If faced with a gun and a demand for sex

[dsc]

you do what you need to do, regardless of gender. I never faced that choice. I did face "give us bj's or we will beat you up". I gave the bj's. I am not proud of that. Maybe I should have made them beat me up first. But you do what you have to do. The aftermath may well be worse for men but the decision is the same. You choose life. To say anything else, is bravado pure and simple. Anyone who made that choice did the right thing, and shouldn't have to justify having done so.

[DesertRat]

1. Agreed. n/t

[Mz Pip]

2. I don't know what I'd do

I'd probably be dead, but the guy demanding the BJ would spend the rest of his life peeing stting down.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[BOSSHOG]

6. I recall

the Tim Robbins character in Shawshank Redemption when the Warden sicked the "sodomites" on him. They beat him up and were getting ready to sexually assault him. He said anything goes into my mouth gets bitten off. Nothing went in his mouth.

[renie408]

3. Wait...what?

Pride is a damn stupid thing to risk your life over.

No, neither you nor anyone else in the position you found yourself in should have to justify themselves. Anybody who says they would choose differently is blowing smoke.

[derby378]

4. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees

I'm not blaming you. But what you seem to be advocating is capitulation.

Here's another option: have enough confidence in yourself to stomp the living shit out of that would-be rapist.

Doesn't sound very Quaker of me, I know, but you do what you gotta do.

[lukasahero]

8. "Here's another option: have enough confidence in yourself"

Perhaps you missed the use of the word "us" in the OP's post. So, did he just need confidence to beat them all up? What about someone like me who is 5'2" and weighs 110 lbs? Do I just need confidence?

Please, consider how what you are suggesting sounds as well.

[MadHound]

15. When defending oneself, size doesn't matter,

The knowledge in how to do so, and the courage to carry it through does. Have you ever thought about taking any martial arts? You would quickly find out that being small has many advantages.

I first started taking martial arts in elementary school, when I moved to a new school and was getting the crap beaten out of me. The knowledge and confidence that such studies gave me have been invaluable in my life, literally saving it on more than one occaission.

And stop using your size as an excuse friend. I'm 6'5", and my nightmare scenario is going up against somebody your size. You are quicker, more agile, and once you are inside my defensive radius, you can wreak havoc. Stop selling yourself short OK(no pun intended).

[lukasahero]

21. Guess it still boils down to the victim's fault.

I suppose it would have been better if I just let him kill me. At least then it wouldn't have been my fault and I wouldn't have to use "an excuse".

[Left Is Write]

25. ...

:hug:

I'm small too. I didn't realize I needed an "excuse" for not fighting back against the person who raped me - but then, the "blame the victim" mentality was why I didn't report it in the first place. I'm sorry you were there too.

[lukasahero]

27. ...

Right back at you too :hug:

I'm sorry you've been there, too.

[MadHound]

28. Umm, sorry, but I'm not blaming you OK, I don't blame victims

I'm simply offering a suggestion for you to take or leave, and some advice from personal experience OK. Where in my post did I say anything about blaming you for anything:shrug:

Sorry if I touched a nerve inadvertently, I'll be leaving now:yoiks:

[Left Is Write]

31. You suggested she "stop using [her] size as an excuse" -

that implies she did something she needs to be excused for. I read it the same way.

[bicentennial_baby]

34. As did I

x(

[pitohui]

69. me three

as far as i'm concerned someone who stands 6 foot 5 never has ANY reason to talk about size in this society with someone 5 feet 2


don't tell me about life as a short person if you are not short

[Pavulon]

62. The most effective defense..

is situational awareness. Not being in a situation is the best defense. And while children may fight in the playground adults use deadly force to settle these types of situations.

If a person is going to inflict violence on you a physical fight is not an option. Killing them dead with a weapon is.

[pitohui]

67. what absolute horse shit

i'm short too, old as well, no one your size finds someone my size their absolute nightmare and most rapists and serial killers do not sit on their hands waiting for someone my size to take years of martial arts lessons so it will be a fair fight

in the end, your body betrays you

if you think only young healthy people are raped, and that if only the victim had trained and studied enough she wouldn't have been raped, i call foul -- i have personal knowledge of an older woman who was gang-raped and i see reports in the press all the time of women being raped even into their 70s and 80s

fat lot of good martial arts horse hockey is going to do for the majority of us who are not in the peak of training and the prime of life


martial arts is for most people at most stages of life a fraud

and i did study when younger, briefly, until it became apparent that it was quite useless for anything except exercise and i prefer other kinds of exercise

i don't care what some youngster in the process of growing to 6 feet 5 did to fend off rape, you have nothing real to say to the overwhelming majority of us, get real!

[Matariki]

95. may i say something here?

I'm a 5'2", 110 lb, 48 year old woman. I've been attacked more than once in my life. I don't want you to interpret this as me 'blaming the victim'. I realize that every situation is different and the best thing a person can do is keep themselves alive and relatively unhurt - whatever that requires. Any talk of 'should have' after the fact is out of place.

But I took MadHound's statement a bit differently. Maybe the choice of words weren't the best but advocating self defense is not a bad thing. For too long the cultural stereo-type of women being helpless, easy targets has been perpetuated. It makes women believe they will be hurt or killed if they try to resist or fight back - so they don't. It make rapists believe that women are 'easy pickings'. So when I see a woman arguing that she can't defend herself or that other women can't, it disturbs me a little.

[derby378]

18. I appreciate that

Not sure I have any answers here, but I'll definitely keep what you said in mind.

:hi:

[lukasahero]

23. Thanks

This is obviously an emotional subject and I apologize for my tone. FTR, I get what you're saying.

:hi: back at ya'. And thanks for not clobbering me for my snarkiness.

[Matariki]

70. I'm exactly the same height and weight as you

and i beat up the guy who broke into my house at 4am and tried to rape me. Then i stabbed him with the screw-driver I took from him. I also considered and decided against using the hatchet under my bed. The thing is - a person needs to sus out the situation. I had the advantage of a tremendous amount of adrenaline, but had he had a knife or gun it's hard to say what i would have done.

i've read that in many situations fighting back is actually a safer option than 'going along'. But it would depend.

To the OP - you shouldn't confuse 'pride' or shame with what happened. You were the victim of a crime - pride has nothing to do with it - and the shame falls one hundred percent on the perpetrators.

[Pavulon]

74. Agree but

I assume everyone here is an adult. If you are threatened by someone in your home, who is armed the proper response is not a hand to hand combat situation. It was fun throwing guys around in basic and it makes me think i was tough but the reality is you are gambling. I am in decent shape but there is no way I am getting into a physical fight with anyone. Either I have walked off or am backed into a corner where there is no option but to act, like you. However disarming someone with a weapon is not my first choice.

Why play the spread. If someone is in your home at night with a screwdriver they aren't their to tighten screws, dont use a hatchet, use a shotgun with #4 buckshot. Hatchets are for chopping wood, a pistol or shotgun is used to control a situation like the one you described. If they dont leave when you chamber a round into a pump shotgun they are insane and you have no choice but to fire.

As for regret the op should have none. They did what they had to do. However given the choice I am sure they would have rather sprayed someone with mace or shot them.

[Matariki]

81. I agree about the hatchet..

i realized that pulling the hatchet out was a big commitment - one i wasn't willing to make. But if you're pounced on while asleep in your bed - pulling out a gun isn't usually an option. I stayed calm and sussed out the situation - I was prepared to 'go along with it' if it meant survival, but when I discovered the guy had a screw driver something in me just went into fight mode - I wasn't thinking too much at that point. I think someone used the phrase 'situational awareness' down thread - I think that's a good concept. Fight mode isn't always going to save one's skin.


But i also want to say that society does a terrible disservice to women making us believe we can't fight back. It does a lot to perpetuate the myth that women are easy targets and makes women afraid to defend themselves. That's why I like to tell my little story.

on edit - oh, you used that phrase. good thought.

[Pavulon]

99. You are correct

women can and should fight with the same confidence as men. Mace can be kept handy and is not as big a commitment as a concealed weapon.

You did what you had to do, good.

Most people don't handicap situations very well. Drawing a gun when someone has the drop is not smart(etc). However if you are willing to take a chance you could catch someone unwilling to fight.

The one situation I was in was over with in seconds. There was no chance to second guess it. No harm, no foul. Other gang of guys had no idea what was going on.

I am a big fan of dogs. Even a little one that barks will keep you safe by alerting on someone in your space.

Bottom line is you were safe, a good thing.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

7. A professor pointed this out to our English 1A class

She had been victimized. And she was right.

[Mandate My Ass]

9. Very few rapes are as confrontational as that scenario

Most rapists want to violate and don't ask your permission or give you a choice of gunshot vs. physical violation. It's all about taking without asking permission.

What happened to you was definitely sexual assault, no questions asked and no blame belongs to you. From stories I've heard in rape group support sessions, most people didn't know what was coming until it was too late and it was involuntary from start to finish. All but one knew her attacker and wasn't on defense, something rapists count on. There is no "line" after which if the person gets raped it was because of capitulation.

I hope you are healed from what happened to you.

[Skidmore]

12. Sometimes all it takes is an age differential or the perception that

the person making the demand can do you harm if you aren't compliant. It is an act committed by someone exerting power over a person they percieve to be weaker or who they have objectified.

[chefgirl]

10. Go easier on yourself, please

I gave the bj's. I am not proud of that.

Let me just say, you have NOTHING not to be proud of. You did what you had to do to get out of the situation (relatively) unharmed.

My experience was very different, in that it began consentually, and when it became apparent that the dynamic of the situation had changed, and I told him to stop, he didnt. Not only did he not stop, he became rather violent too.

My decision was not to fight it. I CHOSE to look at it as giving up nothing more important than a piece of ass. (vulgar expression, but necessary for justifying my decision to myself) He got nothing more from me than that..by MY choice. The LAST thing I was going to let him take from me was my self respect.

Yes, we all do what we have to do in the moment, and as I was told by a counselor once, years earlier, "Whatever you feel you have to do to walk away unscathed is the RIGHT decision".

Perhaps its just part of the male psyche to bluster and boast about how they would fight to the death, or perhaps its part of the male psyche to 'actually' fight to the death. :shrug:

The fact remains, though, we do what we feel we have to, or what we feel we can live with, in the moment, and no one has the right to judge any of us for that decision.

-chef-

[Horse with no Name]

58. You are right.

I don't condemn anyone for their feelings, but I have been in a situation like you describe.
I gave up a piece of ass and nothing else.
That is how I chose to deal with it.
Not to condescend to those who aren't able to deal with it that way.
However, it has relegated sex to me as nothing more than a means of gratification with no other feelings attached to it--least of all being in love.

[dsc]

59. I agree

I just kind of went somewhere else while it was going on. Things can change quickly and once they do your choices are limited.

[k_jerome]

11. everyone talks a big game. when faced with reality it is completely different. nt.

[jobycom]

13. Seems self-evident. Did I miss a story that this is a response to? nt

[BattyDem]

22. I must have missed it, too

This is the second thread I've seen about this. I don't know what inspired these threads, but I do know this: ANYONE who suggests that someone who has been raped should have reacted differently, fought back and/or otherwise did something to prevent the attack is blaming the victim and should be ashamed of themselves!

Every man I have ever met has said they would never allow it to happen (as if women acutally have a choice in the matter), they would fight back, they would rather die, etc. HOWEVER, we all know that reality is very different than a hypothetical scenario. NO ONE can ever truly know how they would react or what they would do in that situation.

[tigereye]

101. thank you

Many people are in shock and amazement when this happens to them and no one knows how she or he will react. Hopefully, many people will fight back, but that is not always the case, and there is no blame attached to that.

[lukasahero]

26. Yes, you did

There is a serial rapist in Texas targeting young men. The story and reactions to it here have raised hackles.

[BattyDem]

29. Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard about that.

What the hell is the difference if the VICTIM is male or female? It's still a crime and an innocent human being was attacked for no reason. As I said in my post above: ANYONE who suggests that someone who has been raped should have reacted differently, fought back and/or otherwise did something to prevent the attack is blaming the victim and should be ashamed of themselves! :grr:

[pitohui]

68. i hadn't heard it either, they just arrested another in louisiana last month or so

this man had been in business for over a decade and killed over 20 men, not just young men either, some middle-aged, he had a variety of tricks for getting them tied up -- he killed them when he was done with them

seems like there is a lot of this crap going around

i hope they catch the sob soon and all like him

[trumad]

14. It depends...it really does

if it's a gang...then OK... you might not have a choice.

If it's one dude then maybe becuase me-thinks you could get the drop on him.

[hashibabba]

19. That's a good way to get yourself killed. Not only because they

may be much stronger, but because they could also have some kind of weapon. The possibility of being killed may keep women from actually fighting back. That certainly makes sense to me!

Edited to say: I'm sorry, I was just seeing it from a woman's point of view. I don't know what I'd do if I were a man, but I don't think I'd get myself killed over a rape. Who knows. I haven't walked a mile in those shoes.

[trumad]

24. I said if it's a gang...then you have no choice but to submit..

If it's one guy... then I say look for the possibilities of taking him down.. and that's from a mans point of view.

[sniffa]

36. oh you're so brave

bestiLL my heart.
i thought you were just an internet tuff, but now i see you're a reaL, fLesh and bones tuff. :loveya:

and how generous of you to beLittLe the experience of others.

[trumad]

49. Oh Jesus christ...

First off.... show me where I belittled the experience of others... you can't.

Second: Yeah--- I am fucking brave...so the fuck what. Is that a bad thing. Would you prefer me not to be brave?

With that said, I'm not stupid. If I can't win...and I know I'm about to die if I make the wrong move... I'll do what I can to live only to fight another day. If that means submit...I'll submit.

But if I got a chance to take the mofo down.. I'll take him down.

Is there something wrong with that?

[Pavulon]

63. A "gang" automatically meets deadly force

requirements in my state. An impending attack by two or more allows a person to draw and fire a weapon with no warning.

Now not being in that situation I can not swear to it but I am pretty sure the remaining persons standing there deaf watching their fellow attacker bleed out are going to leave. If not, most firearms have at least six rounds to fire.

Seriously, group attacks are becoming more common. If you are pinned in, run over someone with your car, do whatever it takes. In my book and under the law that includes shooting another person.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. what the fuck is wrong with you...who the fuck gets raped out of choice?

[MonkeyFunk]

102. Who said that?

It was a choice between resisting or complying. Nobody suggested somebody chose to get raped. "What the fuck is wrong with you?", indeed!

[dsc]

54. Sometimes you can and sometimes you can't

I don't know about these Texas cases but am presuming that this person relies upon both surprise and fear of the gun to get his way. I would rather be alive and raped than dead and raped. Just saying.

[William769]

16. What brought this on?

My answer would be, I'd kill the SOB but thats just me. The person in that situation would have to judge for them self what to do.

[MrSlayer]

17. The perp has to get close to receive the sex.

And all I need is the fucker in arm's reach to disarm and kill him. Most street thugs have no idea how to handle a gun.

[NashVegas]

20. I'd Probably Do Something Stupid, Like Fight

As a result of growing up in an abusive atmosphere, getting the hell away and getting damn pissed off about it. My 'fight or flight' mechanism has lately been pretty healthy. 'Stand there and take it,' doesn't feel like an option.

[Pastiche423]

52. I fought

Was actually surprised that I did (afterwards).

No one knows what they would do until they are actually in the situation.

If I could have a do over, the man that put me in this chair would be dickless.

[haele]

30. You have to do what you can do...

Most people aren't martial arts masters who can react instantly, take on multiple attackers (who, will, of course politely attack one on one) or disarm an attacker with one blow. That's no shame in that. There's no shame in being overwhelmed, taken by surprise, or have a bad reaction day, either. Even professional athletes and "warriors" (martial artists, trained police and military members) experience that.
You do what you can to survive. Anyone who says "you should be able to disarm someone when they're close up" is just as stupid about the different components that make up the anatomy of any one violent attack as someone who says "if you only had a gun, you could shoot the mugger before he got you..."

It's all situational. Sometimes having the gun is a good thing. Sometimes, it's a bad thing - when you get it taken away from you during the fight and subsequently get your ass shot with your own gun as well as getting beaten, robbed, and raped.
Sometimes, the person attacking you was stupid enough to work up to an "in your face" confrontation and/or you have enough time to mount a defense - or even better, an offense. Sometimes, you have no time to react, the situation came out of "nowhere" and all you can do is hope to survive.

I've had self-defense and martial arts training. I and many of my friends, family, and other acquaintances have been in situations where it came down to my reactions and subsequent action, either fight, endure, or flight. I've been lucky. Some of my friends have not been.

It's all situational. And there's absolutely no shame in surviving - indeed, IMO, just surviving an attack is in itself a badge of honor to be proud of.

Haele

[etherealtruth]

32. Survival

Regardless of gender, you do what you need to do to survive.

dsc, you are very brave. You survived a horrible situation and you share your experiences to give perspective (courage) to others.

[slackmaster]

33. Sorry about your experience dsc, hard to answer without being there

My self-defense training has all said to fight back if there is any possible opening.

ETA instructors have noted that there isn't always a possible opening. Best reaction depends on the exact curcumstances and what you are able and willing to do. Training can improve your odds of winning, but you cannot win in every situation.

The assailants have given you no good reason to think they aren't going to kill you even if you comply, and they might be HIV positive.

You choose life. To say anything else, is bravado pure and simple. Anyone who made that choice did the right thing, and shouldn't have to justify having done so.

I can't dispute that statement.

[Arkansas Granny]

35. I've never been in that situation, but I've always thought that if the

person who threatened me didn't have a weapon, they would have a fight on their hands. If a weapon was involved, or if the risk of bodily harm appeared too great, I would probably acquiesce and hope they didn't hurt me afterward. Hopefully, I'll never have to make that choice and I'm very sorry that you had to.

[dsc]

37. I can't edit

so to answer some people. It was three on one and we were in a group shower area so we were all undressed. They were both bigger and older than I was and at first I thought it was just joking around by the time it turned serious I didn't see a way out aside from cooperation.

[lukasahero]

40. dsc, you shouldn't have to edit

And you shouldn't have to justify your actions to anyone - ever. You did what had to do. Please don't let the blowhard bravado types here make you feel guilt or shame for what happened - YOU did nothing wrong.

People like to think they know how they would react to such a situation because it makes them feel safe. I hope they never have to learn that about themselves.

[VelmaD]

41. what you said

dsc,

Don't let the macho posturing get to you. It's all chest-thumping bullshit just to make them feel like they aren't vulnerable. You are the really brave one because you were willing to open up and be vulnerable and talk about what happened to you. :hug:

[Mandate My Ass]

42. Yes, rapists like to keep up the facade of normalcy until it's too late

You weren't confronted until you were totally cornered and outnumbered. This is standard MO for creeps who prey on people sexually.

Thank you for starting a thread that actually generated some understanding on the matter and sharing intensely personal information in order to enlighten and not posture.

[slackmaster]

47. Maybe next time you can be better prepared for such an event

;-)

ETA sounds like you had no choice but to do what you did.

[dsc]

48. I am not a gun person

my vision without glasses is poor and I would be more likely to shoot myself in all probability.

[slackmaster]

55. My reply was meant to be as absurd as possible

Obviously even if you were a "gun person", a Glock sealed in heat-shrink would have been worse than useless to you.

The sculpture and photo were created by someone on a survivalist forum, poking fun at people who feel they MUST have a loaded gun within arm's reach at all times.

[Nikki Stone1]

57. Actually, I support the right of a rape victim to carry a concealed weapon if the rapist gets parole

Especially if it was the victim's evidence that put the rapist behind bars and the rapist has threatened witnesses against him. That's one of the few instances where I do support concealed weapons laws.

[LostinVA]

71. Shame on the people who think you should explain yourself

By questioning you, something insidious is being implied. The same thing that women have been getting for millenia.

NEVER feel you have to explain yourself. You've done nothing wrong.

[ThomCat]

38. Agreed. First priority, make sure you survive.

Second priority, make sure you heal. Third priority, get the bastards any way you can.

[qwlauren35]

39. I don't know.

I think I'd give a lot of consideration to running, kicking and screaming. Because someone who has a gun may probably plan to kill me anyway... and I'm not sure I'm ready to die.

[NorthernSpy]

43. my plan is to bite

Deep bites by humans nearly always become seriously infected. I figure the bad guy will either die later from blood poisoning, or go to the hospital and thus make capture likely.


So I will win in the end.

[One_Life_To_Give]

44. Since men are victims 20%

Since 1 in 5 rapes is perpetrated against men. Statistically they suffer the crime and then never tell anyone about it. Don't know the actual rate but Suicide amongst male victims is significantly higher for men than for women who have been victimized.

[Nikki Stone1]

46. I'm not surprised.

Men are not usually encouraged to get help.

[Matariki]

73. not only that but the irrational 'shame' attached for not being 'tough' enough.

as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread.

[Nikki Stone1]

45. All situations are different --as are people

Some folks completely shut down in an emergency. It is a biological response. I had a friend like this who would freeze during frightening situations, completely unable to move. For someone like her, fighting back wasn't even an option, no matter what the situation. On the other hand, some folks always respond aggressively, which can sometimes be valuable and sometimes get you killed. A lot depends on the situation, your ability to get away, the kind of weapon used, how many assailants are involved, etc. In the final analysis, you do whatever keeps you alive.

I remember two cases of assault against women that happened just outside a building where I was living. The first involved a female visitor to the building who was attacked by a potential rapist with a knife in the parking lot. (His threats made it clear that his intent was rape at knife point). The woman managed to wrestle the knife out of his hand and he ran away. She reported him to our building's security people, though nothing was done to warn the rest of us. WIthin days, this guy (or someone with the same description and MO) went after a female building resident and did in fact rape her at knife point. She tried to run and to fight back but he pushed her into a car and had the knife to her throat before she could get out of the car. At that point, her best option, the one that kept her alive, was to go along. I remember hearing her screaming on the street AFTER the rape. (A bunch of us were on the upper floors of our building and ran down, but by then it was too late.)

For any lurkers who might think this is some made up story, I assure that not only it happened but that there was an out of court settlement that came out of it because of the negligence of the security personnel. The rapes occurred in the winter of 1988. I did not know either young woman personally, though the second one was moving out of our building that night, and was putting stuff into her car when she was attacked. I became involved in security concerns after that, especially after hearing that the first attack (the one on the visitor) had been reported to security but the residents in the building had not been told about it.

Ultimately, you cannot know what your response would be to any crime until you are in the situation. This goes for males as well. I know there are some lurkers who are making fun of people's personal rape stories on this board, calling them lies, or demeaning the victims who had to make the toughest choice a crime victim can have to make. But, until you have had to live through this kind of thing, you really don't know.

I do know that rape is incredibly and horrifically common. Many in my circle of friends have been victims of rape and/or other kinds of sexual assault. This is not unusual or particular to my circle of friends. When women get to know other women well, they will often tell them about experiences, some of which they have never dealt with (ie with therapy or other counseling). I urge anyone who has been through a sexual assault to get therapeutic help as soon as possible. It is essential.

[havocmom]

50. If someone is threatening to harm you, stands to reason you are in danger

whether you co-operate or not.

As a self-defense coach said years ago: if someone holds a knife to your throat and says they 'will hurt you unless you go along' consider: THEY ARE ALREADY HURTING YOU! If your body is gonna be found in some ditch, may as well have some DNA evidence to offer up in the subsequent investigation.

Since rape is not about sex, but power, giving in is not much of a guarantee of safety. If someone rapes and still feels a hollow spot, what do you suppose will happen next?

Cases and people vary, but going along is probably a bad idea in most cases. Rapists tend to pick victims they think will cave. Surprise them. They may not want to leave any witness around anyway.

Me, I fight.

[Rosemary2205]

51. Been there done that.

And yes, I too am sick to death of blame the victim. Regardless of race, gender, age, size or the nature of the crime, etc. A victim is a VICTIM. People do what they have to do to survive and expecting ANY victim to justify their actions is assinine IMHO.

[Horse with no Name]

56. I agree.

I wouldn't think twice about it.

[Raine]

60. Survival

is most important thing. Sometimes to survive means giving in but sometimes it might involve having to fight. I've never had to make the choice but I would imagine the critical point is knowing which you have to do to survive the ordeal. No one should feel bad about either choice as long as you come out of it in one piece.

[Pavulon]

61. Situational Awareness, control..

The ability to control a situation should it become needed. faced with the prospect of violence on my person someone is not walking away from the situation.

[NorthernSpy]

65. that's a cute little thing...

Do you have one of those?

[Pavulon]

66. Wife does

she works at the hospital, which is in the per cap murder capitol of our state. I took the concealed course with her. I have a USP compact.

Concealed carry teaches more than just shooting. Situational awareness, the law regarding force, basically preventing a shooting.

But as cute as it is the 27 will shoot tight groups and put 4 2 shot groups (with a spare) on target right quick.

[dogday]

64. I had a gun pointed at me and the demand was

for cash. I was a teller at the time and I tell you what, I was so scared. I pulled the bait trap, even though he said not to, he could of killed me...

When the police arrested him, they had his gun, it was loaded with two shells spent....

Nobody knows what it feels like till it happens to you....

For the longest time, I was afraid to wait on people I did not know, I would get scared I was going to be robbed again... That feeling finally went away... But I will always remember that gun pointing at my face as long as I live.....

[Matariki]

72. You are so right - nobody knows til it happens to them

I had a friend robbed at gunpoint at the deli he worked at. Big, tough guy. He pissed his pants - literally. I'm surprised he related that fact. But then he was tough enough to not be ashamed at admitting being afraid ;-)

[Lipton64]

75. I don't mean to be rude but that really is a stupid question....

I'd do anything and everything in my power to bring the pervert down - even if it means going down with him/her.

[Connie_Corleone]

76. It's not stupid. Women have been told to do this for years.

It can be the same for men.

I would like to think that I would fight to the death, but no one knows what they'll do in that situation.

[Lipton64]

79. You have a point....

but it just illustrates my point - it's up to the individual what they will do to protect themselves. For me it's not even an issue but obviously some people have a problem being assertive against provocation in such circumstances.

Being raped by an AIDS infected man/woman can be a death sentence to you even if they don't decide to kill you on top of the rape.

Not to mention they may decide to "silence" you after the crime by driving you into the woods at gunpoint and then unloading into your skull to make sure you don't rat them out to the police.

I say one has the best chance of survival when one fights. If you think otherwise you of course are entitled to your opinion but I hope at least it made you think about it.

[dsc]

77. This was in response to a thread which got locked about the time I posted

Check page 2 or 3 maybe 4.

[Lipton64]

78. Locked?

I can post in this one now??

[dsc]

80. The thread that this thread is a response to was locked

I tried to respond on his tread but it was locked so I started this one. If you wish to see what I responded to you will have to look for that tread. In context it would become apparent why I posted this.

[Lipton64]

82. Okay. I apologize for the confusion nt

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

84. classy post

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

87. more class

I hope I am as classy as you when I grow up.

[karlrschneider]

91. Hang on another 10 years. You might be grown up by then.

...

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karlrschneider]

92. That's funny.

Grow up.

[piedmont]

100. Fixating on profiles again?

Your standard m.o. on this forum appears to be to pick out someone you disagree with and point out that they don't have "enough" info in their profile. Pretty creepy, and not at all persuasive. BTW, there is no DU policy on how much info one should enter in their profile, and it doesn't matter anyway. The validity of someone's posts can be evaluated wihout any profile info. So why the fixation on profiles, karl?

[mondo joe]

85. Well, that is rude indeed.

First off, not everyone has the same response.

Secondly, you don't know what your response would be, no matter what you think it would be.

If you were a parent of two young children would you be so willing to risk your life to take the pervert down, knowing you'd leave 2 young orphans?

[BlooInBloo]

88. The OP claimed that everyone would have the same response as well...

... was *that* rude?

[mondo joe]

89. I think it's a mistake to say there's only one response. We're individuals

with our own situations, our own priorities and our own choices.

[DocSavage]

93. With Concealed Carry

now available in a lot of states, you could drill the creeps. Nothing says get away like a colt 45.

[karlrschneider]

94. Kinda hard to conceal a .45 when yer nekkid...

...

[DocSavage]

97. yeah, but sporting one may keep you from getting naked

[karlrschneider]

98. Mebbe...but I generally get nekkid to take a shower.

YMMV...

[Pavulon]

104. My approach

that has evolved over time and that I passed on to my wife is simple:

Know who and what is going on around you. Situational awareness prevents 99.99% of this stuff.

Don't stop at shitty gas stations, rest stops, or poorly lit atms at night.
Own a dog.
If you have a problem run. Drive off, run off, whatever. Swallow you pride and leave.
Be non reactionary. When people cut me off and act like freaks I ignore them.
I don't talk shit or hang around when other people do.

However:
If left no choice the only way to handle a situation that has potential to become violent is with overwhelming force. I will not fistfight a man, I will not try to take him off his feet.

If someone comes past my dogs into my home they are there to do me harm, they are done.
If someone tries to grab my wife from her car or approaches it (with her in it) at night ( back side of the clock) they will most likely get shot.

My incident.

I had three guys try to jump me on a country road while moving a turtle(really). It came with in fractions of a second of a shooting. Most surreal thing ever, moving a box turtle and these guys start yelling and get out of their car. 3 guys spread out. Moved back towards my car door, dropped the turtle in the grass and started to my hip(jacket over pistol). I remember worrying the turtle would get away. They left, they never saw the pistol. After picking up the turtle and moving it I started thinking on the way home how close I came to shooting them. Very scary, no reason, no thought, just chaos for about 10 seconds. I almost never carry a pistol concealed.


I assume the other guy is playing for keeps.

[sweetheart]

96. n o .

.

[Solon]

103. dsc, pay no attention to the assholes on this thread, you do not need to justify the decision...

not to me, not to them, not to ANYONE. You live, you survive, you try to move on, if possible. In my case, I posted a thread about my experience here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2992088

Of course, my choice was removed by chemical means, but it doesn't negate your experience.

[Pavulon]

105. Exactly Right

no person has the insight to another persons state of mind. Everyone has their 2 cents but preaching to the OP here is out of line.

[pinto]

106. Locking.

We tried to leave this thread on the topic open, but it's become a flamefest.

Thanks.