You DO realize we won't change this madness without Civil Disobedience.

[rucky]

I know nobody relishes the thought of getting arrested, much less leaving our internets, but I think we're quickly exhausting our options of working within the system - especially when "the system" systematically changes the rules to quash the opposition more and more every single day.

OK, everybody's holding on hope 'til November- just like we all worked hard and waited patiently through the 2004 elections. But you DO know that - short of a miracle - nothing much will change in November except Halliburton will be closer to finishing those detention camps.

Some folks are resisting this option as much as possible and making every excuse possible to continue this charade known as participatory Democracy. It's understandable.

We've been on the road to full-blown facism for quite some time. You can't protest a facist government without being considered an enemy of the state. So what's going to happen when they amend the PATRIOT act this week to make dissent illegal? Are you willing to risk going to jail to fight this?

This isn't a rallying cry. I'm not expecting ANYBODY to say "Hell Yeah! Let's get arrested!" but it's something we need to do some serious soul searching about in the months to come.

[1620rock]

1. People in general will not take to the streets until there is a draft.

[Nay]

21. Agreed.

[KatyaR]

66. I don't agree. I think we've become so complacent as a nation that

we'd let a draft happen without much fuss. I think there might be some protests in the larger urban areas, but most of the country would just nod and go along with it 'cuz "our leader says we need to protect our country." Hell, we've let our "leaders" lie and cheat and steal and literally laugh in our faces, and we just "go on living our lives because we can't do anything about it."

I do agree it's gonna come down to civil disobedience, but it could backfire. Presently, anyone on the left who simply raises their voice is labeled as a communist and a traitor, massive marches on Washington are written off as "only a few thousand people"--I have a hard time imagining what it would take for the press to truthfully report civil disobedience.

It breaks my heart that this is what we've come to--many of us struggling to survive like we're living in a third-world country. I have a hard time seeing how we'll get out of this mess.

I sometimes think it will take a civil war on our own turf before people will wake up.

[femrap]

23. A financial collapse and some people will have

no choice but to hit the streets...their homes will be foreclosed. When the middle and working classes start getting hurt in the pocket book...that could open some eyes. When people have nothing to lose, they begin to find some courage.

[drmom]

52. Exactly...this is why the protest movement was successful during Viet Nam

Once people feel PERSONALLY threatened, they wake up.

[xultar]

2. Nope. I prefer Ghandi's and MLK's way of doing things.

But I'm old school.

[rucky]

4. They INVENTED Civil Disobedience

I'm not inciting violence in any way.

[xultar]

7. OK. I getcha. My first read of the post made me think of us throwin

shit. I couldn't go there.

[Canuckistanian]

44. "Passive Resistance" is also Civil Disobededience

That was the preferred method in India.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tesha]

43. Actually, it goes back at least as far as Thoreau (and doubtless further)

(NT)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

6. Their way WAS civil disobedience. Civil disobedience does not

equate with violence or rioting.

[xultar]

9. I gotcha. It's just that some of the things people say around here

make me jump to some crazy shit in my head.

I read some posts and the venom is as equally strong towards the Democrats as it is towards the Rethugs.

When I think of DUers getting into disobedience MLK does not come to mind. I think of that Pink group
people dressed in crazy shit doing uncool things.

[femrap]

27. Are you referring to Code Pink? A woman's peace group....

I love their creative civil disobedience....clever, gets the message across, and brings attention to stopping the war. They have never done anything violent. Maybe you should be designated as the one to bail the civilly disobedient out.

[xultar]

36. That I would do for the cause.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grasswire]

19. uh...

...did you not notice that Ghandi's first act of civil disobedience was burning registration cards despite being beaten by authorities? And what do you think MLK's actions were?

Civil disobedience = breaking the law in order to make a statement, knowing that arrest is likely.

[shance]

20. Hello?? They engaged in constant civil disobedience.

n/t

[madeline_con]

3. I was just telling Hubby that what we need is real protest...

Like Eastern European countries used to have, with people turning tanks over and storming the Bastille, so to speak.

He says there's no way the Repugs will last thru the coming 2006 elections, let alone a prezidential one in '08. :shrug:

[abbiehoff]

57. But they've already won the 2006 elections

Just as they had already won the November 2004 election many months before the vote took place. "It's all over but the counting, and we'll take care of the counting".

[wiggs]

5. You may very well be right. There are some longshots too...

....such as:

-A top level insider coming clean (Powell?) on any number of possible misdeeds

-Emergence of a charismatic hero dem leader (don't know who) whose words and deeds make it obvious what has been going on the last five years and who provides an obvious alternative

-The work of an independent investigator (only one in operation now) makes an obvious case for indictments at the highest levels

Other than those, I think you're right. Playing the usual politics game with the deck stacked against us has gotten us nowhere and will continue to fail.

[G_j]

8. to put all hopes in politicians

within a corrupt system is folly.

I'd recommend reading MLK's "Six Principles Of Nonviolence" for starters.
Yes, we better be prepared for some hardship and real sacrifice if we really want any kind of real change.

Ten million people pulling a tax revolt might also shake some trees, but I won't hold my breath. :-)

[MnFats]

10. I have been thinking the same thing for some time...

....I am hoping that the campuses will erupt this spring, just like they did in 1970 and '72.
the students too k the lead. time for us aging lefties to join forces. Some of us are too afraid of getting thumped by cops.
i'm afraid too but there are worse things than getting thumped by cops.
Bush and Cheney have carefully crafted this 'business as usual' outlook for their murderous war.
the theme in '72 was 'no business as usual' and millions of students and their allies clogged streets, occupied buildings and demonstrated on almost every campus in the country.....let's roll.

[femrap]

30. I don't see the youth at colleges paying much attention....remember,

back in the '70's we had a draft that affected the students...I remember the draft lottery. I think Rove learned from Nixon's mistake....rove doesn't want a draft....that'll piss off their rich base. No, Rove has decided to gut the student loan programs and the public education system so all the youth will be able to do is join the military or flip burgers. And just look how college costs have skyrocketed over the past 5 years...if you are a resident of Ohio, it is cheaper to go to the Univ. of KY.

And if the youth do get loans to get thru college, then they have a big albatross around their necks and are stuck having to work for 'da man.'

I hate what has happened to our country....and our culture. Greed, materialism, consumerism....the media has encouraged that.

[Imajika]

11. The problem...

...with all these "take it to the streets" and mass civil disobedience threads is that there is absolutely no mood in the country for any of that. On DU and political forums of all stripes there is no doubt more sentiment for dramatic action - but the nation at large just isn't terribly mad or in any kind of revolutionary mood.

Are most people saying the country is off in the wrong direction? Yep. But the polls indicated most people thought that before the 2004 election - yet they voted for Bush anyway. Bush is in terrible shape pollwise, and is indeed one downright awful President - but match him up against Kerry again and you might get the exact same election result at the end of the day.

Despite all the "worst economy since the great depression" talk, the truth is, at least in the near term, the economy is good enough to keep most Americans fat and happy - or at least satisified enough not to take part in mass disobedience.

Lastly, protests and civil disobedience are really only effective these days if non-political, average Americans take part. Honestly, anti-war demonstrators and political activists can bang pans and blow whistles till their blue in the face and no one will really care all that much. Get average, normally un-political people to take part in these things en'mass and things might actually change.

Imajika

[rucky]

13. Yeah, I'm afraid it has to get worse.

[Lars39]

17. Yea, right.

Go visit the nearest Senior Citizen Center or pharmacy or school or just about anywhere, and you will find people who arefed up.

[Imajika]

25. Ya, sure Lars..

"Go visit the nearest Senior Citizen Center or pharmacy or school or just about anywhere, and you will find people who arefed up."

People are ALWAYS fed up. People are generally always pissed about something or someone, they always are, and always will be. I can find fed up people everywhere. In the 90's I could have found people in all the places you listed fed up with Clinton. Hell, Republican wingnuts actually made the mistake of believing a majority of the nation were "fed up" with Clinton, and we all know how foolish they looked making such an assumption. The question is, are they collectively fed up to an unusual degree, and, who do the people blame as the cause of all their heightened angst.

Just because polls show most people don't approve of Bush doesn't mean they hold those feelings strongly enough to actually do anything at all about it other than complain once in awhile. Just because polls show most people don't approve of Bush doesn't even mean a majority would like the next Democratic candidate any better.

Surround yourself with like minded people, or spend huge amounst of time in echo chambers like DU and you would think Americans are boiling over with rage..... Tell me, do you really see any sign American are ready to burst and topple the status quo? I sure don't, infact, I see no signs of it at all.

[Lars39]

29. They tutted and whispered over Clinton, with Bush there is yelling

and desperation and a want for action because they blame Bush.
I don't know why you don't see it, because I see it every time I am out and around.

[druidity33]

41. more like overworked...

and underpaid. I respect your take, but to be honest, working folk are having to work EVEN MORE than they would have had to 5 years ago in order to get the same wage (usually with less, if any, benefits)... that is if they still have a decent job. I know of NO ONE near me who is "fat and happy" or even remotely "satisfied" with the situation. It will take a dramatic event to get people into the streets, but only because so many people are barely holding it all together. As for Kerry v. Bush, well "election result" notwithstanding, i think Kerry is our elected President... so i'm not sure we're even starting from the same platform there. Here's where we DO agree... it will be the average, non-political Americans who will turn the tide in our favor. And i predict it will be a bloc of "honest" Conservative/Rethugs that helps to force Impeachment proceedings (my guess is August)...

[wookie294]

12. Agreed

We need thousands of people getting arrested in peaceful protest in DC. It would REALLY make a difference, imho. The antiwar marches have been a bit too friendly!

[meganmonkey]

59. We did that after the big march last September

Almost 400 of us got arrested. Imagine if 40,000 showed up for that!

[pitohui]

68. 400 got arrested and for what? 30 seconds on the news? if that?

it was a waste of time

40,000 people are prob. not available who have both money, free time, and will to be arrested

if you have the money and free time (rich or upper middle class housewife) you've got other priorities like taking the kids to soccer in the SUV

if you have the free time but no money, you can't get there to where the protest is happening, you gotta get a job and prove you can keep it

if you have money but no free time, well, it's the golden cage but still you aren't available to just take off and get arrested

students in the 60s had laughably low tuition, today students must work and take on crushing loans and still show up for class, they can't spend their time traveling to meetings and protests

the world has changed, there is less time and freedom now

we have to figure out something that doesn't shoot our best people in the foot and getting our best people arrested so they maybe lose jobs, maybe lose time from school and eventually their degree, etc. all that does is punish US by putting another lead weight on our runners

[meganmonkey]

71. You're right , the world HAS changed

And with it, so have people's priorities. I am not saying that civil disobedience should override one's priorities to their children or their job. I am saying that it is an erroneous assumption that people can't be responsible in their jobs and homes and ALSO participate in civil disobedience.

I don't make a lot of money, and I don't get a lot of vacation time (I work for a small, grassroots nonprofit). I'm not a trust-fund hippie. But I planned ahead and took vacation time so that I could attend. I got a cheap hotel room and took the Metro into the city rather than staying in a fancy place downtown.

What was most surprising was that most of the people I got arrested with were middle-aged. As a 30 year old, I was significantly younger than most. Other people with jobs and families, who are fed up with the way things are going, who recognize that our so-called leaders are NOT going to get us out of Iraq.

Well-planned, peaceful civil disobedience seldom results in jail time or huge fines. There are always unknowns, but the most common 'offense' being committed results in a misdemeanor with a fine ($75 in my case) and no required court appearance, unless you want to make the extra effort to plead innocent and go to trial. Some do, and many can't. On the day of the arrest, I was in jail for several hours. I couldn't get back to DC for the trial.

I took a risk to go, but it didn't feel like a big risk. And I went alone, not with a group or family. I took a chance. It was scary, but I would gladly take it again.

Think about the risk an Iraqi has to take right now just to go to the market!

Think about the risk our soldiers take every second they are in Iraq!

The reasons you describe are exactly why we are stuck in this godforsaken war, this circus of violence and death being committed in OUR NAMES with OUR MONEY. This is NOT right, and the longer everyone tries to justify why they can't make a difference, the longer we are going to be in Iraq killing innocent people and wasting our military away.

For the record, I don't mean to be harshing on you as an individual, you are describing a societal phenomenon and that is what I am responding to. I know there are lots of people who can't do this, for very good and very valid reasons. But most people are just afraid to take a chance.

It's the whole "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" thing. Just IMAGINE what life is like in Iraq. And then I dare you to say "oh, poor me, I can't save a couple hundred dollars to fight for what is right". If you can't travel, plan it in your own community. Something, anything.

Please. We are in a war and a war means sacrifice.

[goodhue]

14. you bet

indeed civil disobedience is essential
cindy sheehan is but one of many engaged in it everyday

[samhsarah]

15. I've been doing some serious soul searching for a while now....

and I think you're right.

[pitohui]

69. i think THEIR SIDE needs to get arrested for a change

i don't see what getting more decent people arrested will accomplish

why not try it the other way, you know, like in olden times, when the actual criminal was the one arrested and put in jail?

is that really such a crazy dream?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. Maybe we need a MLK/Gandhi forum...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x299535

[mzmolly]

18. I agree, I wish there were a bus company to boycott.

It seems were so infested tis tough to know WHERE to get arrested exactly.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

22. This "charade" known as participatory Democracy?

Sorry. I happen to LIKE Democracy. It's a lot better than the alternatives.

In fact, I suggest that rather than whining, you actually try it. Get your ass down to your local county Democratic party and offer to pitch in, canvassing, phone banking, tabling, etc. You can get a hell of a lot more voters on our side by showing up and trying to persuade them, than being an asshole tying up traffic, and all the other things modern day "civil disobedience" entails.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Wind Dancer]

47. MLK, Jr. and Rosa Parks liked democracy, too.

There's a long list of folks that demanded change through civil disobedience but somehow I doubt it would enlighten you.

May I recommend an excellent history book, "The People's History of the U.S." by Howard Zinn.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/PeoplesHistory_Zinn.html

Your sig, "Proud Member of the Reality Based Community"? suggests that those who disagree are delusional, it's insulting.

[hippywife]

62. Great recommenation!

Best book I've ever read in my life!

[Wind Dancer]

65. Me too, hippywife!

:hi:

[hippywife]

61. We do all of those things and

still participate in public protest. No one says you can't do both. And it does have an effect on people. We demonstrate monthly and the mood of the people driving by has changed significantly from when our group first started and today. The honks and thumbs up in appreciation clearly out number the nay-sayers who haven't anything better to say than "Get a life!" "Get a job!" and all the other stupid things listening to hate radio has taught them to believe is true about protestors.

We are all hard working members of our communities and we also give back to our communities in various ways. We are not a monolithic culture by any means. We are young and old, rich, middle class, and poor, from all walks of life.

But, hey...thanx for falling into that mindset. :eyes:

[ClayZ]

24. Protests in 64 cities last night Pictures here:

http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=17&id=59&Itemid=210

We joined about 500 or 600 people in Seattle to DROWN OUT THE
State of the Unitary Exutive speech. In front of KOMO 4 News, we blasted the plaza with NOISE! Everyone had a Drums or Whistles and noisemakers of all sorts
BUSH STEP DOWN

BUSH STEP DOWN

BUSH STEP DOWN

The World Can't Wait

BUSH STEP DOWN

BUSH STEP DOWN

until the Speech was over. It was all good! How was the speech?

[upi402]

38. Excellent

[MaggieSwanson]

26. A friend emailed me this, about the Patriot act & Civil Disobedience

New Patriot Act Provision Creates Tighter Barrier to Officials at Public Events
Tuesday, January 31, 2006
By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

<snip>

Sen. Arlen Specter , R-Pa., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, sponsored the measure, which would extend the authority of the Secret Service to allow agents to arrest people who willingly or knowingly enter a restricted area at an event, even if the president or other official normally protected by the Secret Service isn't in attendance at the time.

<snip>

Under current law, the Secret Service can arrest anyone for breaching restricted areas where the president or a protected official is or will be visiting, but the new provision would allow such arrests even after those VIPs have left the premises of any designated "special event of national significance." The provision would increase the maximum penalty for such an infraction from six months to one year in jail.

<snip>

According to government sources with knowledge of the legislation, Secret Service protection and law enforcement authority would extend beyond protecting a specific person, rather the event itself would become the "protectee."

Currently, non-violent demonstrators who enter restricted areas at such events previously would be arrested and charged by local law enforcement with simple trespassing, said Graves. Under the provision included in the new law, they will be charged with felonies by the Secret Service.

Read the whole thing here (sorry to send you to Faux): http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183147,00.html

By the way, this friend was one of two women arrested with me at *'s last campaign stop in Cedar Rapids before the elections in 2004.

My point in sharing this article is that we'd better stop this Patriot Act expansion before it is too late to do ANYTHING.

Peace,

Maggie

[rg302200]

28. I am with you...

I would be willing to share 3 hots and a cot any day with fellow liberals! What do we have to loose? Before long we all will just start disappearing in the middle of the night after the "Fed" hacks into our internet doings!

[Mr_Spock]

31. The thought has occured to me more and more recent;ly

We are the people who the government works for - if they can't handle that responsibility, then they need to go.

[mtnester]

32. I honestly believe many people are too afraid...

I know I was 10 years old for this:





I remember my parents being horrified, I remember being scared to death that the police would shoot people like that....

and NOW...with THIS administration? I think this type of incident is more likely than ever before...and many of us KNOW that.

I personally spoke with one of the members of the NG that fired at Kent State - they were ORDERED to do that before they ever went in...and I am sure many of us fear it will be even easier now.

Funny that I am more afraid of this administration than I am of terrorists. In a sick way.

[pinto]

33. Why not both? Peaceful public protest/civil disobedience and work for '06.

There will be an election in November and we stand to make gains.

A lot of those electoral gains happen in a different venue than public demonstrations. It may be best to utilize both avenues without one taking precedence over the other. Just my 2 cents.

[rucky]

34. No doubt! n/t

[sandnsea]

35. Change Minds - Change Votes

Although I wouldn't object to a sit-in at CNN and all the major networks.

[rucky]

37. Or maybe a Today Show vigil at Rock Center

I really want to see that

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ladjf]

39. I'm for civil disobedience as a protest method. However, I believe

that the fascist bastards intend to put every single protester in prison. If that happened, the disobedience would have been to no avail.

[rucky]

40. Every protester has a mom, a spouse, a kid, a friend...

just like every soldier in Iraq does.

they can't maintain this for long. something's gonna blow.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

58. I think I prefer Nelson Mandela's approach.

"I do not, however, deny that I planned sabotage. I did not plan it in a spirit of recklessness, nor because I have any love of violence. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation that had arisen after many years of tyranny, exploitation, and oppression of my people by the Whites."

"All lawful modes of expressing opposition to this principle had been closed by legislation, and we were placed in a position in which we had either to accept a permanent state of inferiority, or to defy the Government. We chose to defy the law. We first broke the law in a way which avoided any recourse to violence; when this form was legislated against, and then the Government resorted to a show of force to crush opposition to its policies, only then did we decide to answer violence with violence."

Mandela's opening statement at his trial.

[kiteinthewind]

42. Mahatma Gandhi said

"Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the State becomes lawless and corrupt."
:patriot:

[meganmonkey]

60. DING DING DING!!!

That is what it is all about!

:patriot:

[Skidmore]

45. Getting heads cracked here and there isn't doing it now.

I hate saying that, but the civil rights movement was only successful when people could see their fellow citizens being murdered in the streets. The Vietnam antiwar movement only galvanized after people saw their children dying during protests. For some reason, our population only is able to deal in death and misery, and both of them have to be searingly brutal before they respond.

I fear this is what we are slouching toward.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mdmc]

48. personal risk makes my tummy hurt.

anyone fans of Bloom County? I wish I could post some toons that would embellish this post.

[Generator]

49. Yes

Thinking much the same thing. And the deal with Cindy Sheehan is-she is so damn messy and not always pretty and meets with the far far left and says things that you may not like-but every time someone sees her-they have to think of the war and the deaths that are happening right now. She is the dirty conscience of a nation that wants to hide. I swear to Christ-the crawl on my local Fox news station had this this morning: Bush to speak about being competitive and encouraging teachers...3 soldiers killed yesterday in Iraq... IT barely makes the news. It's just there. Almost like those over their dying our our sacrifice..like ancient times-sacrificing the innocent so we will be safe from??-yeah just like 5000 years ago-the imiginary evil that can't touch is.

But YEAH..we need some media that brings the focus back..and that's what the sixties was a lot of stunts and mess to focus people even while some were getting their heads cracked open for nothing but eventually it sunk in-the fact that what was being ignored-over there-is really happening to us all and what are we going to do about it?

And the war isn't all of it-but it's the excuse for all of it. The FEAR. The SPYING. The suspension of liberties. It's all the same tune.

[nashville_brook]

50. hey rucky -- thanks for this!

H2O Man has a wonderful piece that puts another spin on this. basically that an "insane" society robs life of it's meaning and to remain 'human' requires action.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=304356&mesg_id=304356">On Cindy Sheehan, Durkheim's "Disorganized Dust of Individuals," and George Bush's Narcissism

[meganmonkey]

55. I'll say it: "HELL YEAH! Let's get arrested!!!"

And I am not kidding. I did it once and I'll do it again.

Maybe if we get 40,000 or 400,000 to do it at once it will have a greater impact. It really isn't that bad!!!

:patriot:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/26/AR2005092600143.html

[dchill]

56. It is truly a shame...

when standing up for the Constitution must be re-labeled civil disobedience. Even when you'e right, it's "illegal."

[rateyes]

63. Steal Diebold machines...

and throw them in Boston Harbor, was a good idea somebody had.

[Gronk Groks]

64. Start with Gandi's non-violent approach...

...start thinking about Nelson Mandela's approach.

Just hope reality doesn't follow these precedents:
Roman Republic deteriorates to Roman Empire.
German Republic deteriorates to Third Reich.

American Republic deteriorates to American Empire?
New millennium, same problem.

[ludwigb]

72. Key is Symbolic Effect

The key to being effective is being organized. But most civil disobidience on the left seems to be carried out by anarchists. We need a more sit-downs and the like methinks.

[Gronk Groks]

74. We need numbers, BIG numbers...

...less than 100 doesn't cut it. Maybe several thousand would be noticed.

Next big rally in D.C.; we need to get EVERYONE to join the civil disobedience. Only then will the MSM (possibly) mention it.

Nelson Mandala's option is the position of last resort. The frightening thing is that rational people can talk about armed resistance as a possibility.

[pitohui]

67. but getting arrested hasn't achieved anything in years

hell susan sarandon does nothing any more but sell face cream and get arrested

has it changed anything anywhere?

they just don't listen to us and getting arrested marginalizes us even more and makes us look out of the mainstream, it also gives the gov't too much power over our personal information such as our fingerprints, dna, etc.

you don't see GOP getting arrested for anything unless they have something to gain personally from it, such as illicit sex or big ol wads of money, yet somehow they are the ones on top

i think i need to see proof that civil disobedience has achieved anything since the watergate era

it doesn't even get publicity any more

who cares if you get arrested frankly

[Raine]

70. Won't change things with it either

that kind of thing hasn't work in 30 years. :thumbsdown:

[distantearlywarning]

73. Here's my problem:

I'm willing to get arrested for some of these causes. I just don't want my sacrifice to be in vain. And right now it seems like it would be, because at least 40% of America still thinks Bush is the greatest thing since Wonder Bread, and at least 40% more wishes we would all just shut up because they can't the latest True Hollywood Story about Paris Hilton over our protests.

I love the rest of you (the other 20%), but I wonder what my jail time would really do for you in the short or the long term.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to get motivated to put myself and my life on the line for the apathetic morons who inhabit this country. It just seems like it would be more fruitful to try to go live somewhere else where people think and read and care about stuff.

I know this sounds really terrible, and I kind of feel bad about it. But I just really don't like the other people who live around me very much, and I really don't want to go to jail in a vain attempt to save their sorry asses. Maybe if some other people in this country start to wake up, we could start a real movement and all go to jail together. Then it might mean something and accomplish something. But I'm not holding my breath....