More than 1 million New Yorkers ask: food or rent?

[ckramer]

Food or rent? That is the daily choice faced by about 1.2 million of New York's 8.2 million people.

Faced with that choice, mostly they pay rent and rely on emergency or charity food to survive, poverty activists say.

"It's a struggle," said 53-year-old Pierre Simmons, who has a part-time job, as he wrapped up a bagel from his soup kitchen lunch for later. "I have a job, but the cost of living is so high it makes it hard to buy food."

Hunger is not unique to New York. More than 12 million U.S. households -- or 35 million Americans -- struggled with hunger in 2005, according to the U.S. government.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061226/us_nm/usa_poverty_newyork_dc

[YOY]

1. Um...time to leave New York?

That's why I wouldn't live there. Too freaking expensive...or maybe the powers that be just trying to throw out who they deam to be 'undesirable'...

[acmavm]

4. Where should they go? Life long New Yorkers should just

pack up and leave because of the greedy bastards that own apartments and tenements?

What the fuck is wrong with everybody? When did the main goal of life become being rich on the backs of the poor? And when in the living Hell did it become respectable?

[YOY]

8. My Grandparents did it

I assure you, there is civilization beyond New Jersey.

New York has always been about business. Business is generally about making money off of someone else's back. It's never been not 'respectable' to the point where it stops alltogether (save socialist revolutions...they usually make someone else the profiteer instead of freeing the worker though...)

Regarding the land owners being greedy: I don't like it any more than you, but until someone can step in and stop them, it will continue to happen. Frankly with real estate costs in NYC, unless one is a long-time owner, they would still HAVE to charge insane amounts just to make some form of profit.

[The2ndWheel]

10. Worked for the indigenous people way back

"Where should they go? Life long New Yorkers should just pack up and leave because of the greedy bastards that own apartments and tenements?"

Wait...no it didn't. Same idea though. The people who won that fight then, will win today as long as we keep doing exactly what we've been doing since then.

"When did the main goal of life become being rich on the backs of the poor?"

The invention of agriculture. It creates class, which then allows what we see today.

"And when in the living Hell did it become respectable?"

After the first person to resist was eradicated for standing in the way. That's my guess anyway.

[acmavm]

20. Well it's time to quit folding at the first sign of trouble and to

start fighting back.

[bobbolink]

81. "Time to start fighting back" AMEN to THAT!!

I'm tired of homeless people quietly dying one by one.

I'm tired of good, poor people trying to be more good by "sucking it up"

I'm tired of poor people taking it on the chin over and over and over!

As I said to one pastor, the reason why you haven't done anything about homelessness is because you don't have to. Homeless people aren't disrupting your daily lives.

We aren't nailing our 95 complaints to your church doors.

Unless/until we start coming together as poor folk, and raising some hell, NOTHING WILL CHANGE!

[babylonsister]

43. My parents left NY many years ago because it was getting too

expensive. Most people try to live within their means, and they couldn't.

As for the crack about leaving NY, I know there are cheaper places with 'better' weather; I live in one.

[TomClash]

12. And go where?

Iraq?

[YOY]

14. Once again: There exists life beyond New Jersey

I have seen it! I assure you it exists!

It may not have Les Miz, but it is there!

[cdnwannabe]

23. Seems to me you have to be able to save money to move....

which can't be easy if you already have to choose between food or rent. As for the Les Miz crack, what makes you think these people can afford to see Les Miz??

[YOY]

39. Just the New Yorker mentality that there is only one bastion of civilization

Don't be an ass about it. I well understand the seriousness of poverty.
Got a buddy with a truck? Got 30$ to pay him for gas?

Can you rent a Uhaul for 100 Bucks? You can move? If you can afford NY rent, you can affort to move.

Moving is not that expensive. Not that they should have to.

Do you really think I expect anyone to see Le Miz? Seek conflict elsewhere...

[Tsiyu]

44. All you need is $130 to MOVE- WHO KNEW??????

You must live in some country I never heard of.

In America, where I live, you can't move until you

A) Find a place to move, pay first and last months' deposits ($1000 or more)

B) Locate utility companies, pay deposit for services ($100+)

C) Get all new ID, driver's license, tags for vehicles ($?)


If you can't afford to buy food, it may be a bit tough to afford the above for a while. Maybe these people should live on the streets? I don't know what you're trying to say here, but I'll just tell you, to me you sound like a person without a real grasp of the reality of the working poor.

So now tell me a story of your impoverished childhood, or whatever, but please realize you live in some dream world if you think you can relocate with $130.

You did make me LMAO, however. I always get a kick out of deluded, cold-hearted folks. Go figure...

[YOY]

46. Deluded and Cold Hearted?

That's the first time I've heard of that. Sorry, but not by a longshot. Perhaps you did not read my post in full insofar as that I really do feel for them. I just don't understand why anyone would WANT to live in New York...especially at the rediculous cost of living! Would I love to see that COL go down? Hell yes I would! Do I think relocation would be easy? Not incredibly, but given the choice, I'd get the heck out!

I've relocated with less than 130 bucks. I guess I'm some kind of special case.

I've never had to pay a deposit for untilities. Never even heard of such a thing.

I take public transportation. I suppose a new ID cost me around 50 bucks?

and if you move to the right place, you might get rent and a down payment (consider next month's payment at your current place to be your down payment) for 500$ or less providing that you are living in a more affordable area.

It can be done.

[Tsiyu]

55. If you never paid a deposit for utilities, you are fortunate

and probably have stellar credit.

Most working poor do not have good credit, and as a person with less than stellar credit, I can assure you, I have had to pay a deposit for utilities.

And if you have grown up in a place, have your family and friends there, I can understand why you would want to live in NYC.

Are we saying that our big cities are not places where we want to provide for the working poor? Are we saying here that only the wealthy can live in certain places? Everybody else just move the hell out? Kind of like what they're doing in NOLA?

That sounds pretty cold-hearted to me.

[YOY]

56. Shitty credit actually. Running around on no money trying to save the world will do that to you.

I've never heard of paying a deposit for utilities and I've lived in several states (and more than a few countries). Sounds like NYC has such a system. Sound like a shitty system designed to shaft the poor to boot.

Part of me wants to think that if the working poor up and left because they couldn't afford to live there, there would be more room for those who remained to negotiate for better wages. Reality tells me that the powers that be would prevent that increase from ever happening. What would the rich do without the working poor? I'd like to see that Twilight Zone episode...

I've got most of my family and friends in a rather declining part of Ohio. I left. It was not easy, but my wife and I did it. It was that or stick around and work retail with a Master's degree. Sometimes you have to leave for a better life. That's just how it is.

Should cities do what it takes to keep folks above water. Hell yes IMHO. Should someone leave a negative situation if they can. Of course. Can many people not afford to do this because of disability, children, or old age. Yes! Those are the ones who need help most!

Honestly, NOLA had a disaster hit it. New York City is just ridiculously expensive. That's not a fair comparison.

[dsc]

84. With the exception of Ohio

I have had to pay a deposit on all my utilities. In Ohio I needed a phone deposit and water just not electricity. Deposits are the norm, not the exception.

[YOY]

91. Didn't pay in AZ...nor in VA

Perhaps I have simply been lucky...

[dsc]

95. credit has some to do with it I am sure

Mine isn't so hot but I also think regulations have something to do with it as well.

[DocSavage]

48. Living in NY City working part time

is a perscription for failure. Unless you are a student living in the dorm, I do not think it can be done. Why can't a person re-locate for 130 bucks. Especially if they are trying to survive on a part time job. Can't have much furniture, no big screen to move. What is the problem with going to penn station and getting on a grey hound to Omaha or Tulsa. Oh, looking it up on Greyhound.com, it cost 181 to tulsa one way. Lots of jobs roughnecking, 50-60K a year. Rent is cheap, gas is cheap, food is cheap.

[YOY]

52. Hush!

You're bursting their self-rightous bubbles!

[Tsiyu]

53. That easy, huh?

And if you have kids?

Or you're disabled?

Or you are barely scraping by, living paycheck to paycheck? How the hell do you find that extra cash?

This whole subthread reminds me of the folks who couldn't figure out why the poor of NOLA didn't just "leave" before Katrina.

Sad, is what it is.

[DocSavage]

62. If you

have kids, disabled and trying to live on pay from a part time job in one of the most expensive cities in the world, crossing the street is probable difficult for you. NYC is a liberal mecca. How can there be anyone there living in these conditions? Yeah, there are the few that are disabled, going thru some hard times, bur for the story to state a million, I am going to go out on a limb and say many could make the changes required to alleviate this situation. And here is a news flash. I make a choice every month about food and rent. I can eat steak and lobster every day or pay my mortage. I side with the mortgage and downgrade the food.

Why doesn't someone bring up the fact that people make bad choices, and refuse to live with that choice. I have made bad choices in the past. relised it, changed it, learned from it. I am sure you have also.

[Tsiyu]

69. Bad choices are made by people but they are also

made for people- by their governments, their employers, their landlords.

I live in a rural setting, and have set myself up so I have no mortgage or rent. And I still struggle. Many tell me to "just move" - to a BIG CITY. Can't win for losing in that Easy Answer game.

Wages have not kept up with inflation for ANYONE except the CEOs. Transportation, food costs and heating costs have increased and in some cases doubled over the past six years. Health care costs have also skyrocketed. I, personally, feel that blaming working Americans for these conditions is like a sickness or a blindness.

What you are seeing in the cities is just a taste of what you will see all over this country soon. The cities show these trends sooner because it is easier to track these trends in a densely populated area. But the shit is hitting the fan all over the US, and pretty soon it will be suburbanites wondering how they will eat. I'll bet that many already do wonder how to pay the mortgage and still feed the kids. Where will you tell them to move?

WE are living in a nation that is destroying its middle class, its safety nets, and it really galls me to hear people spout some simplistic answer to those who are suffering.

[Stephanie]

78. well said

thanks

[DocSavage]

80. Not sure where you live

but I live in a rural area, 20 miles outside of wichita. My pay has exceeded inflation this year, many of the workers at Spirit aerospace got 40K in bonuses this christmas, Boeing is doing great, the town is awash in money and jobs.

There are training programs at all of the large companies, they pay top wages for good people. Yeah there are mediocre jobs, but the people that fill them still make 9-12 bucks an hour starting.

[Stephanie]

45. Les Miz is for TOURISTS, like you. New Yorkers have other interests.

And in reference to your post above, that NYC is just about business, get a grip. New York has always been a cultural center, a haven for artists, a destination for immigrants, a city of creative, entrepreneurial hard-working people. To suggest that New Yorkers hang out here only to do business and watch Les Miz is ridiculously ignorant.

My elderely neighbor worked her whole life in the fashion industry. Now she lives on social security in a rent controlled apartment. She probably pays around $600. On Christmas day I saw her wheeling her little shopping cart around the neighborhood, collecting nickel-deposit bottles out of the trash. It's hard to live here but moving is not an option for many, and to suggest it is the answer is to completely miss the point of the post.

And you seem to be under the impression that New York is in New Jersey. WTF?

[YOY]

51. No. Never seen and never will. Never been a tourist. I have been a visitor for other purposes.

Nice try sunshine! and your know-it-all attitude toward any out-of-towner that they are 'yokels' and 'tourists' show exactly why most of the country can't stand the majority of them. (If you think I'm being exclusive and provincial in my attitude, I find that Parisians and Muscovites have the same obnoxious attitude.) That wonderful attitude is also why the Pubs have done so well in painting New York and left wing politics as bad.

Cultural Center? Yeah, if you can afford it. How much does a ticket cost to the American Museum of Natural History? Tickets to the Met? Hell, How much do Giant's Tickets cost??? Come to DC. See a real museum. Compare the cost.

As for New York/New Jersey thing. I'm well aware of the difference between the two. Most New Yorkers that I have met seem to have some underlying belief that beyond New Jersey (AS IN THE CRAPPY PART OF NEW JERSEY ACROSS THE FREAKING HUDSON RIVER THAT IS NOT NYC BUT HOBOKEN, NEWARK ETC...) there lies no civilization, culture, or educated competent individuals. (Hell, most people see New Jersey as lacking any readeaming qualities as is...) Now do you understand what I am saying?

Sorry to hear about your neighbor. She obviously cannot move. The situation needs to be remedied for folks like her. This I understand and agree with.

[Stephanie]

57. I don't think you're exclusive and provincial. I think you're intellectually challenged.

And if you believe Manhattan should be reserved exclusively for the rich, like Monaco, then you are no Democrat. Even if you are a Republican, where do you think the rich are going to find servants once the working poor are banished from the city? And why do so many tourists presume to be experts on New York after spending a few days here? Jealous, I guess.

[YOY]

59. For the wealthy alone? Did I ever say that?

No.

Nice try.

Republican? Not at all. Nice attempted insult on words placed in my mouth. You really should read the whole damn post. I especially like the attempted placement of expecting 'working poor to be banished from the city' when I understand the plight of many, but others simply need to get out of the city.

Intellectually challenged. First time I've heard that. Especially from a someone who obviously never read when I said that I've never been a tourist there. Jesus, it was in the header of my last post! I'm pretty sure your the one who is 'intellectually challenged' if you can't read the header.

I've lived in several states and several countries. I've been exposed to more culture (high and low) than most people could fathom. I speak more languages than the average BeNeLux citizen. Intellectually challenged...what a laugh.

I did have a two month contract in NYC (work.) Hardly an expert, but definitely enough time and experience living/working there and elsewhere to realize there are better places.

Jealous...of a overcrowded over hyped city? Try unimpressed. Have you ever lived anywhere else?

[Stephanie]

61. Your position so far: Get out of NYC if you can't afford it, and anyway the place stinks.

Confronted with the problem of poverty in New York City, your answer is to denigrate the city, and everyone who lives here. Nice! Are you sure you're not a Republican? You spell like one.


You posted:

Um...time to leave New York?
That's why I wouldn't live there. Too freaking expensive...or maybe the powers that be just trying to throw out who they deam to be 'undesirable'...
_____________

I just don't understand why anyone would WANT to live in New York...especially at the rediculous cost of living!
_____________

Part of me wants to think that if the working poor up and left because they couldn't afford to live there, there would be more room for those who remained to negotiate for better wages.

[YOY]

64. Amazing...

Ribs and jibs. The spelling comment is adorable. I speak several languages sunshine, and I can't really spell impeccable in any of them, although I generally try not to keep it monosyllabic. Call it a personal flaw. Keep the "you might be a Republican BS" coming. You're getting so wrapped up in insults you are losing any and all civility this discussion started with.

Apparently I should explain things a little more in depth as to everything you are not only cherry picking, but blowing out of goddamn context into what you believe is my wish to 'denigrate the city.'

"Too freaking expensive...or maybe the powers that be just trying to throw out who they deem to be 'undesirable'...": Not my opinion as for what should be done, but moreover what appears to be happening. Could it be that I see laws being twisted to work against the working poor and disagree with them??? PERHAPS???

I just don't understand why anyone would WANT to live in New York...especially at the ridiculous cost of living!:
Yes, because it's a shithole. The last time I was in the Subway, I counted three separate body fluid sitings. Why would anyone pay to live there is beyond me. So yeah, the place stinks and you have to pay through the ass just to live there. I take the Metro in DC every damn day. It's clean, punks don't cut up the seats, and outside the occasional mouse crawling in the tube (and those leaving Congress), rodent free. I have some friends from New York, but the city itself bites wind.

Once again. HAVE YOU EVER LIVED ANYWHERE ELSE?

"Part of me wants to think that if the working poor up and left because they couldn't afford to live there, there would be more room for those who remained to negotiate for better wages.":
I was philosophizing on an impossible hypothetical situation THAT I KNOW ISN'T WORKABLE or would have a LIKELY POSITIVE OUTCOME. Although it goes with the theory of supply/demand, the working poor will get shafted no matter how hard they try unless something is done to protect them. Duhhh.

I like how you didn't include the whole paragraph when quoting me thereby increasing the ability of anyone reading your cherry-picked comments out of context to completely misinterpret what I said before.. You really should work for Fox News.

[Stephanie]

74. You likely DO work for Fox News - that would explain your attitude toward NYC, and poor people.

And I should quote whole paragraphs of your dreck? When it's all conveniently posted right here in this thread? And when each post is even more offensive than the previous? Now New York is a "shithole?" Gosh, that's a mature and rational argument, and certainly not derogatory. And oh yes, DC is a marvelous place to live. If you're not poor and black. I'm guessing you're neither. You needn't bother answering, I've had enough of you, I won't reply.

[YOY]

92. Fine don't

You only seem capable of insults.

[Missy Vixen]

70. Just throwing this one out there

>show exactly why most of the country can't stand the majority of them<

I'm a Seattle native. I'd be thrilled to treat Stephanie to a cup of coffee if and when I'm lucky enough to visit New York City. I've been reading her posts for a long time now. She's funny, she's real, and she's someone I'd love to meet.

In the meantime, I might mention that an overwhelming percentage of our friends are New York City/New Jersey transplants. We're thrilled to know them. They're great people who've gone out of their way to befriend us. Your insistence of how "most of the country can't stand the majority of them" evidently doesn't hold water in the Seattle area.

Julie

[YOY]

71. The only thing I've seen of her is accusations of me being a pub

Sorry, but I'm afraid she's buying her own cup. I'm sure she's fun, but I don't like being taken out of context, intellectually insulted, and then accused of being a republican.

I've been on a couple assignments made worse by some loud mouthed New York know-it-all ethnocentrics and one vacation where several New Yorkers I was with ruined it. Sorry. Maybe it was the yokel treatment when they heard my midwesterner accent.

I have a couple of close friends from NYC. They know I can't stand the place, but don't accuse me of being a freeper.

[Stephanie]

77. You insult all of New York City, you continue to do it in every post ...

What you are is a bigot. And if you haven't read my posts here I guess you haven't been around DU very long. Check my journal. I've been absent from DU for a good part of this year because I was working on a campaign 24/7. Anyway I wonder how you'd like to read the post above in reference to YOUR town? You're quite rude. How does this feel:

"I've been on a couple assignments made worse by some loud mouthed New York know-it-all ethnocentrics dumb-assed Mid-western know-nothing yokels and one vacation where several New Yorkers Southerners I was with ruined it. Sorry. Maybe it was the yokel treatment bigotry when they heard my midwesterner New Yorkaccent."

[YOY]

90. Bigot No. Someone who doesn't care for a high faluting attitude yes

as well as someone who doesn't like the city of New York very much.

After the tourist comment twice and numerous comments that I am a Republican, especially after I pointed out that I am not is only going to make me angrier.

Granted I was in a pisser of a mood yesterday and I did get really angry at everyone and everything I do apologize for that.

A bigot. No I am not. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

And I was not making things up when my past vacation and work assignments were made worse by some people from New York. Do I think all New Yorkers are rude...no, One of my best friends is from Queens and he know I can't stand the place. None-the-less, it certainly seems a large amount of New Yorkers carry the negative stereotype.

[Missy Vixen]

85. DH was in New York City a total of ten weeks this year

visiting clients on business. He's been all over the country -- he travels 50% of the time, and I hear about it when he goes anywhere that he doesn't care for. I heard nothing but positives from him about New York City, the people, the amazing cultural and tourist opportunities, and the food. He loved it so much, he wants to go back and bring me, so I can see it, too. I can't wait.

>I don't like being taken out of context, intellectually insulted, and then accused of being a republican.<

Then don't do it to others. ("sunshine"? Was that meant to be as demeaning and patronizing as possible?)

>I've been on a couple assignments made worse by some loud mouthed New York know-it-all ethnocentrics<

Again, my husband had nothing but positive things to say about those he met and worked with. Loud mouth know-it-alls are in all areas of the country and around the world. My husband's currently most annoying client lives in Toronto. Do I think it's a bad place? No. I just think the guy he's working with is a class-A jerk.

I'm surprised at your insistence that Washington, DC is affordable. When we visited DC, we were fairly stunned at the cost of living. We also live in an area (Western Washington, suburbs of Seattle,) that is in no way cheap, either. We love San Francisco, but I think their cost of living has to rival New York City's.

Julie

[Stephanie]

75. I would love to meet you for coffee, Julie.

I've met many DU'ers in the past few years and made many dear friends at this site. I have no reluctance to meet anyone from DU. Well, almost anyone.

xx
Stef

[Critters2]

37. Yeah, those are your only choices....

New York or Iraq. :eyes:


This is why I left the East Coast.

[Xenotime]

66. Texas.

[LSK]

73. lets see

Alabama

Alaska

Arizona

Arkansas

California

Colorado

Connecticut

Delaware

District of Columbia

Florida

Georgia

Hawaii

Idaho

Illinois

Indiana

Iowa

Kansas

Kentucky

Louisiana

Maine

Maryland

Massachusetts

Michigan

Minnesota

Mississippi

Missouri

Montana

Nebraska

Nevada

New Hampshire

New Jersey

New Mexico

North Carolina

North Dakota

Ohio

Oklahoma

Oregon

Pennsylvania

Rhode Island

South Carolina

South Dakota

Tennessee

Texas

Utah

Vermont

Virginia

Washington

West Virginia

Wisconsin

Wyoming

[ThomCat]

41. How?

When you relocate to a place were you don't know anyone it's very time consuming and difficult to find a good place to live and find a new job. You don't have any local experience or references.

If you're coming from NYC you might not have a car or even a driver's license.

Moving is expensive. Moving a great distance is even more expensive. If you're already having trouble paying bills then how do you afford the move?

Ultimately, if any city is going to survive then people have to be able to afford to live there. Not just the corporate execs and the celebrities. The cooks and janitors and administrative assistants, and cashiers, and all the support staff that keep every business alive in that city have to be able to live there too. New York City is no exception.

The solution isn't to tell everyone that they should leave. The solution is to pop the real estate bubble, put progressive policies in place whereever possible, and promote the types of local investments that help everyone. New York City has done it in the past with some degrees of success. It can be done again.

[Hissyspit]

42. People's lives are much more complicated than that. Some people

don't know any other life, some people are too connected and dependent on relatives, some people have health problems that limit their options. There are lots of reasons people feel constricted in their options.

[YOY]

54. and they are the ones who need help!

No denying that! I not only feel for them, I agree wholeheartedly with you!

Now, if you don't have kids, aren't elderly or disabled and are barely making it. Time to leave.

[AZBlue]

83. Read the OP again. Hunger and poverty aren't found only in NY.

"Hunger is not unique to New York. More than 12 million U.S. households -- or 35 million Americans -- struggled with hunger in 2005, according to the U.S. government."

[devilgrrl]

88. I keep forgetting that picking up and moving costs NOTHING!

:sarcasm::eyes::sarcasm::eyes:

I so knew there would be those "Well, if you can't afford it - Move!" posts.

Yep, it's THAT easy. :sarcasm:

[HughBeaumont]

2. While America's corptocracy stockpiles their Everestian wealth unnecessarily . . .

Workers toil longer than ever, take less vacation and have little to no job security. Degrees mean crapola if everyone is getting them just to remain employable. 46 million Americans have no health care and that number is destined to climb. Corporate America is a miserable hellhole to work in, often with jail-gray cube walls and a boss who's as intrusive as he is annoying. Wages have been barely above stagnant since 1970, minimum wage is at a standstill when you factor inflation, and for the first time in my state's history, a person making minimum wage cannot afford a one-bedroom apartment ANYwhere in the state.

America is a prison to many, not just the incarcerated.

[saigon68]

3. Guys like Pierce Bush feel their pain

[HughBeaumont]

5. That's not exactly "pain" he's feeling . . .

The comfort of it all is that this sack of ass will never be our president. The simian killed it for ALL Bewshes eternally. I would like to think Americans are collectively smart enough not to ever let another one slide on in.

Then again, I recall saying this same thing around 2000 . . .

[ikojo]

38. PIerce Bush could be pres one day....It never entered

my mind that Americans would elect ANOTHER Bush so soon after the debacle that was Poppy Bush.

Give it several decades and yeah, I can see Pierce being propped up as a pug or even Democratic candidate, given how far to the right the party could be in a couple of decades.

[Hawkeye-X]

7. I didn't need to see that.

Thanks alot!

*runs off and burns his eye*

[Joe Bacon]

47. Hey Pierce, when are YOU signing up to go to Iraq?

If uncle Peter Pan is so right, when are you going? When Is George P going with you???

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. Doesn't NYC have rent control laws?

:shrug:

[DumpDavisHogg]

9. I thought that p.o.s. Giuliani got rid of rent control

But there has to be either some regulation or some better assistance.

The reason we have such a problem now is because the Rethugs don't want the problem fixed.

[KamaAina]

11. The scum have found ways around it

Mom and Repuke Stepdad are dealing with this on an ongoing basis. Fortunately, R.S. can afford it. The two major scams are: "major capital improvements", in which the building owners put in new heating or elevators or something and then use that as a legal excuse to jack up rents; and "vacancy decontrol", actually a Pataki rather than Giuliani innovation in which tenants enjoy rent control so long as they stay in one place, but the rent is jacked up to the stratosphere the second they leave. Needless to say, this gives landlords an incentive to get rid of their mrent-controlled tenants by any means necessary: constant construction, lack of basic services such as heat, and the like. My own personal favorite was the guy who wouldn't turn on the gas for the stove, telling me to call Con Ed -- which I did, only to have them tell me that it was ready to be turned on!

[hack89]

26. Just ask Kofi Annan

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_485452.html

[bicentennial_baby]

27. Bullshit RW piece, imho

:eyes:

[hack89]

28. In other words, you can't dispute the facts. nt

[bicentennial_baby]

31. Um, no...

But, you can keep believing BS if it helps you sleep at night. I wouldn't believe a damn thing any editorial in the goddamn Scaife funded Pittsburgh Trib-Review says...plus, bringing up the "sex" scandals and oil for food crap is just another backhanded bullshit RW ploy to slam Kofi...

[hack89]

34. Have you googled the topic?

try it. There seems to no question that he lived in rent control housing for 18 years - when he moved into a UN provided apartment he gave the old one to his brother, the ambassador from Ghana.

[KamaAina]

29. In a bullshit RW paper funded by none other than Richard Mellon Scaife

of Arkansas Project fame, or at least notoriety. The legitimate Pgh. paper is the Post-Gazette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Tribune-Review

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Greensburg Tribune-Review and affiliated dailies claim a Sunday circulation of 221,000 readers. They are published by the Tribune Review Publishing Company, which was purchased by Richard Mellon Scaife in 1970. The newspaper is generally considered to have a conservative opinion page.

Not exactly prime DU source material! :puke:

[hack89]

30. Are you saying that Annan did not live in a rent control apartment

despite a very healthy income from the UN?

http://www.nysun.com/article/45403

[KamaAina]

33. Mitchell-Lama housing is not the same as rent control

This kind of apartment, part of a state-regulated housing development program called Mitchell-Lama, is subject to strict eligibility requirements, involving family size and financial ceilings on combined family income....

No one is saying that any of the Annans have broken the law; the regulations for Mitchell-Lama housing allow a certain amount of flexibility once applicants have obtained a lease....

As a matter of fact, Mitchell-Lama housing, which is aimed at middle-class New Yorkers, not "financially strapped low- to moderate-income New York families" as the Sun (just as RW as the Pgh. Tribune-Review) breathlessly puts it, is coming under some of the same financial pressures as rent-controlled housing. The regulations permit the developers to opt out of the Mitchell-Lama program after a number of years, under certain conditions. This makes Mitchell-Lama developments like Ruppert-Yorkville Towers, in what has become a fashionable section of the Upper East Side since it was built, red meat for developers looking to make a quick buck, at the expense of residents of some of the last reasonably-priced housing below 96th St.

[hack89]

36. So he is middle class? OK.

the point of all this is that it not a republican trait to take advantage of government subsidized housing in NY - it is a universal sport.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

60. Ah, so that's what annoyed you. Republican-bashing. Nonexistent Republican-bashing, at that.

:eyes:

[IDemo]

13. Look for the number and location to expand exponentially

You can leave New York or whichever overpriced metro you live in, but the food/rent/heat balancing act is going to touch many more everywhere before things get better, if ever.

[closeupready]

15. "Hunger"? What's that? Oh, wait, you mean "food insecurity".

:eyes:

[BenDavid]

16. Maybe that arrogant Trump

could show how much he cares about others and pay the rent for a year to those that are really in need....but no old donald would be like the man that sees a brother and sister in need of food and clothing and walks up to them and says let's pray. Then turns and walks away....That is what republicans do...They wanna pray...No deeds just words....but if you were to read the rest of that story you would see another man i say is liberal as he too walks up to them and he says come with me and he gets clothes for them and then buys them food and then afterwards, he says let us pray and give thanks to the L-rd....Now that is deeds and words my people....That is what being a liberal really is all about...

[Javaman]

17. As I was just saying...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2984655

[katty]

18. terrible choices - asked by so many suffering in the global gulag

[lovuian]

19. if we had decent wages people wouldn't be hungry

this is about wages being down

[sweetheart]

21. usury

The federal reserve act thanks you for a free cartel that charges
you interest by devaluing your earnings.... "Thank's for the free ride, suckers." - the fed

[HockeyMom]

22. $450 for a 2 bedroom in Chelsea in 1993

That is what my Mom was paying under Rent Control. I am sure that same apartment today is probably renting for over $2,000.

With my Dad's UNION Pension and Medical Benefits, Social Security, AND Rent Control, my Mom was able to live a middle class existence in Manhattan in her old age.

Unfortunately, that kind of life no longer exists. Everyone is "poorer" for this.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

58. a two bedroom in Chelsea

is probably more like $3,000 a month, if it's nice.

It's pretty easy to see why rent control is abhorred by the landowners.

[superconnected]

24. How terribly sad.

"When I first came here it was a lot of minorities, drug users, now it's the families, the struggling person," said Executive Director Sister Mary Alice Hannan, who has worked at the organization for 10 years.

"There's just some kind of a lack of awareness of the size of your family versus your income, your ability to live," Hannan said.

One quarter of New York's 1.9 million children are living in poverty, 40 percent of families with children had difficulty affording food in 2005 and one-fifth of the city's children rely on free food to survive, according to a report by the Food Bank For New York City.

.
.
.
The Food Bank for New York City, which helps distribute food for 250,000 meals a day, hands out more than 11 million pounds a year of fresh produce.

[superconnected]

25. The real problem is that working people aren't making it.

Many things come into factor here from health care costs(suddenly finding out you can't afford a broken arm let alone a heartattack) right down to the price of gas to get to work.
The problem is also that credit card rates are no longer capped - also killing the working people, jobs have moved over seas, medication now costs an arm and a leg, yadda yadda yadda.

So the middle class working poor are now checking into the food banks and homeless shelters, leaving the chronically poor/homeless out on the street.

How can we help who were poor as we are moving into their subsidies?

Really, NY's problem isn't the poor or their newly found formerly-middle-class-working-poor, its the Republican steal-from-the-poor-and-give-to-the-rich machine thats been ending the middle class systematically during it's time in congress. How many subsidies were the corporations given, and how many programs were cut for the people barely making it. Practically all.

Who got richer and who got poorer during bushes term? How are those college grants going? Remember the Pell grant that nearly everyone could depend on. Not anymore. Are your taxes less without out? No? well there ya go.

[Nikki Stone1]

35. And the middle class isn't far behind

This is globalization, the flight of jobs and capital overseas.

[sarcasmo]

32. Kick for the real tragedy.

[Jcrowley]

40. endemic

to the eco-politico paradigm

revolt-
ing

K
&
R

[LynnTheDem]

49. 35 million Americans struggled with hunger in 2005

We're the best! We're #1!

RAH! RAH! RAH!

Wake the fuck up, America.

[SpiralHawk]

50. Why don't they just eat what the George AWOL Bush clan is eating?

Bush twins' quiet return to DC


Before heading out to Camp David for Christmas with their family, first daughters Jenna and Barbara Bush returned to D.C. from Argentina and New York, respectively. The pair and a third friend were seen supping on the first floor of Café Atlantico on Saturday.

According to a Yeas & Nays source, they were laughing it up over plates of guacamole, ceviche, camarones and foie gras. They drank blackberry mojitos and the Dolium Reserva, an Argentinean Malbec that goes for $55 a bottle.

[bobbolink]

63. And forget health care!

As w8liftinglady has brought to our attention, it's a bit hard to get proper nutrition when you lack teeth to properly chew.

I'm so sick of such an ugly nation!

:mad:

[earth mom]

65. Those people need to move somewhere cheaper to live!

I agree with whoever said the same thing upthread. People just get blinders on and refuse to see that there are better opportunities elsewhere. My sister in law is living in Southern California and is on disability and is pretty much homeless right now though she won't admit it. It's really sad, because she goes from sofa to sofa in friends homes, her moms apartment in the old folks complex and her two grown sons apartment. I told her to come on up here-to the PNW-that we could get her a decent place to live for half of what it costs down there but she won't leave her boys. The boys won't leave either, even though they can't afford a house and pay through the nose for rent. It's crazy! My husband and I saw the writing on the wall in the late 90s and moved up to Northern California (before it got crazy expensive too) even though we were living on the edge financially. We are proof that it CAN be done even without a big bank account or credit cards. To move, we sold a bunch of stuff and saved some cash by living with dad for a short while and then we were out of there! We even moved again after a year another 500 miles further north and though it wasn't easy, it was so worth it! We've paid our dues and then some, and while we've never gone to a food bank, we've certainly had our share of peanut butter and jelly for dinner and driving on fumes. Things are better ever since hubby got a better paying job a couple of years ago, but I would never go back to that superficial overpriced hell hole-Southern California!

Taking the road less traveled was the best thing we ever did!

[IdaBriggs]

72. Quit making so much sense! It *ruins* the "poor victim" attitude

so many posters in this thread like to spew!

:sarcasm:

People get comfortable behaving like idiots. My sister's sister-in-law is living in a BAD neighborhood in Detroit, with an atrocious school for her children, and no transportation; whenever her brother (my sister's spouse) tries to talk her into moving out of Detroit (where rent is cheaper, there are better paying jobs, AND the schools are better), she laughs at them. Meanwhile, she's paying TWICE the rent they are for a cockroach infested place with less space than they have.

Sigh. But everyone has to drive an hour each way to pick her and her kids up for family events because she is 'too poor' to afford a car. (Did I mention she's paying twice as much rent as they are for half the space in a cockroach infested building in a BAD neighborhood?)

Want to bet how her lifestyle is going to change when it comes time for retirement?

Sigh.

[Xenotime]

67. Here's what I think...

53-year-old Pierre Simmons should look into getting a FULL TIME JOB. They pay more.

If you can't pay rent, you are living in the wrong place. Move to some place you can afford.

The last I checked, pinto beans and rice didn't cost that much. Go find those soups that are 10 for $1. $3 would buy you a weeks worth of food.

[DaveJ]

79. I agree mostly... there are some holes

Especially, the part where you tell him to move is discouraging. People should not be forced to move out of their communities. Before the imperial system took hold people would fight to the death to live in one place. We are not a nomadic heard.

Also... Remember that it always feels easy to get a good job when you already have one. But even with two college degrees I've been in a position where the only thing I could get was a warehouse job paying $6.50/hr for three months, forcing me behind on all my bills. So I was working my butt off, but that was all I could get.

And telling someone to eat a cheap diet is also telling them to have an unhealthy diet. A starch based diet of beans and rice is not all that great. I'm not an expert dietician but we also need fresh fruit and vegetables and dairy products to stay healthy. There may be creative ways to have a cheap and healthy diet but not everyone knows about them....

So your implication that he is not doing all he can may be right, or should I say 'Right'? However, people are human, 'human' meaning not everyone is perfect. Therein lies the need for a compassionate society.

[bobbolink]

82. Oh, shit!!! How much nutrition do you think is in those 3 for $1?

Have you ever looked it up??????

Ignorance is glorious. :crazy:

[Sapphire Blue]

86. If you ever have to ask "food or rent?", I hope you remember what you just posted; Meanwhile....

... please take a tour of Poverty, USA: http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/tour.htm

[Dastard Stepchild]

68. I had to do this... Didn't want to though....

Not in NYC, in Chicago. The rents have been rising ridiculously in the past 10 years, but especially in the past 5. I kept getting pushed further and further west, which, if I had a car, would have been ok. But my reliance on public transportation (the L in particular) made it challenging.

So I moved to a ring burb still connected to the city via the train. It was sad for me, as I truly loved all the city had to offer. I didn't want to leave the city, but I really had no other options. It was necessary to maintain a similar standard of living that I had about 5 years ago.

I reckon it cost me about $500 for the relocation costs and about $1500 for move in costs, for a grand total of $2000. I could swing it, which made the move easier for me. And I'll make it all back in the fist year alone (my rent dropped $400 per month AFTER the move). However, I could see how that $2000 may be an impediment for others.

I think that the issue of rent is one of the most significant challenges facing lower-income people (hell, even moderate income people such as myself), and I just don't hear enough talking about it.

[DaveJ]

76. How cares about affordable housing????

If everyone had affordable housing everyone would stop working and smoke crack all day anyway, right? Face it, what made America great was enslaving masses, not spirit and ingenuity. :sarcasm:

:mad: :grr:

[Sapphire Blue]

87. People all over the country ask this same question. I ask why their human rights are being violated.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 25:

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[haele]

89. Cities lure in the less wealthy with jobs and then trap them in a cycle of poverty.

Because of population densities, there are more jobs that seem to pay reliably to be found in cities than there are out in "the small country town". There also seem to be more opportunities to get into interesting jobs that can't often be found in small towns.

The downside is that most jobs in a city tend to start out as drone jobs within a company or corporate hierarchy - you work for someone else that makes their money off you and your co-workers. There are fewer opportunities the further "up the ladder" you want to go in most companies. You may want to work your way into management, you might want to use your talent and expertise to become a lead widget expert, but how many expert or manager jobs are there in any company? How many people are you competing against for the same job as you work your way up a career path?

This is a truth no matter where you work - unless you're "working for yourself", you have to find your way through a hierarchy to improve your wages and position, if that's what you want.

Once you move into a city, your ability to do anything is linked to your ability to make money - which means for most people, the ability to remain employed. Your ability to improve your life depends on how well up the income ladder you started out, personal relationships and luck (opportunity).

Despite the Horatio Alger tales, working hard just means you work hard, not that anyone values your work enough to help you gain financial ground. Even if you can generally save a quarter of the average paycheck that covers bills and needs, a reduction in salary or one added expense, say, a major injury or illness that keeps you from working for a month, a divorce, or a "short" period of unemployment, losing your housing because the owner decided to go sell the apartment you rent...and your paycheck suddenly can't pay for food, the rent, utilities, insurance...and you start falling behind on the bills because most times, it's difficult to gage what to cut out and what to string out initially. Especially if you have kids you want to try to protect from an extreme upheaval.

You max out your credit cards or come close to it. Denial sets it - it's only "a short setback". You "borrowed" from your savings to cover the initial shock. You can't replace what you took. It usually takes a working person 2 months at the same income level to recover the expenses that one week without income.

But chances are, after any major setback, you don't return to your previous income; your income is usually cut by a third because you started over...so too often, to save expenses, once you've cut out the frivolities, to move to a cheaper place to live until you can get back on your feet. Which means, you have to get together deposit and first month's rent ... and you most likely have to get rid of excess furnishings, off season clothes, collections, kid's stuff - but since you don't want to actually get rid of these things, you get storage...and then, you still have to get to work somehow - and find something to eat every day...
...and from there, for most people without family or friends with the means and willingness to pick up slack and provide "free" help (even if it's based on a promise to pay later), everything starts to spiral out of control.

Food, Housing, Medical - all expenses forcing the average worker to live paycheck to paycheck.

I've seen it happen over and over. I've had it happen to me - and I've been lucky enough to have supportive family and friends. I've helped out friends that find themselves in positions like this through no fault of their own.

Haele

[pitohui]

93. i agree

the problem is if you stay in the country then often you never have a chance at any decent job at all, especially if you're a woman so what choice do you have but to gamble on the city job and hope you're the one who doesn't fall thru the cracks?

we just don't treat the working person well in this country

working for yourself is not an answer, since most self-employeds can't get affordable health insurance, so the first time you get seriously ill or injured, you are screwed

i too remember days deciding between food and rent, and in a much less expensive city in new york, new orleans is probably the cheapest or among the cheapest large cities in the nation (i realize that it is not a large city now but i'm talking then)

i agree w. what the quote said, i always opted to pay the rent and just figure out a way to get food, if you have a safe place to sleep and bathe it makes it easier to pull yourself back on track, but god! i did everything from cruise art gallery walks and eat all the cheese and grapes to buying a 50 cent beer at happy hour and eating all the meatballs on the free buffet, anywhere i would hear of an event involving free food, i don't care if it was a car lot giving a free hotdogs, i was there

as far as my medicine, most of the time i didn't buy that at all

it's scary that nothing has changed and, really, it is probably worse for young people now, because the gap between what a young person can earn -- and what they have to pay for rent and food -- seems much wider to me today

[Zodiak]

94. I just want to say...

that the lack of compassion I have seen on this thread from some DUers makes me sad. The dual spectacle of no sympathy for the poor coupled with self-aggrandizing declarations of personal economic efficiency and perfection captures perfectly why this country is morally bankrupt.

Perfection is the province of no one.

All deserve sympathy.

All deserve human dignity and basic human rights.

There are no qualifiers. That includes geographic location as well as level of personal ambition.