture, and the accompanying narrative about how the troops avoided Kerry, made the rounds by way of far-right radio-host Scott Hennen, who claims the "priceless story" was sent by "a friend of mine serving in Iraq." (If Hennen's name sounds familiar, it's because he has an interesting history with the White House.)

The problem, however, is that the "priceless story" may not be true. Justin Rood explains.

At Hennen's site, commenter "Anthony" noted that the picture's embedded data, just a right-click away, shows the picture was taken on January 9, 2006 -- several months before Kerry botched his joke....

News accounts at the time put Kerry in England around that time -- which might explain the giant Union Jack hanging on the far wall.

At PowerLine, another problem surfaced: As commenter "Angus" noted, the flag hanging to the right of the Union Jack belongs to Portugal, which withdrew its mighty 120-man coalition force from Iraq nearly two years ago.

Between Cliff May's email yesterday, and the questionable pic of Kerry today, conservatives aren't having any luck at all lately, are they?

[Bjorn Against]

54. It may not be photoshopped, but either way it does not tell us anything...

So there are a few empty seats next to John Kerry, so what? What evidence does Powerline have that those seats were not reserved for someone else? You can not generally just walk up and grab a seat next to a powerful Senator and former Presidential candidate. Plus there is obviously at least one other person in that photo talking to Kerry, and the majority of people in that room do not look like troops at all.

To suggest all the troops love Bill O'Reilly and all the troops hate John Kerry is just absurd. The reality is that both of them have their fans and their detractors, not all the troops think alike by any means.

I challenge the people at Powerline to point out one thing in that photo that suggests the troops hate John Kerry. A few empty chairs is not evidence, unless they can prove why those chairs are empty. Also I would like them to show me evidence that most of the people in that room are in fact troops.

For a website that built its name on analyzing typewriter fonts it sure seems that they could use some more critical thinking on the material they post.

I don't think it was photoshopped, I just think it is completely irrelevent.

[mloutre]

55. an interesting angle to this propaganda-propagation campaign...

It seems well worth noting that “Ben of Mesopotamia” — aka Benjamin Runkle — one of the RW bloggers who first really pushed hard on this non-story about the photo in question, is a self-described communications specialist (which means, in some quarters, ‘propaganda specialist’) who has worked for the DOD, the NSC, and according to his blog’s ‘About Me’ blurb is a “Harvard PhD and Presidential speechwriter called back to Active Duty for Operation Iraqi Freedom.”

Is this another example of BushCo’s proven policy of planting propaganda mouthpieces into supposedly non-partisan bailiwicks so that they can churn out pro-administration spin and misinformation? Could this be another sock-puppet soldier embedded with the troops so that he can influence them on the ground and feed back pre-canned points to the folks at home?

I’m not saying that he’s just another paid BushCo spokespuppet hiding behind a blogname, because I don’t have access to enough facts to prove or disprove that. But given the little bit of facts that are available to us on this end, especially coupled with this administration’s known history of using plants and fake pundits to feed false information to the public, it certainly seems to me like this is something that bears further investigation by those with more access to the details.

[mloutre]

59. Here's the Real Deal on that pesky photo, straight from one who was there

(These remarks are from Frank Lowenstein -- Frank accompanied Sen. Kerry to the Middle East, serves on Sen. Kerry’s Senate staff, and is a longtime Kerry national security advisor. Full text is at the link below...)

http://blog.johnkerry.com/2006/12/setting_the_record_straight_fr.html

It’s a weird feeling seeing this photo of Sen. Kerry debated and decoded like some artifact out of the DaVinci Codes. It’s strange to me because I was there when the photo was taken. I traveled with Sen. Kerry throughout his Middle East trip. I’m his foreign policy staffer. Myself and Major McKnight were sitting right there when this photo was snapped.

Snubbed? Alone? Hardly. Sen. Kerry isn’t eating alone. In fact that photo is at an off the record breakfast meeting Senator Kerry conducted early Sunday morning with the very real Marc Santora of the New York Times Baghdad bureau and his younger colleague from the newspaper.

The man shown in the green shirt across from Sen. Kerry is Marc Santora. Right after that interview was completed, Senator Kerry videotaped a message expressing his and the country's support for the troops, to be shown on the armed services network in Iraq. Just the night before, Sen. Kerry was in that very same mess hall at a table where he ate dinner with about 10 U.S. soldiers.

{snip}