Do you actually believe Obama is more electable than Hillary in the general election?

[Herman Munster]

If you do, you have no idea how deeply racist this country really is. I choose to surround myself with democrats in my personal and family life for the most part but if I had to cut off every person who ever said a racist comment or joke to me I would be living alone in a monastery somewhere in Siberia. Get someone in a small group setting with the PC veil lifted and some boos in them and you wouldn't believe the racist shit that spews from seemingly thoughtful rational intelligent people.

Doesn't matter where they are. North. South. East. West. Doesn't matter their skin color. I've experienced this everywhere and from everyone mostly FROM DEMOCRATS since those are the people I choose to associate myself with.

People are people. And it's hard-wired genetically into people probably from the cave man days as a survival instinct to be fearful of people unlike themselves.

You add $500 million of racist negative campaign advertising from republicans who only have to reinforce the prejudices most people already have had since birth and you get a McCain or Giuliani winning by a landslide.

That doesn't mean he shouldn't try. Everyone is entitled to run for president. But find another reason to support him other than he is not Hillary and Hillary can't win the general election.

Cause Obama can't either.

[mnhtnbb]

1. Edwards is the Republicans' nightmare in 08. He talks Christianity

[illinoisprogressive]

15. Actually no.

edwards is not very scarry to them. They ran against him once. They know him and he is not scary to them. They know how to hit him.

[mnhtnbb]

25. He wasn't at the top of the ticket before. Believe me, he'll draw crowds in the south.

[samplegirl]

34. and hes a Southerner!

[Kagemusha]

2. I'd rather take a chance on Obama proving you wrong

because that hope stuff really is audacious in modern, cynical to the extreme America.

[Bitwit1234]

3. People won't vote for him because

they know, that no matter how good a president he might make, he would not get voted in, so they will vote for someone else, they think has more of a chance.

[Telly Savalas]

33. Only if those people buy into the bullshit being propagated by threads like this one.

[Critters2]

4. A friend recently pointed out that white America feels safe with

certain blacks--namely those who do not trace their roots to the historic slave experience. Long story short, he thinks Obama is electable, just as Colin Powell was respected in his positions, because his family did not come out of the deep South, don't speak with "an accent", and in general don't make white America uncomfortable the way mot African Americans do.

I think he's onto something.

[Herman Munster]

5. that may be true

but Obama has something in his background that is even worse from an electability standpoint than black skin.

That's Muslim blood.

The republicans have already started branding "him." You'll hear it $500 million times....

Barack Hussien Obama.
Barack Hussien Obama.
Barack Hussien Obama.
Barack Hussien Obama.
Barack Hussien Obama.
Barack Hussien Obama.
Barack Hussien Obama.
Barack Hussien Obama.
Barack Hussien Obama.

[TwilightZone]

10. Well, perhaps unending repetition will render it powerless.

Oh, and "$500 million times"? What does money have to do with it?

/sarcasm

[Telly Savalas]

30. So knuckledraggers won't vote for him.

Good.

Fuck 'em. We don't need their votes.

We can win without them, despite your purely anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

Or do you think it's necessary to court racist scum? Would running a white guy be sufficient? Or should we burn crosses in people's yards to drum up support? David Duke ran for office as a Democrat in the past. Should we start a Draft Duke '08 campaign?

[OKNancy]

9. LOL - your friend heard that on an NPR show ( Steven Barnes)

A young black essayist said the exact same thing.

Edit:
a quick google brought up this

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6610034

Commentary
Obama's Future, Free of an American Past?
by Steven Barnes

All Things Considered, December 11, 2006 · Commentator Steven Barnes argues that one of the reasons Sen. Barack Obama could be such an appealing candidate is that he doesn't carry the cultural baggage of slavery, since his father was an immigrant to the United States.

[Critters2]

13. Probably. My friend (another pastor in town) is an NPR junkie

and a good guy. If he'd put it in writing, I trust he would have footnoted it :)

[karlrschneider]

6. The truth is that he would have a snowball's chance in hell.

It sucks but it's true. As much as I hate to say it, there aren't 1 in 100 people around where I live who would ever vote for a (as they would say, a 'nigger'...I use the word here only to demonstrate that it's in common usage in my neighborhood - my efforts to stop that usage haven't been very productive so far.)

[Telly Savalas]

31. Which candidate would put Oklahoma in play then?

Maybe we can convince Sam Brownback to switch parties.

[pa28]

7. The primary will do it's work.

I trust Democrats to give us the strongest candidate and I'd rather not factor my own pick based on what the racists will do. If there are really that many racists in our own party he won't be nominated to begin with.

[Moochy]

8. This reminds me of the polling question

Often times people when polled will answer in the way that they think will please the questioner. When people were asked if they thought that Hilary could be the first woman president, that many answered that they would vote for her, but they often replied that they thought everyone else would not vote for her because of their sexism.

I think there is a dynamic at work here, where people project their idealized self when polled on an issue that includes sexism or racism and then they assume that everyone else in society are the sexists and the racists, and conclude that Hilary or Obama are unelectable.

As to what I believe I'm on the fence with both of the candidates you mention.

[daleo]

23. Social desirability bias

People often say things to pollsters that they consider to be socially desirable, rather than the truth. When it comes to polls concerning matters of race, sex, money or religion one has to bear this in mind.

[Moochy]

35. Ah thats what the statisticians call it.

Thanks, that's a good term to know, I vaguely recall learning abut survey biases back in undergraduate statistics. :)

[daleo]

40. I know it's just jargon

But it is one of those jargon terms that sums up a lot (to me, anyway).

[HockeyMom]

11. Then Condi wouldn't stand a chance in Hell

Black AND Female. Everything you have said about race, can also be said about gender, when it comes right down to it.

[A Simple Game]

38. Condi is also an idiot, but of course that didn't stop her boss.

I feel that any female candidate has a potential 50% of the vote, this includes Hillary.

Even Ralph Rednecks' wife when in the booth with no one to see how she votes could have an "I think a woman could do a better job", and "Ralph will never know", moment.

[KoKo]

12. Obama replaces Jesse as the New Voice for Rainbow Coalition and besides

he is like JFK and Bobby Kennedy.

Why shouldn't he be the front runner and choose John Edwards as his running mate? :shrugh:

[illinoisprogressive]

14. In Southern Illinois he was huge - and that's like the deep south

I live in northern illinois. During the 04 campaign Obama was huge there. He was running at high numbers and mobbed down there. There were white good ol boys down there who thought he was the greatest thing ever.
Southern Illinois is the south. It's not border state like but, it's like alabama or mississippi.
So, yes I do think he can get elected and is more electable than Hillary.

[Herman Munster]

16. he was running against a nutjob

I don't give much credit to his winning the senate or Hillary winning 67% in new york for that matter. They haven't had a real race.

[Critters2]

18. True enough. Keyes--hardly a viable candidate. nt

[Herman Munster]

20. obama also basically won the primary by default

his primary candidates for the senate imploded with sexual problems.

[Critters2]

24. I guess I heard that. I wasn't in Illinois at the time.

He's UCC (a member of my denomination) and I get completely sick of our Conference Minister going on and on about him. I doubt she knows anything about his record, just that "one of us" might be president. It's enough, already!

[Raskolnik]

41. That's not really accurate.

Blair Hull's problems notwithstanding, Obama still won over 50% of the vote in a seven candidate race, which included Dan Hynes.

"Default" it wasn't.

[Critters2]

17. Where in Illinois was this, exactly?

Just curious. I've always been amused when Chicagoans call Central Illinois "southern".

[illinoisprogressive]

22. Like Peru IL. and he ran against Jack Ryan first

He was running against the gop golden boy Ryan who's campaign imploded by scandal and at the time Obama was running 60% ahead. It took amonth to find someone to replace jack ryan

[Critters2]

26. You consider Peru Southern Illinois???!!!!! Do you own a map?!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh, God. I'm laughing so hard it hurts. I assumed you were at least talking about Effingham!!!

Peru is southern Illinois!!!! No, Peru is NORTH CENTRAL Illinois.

And hardly the deep south. LaSalle County was a hotbed of abolitionism before the Civil War, and deeply proud of that heritage. The church I serve was formed by abolitionists and underground railroad workers...here in the "Deep South".

God. Chicagoans are so provincial. You should visit Illinois some time.

[WI_DEM]

19. Yes.

[WinkyDink]

21. I don't think either is. This IS America we're talking about, right?

[Telly Savalas]

32. That's right. We're a bunch of backwards fucks.

Why even try?

[LWolf]

27. I don't believe in the "electable" demon that selects

or rejects candidates based on media spin. I think most candidates are "electable" at the right time and with the right campaign, and I don't reject a good candidate based on how the media might "spin" them.

I think it is voters' responsibility to educate themselves beyond media spin, and each campaign's responsibility to make sure that they get enough good information to do so. I also think it is every citizen's responsibility to demand fair media coverage for all candidates, or to quit supporting media that doesn't do that. How many people are willing to never turn on tv news or talk shows again?

I think Obama is as electable as any other candidate, with the right campaign. I think that there are plenty of Democrats willing to play the race card to label him "unelectable," and I won't participate in that. He is not my choice, and he won't get my vote, but it has nothing to do with race, and if enough people support his vision he is as electable as any other candidate.

[David__77]

28. The country is misogynist too.

H. Clinton is not necessarily electable due to her gender. I know at least one woman who would never vote for a woman for president.

[alarimer]

29. I'd prefer a true progressive over either of them

But they both still have to go through the primary process. What I hate is that the media has annointed Obama as the second coming or something (for right now). I am concerned that this will prevent other, better candidates from running for lack of funds.

[illinoisprogressive]

36. That is just it

Some won't vote for Obama or Hillary simply because they don't agree or like them. It has nothing to do with race or gender. We have to understand that many won't vote for either because they are democrats. I believe Ford lost due to party rather than race. Dems have been demonized for the past decade and that plays a huge role.
I think if the right person for the job is there they will get elected regardless.

[billbuckhead]

37. Why take a chance when a white southern guy would easily win?

Wesley Clark would destroy the Republicans from coast to coast, that's why the media ignores him. Can't Obama wait on the bench till we fix our voting machines?

[mnhtnbb]

39. "media has annointed Obama as the second coming". The media LOVES

to fuck with candidates. They gave Dean all kinds of attention and then ripped him apart with great zest. They'll do the same thing to Obama--
they're just waiting for the opportunity.

[Critters2]

42. The media had help from the DLC in what they did to Dean. nt