First Person To Suggest Plame Leak Was Treason COMMITS SUICIDE!?

[Jcrowley]

Lawyer falls to death at hotel
Seaside: Police suspect Paul Sanford committed suicide
By JULIA REYNOLDS
Herald Staff Writer

In what police describe as a "probable" suicide leap, a prominent Monterey Bay Area attorney fell at least nine floors to his death at the Embassy Suites Hotel Monterey Bay in Seaside the morning before Christmas.

Shortly before 9:30 a.m. Sunday, officers found the body of Aptos attorney Paul Sanford in the west end of the hotel lobby, where he had landed on a large ventilation grate.

Police Capt. Steve Cercone said horrified guests were eating breakfast in the atrium at the time, and a number of witnesses saw Sanford fall from somewhere between the 9th and 12th floors.

"I'm at a loss for words," said Sanford's friend and business associate, Monterey attorney Shawn Mills. "Paul really had his fingers in a lot of different pies. He was from the East Coast, and I used to call him our 'West Coast Kennedy.'"

<snip>

Almost immediately, he caused a stir after he joined the White House Press Corps in 2005, making waves as the first reporter to ask then-White House press secretary Scott McClellan whether the leaking of CIA agent Valerie Plame's name might be considered an act of treason.

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/16326502.htm

[GrumpyGreg]

1. Good Lord!

[StrictlyRockers]

85. More info on this from Wayne Madsen Reports:

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/index.php

December 28-31, 2006 -- California attorney and journalist Paul Sanford, Michael Newdow's attorney who argued before the US Supreme Court why "Under God" should be excised from the Pledge of Allegiance but who is best remembered for asking Bush Press Secretary Scott McClellan in 2005 why the leaking of CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson's name by the White House should not be considered an act of treason, died suddenly at the Embassy Suites Hotel in Seaside, California on Christmas Eve.

For over a decade, this reporter has been cited as a modern-day Osiris in trying to alert the world to the suspicious deaths of journalist colleagues -- from Danny Casolaro and Paul Wilcher to Gary Webb and Dale Solly. Unfortunately, there is now again reason to believe that a journalist's death may have not been what is being reported. The suspicious deaths of opponents of the Bush Crime Family, from journalists and intelligence agents to businessmen and other private citizens, has reached epidemic proportions.

According to police who spoke to the Monterey Herald, Sanford, who was married with two children, "probably" jumped between 9 and 12 floors above the hotel's atrium to his death in what is being called a "suicide." Odd behavior for someone who had just bought his mother's home in picturesque Pebble Beach where he planned to retire in the future. Sanford, an advocate for progressive causes, was a strong believer in the US Constitution who always carried a copy with him. In 2005, Sanford represented a Santa Cruz homeless man who was cited by police for violating a city ordinance against using "profane or abusive" language in soliciting for money. The man had a sign in his straw hat that read "Fuck the Pigs." By pigs, the man meant the police. City prosecutors later dropped the charges.

Sanford's friends expressed disbelief that he would put his family through such a trauma resulting from a suicide.

Sanford was not checked into the hotel but often met contacts at the neighboring Chili's Restaurant. His car was parked next to the Embassy Suites. Police had no clear evidence to rule Sanford's death a suicide other than some hotel cleaners' statements that he was seen pacing an upstairs hallway prior to his death.

[babylonsister]

2. Big debate on whether this was a suicide or something more sinister:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2983854#2986594

[Bitwit1234]

3. Makes you wonder......

Remember the sucide of the woman bush was accused of sexually harrassing and stalking. She was supposed to have shot her self, but one of the sites that had an article about it said they never found the gun.

[mnhtnbb]

4. I would hope investigators would want to know all occupants of the floor

where he was seen. Sounds like he had a meeting with someone. Who? What was discussed? This doesn't make sense.

Or maybe I've seen too many Law & Order's

[shance]

5. It wasn't suicide.

His friends said there was absolutely no sign of it, that he would not have committed suicide.

Friends and family, moreoften friends know if someone is going to do something like that or not. Not a trace of any indication or past suicidal tendencies or anything here.

On another note, how many people jump out of buildings to commit suicide? Or are they forced to jump and/or pushed?

People think about suicide for years before committing such an act.

This was not a suicide.

So why did he jump off out of the building?

[Cleita]

8. Haven't others who got too close to the truth with this WH also

committed suicide jumping from buildings?

[shance]

11. Flyarm had an interesting post about those falling off of buildings

on another post. I wish I could remember which one.

It had to do with this topic.

It may be the post by Steve.

[Cleita]

14. I found it on the other post. Lots of good information there from

Octafish too. These people have acted like criminals in every way. There is no reason that murdering the opposition and calling it suicide wouldn't be in their playbook as well. I hope investigators look at everything, but I wonder if they too will be intimidated not to delve any further into the matter.

[tom_paine]

20. Could you please post the link to the info in question

And for the record, I agree with you regarding what the Busheviks are capable of.

They didn't blink at 500,000+ innocent Iraqis as well as almost 3,000 US troops killed & 40,000+ maimed.

For a lie, willfully and calculatingly told. For a war, waged for a foolhardy and shortsighted agenda (and OIL), in which things were made worse.

[bahrbearian]

38. Try this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2983854#2986594

[Cleita]

67. That's the one. n/t

[bahrbearian]

37. The same as posted by "babylonsister" above?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2983854#2986594

[Cleita]

64. Yes, I believe it is. n/t

[SharonAnn]

76. Or been found dead in hotel bathtubs? The reporter who was going

to publish info about * several years ago?

I think there have been others.

[madeline_con]

61. Men usually use a gun, right? n/t

[mzmolly]

79. This was a warning to others to keep their !#$@ mouth shut.

[happydreams]

82. Bingo. nt

[forintegrity]

6. the WH Mafia strikes again?

too coincidental that so many involved in openly challenging this administration eventually turn up dead.

[BleedingHeartRN]

10. Uh huh.....

I've always thought this administration operated like the mob. Far too coincidental in my opinion.

[Cleita]

7. Isn't this the SS and CIA's favorite way of eliminating

troublesome witnesses? I mean jumping off of high buildings isn't a common method of suicide for those who are suffering from depression that I know of.

It's also a favorite gangland way of eliminating enemies because it can be blamed as a suicide or accident since no weapons are used, or outside witnesses.

[CTyankee]

90. Isn't this called "defenestration"?

It's been known to have been used against European political leaders. Somebody in Czechoslovakia, as I recall, in the 1950s...

[qnr]

109. Similar. Defenestration means to throw someone out of a window.

fenestra means window in Latin.

[CTyankee]

115. Yep, Finestra in Italian. But isn't this what we are talking about?

I thought that is what the OP meant by Sanford's suspicious "suicide."

[Garbo 2004]

117. He didn't fall from a window. Fell from interior hallway/walkway overlooking the atrium.

Like one of these shown here, only higher: http://embassysuites.hilton.com/en/es/hotels/photo_gallery.jhtml?ctyhocn=MRYESES&category=0&index=0&photo=1

[CTyankee]

123. Oh, but isn't the inference the same about the throwing from the window?

I mean, it seems to amount to the same thing, when you think about it. Somebody tried to kill him by forcibly throwing over the walkway or whatever it was to kill him by the fall.

That's all I am saying...

[babylonsister]

9. I wonder if Sanford had ANYTHING to do with the investigation?

:tinfoilhat:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

12. Cabal. n/t

MKJ

[leftofthedial]

13. he caught a bad case of Poppy disease

[Occulus]

15. wrong thread

oops

[stillcool]

16. oh boy....

that "probable" caveat in the police statement along with the part at the end of the article which says...the police would not disclose why they thought it was a suicide...well...somethings up.

[niyad]

17. as church lady would say, "how conveeeeeeeenient"

[tom_paine]

18. From the 1953 CIA assassination manual (declassified)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:lFONh_vrU5YJ:www.frankolsonproject.org/Documents/Assassination%2520Manual.html+CIA+assassination+manual&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

The most efficient accident, in simple assassination, is a fall of 75 feet or more onto a hard surface. Elevator shafts, stair wells, unscreened windows and bridges will serve. Bridge falls into water are not reliable. In simple cases a private meeting with the subject may be arranged at a properly-cased location. The act may be executed by sudden, vigorous of the ankles, tipping the subject over the edge. If the assassin immediately sets up an outcry, playing the “horrified witness”, no alibi or surreptitious withdrawal is necessary. In chase cases it will usually be necessary to stun or drug the subject before dropping him. Care is required to insure that no wound or condition not attributable to the fall is discernible after death.


Now pay close attentions to this paragraph in the article:

Police said that before Sanford fell, hotel housekeepers saw him pacing the hallway of an upper floor. Cercone said Sanford's car was parked next to the hotel, and he was not checked in as a guest.

Sounds like the fellow was invited to a private meeting on the deserted upper floor of the hotel, eh?

I would like to note here that I loathe the fact that such a scenario is plausible, even probable, but the overt and shameless criminality of the Busheviks as well as their ability to literally perform criminality in broad daylight and not only get away with it, but retroactively "legalize" their lawbreaking.

In such a corrupt and unaccountable environment, in which I am still not convinced the system of checks and balances is any better than in critical condition, headed by such loathsome people who's absolute lack of morality and simple human decency is on display openly, if I am to be honest with myself, I must place this in the possible/probable category.

My God, I just want to inch back a little further from this precipice of Sovietism we stand at. maybe in january.

[Tsiyu]

19. Nice work if you can get it, huh?

Although, we have certain DU posters, who shall go unnamed, who chime in right away - because they know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING - and they will tell you our government could NEVER do such a thing and we are all just a bunch of wild-eyed, tinfoil hatters to think our government would kill anyone and make it look like suicide..

I guess your post clears the one issue up - our government does and has sanctioned suicide for political purposes. Anyone who wants to call that far-fetched can come up to the mountain and BITE ME.

My condolences to this brave journalist's family and friends.

[Tellurian]

111. Well here it is..

within the context of the article:

Sanford posed this question at a news conference in 05' to Scott McClellan:

"There has been a lot of speculation concerning the meaning of the underlying statute and the grand jury investigation concerning Mr. Rove," Sanford asked. "The question is, have the legal counsel to the White House or White House staff reviewed the statute in sufficient specificity to determine whether a violation of that statute would, in effect, constitute treason?"

"McClellan was apparently flustered by the question and replied that "those are matters for those overseeing the investigation to decide."

"The White House incident sparked controversy after Beltway bloggers incorrectly described Sanford as a reporter for the Air America radio network. At the time, he was associated with Watsonville radio station KOMY, an Air America affiliate, and Sanford told reporters he never claimed to work for Air America."

"Sanford eventually filed suit against station owner Michael Zwerling after Zwerling was reported as saying Sanford had not been authorized to represent the station as a reporter, a statement Sanford refuted."

"Mills represented Sanford in that suit, which was scheduled to begin in Santa Cruz County Superior Court in February. Mills said he did not know if the case will continue after Sanford's sudden death."


Sanford's profile for particulars and his partner as his atty...hmmm. Knowing the Libby trial is scheduled to commence sometime early next year. It seems these two trials were about to collide simultaneously. A strong possibility Sanford had evidence to back up his bold assertion to McClellan and someone felt threatened enough to put an end to their worries.

[fooj]

120. Zwerlings=nutcases.

His mother is is absolutely VILE. I heard her spewing nothing but lies and ugliness on the airwaves one day and I had to pull over. She really shook me up. Nasty, evil wench with ties to Murdoch.

[autorank]

21. Excellent inference.

Not a guest...pacing the hall. What a world we live in when these types of questions are necessary.

One or two plans for the futuredon't contradict suicide if they're limply asserted but it sounds like he had boat load.

Keep at it, this is interesting and important.

[dailykoff]

29. Murder by the book.

Nice find!

[siligut]

30. Thanks

Declassified info is a blessing, for those who know and a curse for those who would rather not. Sad and sick, it is.

[malaise]

42. And to think the Libby trial

has not started yet. Suicide yeh right :sarcasm:

[ooglymoogly]

92. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vidar]

93. Good catch.

[Liberal In Texas]

96. Mattie Storin.

Just like how the journalist character in "House of Cards" (1990-BBC,WGBH) was murdered for getting too close to the truth in that strangely prescient political mini-series.

[Tellurian]

110. As we wade through the slurry dissing..

why Ford for the most part kept his opinions private.
He knew the Rules of the game and what happens if
you play to expose them...

Sanford should have known better. It might be of
some help to check if he had a soft warning before
the final wake.

[Tom Joad]

22. Nothing in here to show evidence of murder.

Also, no real motive for the White House to harm him, other than he asked an embarrassing question of Scott M. the press secratary over a year ago. (certainly not the only one). If he were a witness in the Plame case, then perhaps you would at least have a reasonable motive, but here it sounds like he was just one vocal critic, and there are now millions of us.

[dailykoff]

33. Except that he was pushed out of a 9th floor window

of somebody else's hotel room. Whose? Gee, the cops didn't think to ask.

[onenote]

44. and you know he was pushed?

How?

[dailykoff]

51. Suicides jump out of their own windows, and he hadn't taken a room.

Not a suicide.

[LeahD]

102. It sounds as if the "fall" wasn't from a window on the outside of the building, but

from an inner balcony/corridor into an atrium inside the building.

[Garbo 2004]

113. Except it wasn't from a window or a room. Interior walkways surround the huge atrium of

Embassy Suites. That's the "hallway" outside the rooms. That's where he fell from.

Sanford went over the railing overlooking the atrium and landed by the lobby area. Inside the building. And the walkways are visible across the atrium since they surround the atrium area. Not exactly a private place to shove/throw someone over the railing since you can see the other walkways and risk being seen if people go to or come out of their rooms around the same level around the atrium. Pic: http://embassysuites.hilton.com/en/es/hotels/photo_gallery.jhtml?ctyhocn=MRYESES&category=0&index=0&photo=1

[rman]

34. "No motive"

LOL

[petgoat]

83. The reasonable motive is to plant a seed of uneasiness in the

minds of media personnel.

"Yeah, I know it was a suicide, and the Bushes would never do anything so evil,
but it just goes to show how things turn out for people who don't play nice, huh?"

[mzmolly]

84. Of course not. That's the point.

Don't leave evidence. The motive is to warn others. What was the "motive" for invading Iraq? "He tried to kill my daddy." Bush is vengeful. I don't put a thing past him. They murdered reporters in Iraq as well, remember? It's not a stretch to assume they'd "hush" reporters in the US.

[librechik]

116. no note--so no reason to suspect suicide necessarily

I wonder if his wife thinks he suicided?

Hotel workers saw him pacing. That is their evidence of suicide.

I wonder if there are other witnesses (besides the diners in the atrium--a daring murder, if it was that! But also odd for suicide to choose such a public place.)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Maybe There Was Foul Play, But If So It Is Completely Unrelated To The BFEE.

Since the fact he asked a question once that they may not have liked would be the most insane, irrational and delusional of a motive for murder I've ever heard put forth, it would therefore be logical to deduce that such a connection is simply non-existent.

If it wasn't suicide though, I wonder what recent enemies he had made that would wish to do him harm, or who would have a real motive. None of us know that whatsoever right now and don't even have any suspect. I wonder if the cops will come up with anything. Only time will tell I guess.

[tom_paine]

27. Also possible. maybe a Madyln Murray O'Hair thing

And who knows, maybe even she wasn't executed for her outspoken atheism by Bushevik Christianists back in the day. Maybe it was just a robbery/murder.

The truth is: All that seperates any nation from most "conspiracy theories" being fact, is a good system of checks & balances along with enough honest and almost-honest people to police it with any vigor.

In other words, the less totalitarian and unaccounatble a society is, the fewer "conspiracy theories" turn out to be true.

Taking the extreme examples so illustrative, the Nazis and Soviets.

All newspapers and TV stations full of lies. Most "conspiracy theories" turn out to be fact.

Concentration camps and making soap out of human skin? Yep.
Scientific experiments on people? Yep.
Coomunist "mental Health Facilities" in which treatment is torture. yep.
Did someone engineer the Ukraine Famine of the 30s to weaken resistance? Yep.

And so forth.

Where we live now, not all the media is all lies all the time. But the comforting idea that the BIG terrible wrongs (like telling hundreds of conflicting lies and STILL successfully taking us to war) can and 100% WILL be exposed by a vigilant media is a pipe dream these days. Amd Enron quite clearly shows that simply ENORMOUS criminal conspiracies can go on for years without cracking from the inside. I remain fully convinced that had Enron not gone hogwild bankrupt, and modulated their stealing just a little bit and not squeezed California so brutally and obviously, they'd still be in business today.

Even at the height of Old America, Watergate was a conspiracy theory pooh-poohed by all good Rationalists. Sour Grapes by the Dems, don't you know. Then it went to being a third-rate burglary of no importance.

Then it became fact. Like the Tuskeegee Experiments, another conspiracy theory by crazy African-Americans.

Wups. That one turned out to be true.

If those things, conspiricies by the criminal definition, happened then, what is possible with the weakness of the media and the hyper-secrecy (not to mention the biggest unbroken record of criminal successes without a single indictment since Al Capone's run), is limitless.

And that is scary. Believe it or not, I am a rationalist, too, at heart. That's why I want my strong healthy democartic-republic back with a vigorous and independant Free Press.

Because I want to again be able to say, "I don't believe a criminal conspiracy that large could be executed without being exposed by the press."

Can't say that now.

[leveymg]

43. Your reference to O'Hare may be spot-on. See my post below:

"Another reason RW crazies might want to throw Sanford off a balcony"

[fooj]

28. Completely unrelated to the BFEE.

Now THAT sounds delusional. Like Octafish says...KNOW your BFEE.

[0007]

71. I also did a twirl and a backward flip over the delusional

BFEE comment also.

Obviously they are those that are confused!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

73. And There Are Those Whose Tinfoil Has Shrunken Wayyyyy Too Tight.

[arikara]

31. Fascinating deduction

...considering that BFEE is not rational, they are certainly insane and they have proven themselves to be extremely delusional. Crazy and evil.

My bet is that the cops won't ever come up with anything other than the official story which is already in place.

[rman]

35. How's the Plame leak unrelated to BFEE?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. How Is Rain Not Related To Clouds? Both Questions Are Silly And Irrelevant.

And the former one is the most ridiculous one I've seen asked in either thread. Congratulations.

[rman]

47. It's your claim though

Most ridiculous indeed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. If You Truly Believe That, Then You Must Learn How To Read.

To say I said such a thing either shows a complete lack of ability on your behalf to understand a point, or a complete intention on your behalf to deceitfully and dishonorably twist and spin the shit out of a valid point.

Either way, the premise is worthless.

Bye now! :hi:

[rman]

54. here's the connection:

Bush admin - Plame leak - Lawyer who said Plame leak is treason

And then there's you who says Bush admin and Lawyer who said Plame leak is treason are unrelated.

:hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

56. ROFLMAO!!!!!!! Wowwyyy! What A Connection........

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry bub, but that ain't anywhere nearssssssss valid motive.

Yeah. Some unknown guy asked a question about plame at a presser over a year and a half ago, and it meant enough to the BFEE to take the time, risks and effort to have him offed this much later, even though they don't give a shit about him, he wasn't investigating anything about them, and doesn't matter to anybody whatsoever. Yeah. That makes loadssssssss of sense. Yup. Good connection there. I see it now.

:spray:

:crazy:

:rofl:

[rman]

58. i think you should use more smilies

really

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. I Think You Should Use More Clear Reasoning In Your Deductions.

Really.

(And I thought my use of smilies was justttttttttt right.)

[siligut]

101. Kinda like aloha?

:hi:

[Th1onein]

50. WAIT A MINUTE HERE!

Remember: this guy is a journalist. He might have been working on something else entirely, that was damaging to this administration. I've often thought that we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg, when it comes to this administration's criminal behavior. What in the world are they hiding, if what we have seen already is any indication of the lengths to which they will go to get absolute power? And you KNOW they are hiding something. This is, after all, the most secretive White House EVER.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. Whatever They're Hiding, Has No Relation To Him Whatsoever.

He wasn't investigating them or doing any poking around in relation to them whatsoever. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. He simply wasn't.

The only, yes ONLY motive that anyone has for this is that he asked a semi-provocative question over a year and a half ago that no one cares about anymore. The BFEE could give a rats ass about this guy and it would be the biggest stretch of imagination I could think of to consider that after all this time and for such petty reasons they would put forth the risk and effort to off such an insignificant character, of which whose demise would be meaningless to them. Makes zero sense.

He was a lawyer working on some provocative cases unrelated to the BFEE however, so maybe he pissed somebody off that we have no idea about.

And again, so sorry to hear about your nephew. God bless.

[Tsiyu]

87. You know so much about this guy

you even know for certain he wasn't working on ANYTHING that might turn out to hurt TBTB?

How do you know this?

Was he a friend of yours?

Did you work with him?

A few posts into this thread, someone posted an article discussing this man's passion for the Constitution and his work to defend it. That alone makes him a target, unless you're going to try to tell me that the BFEE just LOVES the Constitution and hasn't pissed on it at every turn. You aren't going to tell me that, are you? Please, spare yourself the embarrassment.

But go ahead and say that the only thing this guy did was ask a question some time ago. You are SO IN TUNE with EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD that you know for a fact that this journalist had nothing else going on that might piss off the REpukes.

Wow, you really are amazing. Perhaps we should just turn the world over to you and you can solve all the world's problems and all the world's crimes.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

112. Wow.

Really, I'm confused. How do you know all this?

"He wasn't investigating them or doing any poking around in relation to them whatsoever. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. He simply wasn't."

Do you work for the White House or what?

[Malikshah]

53. Bingo-- damn the usual suspects rings clear

Why anyone would want to make such a bold statement that the BFEE was not involved... wow-- no clear reasoning given for it.

Just a blanket statement.

Strange...

quite strange.

You're on the right track.

And, btw. My condolences to you and your family.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. "no clear reasoning given for it.". Actually, Clear Reasoning Is The Very Heart Of It.

I'm actually still in awe that there has been so much discussion these past two days about the concept, as if it even has the slightest bit of validity.

Guess there's just no stoppin the tin foil sometimes!

[Malikshah]

65. Try as one might...

Fear not the path of truth for the lack of travelers upon it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. If I Feared It, I Would've Turned Back By Now.

So why do you fear it so?

[Malikshah]

81. No fear here. Just disappointment.

Enjoy the oblivion

[diane in sf]

68. How do you know it is unrelated to the BFEE? (eom)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

74. By Common Sense Reasoning, Logical Deduction, Non-Delusional Thoughts, And Critical Thinking.

To give credence for a moment that because some unknown guy asked a provocative question at a presser a year and half ago the BFEE had him killed now, would be an incredible violation of my personal pride in my objective, critical, logical and intellectual reasoning capabilities and would cause me to cringe mercilessly at myself upon reflecting on such momentary delusion.

Tell me, without saying "I don't put anything past them blah blah", does it REALLY make sense to you for even a smidgen of a second that the BFEE would take the risks and effort of offing some unknown guy who no one cares about and is currently not connected to them in any shape or form whatsoever, just because a year and a half ago he asked a semi provocative question that has long been forgotten? You HONESTLY think that makes sense, sounds rational and is not of a delusional thought process for even a second?

I certainly don't. It is a completely illogical theory with no merit whatsoever in my opinion.

[petgoat]

80. How do I know you owe me $10,000? Arithmetic. nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. Better Brush Up On Those Math Skills Son.

[petgoat]

103. My point exactly. Show your work. nt

[farmboxer]

24. Too many suicides..........

I smell a rat.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

25. One prominent Republican ..... but maybe there are two

The only prominent Republican that I know of that has died in a "suspicious plane crash" was Senator John Tower, first Republican senator in TX since Reconstruction.

I believe that he was on the Iran-Contra Committee.
Draw your own conclusions.

That was within a week or so of the plane crash that killed another senator, Senator Heinz. The one that made Teresa Heinz-Kerry a widow. I think Heinz was a Republican too, not sure. Don't know the circumstances on that one.

[tom_paine]

32. Heinz was a LIBERAL Republican (yes, they did once exist)

and an enemy of the Bush Family.

A second helicopter crashed into his helicopter, I believe.

[MetaTrope]

49. And remember Bush investor Salem bin Laden's "accidental" aircraft crash

...in Texas?

:smoke:

[saracat]

26. Maybe he was "offed" by the opposition in one of his cases?

e was apracticing attorney wasn't he? And representing some pro bono clients? Maybe he stumbled on something someone didn't want pursued. This doesn't haver to be about Busco.

[Marie26]

36. Sort of reminds me of this:

"State Department Employee Found Dead Outside Agency"

Fox News
Saturday, November 08, 2003

WASHINGTON - A State Department employee was found dead outside the agency headquarters in Washington, D.C., Friday around 5 p.m., Fox News has confirmed.

State Department sources told The Washington Post that John Kokal worked in a unit that dealt with intelligence and research. Sources said he handled classified documents regularly but was not involved in intelligence analysis. ...

Fire Department Spokesman Alan Etter said the man, a white male, was wearing a dress shirt, tie and slacks, but was not wearing shoes nor a suit jacket. He was found lying in the bottom of a concrete window well near 23rd and D streets, about eight stories below the top of the building. The well drops about 20 feet from ground level.

It was not yet known whether the employee jumped or fell. Firemen told Fox News that the D.C. police were handling the investigation and that the death could possibly be a homicide and that the body would not be immediately removed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102563,00.html

Employee Dies in Fall From State Dept.

Washington Post
Saturday, November 8, 2003

A 58-year-old State Department employee was found dead yesterday after apparently jumping from the top of the department's headquarters building in Foggy Bottom, D.C. police said.

Police said John Kokal of Arlington was found shortly after 5 p.m. near 23rd and D streets on a sunken terrace that is about eight stories below the top of the building.

State Department sources said Kokal worked in a unit that dealt with intelligence and research and handled classified documents regularly but was not involved in intelligence analysis. Police said the official cause and manner of death is to be determined by the D.C. medical examiner

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A14194-2003Nov7?language=printer

How Did a Senior Analyst at State Department's Intelligence Unit Fall from the Roof of State Department Headquarters and Why is No One Talking About It?

- People who know Kokal told the French publication Geopolitique that Kokal was involved in the analysis of intelligence about Iraq prior to and during the war against Saddam Hussein.

INR and other State Department officials report that a "chill" has set in at the State Department following Kokal's defenestration. A number of employees are afraid to talk about the suspicious death. It also unusual that The Northern Virginia Journal, a local Arlington newspaper, has not published an obituary notice on Kokal.

http://www.mousemusings.com/weblogs/2003_11_01_archives.html#106940531106117642

[leveymg]

39. Self-delete

[leveymg]

41. Here's another reason RW crazies might want to throw Sanford off a balcony

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/March/24/local/stories/02local.htm
March 24, 2004


Aptos lawyer takes part in high court pledge case
By CATHY REDFERN
Sentinel STAFF WRITER

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Aptos attorney Paul S. Sanford will be in the hallowed halls of the U.S. Supreme Court today as he helps an Elk Grove man argue to the country’s highest justices why the words "under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance.Michael Newdow, father of a 9-year-old fourth-grader, sued the Elk Grove school district near Sacramento over the use of the words he claims violate the separation of church and state. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco agreed the phrase did not belong in a government-sanctioned pledge.

SNIP

Sanford also filed an amicus brief in support of Newdow’s case for American Atheists Inc. More than 40 briefs have been filed. "He’s somewhat of a lone crusader," Sanford said. "He doesn’t have a staff. I’m really impressed with his guts." Newdow, an atheist, doesn’t want his daughter exposed to the phrase "under God" when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in school. The former emergency room physician who earned a law degree in 2002 will give a 30- minute argument in front of the justices today. After the arguments, Sanford and Newdow will meet reporters on the steps of the court.

Sanford was raised Catholic in Boston. He earned a master’s degree in political science at Boston College before working as a political consultant for several years. In 1996, he earned his law degree from Monterey College of Law, focusing on Constitutional Law. He also taught constitutional law at Monterey College of Law and Cal State University Monterey Bay. Sanford practices mostly criminal defense, he said, and is drawn to cases of people whose civil liberties have been compromised. "My religious feelings are not particularly relevant," he said. "I’m not an atheist, but I am very sympathetic to their plight. They are profoundly discriminated against in our culture and it’s a great honor to have the opportunity to represent a group that is routinely demeaned and belittled.

"Cases in which people’s rights are threatened by the government are almost always unpopular — atheists, the homeless, people charged with crimes. It’s their rights that need protection."

SNIP

Contact Cathy Redfern at [e-mail].

[leveymg]

40. Here's an account from a Santa Cruz, CA site about Sanford's WH press incident

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cruz/09.21.05/nuz-0538.html
T Is for Treason

Ever since it turned out that so-called "White House reporter JEFF GANNON" was really a Republican activist named JAMES DALE GUCKERT, and that he was the one lobbing softball questions as the scandal over the missing WMDs in Iraq blew up, Nüz has dreamed of infiltrating said press corps--only we'd do it to play extreme hardball, of course.

So, imagine our surprise when we learned that Aptos resident, constitutional law professor and Democratic activist PAUL SANFORD beat us to that particular finish line this July. As it happens, Sanford's arrival on the D.C. circuit came two years after "Gannon" started floating out Bushista talking points--including the poisonous notion that CIA operative VALERIE PLAME's name was common knowledge, and therefore outing her was not a crime.

All of which made it all the more sublimely symmetrical that Sanford managed to circle neatly back to the Plame affair with his very first question, nicely fingering KARL ROVE along the way--as he wondered aloud if the whole mess added up to, well, treason. Or to quote Sanford directly from the July 25, 2005, White House press conference transcript: "There has been a lot of speculation concerning the meaning of the underlying statute and the grand jury investigation concerning Mr. Rove. The question is, have the legal counsel to the White House or White House staff reviewed the statute in sufficient specificity to determine whether a violation of that statute would, in effect, constitute treason?"

According to notes on the blogosphere, this was the first time since the Plame leak two years earlier that the T-word got dropped. And according to Sanford, this unexpected bombing led a flustered press secretary SCOTT MCCLELLAND to shut down the conference after rebuffing his query with the typical White House wafflespeak, namely, "I think, in terms of decisions regarding the investigation, those are matters for those overseeing the investigation to decide."

SNIP

[LTR]

45. Here's another thread about it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2983854&mesg_id=2983854

[BluePatriot]

55. "Suicide," right....

[madeline_con]

60. Were witneses asked if he was screaming in terror?

Just wondering...

[jabeguy]

62. Disclosure Project --> JFK: assassinated b4 truth on peaceful ETs speech

Yes, thats right: peaceful ETs. He was about ready to disclose peaceful ET information. But human black-operations got to him first of course. Very tightly kept information for years. But you must have an open-enough mind to accept that ETs are probably truly not here to harm, but rather to help. (ie- moon nuclear bomb was disabled by ETs to protect both us and them.) Yes, I believe we landed on the moon...I'm no theorist here. Just giving you what has been said by Greer. Marilyn Monroe was killed for also knowing too much in this conspiracy to cover-up ET truth.

Read first few chapters of Dr. Steven Greer's book "Hidden Truth - Forbidden Knowledge" here: http://www.disclosureproject.org/hiddentruth.htm

I highly recommend just buying the dang book. Get educated on this stuff. Its a bigger cover-up than 911. However, 911 exposure will absolutely HELP in bringing such corporate-controlled media and CIA black operations to a halt because everyone will understand that its not in our (the people's) best interest.

Take care ALL. Namaste.

[Rex]

63. Wow. Sounds like the guy who jumped from the top of Foggy Bottom.

Just stopped to take his shoes off first. Ya know, standard spy stuff. Nothing to see here. Move along citizen.

[Initech]

69. When I first heard about this, I definitely didn't buy the suicide angle.

There's some serious foul play here.

[AikidoSoul]

70. What else was this guy doing that threatened Busheviks--who are capable of anything

You don't know what else he was doing that might threaten the dynasty-- or anyone else for that matter. His record shows he was into a lot of things and he covered a terrific amount of territory. There could be multiple reasons for murdering him -- but with such a narrow window into his life -- speculation as to why he may have been murdered are useless because we're running on nearly empty regarding his history and what he was into.

His pacing up and down a hallway make me think he was waiting for someone to show up. All reports indicate he was a happy, active and successful person who loved his family very much --not a likely suicide victim.

[AptosDem]

72. Paul and Paula are my neighbors

They live across the street, more like a driveway, from me.

He leaves a wonderful family behind. His son, Clayton, was the first to meet the wife and I as we pulled up to our new home with the moving van. Clayton is the unofficial 'Jason Court Mayor'. Paula is a real sweetheart who cycles various anti-Bush bumper stickers on her minivan and during elections she always has yard signs supporting the progressive candidates and propositions.

I have only interacted with Paul on a very few occasions. I only saw him during our block parties/BBQ's and a going away party for one of our neighbors.
I didn't know who he really was until reading this thread.

I'm no tinfoiler but his 'suicide', to me, is very suspicious. He just had some remodeling done to his home in November and he and Paula seemed truly happy and excited about the new changes to their home.

I haven't talked to Paula yet, I just heard about this from another neighbor yesterday, but when the time is right I'll give her my condolences. The family has requested that no flowers be sent and there will be no public service.

IMO, there is no way that Paul would do this to his beautiful family, but then, I have never contemplated suicide myself.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

75. Thank You For The Firsthand Info

Welcome To DU!! Your input is much appreciated.

Condolences to the surviving family.

[Jcrowley]

77. Thank you for that report

I have yet to see any follow-up so of you hear mre in the next few days/weeks please pass it along.

[StrictlyRockers]

78. I lived in Aptos for 27 years. Thank you for the information on Paul.

I am determined to personally do more digging on this to get to the bottom of it. I suspect that this was not a suicide in any way shape or form. Information is power.

Thanks again.

SR

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. Do You Believe The Absurdity The The BFEE Did It?

If so, can you provide your line of thinking?

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tsiyu]

88. Welcome to DU

and I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your neighbor. My heart goes out to his family as well.

Your insight is very valuable here, and I appreciate your sharing this info. Please give our condolences from DU if you don't mind. He was a hero to many of us for speaking his mind.


bhg

[RevolutionStartsNow]

95. Hi AptosDem!

I'm an Aptos Dem, too! You might see my car, it's a black Lexus Hybrid with the fading "Obama/Earle '08" sticker and a brand new "Impeach Cheney First" sticker on it. Honk and wave if you see me! :hi:

[caligirl]

106. We are in the area as well. Moved here from the east bay in Oct.

I read the same and based onwhat has happened to other people whoi cross the Bush family I too was suspicious. But I am not sure it isn't a suicide. considering it is, he may have felt shame or wanted a great deal of distance from those he knew, not something someone suffering from depression might let on about. Or if he had made up his mind he may have felt some relief in thinking his suffering would end soon. Projects are a distraction from the issues he may have had on his mind, I wouldn't think that points to a non suicide. Its one way of maintaining the facade of a perfect world that isn't really so perfect for any number of reasons such as professional problems due to Bush

[fooj]

119. Welcome to DU. Thank you for sharing with us.

I'm a La Selva Beach democrat...we're neighbors. I don't buy the "suicide" story either. Just doesn't add up.

[helderheid]

121. Welcome to DU, albeit under such horrible circumstances.

I used to live in Aptos.

[LSK]

91. the cats out of the bag on this and isnt exactly a top story, so why now???

Why not in 2005??? Why not during fitzmas? Why not before the Dem takeover of Congress?

WHY NOW?

[Raine]

94. "Suicide"... Oh sure

NOT! :think:

[GETPLANING]

97. Just another death of an enemy of the Bush Cartel

There are dozens of people who have died in unusual circumstances around the Bush family and their syndicate.

[Fovea]

98. A time honored tradition

falling out of windows.
Doesn't it just make you all nostalgic for the sixties?

[followthemoney]

99. Bush is in competition with Putin for journalist kills.

Mark another one for Bush.

[LeftCoast]

100. Um...why would Bush off this guy and not Helen Thomas?

Or Sy Hersh?

[onenote]

105. or madsen or kos or pitt or god knows who else

maybe because its just a bunch of tinfoil?

[LeftCoast]

107. The saddest thing is that a bunch of the believers will now be convinced

that we're part of the conspiracy. :)

[petgoat]

114. Because he can't get away with offing the others. nt

[Garbo 2004]

118. Some people think he/they got away with offing a US Senator (Wellstone). But you think he can't

can't get away with offing actual journalists who have a long established public record of dissent and criticism? So he has to settle for an attorney whose apparent only public act of journalism is asking a question at a WH presser with Scotty?

[petgoat]

124. The murder of a peripheral figure to send a message has been

used by organized crime families before.

It's relatively safe to do so, since no rational person would ever
connect the murder of an airline flight attendant with her well-connected
lover. :sarcasm:

[The Backlash Cometh]

104. What was the New York Times editor, who also jumped from a building,

investigating? Does anybody remember?

[Quantess]

122. Wow. Very interesting, indeed.

:scared: