Who has caused more people to be killed; Saddam or Bush?

[Mortos]

Saddam was found guilty of ordering troops to kill 184 people, a truly disgusting inhumane criminal thing to do and it is for that action he has been sentenced to death. Saddam is suspected of causing to be killed (not personally killing) by means of military actions, false imprisonment, kidnapping by secret police, and war within his own country of what, 100,000 - 200,000 human beings? These numbers are all estimates and no one knows how many people died as a direct result of Saddams orders. Saddam committed these acts over a 30 year period during which he was the President of Iraq he was also an ally of the United States for most of his tenure.


In only six short years, George W. Bush has caused, by his direct actions and orders, the deaths of 3,000 U.S. troops, somewhere between 50,000 (by his own estimate) and 600,000 (estimate of "The Lancet" by interviewing people in Iraq) Iraqi civilians and uncounted injuries. He has also allegedly encouraged some of the same acts Saddam has been rightfully villified for; kidnappings, torture, rendition, imprisonment without trial, and retaliatory destruction of entire Iraqi towns.

How do we justify killing one leader who caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands and let another continue his killing spree unabated?

I wonder how Bush would fare in a trial in Iraq?

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Bush - you have to include 9/11 and Katrina numbers to it....

[hughee99]

4. I guess you'd have to factor in the Iran-Iraq war as well... n/t

[nealmhughes]

16. Absolutely. Maybe a million killed in the two armies.

[leftchick]

6. and the war in Afghanistan

.

[davepc]

2. This kind of moral relativism is unseemly. Both are guilty of crimes

If person A kills Y people and person B kills X people it doesn't make one any more of a murderer then another.

[Mortos]

5. Does it make one any less

I am just trying to see the difference between the two.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

14. Devils advocate (wink)

It depends. Our justification is war. As much as we dislike it and as illegal as it is, War is the factor.
Saddams crimes to the people of Iraq and the reasons of his death sentance are for not just murder. They include as you've said torture, gassing, genocide of his fellow countymen. So technically, Saddam is more of a murderer.
In a humanitarian sense, I would have to say Bush is more or a better example of murder.
I base this on the execution of the Liberation. To go to war without a plan after MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, refuse to do anything other than Stay The Course as bodies and caskets begin to pile up, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, use White Phosphorus on an entire Iraqi town, won't take 5 minutes with Cindy Sheehan, a mother of a volunteer soldier killed in this fiasco of an occupation, and make her feel like he cared enough about Casey and her, to tell her his feelings of grief and compassion.

[Monkeyman]

3. One was to many based on lies Bush is a madman

[leftchick]

7. not just killed, how about the tortured?

It is tough to beat bush style torture...

[babylonsister]

8. Hussein was very capable of torture, and did it a lot (to give

another devil his due).

[leftchick]

9. oh

okay

[madrchsod]

12. so are those who now torture their victums

before they die. there seems to be no outrage to a human being that has`t been done by one side or the other. iraq has become a bad hollywood splatter film but the blood, guts, and gore are real not special effects. saddam and his sons were not alone in their inhumanity

[babylonsister]

15. Absolutely, there's a lot of blame for inhumanity to be spread around.

This admin is very culpable; I was just pointing out that they weren't alone.

[seriousstan]

13. Really? How about gouging out of the eyes,piercing of the hands with an electric drill

electric shocks or cigarette burns to various parts of the body, pulling out of fingernails, rape, long periods of suspension by the limbs from either a rotating fan in the ceiling or from a horizontal pole, beating with cables, hosepipe or metal rods, and falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet). In addition, detainees were threatened with rape and subjected to mock execution. They were placed in cells where they could hear the screams of others being tortured and were deliberately deprived of sleep.

Torture victims in Iraq have been blindfolded, stripped of their clothes and suspended from their wrists for long hours. Electric shocks have been used on various parts of their bodies, including the genitals, ears, the tongue and fingers. Victims have described to Amnesty International how they have been beaten with canes, whips, hosepipe or metal rods and how they have been suspended for hours from either a rotating fan in the ceiling or from a horizontal pole often in contorted positions as electric shocks were applied repeatedly on their bodies. Some victims had been forced to watch others, including their own relatives or family members, being tortured in front of them.

Other methods of physical torture described by former victims include the use of Falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet), extinguishing of cigarettes on various parts of the body, extraction of finger nails and toenails and piercing of the hands with an electric drill. Some have been sexually abused and others have had objects, including broken bottles, forced into their anus. In addition to physical torture, detainees have been threatened with rape and subjected to mock execution. They have been placed in cells where they could hear the screams of others being tortured and have been deprived of sleep. Some have stayed in solitary confinement for long periods of time. Detainees have also been threatened with bringing in a female relative, especially the wife or the mother, and raping her in front of the detainee. Some of these threats have been carried out.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engMDE140082001!Open

[madrchsod]

10. bush1 and bush2

have killed a lot more than saddam did.

[Riddler]

11. The difference between Saddam and Bush is simple....

one is a murdering, lying, corrupt, self-serving, war criminal, piece of shit dictator with absolutely no compassion or respect for human life and human values and the rule of law. The other is scheduled to be hanged tonight.

[leftchick]

17. DING DING DING!!!!!

:applause: !!!!!!

[Mortos]

18. I saw that coming

but it still made me smile

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. Are You Saying Saddam Wasn't? Cause He Was. And He Has Received His Justice.

Saddam was as much a murdering, lying, corrupt, self-serving, war criminal, piece of shit dictator as anyone. Good riddance to him.

[The Straight Story]

20. one leader ordered the deaths of many, there is a difference

In Iraq today there are many iraqi's killing other Iraqi's. This was not ordered, it is sectarian violence. THOSE people are responsible for their actions, not bush.

[Imagevision]

21. Saddam + 400,000+ -- Bush 660,000+

[Vidar]

22. I say we save the same gallows for Bush.

[WindRavenX]

23. jesus christ, it's not a competition

:puke:

[slackmaster]

24. THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT A STUPID POLL!

:nuke: