Am I the only member of DU that's glad Saddam is dead?

[rpgamerd00d]

He was one, sadistic, evil, megalomaniacal mass-murderer.

And I'm glad he's dead.

Seems like I'm the only one ...

... then again, I am also one of the few Liberals around here that isn't against the death penalty, so maybe thats the reason.

/shrug

/cheers to the Iraqi people for bringing their dictator to Justice
/condolences to the Iraqi people for having one dictator replaced with another (Bush).

[Erika]

1. Murder should never be enjoyed

Just my two cents.

[rpgamerd00d]

6. You're right.

But Justice should always be enjoyed.

[goclark]

122. Justice for me would be to see GW at the Hague

As much as I dislike his politics and his lack of brain power, I do not want him to
be hanged ~ that is barbaric, IMO.

[The Magistrate]

8. Amusement, Ma'am, Is Where One Finds It

It is not as if the man were an innocent lamb....

[Bluebear]

90. A very cold reply. nt

[sniffa]

269. ....

coLd is how one perceives it, sir.

[Karenina]

274. It has certainly been interesting

clicking on the brazillion threads, with a perspective across the Big Pond.
Saddam's death BEFORE he could sing was a fait accompli the moment he landed in U.S. custody. What I find puzzling, exhibited by the countless threads, is Amis EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT in this one man. Haiti is and has been off the radar screen, that U.S. coup was the appetizer. Anyone making a cursory study into the MIC's adventurism around the world for the last century would be well-informed of its goals.

Outside your borders you appear seriously fucked up; the Italian cartoon today captures the essence of what America has become. We in other lands realize that you give a rat's ass about other viewpoints. "Saddam was a ba-a-ahd man." You're GLAD he's dead. GOOD for YOU! May you also be content with the blowback.

[Toots]

119. You find death amusing?

No wonder America is the way it is.

[POAS]

135. It is what it is toots, ours is a violent society.

The only thing that surprises me is the joy some find in that violence.

Saddam's life and death bring nothing but sadness to me because his life was filled with death and his death will, without doubt, inspire more killing. To find joy in any part of this is beyond description.

[Bluebear]

140. "To find joy in any part of this is beyond description."

I am glad to see your post. I don't know what is happening to people anymore.

[POAS]

143. It is sad, isn't it! n/t

[haymark]

162. Peace for some

There is a segment of Iraqis who are relieved that Saddam will never come back into power. That doesn't seem to be a bad thing.

[POAS]

169. Relief

makes sense. Joy does not.

[calimary]

224. Good point. Good post.

Nobody's canonizing the asshole. But I really don't feel much like partying about it.

Especially having seen this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3004913&mesg_id=3004913

I would MUCH rather have seen that second trial play out so the record could be complete, and to be a TRULY "fair trial," it should have been at The Hague.

[The Magistrate]

203. At Times, Sir, Yes

[Ms. Clio]

210. well, that's good to know

I'll be sure to remember that when Kissinger finally goes to hell.

[The Magistrate]

223. That, Ma'am, Will Be Occassion For A Modest Binge

One that has been much too postponed already....

[Odin2005]

145. Murder is the UNLAWFUL killing of a person.

calling an execution murder is oxymoronic

[mdmc]

229. the gangs in my hood execute gangstas all the time

sometimes they cut off their feet too... "Extingishing the human life force" is only for God.

[Odin2005]

248. Gang executions arn't lawful, though

And there is no such this as God or a "life force"...

[mdmc]

263. depends on what you mean by "lawful"

Since the gangs operate outside of the law (the drug war requires another form of "laws" to work out disagreements), the only "law" is that of the community. The "law" can change on the whim of man; In Germany, the law once allowed for the "murder" of a citizen because of his/her religion. It was "lawful".

If there is no such thing as God, then kill em all! (no one will be required to sort them out).

[Odin2005]

281. One needs to make a distinction between legitimate and illegitimate authority.

A dictator or an informal local oligarchy like gangsters or mafiosi aren't legitimate authority. IMO the only types of legal authority that are truely legitimate are democratic ones.

[mdmc]

283. Nazi Germany was mad lawful

ya know? Though it really wasn't democratic...

[mdmc]

284. the death penalty should be illegal

:patriot:
Don't worry if you don't agree - in 2008 we will probably have two pro death penalty parties running for the white house :eyes:

[rockymountaindem]

2. I'm glad he got his

You're not alone. Too bad I can't watch this thread disintigrate into a flame war, but I have to go to bed.

[wake.up.america]

I very respectfully disagree with the death penalty. The circle of violence continues.

[Trajan]

9. I appreciate your insight ...

You will find few friends tonight ....

Bed is looking REALLY good ....

[silverojo]

64. And how is it a "circle of violence"?

Do the executed murderers rise from the grave and start killing people again? :eyes:

[brentspeak]

110. Thanks. Some common sense.

[goclark]

123. No, but it does not stop others from killing each other

His killing will not deter GW from wanting to continue to kill people.

[Solo_in_MD]

128. And I respectfully disagree with you

Death penalty has its place...IMO this was one of them.

[fujiyama]

3. I have little problem with him being hanged

I would take issue with this idea that Iraqis brought him to justice though.

With no legitimate government in place, it is difficult to consider this trial anything but a joke.

[BlueCaliDem]

260. 100% in agreement with you. This was a LYNCHING. Pure & Simple.

Cenk Uygur wrote an eye-opening piece regarding the Saddam lynching, and the crimes for which he got death in the "new" Iranian-friendly Iraq:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/where-were-the-mass-grave_b_37426.html

"As I watched nonstop coverage of Saddam's Death Watch, I was told over and over that this was a heinous mass murderer. There were mass graves. That up to 300,000 people were killed during his reign.

Then they told us what he was actually convicted for -- 148 dead in Dujail. That's a terrible crime.

But there's at least that amount of people killed every two days in Iraq now.

There it is! The height of American hypocrisy! "But there's at least that amount of people killed every two days in Iraq now."

According to another report, over 750,000 innocent men, women and children in Iraq were killed since the U.S. invasion, and Saddam gets lynched for 148 dead from back in the '80's??! The 148 that attempted to ASSASSINATE him??? What would GWB or Repubes do? Offer a pardon? Yeah...right.

I am MOST deeply disappointed that there are some DUers here that condone, nay, celebrate the lynching of Saddam; the Sovereign leader of a Sovereign country that had NADA to do with 9/11/2001, and that WE allowed Bush to invade based upon lies, and deceit, and still believe that he shouldn't suffer ANY consequences for all the unnecessary blood dripping off the WH walls, and most American citizens' hands! If anything, their hands drip thicker with more Iraqi blood than mine now Saddam's is added to it. Mine are dripping only because I am an American, and my country and countrymen stood behind this loser of a pResident almost en masse when he pushed, and shoved for war against Iraq.

Who in the HELL are we to judge Saddam Hussein when we vote for, and back one corrupt, lying, war-mongering, and-profiteering President after another that's no better--even worse because we have the worse weaponry--than all the Husseins of this world put together??

Or does lynching one foreign dictator make some hypocritical Americans forget, even for a few false-feel-good moments, how ugly the truth of how violent Americans really, truly are?

No wonder hallucinogens, churches, and religions are so plentiful, and popular in this country.

Americans apparently just LOVE to delude themselves...

[Trajan]

Yeah .. Maybe thats the reason .....

Liberals have been, mostly, against the death penalty ....

But, amazingly ... you have friends here .....

Some would even go as far as to steep the rotting corpse in urine ... An interesting idea for a liberal .....

Maybe ALL prisoners should be placed in piss ....

[ronnykmarshall]

139. Who assigned you as "Liberal Monitor"?

This is the second thread I've seen where you are questioning someones "credentials" to be a liberal.

Please forward me the "Liberal Manual" so I make sure I'm in lock step with what "we" are supposed to believe.

[Trajan]

144. There is a STRONG Liberal Tradition

AGAINST the death penalty ....

I am pointing that out .. if you dont like it ... tough ....

[Blue-Jay]

180. I am reading....your posts...aloud...

In a.... William Shatner voice....

It is.....

Entertaining....

[Trajan]

193. Chuckles ...

Ok ... that is funny ....

[ronnykmarshall]

182. Howwwwwww niiiiiiiicccceee!

Ooooooo you sho' told me!!

[Trajan]

197. Whatever ...

Enjoy the moment .... It is your reward ....

[ronnykmarshall]

279. Oooooo even better.

Pat yourself on the back, sweetie!!

[fishwax]

4. I've seen lots of people who are happy

and that's without really paying particular attention. So ... no.

[uppityperson]

5. guess you must not have read many GD topics if you think you are alone.

first time I've wanted to use hide thread feature, will just stay off DU for a while instead. Night all.

[question everything]

7. I am against the death penalty. Period

and it is not as if life in jail is a picnic.

I think that for someone who was used to be in power, rotting in jail for the rest of his life is more just punishment than a quick death.

[rpgamerd00d]

11. I view life in prison as a cruel and unusual death sentence.

I mean, think about it - you're sentenced to be removed from society till you're dead.

That is basically a death sentence, and the method of your execution is - age.

[beam me up scottie]

88. Yes, hanging them's much more merciful.

Do I really need the :sarcasm: ?

[zanne]

101. Now that's tortured logic.

You really had to reach with a pole for that one. I just don't think that murdering somebody for murder is right.

[rpgamerd00d]

170. Face it. Behind bars till death = cruel death sentence.

Why can't you see that?

[Ms. Clio]

183. Because as long as someone is alive, he or she is not DEAD

Which is why we have life sentences as opposed to death sentences. Words have meanings -- facts possess reality -- just like it's a fact that the Iraqi people had absolutely nothing to do with this "trial."

[rpgamerd00d]

188. Defend your position.

Tell me why rotting in jail until you are dead is "more humane" than immediate death.

They are both death - why is one "death" better than another "death"?

[Ms. Clio]

191. Read a dictionary

Words have meanings.

Death is not life. It's just that simple. Or why does murder matter at all?

[rpgamerd00d]

192. OK, so you can't defend your position. Got it. -nt

[Ms. Clio]

195. No, you can't defend yours, because it's asinine

Death does not = life.

[rpgamerd00d]

198. I reject your premise. I never said death=life, you did.

I said, a Life Sentence (which is defined as "spending the rest of your life behind bars until you die") is the EXACT SAME SENTENCE as a Death Sentence. The only difference is the method of execution. In a death sentence, the method of execution is hanging, eletrocution, lethal injection, etc. In a Life Sentence, the method of execution is ... aging.

In BOTH CASES you've sentenced the person to DIE. One just TAKES LONGER.

[Ms. Clio]

202. Using that logic, we are all "sentenced to die" sooner or later

You are really twisting yourself in knots that bear no resemblance to law or reality.

[rpgamerd00d]

209. You sure you're not a republican? You talk like one.

See, you are twisting YOURSELF in knots, yet you accuse me of it. Thats Republican 101 if I ever saw it.

Face it, you can't defend your position. Right? Just admit it.

[Ms. Clio]

212. Yo apparently believe that insisting on your opinion is the same as defending your position

It's boring me now.

[beam me up scottie]

207. Oh yeah, that's it, baby, work that logic.

:rofl:

And to think I believed you were serious there for a minute...:rofl:

[beam me up scottie]

278. I came back to see if you really said that.

And you did.


wow

[Nutmegger]

10. I don't support state sanctioned MURDER

Never, ever. I'm not going to start with Saddam.

[Ms. Clio]

12. you're surely not the only flamebaiter with that opinion

although it's complete crap, of course.

[Justitia]

17. What a great pic! And what a beautiful, happy pup. Can't help but smile. -eom

[Ms. Clio]

26. Thank you mucho!

I think she gets happier every day, and I just love seeing it (she was a rescue).

:hi:

[Judi Lynn]

56. I've gazed at that beautiful, adoring face, as well. What a lovely friend.

Hearing you rescued her makes it all that much more wonderful. She looks as if she loves the person taking the photo, with absolutely no reservations.

[Ms. Clio]

148. Again, thank you!

I fell for her hard, and so glad I did -- she's one of the finest dog companions I've ever had.

So cool to hear such nice compliments about my girl from so many of my fave DUers!

:hi:

[Kajsa]

131. I love that photo, too.

What a beautiful, happy face she has.

Bless you for rescuing her and thanks
for the smile this morning.

:hi:

[Ms. Clio]

149. Good morning and thank you!

Very much appreciated!

:hi:

[Dutch]

136. So everyone who dares to express disagreement with you is a flamebaiter?

Although your ego might like to believe people post primarily to provoke a reaction from you, i'd imagine they're doing it mainly to express their own views.

[Ms. Clio]

150. Yes, that's right

Now go put your strawman away.

[Raine]

13. The guy was a monster

created by this country but still it doesn't bother me that he is gone there are others who deserve my sympathy, he doesn't. I think it would've been better to have kept him around to get info out of him but instead he went to hell sooner than later.

[pointblank]

47. Agreed

Watching the faux news coverage makes me sick, Saddam has zero sympathy from me but if you really want to get down to brass tacks someone else needs to be judged just as harshly for their murderous ways.

Im anti death penalty but Im not against life in prison.

[bigtree]

14. kind of high-horsed to assume that you are the only one

you must not be reading too deeply into these posts.

It's nothing special to wish someone dead. More killings are not what we need today. This was nothing but the short-sighted completion of a choreographed coup. The repercussions and blowback from Saddam's hanging may not prove to be worth the dressed-up barbarism.


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree

[Desertrose]

22. Nicely put, bigtree.

More killings are the LAST thing we needed.....

[unsavedtrash]

15. you are not alone

I'm not dancing in the streets or drinking to his death but I do think he got what was coming to him.

[Common Sense Party]

42. Yup. Good riddance to bad garbage. It's just too bad it took

a U.S. invasion and 3000 dead troops to see him swing from the gallows.

I'd much rather have seen the Iraqis do this on their own, with no foreign intervention--but, of course, that wouldn't have happened.

[Vexatious Ape]

16. I have no problem with killing a mass murderer like

Saddam. I just wanted more time in court so we could, just maybe, hear him sing out loud about all the counties, and companies that helped him along the way building his arsenal and waging war against his neighbors.

[The Traveler]

18. I'm not perturbed by it

Except that the process by which this was done was seriously flawed and the timing could be interpreted as convenient for those who want to keep certain details from the American public. Some of the genocide trials he should have endured might have exposed too much about certain people and policies.

Like many, I am not against the death penalty on principle. But the process by which that decision is obtained must be impeccable. This process wasn't, and in my view mirrors the tilt towards expediency suffered in our own domestic justice system in recent years. A lot of the wailing and rending of robes and gnashing of teeth you hear around here is not out of any sympathy for Saddam, but concern for what this country might be becoming, what this means about us as a people.

I recommend we all take a minute and just breathe.

**Edited. Damn typos.**

[Erika]

21. Saddam wasn't given a minute to breathe

What we sow we will reap.

[The Traveler]

37. He had lots of minutes

We all die. What is important is how we choose to live our minutes. Saddam stopped the breathing of a lot of innocent people. The decision to off him doesn't bother me.

The WAY that decision was arrived at bothers me a lot, for a wide range of reasons. More than the fact of his death, the shabbiness of the process is likely to bear consequences in the future.

And the death penalty is applied far too whimsically in the US for a debate on the abstract concept to be meaningful to me. We have executed too many innocent men and spared too many affluent men to believe we can apply the death penalty with any degree of fairness or consistency.

[rockymountaindem]

23. I agree with you

I think some people deserve to die, but I am also worried by flaws in the process. However, in this case, I think the result was a just one. Still, I wish things could have been fleshed out more fully, whatever we may or may not have learned. I don't think it would have exposed "too much", but it couldn't have hurt.

Ok, now I'm really going to bed. You know what a bad habit the internets can be...

[The Traveler]

39. Being right for the wrong reason

inevitably leads to being wrong.

But I ain't gonna cry over the guy or anything.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

19. Honestly, I couldn't care less either way.

I'm also not against the death penalty, FWIW.

[EFerrari]

20. Killing people is wrong. Not rocket science, really. n/t

[Erika]

25. Killing damages the soul

That's the best I can explain it.

[EFerrari]

28. It's not actually possible to hurt other people without hurting yourself

unless you are a sociopath.

That's how relationship works.

When we kill a person, we hurt ourselves too. It's too bad.

[Norwood]

24. I feel nothing

I got no joy or any bit of sadness about saddams death. He was an evil brutal dictator (who we supported) and was deserving of death (Yes I support the death penalty, not popular opinion here but I do).

However, now I ask, what now? 3000 american soldiers dead, was it worth it to see one bad guy executed? The trial was a farce, it looks like the US is responsible for his death, not the Iraqis.

I got nothing but an empty feeling from his demise, well except for maybe fear. I'm afraid of the violence that will most likely be escalated by the execution.

[Erika]

27. Violence begets violence

That's what it's all about. Yes, Saddam was killed by the U.S. Government. They set up the government and pulled the strings.

But not in my name.

[Nutmegger]

30. Not in my name indeed

I'm so sick of this crap, all of it. :(

[shance]

29. If we actually knew the truth, it may be a different thing, but we don't.

We have been lied to continuously.

So with that, yes, as far as Im concerned, you are alone.

[sanskritwarrior]

31. No you are not

I have already commented on this in another thread. But no, I am also quite pleased that a monster was taken to the gallows. Innocent death is always reprehensible, the death of a monster any monster is never a bad thing.

[uppityperson]

32. how about the death of a monster who is locked up?

[sanskritwarrior]

40. For example??

n/t

[uppityperson]

245. Pinochet

[demobabe]

33. Saddam was a horrid murderer, BUT

...he was murdered by our government to cover up many illegal actions by our own government from Reagan up to Dubya. Notice how his execution was hurried so it would happen before the Democrats took office?

Saddam Hussein could have been invaluable in investigations against a lot of the government corruption plaguing our country.

On top of it all, executing Saddam only makes him a martyr - that gives him and his supporters a lot of power. This execution causes us all to be less safe now, and more likely to be kidnapped and killed if we travel abroad.

So no, I'm not glad he's dead.

[rpgamerd00d]

35. Something bothers me about what you wrote.

You said: "This execution causes us all to be less safe now, and more likely to be kidnapped and killed if we travel abroad."

I mean no offense here, but that sounds very cowardly. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that is how it came across.

Personally, I don't give a rats ass how much danger my actions put me in so long as my actions are Just. I am the kind of guy that would testify against the mafia if required to.

It really bothers me when I see statements like that. As if to say "Lets not dole out justice because it might make criminals commit more crimes."

[demobabe]

41. Cowardly? No, it's a statement of fact.

You kill a leader, and you get more zealots ready to retaliate. Violence begets violence, and there is nothing that was accomplished by hanging Saddam Hussein that putting him in a jail cell for the rest of his life wouldn't have accomplished.

Additionally, we've lost his testimony forever about the war crimes that were committed by this administration, the details of all the weapons and deals made in former administrations, and Lord knows what else.

We were business partners with Saddam Hussein for a long time, in case you didn't realize that. We built him up and gave him everything he needed so he could war wit Iran for years. We even sold weapons to Iran so they could war with Iraq. We've been feeding the violence in the region for a long time and we're not innocent in all of this.

Prior to Bush, we could travel the world in relative security. Our policy of pre-emptive wars and nationbuilding has made us hated the world over, and we are far less safe today than before Dubya took the office.

Cowardly is Chickenhawks who've never been to war sending our troops into harm's way for no good reason other than to line their pockets with billions of dollars from the US Treasury.

[sanskritwarrior]

50. Where can we not travel now that we could before Iraq?

I took "military leave" in Egypt, Kenya and then South Africa. I took my sister to the pyramids, on a Safari in Kenya and then to Cape Town. Everywhere we went people asked us where we were from. I told them and received nothing but politeness. I told them I was in the Army and people didn't say "boo". A few people tried to ask me about Iraq, I politely told them I was on vacation and did not want to discuss the war. Almost everyone respected my wishes all except for some stupid girl in south Africa. I'm not saying you are wrong, just saying I did not experience this at all.

Anyway, I digress.......One final point Saddam has no zealots to inspire with his death. He is a secular leader from an obscure tribe. Saddam's tribe in Iraq is small as was his power base. If the violence spikes against US forces significantly, I will admit I'm wrong. However in this regard I do not believe I will be.

[demobabe]

53. Well, for starters...

...going to Europe is now more dangerous - Americans have been posing as Canadians since Iraq, and in case you didn't notice, they're building a big wall on the Mexican border (even tho it's underfunded), and there are new requirements that you need a passport - not just an ID or birth certificate - to go to Canada or Mexico - and that is directly related to terrorism.

And we're doing a heckuva job discouraging international tourism; Hawaii has been having record tourist years as a result of Americans fearing travel to international destinations. That's a fact.

As for what kind of violence increase to expect from Iraq, I honestly don't know since we've pissed off the entire country by killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. I don't think we'll be able to prove either one of us right or wrong on that point.

[shance]

48. Tell us what was "just"? Where was the fair trial?

Please tell us.

I'm interested to know.

I'm still waiting for it to happen.

[Catherine Vincent]

34. Would you like to be?

Enjoy.

[ariellyn]

I love your answer. Pretty much sums up my thinking. nt

[flyarm]

36. i am not glad..dead men don't talk!! and saddam was put down so he doesn't

tell the papa, reagan, cheney , rumsfeld story to our dems congress and the world!!

fuck *..this was planned and executed to cover his own ass and his cabals asses!!

so why wasn't saddam sent to the hague like Melosivic???????????


to keep the * cabal's secrets!

thats why!!

and think about the timing!!

fly

[cali]

38. Saddam had years to talk

He had years to spill the beans. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but between the end of the Gulf War and the commencement of bushco's war, he had over a decade. Who knows? Maybe he wrote it all down, and it's in a bank vault in Amman, or maybe there was nothing to spill. We already know that he was allied with Reagan, daddy bush and others. We know that he was trained and protected by the CIA. I don't find the timing in the least surprising.

[flyarm]

105. to who?? do you know who he talked to?? did he talk to say Kerry??

or any neutral party??

who of our congress people met with him??? with an all cover * ass government..who did Saddam talk to??

please do name a neutral party saddam talked to...

what do we know of the 75 million illegal trading cheney did with saddam with the embargo on saddam ..for haliburton..didn't seem cheney thought saddam was such a bad guy when he was doing 75 million$$ of business with saddam in 1997-8
when cheney sent a bunch of haliburton employees over to iraq to work..under such an evil man..especially when cheney was trying to negotiate oil pipeline deals with saddam in april and may of 2001..

this was ment at this date and time..and the rush to killsaddam to stop his being interrogated by the dems in congress...

nothing less!

fly

[cali]

120. Unadulterated

bullshit speculation on your part. Opinion is not fact.

[flyarm]

171. I DON'T NEED TO USE MY OWN OPINION..WHEN OTHERS SAY IT BETTER!!

A Short History On The Origins Of Saddam Hussein
<snip>

In the mid-1980s, Miles Copeland, a veteran CIA operative, told UPI the CIA had enjoyed "close ties" with Qasim's ruling Baath Party, just as it had close connections with the intelligence service of Egyptian leader Gamel Abd Nassar. In a recent public statement, Roger Morris, a former National Security Council staffer in the 1970s, confirmed this claim, saying that the CIA had chosen the authoritarian and anti-communist Baath Party "as its instrument." Adel Darwish, Middle East expert and author of "Unholy Babylon," said the move was done "with full knowledge of the CIA," and that Saddam's CIA handler was an Iraqi dentist working for CIA and Egyptian intelligence. U.S. officials separately confirmed Darwish's account.

<snip>


Saddam then crossed into Syria and was transferred by Egyptian intelligence agents to Beirut, according to Darwish and former senior CIA officials. While Saddam was in Beirut, the CIA paid for Saddam's apartment and put him through a brief training course, former CIA officials said. The agency then helped him get to Cairo, they said.

<snip>

In Cairo, Saddam was installed in an apartment in the upper class neighborhood of Dukki and spent his time playing dominos in the Indiana Café, watched over by CIA and Egyptian intelligence operatives, according to Darwish and former U.S. intelligence officials.

<snip>

But during this time Saddam was making frequent visits to the American Embassy where CIA specialists such as Miles Copeland and CIA station chief Jim Eichelberger were in residence and knew Saddam, former U.S. intelligence officials said. Saddam's U.S. handlers even pushed Saddam to get his Egyptian handlers to raise his monthly allowance, a gesture not appreciated by Egyptian officials since they knew of Saddam's American connection, according to Darwish. His assertion was confirmed by former U.S. diplomat in Egypt at the time.

<snip>

The CIA/Defense Intelligence Agency relation with Saddam intensified after the start of the Iran-Iraq war in September of 1980. During the war, the CIA regularly sent a team to Saddam to deliver battlefield intelligence obtained from Saudi AWACS surveillance aircraft to aid the effectiveness of Iraq's armed forces, according to a former DIA official, part of a U.S. interagency intelligence group.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2849.ht...

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Robert Fisk: A dictator created then destroyed by America
Saddam to the gallows. It was an easy equation. Who could be more deserving of that last walk to the scaffold - that crack of the neck at the end of a rope - than the Beast of Baghdad, the Hitler of the Tigris, the man who murdered untold hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis while spraying chemical weapons over his enemies? Our masters will tell us in a few hours that it is a "great day" for Iraqis and will hope that the Muslim world will forget that his death sentence was signed - by the Iraqi "government", but on behalf of the Americans - on the very eve of the Eid al-Adha, the Feast of the Sacrifice, the moment of greatest forgiveness in the Arab world.

But history will record that the Arabs and other Muslims and, indeed, many millions in the West, will ask another question this weekend, a question that will not be posed in other Western newspapers because it is not the narrative laid down for us by our presidents and prime ministers - what about the other guilty men?

No, Tony Blair is not Saddam. We don't gas our enemies. George W Bush is not Saddam. He didn't invade Iran or Kuwait. He only invaded Iraq. But hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians are dead - and thousands of Western troops are dead - because Messrs Bush and Blair and the Spanish Prime Minister and the Italian Prime Minister and the Australian Prime Minister went to war in 2003 on a potage of lies and mendacity and, given the weapons we used, with great brutality.

In the aftermath of the international crimes against humanity of 2001 we have tortured, we have murdered, we have brutalised and killed the innocent - we have even added our shame at Abu Ghraib to Saddam's shame at Abu Ghraib - and yet we are supposed to forget these terrible crimes as we applaud the swinging corpse of the dictator we created.

more
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article2112555...

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The Nation's John Nichols gets it right about Saddam show trial. execution

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=152494

quote:

"According to Britain's Telegraph newspaper, "There was no comment from the White House, which was determined that the execution should appear to be an Iraqi event." The central role played by the US government in the process was not lost on the Telegraph, however, as the newspaper noted that: "the transfer of Saddam from American to Iraqi custody meant his death was imminent."

The term "transfer" is of course being used in a loose sense, as Hussein was hung not in an Iraqi prison but within the American-controlled Green Zone in central Baghdad.

Now that the killing is done, the governments of Iraq and the United States have confirmed what may have been the worst fear of those who condemned both Saddam Hussein and the US invasion and occupation that removed him from power. The crude lawlessness of Hussein has been replaced by the calculated lawlessness of a new regime. "



i wish i could say i am happy..but i am not..because now..we..you and me are part of the new dictatorship of Iraq..!!..and history will not be kind to us!!

[demobabe]

44. Bingo!

This can't be said enough.

And people think this is about the death penalty. Nope folks, it ain't...

As always - follow the money, follow the money, follow the money...

[S n o w b a l l]

43. You're just as sadistic...

Wanting to see someone die is just as sadistic as he was. Disgusting....

[brentspeak]

111. Judgemental, much?

[OneBlueSky]

45. no, I'm not glad he's dead . . . because of the way it was done . . .

and who it was done by (my government, for all intents and purposes) . . .

state murder of another head of state -- even one we don't like -- is not only immoral, it's also illegal . . . the court and the trial were mere shams to disguise the truth . . .

not that that's ever stopped BushCo before . . . .

[aikoaiko]

46. Nope. I'm glad he was hung.

Justice is rarely proceduraly perfect. He was a bonafide bad guy.

[tkmorris]

49. Can I ask you a question?

You said "He was one, sadistic, evil, megalomaniacal mass-murderer."

How do you know that? Are you certain? I mean really, really sure?. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, I really want to know. So many people have such strong opinions and seem to feel as if they KNOW what kind of person he was. I don't. I know what CNN said, and I know what various internet searches claim, but I don't KNOW what he may be guilty of.

I do know that claims have been made against him and his military forces that were false. That's ALL I know for sure. Are you really certain that he was as bad as you believe?

[sanskritwarrior]

52. I am also glad

I've been to Iraq, what I saw was enough to convince me that he deserved worse. A hanging was too good for him. Early in my tour we were in Kirkuk and we were called to a farmer that found a mass grave. The locals who were Arab told us that these bodies had been there for over a decade (which just might line up with the Anfal campaign). There were mostly women and children in the grave, all told about 300 bodies. I'm a pretty iron stomached guy, buy that sight will be with me and in my nightmares forever. If you've ever seen a little girl's pink rubber slipper over a skeletal foot you don't forget it. My story is just my story, believe it or choose to not believe it. That scene is enough for me to be happy Saddam is dead

[EFerrari]

54. What crap. The guys that made him are thriving.

[sanskritwarrior]

59. Ok great

Is he any less culpable because others made him? Lyndie England is jut as guilty as the General who gave the initial order at Abu Ghraib. I can want justice for all the perps..........and if the small fish is taken down I can still be happy. One fish is better than no fish. And saddam was one murdeing A-hole, regardless of who made him he gave orders to have thousands killed. Others have killed more and they deserve justice as well. But right now we are dealing with a man who let his sons rape at will. But some people don't believe this things. My job is not to convince you, I saw what I saw, I know what happened to those people. Saddam would eventually have been put on trial for that crime as well. Fortunately we did not need to wait to deliver justice to Sadda,

[demobabe]

66. You're right about Saddam's murders

But the thing I see is that we already caught the fish! Death isn't the only form of justice. Putting Saddam in a cell for the rest of his life would have been justice as far as I'm concerned, for the reason he has information that could have helped bring to justice other war crimes committed by corrupt government officials.

Why just land one fish, when you could land a whole boatload?

[EFerrari]

70. They killed him because they needed to. If anything, this is an

obstruction of justice.

[smirkymonkey]

133. That's exactly how I see it...

destroying evidence before the trial. The process was flawed and there is something about the way this was carried out that disturbs me. I can't put my finger on it, but I have this haunting feeling that his execution will come back to haunt us all.

I am sure Bushco is going to sleep well tonight, knowing that many secrets have gone to the grave with Saddam Hussein.

[Midlodemocrat]

154. I think most of us would agree that he was an evil murderer, but

he's not the only one. By the time the travesty in Iraq is finished, Bushco will have killed as many, if not more.

And, what about the genocide in Africa? Are we hell bent on those guys getting their due?

Oh, wait. I forgot. No oil there.

[sanskritwarrior]

72. I hear this claim a lot...

about other war criminals, I never know what to make of it. I take it to mean you wanted Saddam to give up names of non Iraqis that committed something akin to war crimes. I profess ignorance on what you mean........

[demobabe]

81. The intelligence as to why we went to war was faulty

We were supposed to be going after WMDs, but there weren't any, and in order to go to war, there had to be a direct threat of harm to the United States, which there wasn't. This is what the Downing Street Minutes are all about - they show how we were planned to go to war even though the intelligence wasn't there, which is illegal.

I'm sure you'll be hearing more about this in the new Democratic Congress. Just keep an ear open for DSM - Google Downing Street Minutes or Downing Street Memo. I am sure there will be an investigation.

[sanskritwarrior]

85. Thanks for the 411

Will check it out........I like you already.

[EFerrari]

67. We didn't deliver justice, friend, we delivered death.

And that is pathetic.

[sanskritwarrior]

69. To you

not to me and not apparently to a lot of Iraqis. Your opinion is valid, I just disagree, death is justice. Mussolini got justice, Hitler chickened out, Himmler got justice. Uday and Qusay got justice (my unit got those two scumbags) Saddam got justice and maybe one day our own crop of murderers will get justice.

[EFerrari]

73. Death is justice?

Man, this has been a long fucking night.

[sanskritwarrior]

75. In the case of a monster like Saddam

YES. Swift death is too good for him, but that's what we got. Death of an innocent is tragedy, death of monsters is justice. This isn't a hard concept. Look I'm a good progressive, I am just Pro-DP especially when it comes to genocidal monsters.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sanskritwarrior]

83. Ok....

I am no sadist, I do not relish anyone's death unless they have done great wrong. Saddam did mucho grande wrong, I do take some happiness that he no longer draws breath. I'm sure his victims relatives take joy that he is dead. I don't want a fight, but why is it sadistic BS to want a monster dead? I don't get it. Are the relatives of the victims of Saddam also sadists??? I'm just trying to understand. How can a progressive not be happy that a mass murdering genocidal asshat is dead? There is some kind of disconnect.

[The Wizard]

84. One of the voices

of those with the goods on Poppy Bush has been silenced. Junior abused power to protect Poppy. Remember his first edict was to seal Poppy's and Reagan's records. The incoming Democrats won't be able to subpoena Hussein to testify as to his cooperation with inspectors or any other matter effecting the Bush family. Saddam, like Noriega, bin Laden, and Ken Kay, was at one time on the Bush payroll.

[sanskritwarrior]

86. Ok I see your point

But Saddam's crimes against Iraqis outweigh our needs. At least that's how I see it. And I am just a newbie and not a very smart one either. :D

[S n o w b a l l]

76. Death is only justice if you fear it....

...in this case, it was martydom. Revenge killing isn't justice.

[sanskritwarrior]

79. Saddam feared death

that's why he was found in a hole in the ground in his tribal region. It is also hard to make a martyr out of a secular man from an obscure Iraqi tribe. Zarqawi was no martyr because he was hated by most Iraqis, Saddam will not be a martyr for the same reason. I might be wrong, time will tell.

[demobabe]

71. Oh, and BTW, welcome to the DU

And thank you for your service to our country. Was just curious if you served in Desert Storm, or in this latest boondoggle? Any rate, glad you're here in one piece.

[sanskritwarrior]

74. Latest boondoggle

I ain't that old..........:D

I also was in Afghanistan in 2002....

7 more years and I can retire. I figure under current deployment levels that means 3 more trips to Iraq. :(

[demobabe]

78. Well, talk is hopeful for troop withdrawal by 2008

But who even knows. Still will need troops in that region regardless...

Just wow - two tours already... you have my best wishes and prayers to stay safe if you're sent back out there.

[sanskritwarrior]

80. Thanks for the warm thoughts

I don't have a lot of faith in the Congress. There is too much money for people to make off the blood of soldiers. The new bosses are starting to sound like the old bosses We shall see, now I'm off to bed.

[tkmorris]

55. I believe you

But my problem is this: you saw a grave. No argument. How do you leap from that to Saddam being responsible? Such a reaction seems based on emotion rather than logic if you'll forgive me saying so.

People are trying to fill my head with propaganda daily. The same people say Saddam is guilty of murder. I've not seen it proven. Have you? If so, show me. Make me feel better about this execution. Help me feel that it was righteous.

[sanskritwarrior]

57. Al Anfal

was ordered by Saddam in response to Papa Bush's words to the Kurds and Shia to rise up. Now some would say that Bush 1 is responsible, he asked the peeps to rise up, they did and then Saddam ordered them killed.

Ok, I understand your quandry. Not everyone has a "Road to damascus" moment like I had. There is evidence all over the internet some from Human rights watch, some from other less reputable organizations. It is late here, I owe you some evidence, I'll bookmark this thread and get back to you.

[PassingFair]

246. I've seen a lot of pink slippers on dead Iraqi

feet killed by AMERICANS.

Do you support the death penalty for those who have ordered
the strikes on innocent Iraqis on OUR side too?

600,000 dead Iraqis can't be wrong.

[SOS]

276. Anfal was 1986-1989

Bush's betrayal of the Shiites happened in 1991.

[Catherine Vincent]

58. I drive by mass graves daily in Texas.

Here we call them cemetaries.

[sanskritwarrior]

62. Hello fellow Texan

what part are you from, I'm originally a SE Texas boy myself.

In this case a mass grave was mostly women and children with their hands bound with a single bullet to the back of the head. That's a little different than the cemetery I used to visit my grandpa at........

[renate]

61. if Saddam didn't do it, who else would?

He was a complete and utter dictator. If there were mass graves, it was on his watch.

I'm so sorry you have that image in your head. Remember that the little girl's fear and pain is long over, and she is at peace now.

I am really impressed by the people here who can work up any regret that Saddam Hussein was executed--truly I am. (I originally wrote "who have sympathy for Saddam Hussein," but I realized that I was wrong about that. There's a very real difference between being against the death penalty and being sympathetic towards a mass murderer, and nobody here is saying the man was a nice guy who got framed.) I'm just not a good enough person to look past his deeds to be sorry that he's gone. The more misery he died in, the better, in my opinion.

If it brings even a speck of comfort to those who were injured by him, then I see his death as a good thing. It's all about the survivors and what they want.

[sanskritwarrior]

65. Real Justice

wuld have been to tie him up and deposit him in Kurd controlled Halabja, Iraq or in the case of this trial Dujail, Iraq...........

[Hell Hath No Fury]

227. And real justice for George W. Bush...

would be to airdrop him into a Sunni controled area of Iraq. After all, everything Saddam did to the Iraqi people, George W. Bush has. :shrug:

[NYCGirl]

121. Check out reports from Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

It's all been reported by those organizations.

http://hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=iraq

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/iraq/index.do

[Donald Ian Rankin]

129. Yes, in the same way that I'm sure the Holocaust happened.

Many of Saddam's crimes were a matter of very public record indeed. There is not the least possible doubt that "He was one, sadistic, evil, megalomaniacal mass-murderer", and revisionist attempts to suggest otherwise are no better than holocaust denial.

[rpgamerd00d]

172. Thanks, that would have been my reply too. -nt

[CJCRANE]

51. My feeling is: so what?

I don't have any emotions about it one way or another. I've heard interviews with Iraqis who are happy and one with a Kurd who is unhappy because the trial into Saddam's crimes against the Kurds was never finished. Whether Saddam dies or stays in prison doesn't affect me personally.

I see it more as being about the timing.

The announcement of the death sentence was timed to affect the November elections.

And the execution was timed to take place the weekend before the new Congress is seated (and probably also to give * a success to crow about in his SOTU address).

[S n o w b a l l]

63. So what??

Apathy = what is wrong with America today. So it doesn't affect you and you're not worried about it. How nice for you and so very sad for the rest of us.

[CJCRANE]

77. I'm against

the death penalty so I don't feel any happiness that Saddam is dead. On the other hand he was a brutal dictator so I don't feel any sadness either. So what's left, apart from a kind of indifference?

So with the emotional baggage out of the way, I'm more interested in the process. I didn't really see his trial as legitimate. It should have been in an international court in a neutral country.

[Dutch]

138. Very much my feelings. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

68. No doubt you're right. It's not hard work for this administration molding public perception.

They've got some propagandists working with them who've been around since long ago doing the same thing, planting articles in foreign papers which then, surprise, get picked up and repeated here as the gospel truth, sending bogus LTTES from bogus authorities to newspapers, etc., etc., etc.

It doesn't take much to fool people who live only through emotional attachment. Those people never take the time, never bother to look more deeply for the truth of anything.

Stupid, reactionary people are a dime a dozen, and the Republicans need them to keep control.

The timing WAS cynical, and it looks just the way you described it.

[silverojo]

60. You're not alone n/t

[slowry]

87. Not the what, but the how.

I'm not particarly upset by the thought of Saddam Hussein being dead. That's not to say I'd DANCE AROUND HIS CORPSE, either. Here is a dictator who committed terrible crimes (in the 80's, with the support of many who orchestrated this charade). However, being "not upset" is miles away from "glad he's dead".

What purpose did killing him serve? Need I remind you that he wasn't a threat to the USA or anyone really? This was a show of power, an act of revenge, for crimes everyone sheds crocodile tears for now, because it is still politically expedient.

No, I'm pretty sure most of the disgust you've borne witness to is a reaction to how this all went about, who it all went about by -- not the fact that some vile shithead like Saddam is dead and gone.

Revenge killings don't solve terrorism (heck, this whole mess wasn't about terrorism in the first place, though I suppose it is now).

[beam me up scottie]

89. You'd love it where I live. They enjoyed it so much, they rang the church bells.

I can't remember the last time I heard them at night.

[Bluebear]

91. Nothing so religious as a good hanging.

Ding. Dong.

Fucking sick society.

[beam me up scottie]

92. Isn't it?

I may lose my job Tuesday.

The first one that gloats gets whacked with a bible.

over and over and over again...

[cassiepriam]

93. I am for the death penalty and abhor what we did to Saddam.

Invaded his country and then murdered him for his oil.
After a farce of a kangaroo court.

[cassiepriam]

94. N Korea and Iran better get nuke capability now. They could be

the next ones in line.

Invasion of their country and public executions of the leaders.

[NoPasaran]

95. By no means

I only regret that the soldiers who captured him three years ago didn't just toss a grenade into his spider hole and save us all a lot of bother.

[Crunchy Frog]

96. It's not the fact that he's dead that bothers me.

It's the manner in which it occured, and the likely fallout. This thing should have been done according to internationally agreed on legal standards. He should not have been executed until they were done with his trial for genocide against the Kurds.

This whole thing took place under the aegis of a president who deserves execution every bit as much as Saddam did.

I don't see any good coming out of this. Just more senseless deaths, and a bad legal precedent that could come back to bite our own country.

[Major Hogwash]

98. Exactly! Why wasn't Saddam taken to the Hague and tried by an international court

Instead of being locked up in Iraq, tried in Iraq, executed in Iraq?

Milosevic was tried by the international court and his verdict was accepted by most of the international community as being just, guilty of heinous crimes.

[prole_for_peace]

186. That is it exactly!

why wasn't he tried in the international court? cause they just wanted to go throught the motions and then kill him so it was easier to do it in iraq where "we" control the government.

if pinochet, charles taylor etc get to live after all they have done where is the justice in this act? pinochet was WAY more of a monster. oh but i forgot he only murdered leftists :sarcasm:

if the goverment in darfur is allowed by the international community to keep doing what they are currently doing with only a warning of useless sanctions then there is no way this can be called justice.

[William769]

97. Your not alone.

He was a sadistic dictator, I say good riddance.

[distantearlywarning]

99. No.

I'm happy he's dead. He was an evil, vicious man. But I'm not entirely anti-death penalty either.

[MyNameGoesHere]

100. You are not for the death penalty.

however you seem to support state sanctioned murder. I would ask you one thing. If you support it why not become a hangman or something? If you support something like murder then YOU should do the deed and not let someone else do your dirty work.

[baldguy]

102. I'm tired of seeing America commit war crimes.

[brentspeak]

112. How is Saddam's execution a "war crime"?

[baldguy]

141. How is it not?

Saddam was killed for the sole reason that George Bush doesn't like him. What sort of justice is that?

[Nikki Stone1]

103. There are some who thought it was a good (or appropriate) thing. See

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3004057

[pdxmom]

104. I'm not glad or sad. Can't seem to find any emotion other than anger

over the fact that I believe this was a hurried execution to keep Saddam from naming names in his other upcoming trials, and the way this has been handled by the media. Watching all these "histories" of Saddam while they waited for word of the execution and there was not ONE WORD about the U.S. role in enabling this madman.

[spanone]

106. If you buy into murder for murder then happiness reigns. I don't.

[Omphaloskepsis]

107. I don't really give a shit about him..

But it was a horrible move, the death toll is about to go up. They should have hid him and never mentioned his name ever again. But the dumb fucks wanted to play politics. Well, fuck, I don't know anybody in the armed forces. Doesn't affect me. Well, I pay taxes..

[JNelson6563]

108. Gosh, this isn't a single issue thing

Hooray! The bad guy is dead.

Ok, onto the why-this-wasn't-a-great-idea column:

The US has completely disregarded the established precedents of how such a trial should be handled.

This co-conspirator of the BFEE was whacked before he could talk.

Though the people of the US are blissfully ignorant of Saddam ties with Team Bush and our nation's role in his hold on power, the people in the ME know full well. We supported Iraq in their war against Iran, we sold them many weapons and did various other things for our pal Saddam. Now we go in and obliterate their nation and kill our former ally. We need many allies in the ME, I hardly think this series of events and the subsequent outcome will help us in this endeavor.

And on and on the list goes. But these reasons are somewhat more complex than the bumper sticker mentality so many here in America subscribe to. So much easier (not to mention more fun!) to just kinda cling to the "We got 'im!" sentiment.

Oy.

Julie

[WritingIsMyReligion]

109. I'm not a fan of Saddam's by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not "glad" he's dead.

I personally have no right to be "glad" he's dead. He's never done anything to me or to my family, or even to anybody I know. So being really glad that he's dead wouldn't accomplish anything for me, besides maybe a few hours of dubious joy. There's no dancing in the streets here.

On principle I just don't think it's appropriate to ever be really freakin' happy at another's death. If GWB were to kick the can I'd be far from upset, but I'd be more relieved than truly joyous.

:)

[brentspeak]

113. It's appropriate that he's been executed. He got what he deserved.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

114. Should he be sent to the Hague and sentenced to life in prison, you'd be annoyed then? -nt

[Vogon_Glory]

115. I Can't Say That I'll Miss Saddam, Either

I can't say that I'll miss Saddam Hussein either. Saddam Hussein was a brutal, murderous tyrant who put the Iraqi people through a long, hideous nightmare, and I'm pleased he's gone to the afterlife.

I oppose the death penalty, though. I oppose the death penalty less because of ethical reasons than because most human-run criminal justice systems are flawed, evidence is often tainted, witnesses often lie, and because some prosecutors are more interested in serving their careers than in serving justice.

I suspect, though, that many Iraqis wish that there had been a second noose next to Saddam's, and that they wish that #43's neck was in the space between the rope and the hangman's knot.

[BreweryYardRat]

116. You're not the only one.

Goodbye and good riddance to him.

[k_jerome]

117. i'm ecstatic. nt.

[WinkyDink]

118. "He was one, sadistic, evil, megalomaniacal mass-murderer. " Oh, you meant SADDAM.

I thought you meant the happily-breathing Bush.

[flyarm]

124. dupe du acting weird..n/t

[Bluebear]

142. You're damn right it is.

And not because of dupes.

[flyarm]

125. dupe again!! delete n/t

[flyarm]

126. who is the brutal Iraqi dictator now????????

hmmmmmmmmmmm..a little man from crawford!!
who is now running rape rooms for children in Iraq..
screaming little ten year olds be brutalized for their mommies!!

oh yes ........now i feel good!!

wow ...i didn't know i could feel so glad!!

whew..i am sure glad saddam is dead..that brutal monster...now we can be the monster all by ourselves...

how many Iraqi's have we killed now in Iraq..well according to Lancet ..and Johns Hopkins..on the low side 655,000 and on the more realistic side 950,000

wow i sure feel good Saddam is gone..

now we can use those bombs and chemicals all by ourselves!!

without the interference of a little two bit dictator..

our self created little two bit dictator!!

and of course dead men don't talk..now there is no worry of the * cabals secrets ever being revealed..

that makes me feel soo good!!

did i forget add this...:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:


The Nation's John Nichols gets it right about Saddam show trial. execution

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=152494

quote:

"According to Britain's Telegraph newspaper, "There was no comment from the White House, which was determined that the execution should appear to be an Iraqi event." The central role played by the US government in the process was not lost on the Telegraph, however, as the newspaper noted that: "the transfer of Saddam from American to Iraqi custody meant his death was imminent."

The term "transfer" is of course being used in a loose sense, as Hussein was hung not in an Iraqi prison but within the American-controlled Green Zone in central Baghdad.

Now that the killing is done, the governments of Iraq and the United States have confirmed what may have been the worst fear of those who condemned both Saddam Hussein and the US invasion and occupation that removed him from power. The crude lawlessness of Hussein has been replaced by the calculated lawlessness of a new regime. "



i wish i could say i am happy..but i am not..because now..we..you and me are part of the new dictatorship of Iraq..!!..and history will not be kind to us!!
international laws be damned ...we say as Americans!!

[HughBeaumont]

127. ALL war criminals should be imprisoned.

ALL of them.

Gets my drift?

Not going to happen though, since we're apparently "the good guys".

[mondo joe]

130. I'm fine with his death. The means by which it happened - invasion, occupation,

sham trial - I have real problems with.

[leesa]

132. First of all, the Iraqis didn't do it, we did. Secondly, most of what we have been

told about Saddam is pure bullshit. We needed a real trial (where 3 lawyers aren't killed) and we needed him to testify against the bigger criminals of the Bush Crime Family.


Don't you believe in REAL justice?

[progressivebydesign]

179. Brilliantly put, Leesa. My thoughts exactly. A REAL trial would be good. n/t

[rpgamerd00d]

185. Sorry, I reject your premise totally.

It was the Iraqi's that did it, whether you believe it or not. At any time, the Government of Iraq could order the US out of Iraq - they choose not to. They are responsible for all of the choices they make each and every day of thier lives. They chose to have a trial under THEIR LAWS (not US law) and by THEIR LAWS Saddam was convicted, sentenced, and executed. You are not an Iraq citizen. Your opinion on their laws doesn't matter since you don't vote in their elections.

Second, virtually everything about Saddam is true. He is a mass murderer. He did allow his sons to rape women. He did commit horrible acts and war crimes. To think otherwise is akin to disbelieving the Holocaust.

REAL Justice is killing someone like Saddam.

[Ms. Clio]

240. "At any time, the Government of Iraq could order the US out of Iraq"

Such complete bullshit.

There, I've rejected your premise. Kneel before me. I have won.

[roamer65]

134. This was a hit by one crime family on another.

The Bush crime family vs the Hussein crime family. I have never found mob wars to be exciting.

[ronnykmarshall]

137. Word!

[Odin2005]

146. It's for people like Saddam and * that the DP should be reseved for.

I am generally against the death penalty, though I make an exception for war criminals and mass murderers. They need to be executed so there is no chance of them ever comming back to power.

[Texasgal]

147. I'm with ya...

I've been pounced on.

The only time I haven;t is when I posted pictured of what Saddam did to the kurds.

I am glad he is gone, justice hass been served.

[Pathwalker]

151. Are you glad he can't testify against Rummy and Cheney?

Rummy sold him the gas, Cheney sold him the means to use it, and now he can't testify against them. YAY!
And these bastards will get away with that - are you thrilled by that, too?

[mdmc]

152. Who would Jesus hang?

I am sure many others feel the same way as you bro...

Bye the way, have you played BULLY yet, by Rockstar? It is a good game.

What else are you not 'liberal' about?

[rpgamerd00d]

176. I think its "liberal" to support the death penalty.

Therefore, your question doesn't make much sense.

[mdmc]

205. ok

:eyes: (the rolling eyes are because compassion and empathy define 'liberal'. Conservative ideology is grounded in power and revenge.

Anywho,
The drug war can also be considered "liberal" as it seeks a "big government" solution to a problem that is really one of liberty and independence (which are conservative values, I guess :shrug: ).

Anyway, what about BULLY? Have you played it?

[robcon]

153. I'm glad he's dead.

We're well rid of him.

[beam me up scottie]

155. The Iraqi people did not "bring their dictator to Justice"

We did.

And it wasn't justice.

[mtnsnake]

156. You implying that DU isn't glad that Saddam got justice is just plain wrong.

I don't think there are too many people on this forum who aren't satisified that Saddam got his due. Most DU'ers just happen to be intelligent enough to know that there are more perspectives to this than just one, so enough with making like you're the only one on the forum who recognizes how evil that fucker was. We all know Saddam was vicious and evil and deserved to be held fully accountable, which he was.

[Stuckinthebush]

161. Indeed

This whole Saddam thing is filled with shades of gray.

[Lorien]

157. You know damn well that you are not

but Robert Sheer makes it clearer than I can why so many here are concerned, to say the least: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3005043

[Ms. Clio]

168. just another excuse to bash DUers

if you say something mean about Ford, you're a loony leftist.

If you don't say something mean about Saddam's execution, you're a loony leftist.

It works very well for them.

[Kerrytravelers]

158. You're not alone, but I disagree with you. I'm against the death penalty.

My family members and I have made it perfectly clear that we do not want the state to seek the death penalty in our names if the need should ever arise. I am against it no matter who is on trial.

I know plenty of people who are in favor of it. Generally, those for it don't celebrate death. They believe it is a just sentence, but no one I know is actually joyful because someone has died- no matter what the circumstance.

And, after all is said and done, I don't feel one bit safer now that saddam is dead.

[Jiyah]

159. If the execution actually served a legitimate purpose, then yes. . .

but this was a "he tried to kill my daddy, so I'm going to kill him" revenge killing.

If this war wasn't based on a pack of lies, then yes, I am happy. . .but all this did was cannonize a marytr for every terrorist and Arab that wants to see us die.

[LWolf]

160. Probably not.

Personally, I am shamed by the joy my species takes in the killing of their own kind. Frankly, I don't see any difference between bloodthirsty enjoyment of Saddam's death and his own taking of life. If you really think that killing of other humans is wrong, then you can't rationalize your way into thinking that killing Saddam is "right."

I think that it's wrong to kill anything without cause. Appropriate "cause" would include survival (food, shelter) and self defense. Killing as a judgement, for "revenge," is just as bad as killing for greed or power, in my opinion.

I don't have to approve of Saddam, to like Saddam, or to wish him well to say that his killing was wrong, and I'm sorry it happened.

[devilgrrl]

163. Only in your small mind you are.

:sarcasm:

[NNN0LHI]

164. Do you support the use of torture too?

Just curious.

Don

[rpgamerd00d]

174. No. Do you support child rape?

Just curious.

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

165. You can always tell a countries commitment to human rights

with how they deal with the worst violators.

[otohara]

166. He's Gone, So Are Thousands of Iraqi's

and I'm not talking about the one's he killed.

Are we even yet?

[Th1onein]

167. This kind of punishment is wrong, whoever we apply it to.

It's wrong. Period. I am not glad.

[Mz Pip]

173. I'm not whining about

the injustice of his execution. I doubt his death will make much difference. There will be another creep to take his place at some point.

I voted against the death penalty when it came up in CA in the 70s, but I'm not out there taking part in candlelight vigils everytime a child killer is executed, either.

I can't muster up much sympathy for Saddam or any outrage over his execution.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Generator]

175. "Go back to Freeperville!"

That's what someone said to me. And that post is still there-oh MODS! I guess it's true if anyone dares to agree with the majority opinion on DU then you are a "Freeper." Which is technically a stupid site on the web which I wish I had never heard of.

I'm not even pro-death penalty-but to have the temerity to suggest Saddam deserved to die-which is pretty much the barest of comments that I would think anyone could agree on makes you one of THEM.

I hear someone suggested you are pro-torture down thread. Such nice people around here heh?

I am NOT happy that he's dead. All it brings is the sadness of the whole soridness of his life. But I know he deserved to die so I cannot be outraged-no matter if the dreaded Americans were the ones who killed him or anyone on the planet-it doesn't matter to me. I'm hoping it brings some relief someday to someone in Iraq that he's dead.

I'm frankly freaking stunned about the people screaming fair trial-and justice. As my husband said, justice would have been a bullet in his brain years and years ago by one of his victims. How many Du'ers support that? Oh no, the only justice is this fantasy world of a ten years trial for all the bad guys in the world. Where is this world police? Where is this world justice system? It's a FANTASY while real people die, and any chance that he could have any power in the future kind of makes the necessary killing of dictators.

I wish Saddam never existed but know that he's dead, all it brings is sadness and dread for the future of the Iraqi's in reality. But maybe someday..they can move on. On balance his death is meaningless because the war and the wounds have no chance of healing as long as we are there and as long as no solution to the ethnic and religion divisions in Iraq exist.

[jcrew2001]

177. don't care

His death only brings closure, hopefully, to the Iraq war.

But I don't personally care that he is dead or if he was serving life in prison. Once he was captured, he was no longer a threat.

I would be much happier when Bin Ladin is killed.

I just think the Bushco made Saddam to be this huge enemy like Osama, and once we captured Saddam, it didn't make any difference, so I realized that Saddam wasn't a true threat.

He attacked Israel and Kuwait, but he could never attack the US or would he ever purposely engage the US because he knew he would get whooped.

Saddam's "evilness" was driven by Bushco and it backfired and made me realize what a fraud Bush is.

[Beaverhausen]

178. Was his execution worth 3000+ American lives? 600,000+ Iraqi lives?

Was it worth it?

Not to me.

I'm glad he's dead. I'm not glad about the circumstances of his death.

[rpgamerd00d]

181. I agree with you 100%.

I wasn't posting about "worth". Just the event.

[Ms. Clio]

184. no, that's not what your post was about

It was a disingenuous "look at me, I'm all alone on DU with my happiness about Saddam's death" cry for attention.

[Name removed]

187. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ms. Clio]

189. Back atcha, sweetcheeks -- oh, and make sure you see my edit, too

:rofl:

And you edited your post to add "Senator Frist???"

My, you're the witty one.

I hope everyone catches that before it goes poof. It's such a good 'un.

U got da skillz, dude.

[beam me up scottie]

214. Ain't he somethin?

We're the ones with a problem, dontcha know?

We're the ones who don't belong on a liberal website.

:rofl:

[Ms. Clio]

218. Yummy and delicious

:evilgrin:

[beam me up scottie]

225. He's like this demented little energizer bunny.

he keeps going and going and going...DAMN!

Ms Clio, did you know your puppy was going to do that?

I hope she doesn't choke on him.

:rofl:

[Ms. Clio]

237. She really didn't mean it!

Come, we shall have some fun now!' thought Alice. `I'm glad they've begun asking riddles.--I believe I can guess that,' she added aloud.

`Do you mean that you think you can find out the answer to it?' said the March Hare.

`Exactly so,' said Alice.

`Then you should say what you mean,' the March Hare went on.

`I do,' Alice hastily replied; `at least--at least I mean what I say--that's the same thing, you know.'

`Not the same thing a bit!' said the Hatter. `You might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see"!'

`You might just as well say,' added the March Hare, `that "I like what I get" is the same thing as "I get what I like"!'

`You might just as well say,' added the Dormouse, who seemed to be talking in his sleep, `that "I breathe when I sleep" is the same thing as "I sleep when I breathe"!'

`It IS the same thing with you,' said the Hatter, and here the conversation dropped, and the party sat silent for a minute, while Alice thought over all she could remember about ravens and writing-desks, which wasn't much.

--Alice in Wonderland


When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

--Through the Looking Glass

[beam me up scottie]

241. Oh, that is perfect!

This kid is addicted to video games and has no clue what the hell life is all about.

It's about great literature.

It's about leaving the world a better place when you're gone.

And, most important of all, it's about puppies!

[rpgamerd00d]

243. I'm pretty sure my daughter is older than you are, fyi. -nt

[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ms. Clio]

250. and kittens! We mustn't forget the kittens!

I've got one of those loony leftist households where they both live in peace and harmony.

[beam me up scottie]

251. That's it, WE'RE TAKING CONTROL OF THIS THREAD!

Hijack in progress!

[Ms. Clio]

253. I'm sure I heard those kittens demand to go to Cuba!

that is just the greatest pic!

[beam me up scottie]

255. We could start our own movement!

The Kitten Crusades!

The Puppy Political Action Committee!

POST YOUR PICTURES HERE!!!

[Ms. Clio]

264. Did you know that except for his unfortunate captives, dogs hate Bush?

http://dogshatebush.com/dogs_001.htm


Meet the dogs. They come from all over. Arriving mysteriously by email. Different colors, different breeds, different sizes. But they all have one thing in common. They are all dogs --

Against Bush.

"I hate George Bush more than the vaccuum cleaner."

"I say we take him for a drive, stop the car, and let him out to take a walk. Then jump in and drive away real fast."

Electorate College my ass."

"I'm still wondering about that Florida thing."

"How many Americans declared banktuptcy last year?"

we all hate george bush

"That dog won't hunt. That dog won't even fish."



And etcetera! Pages of cute doggy pictures, so does that count?

Also a link to the companion site, of course! http://catshatebush.com/

[beam me up scottie]

268. "A screwdriver. A light socket. Not witnesses."

I can't stand it!!!

Thank you!





Oh, look, our little friend has moved on to control other conversations: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3006855

[Ms. Clio]

271. and with similar success

:rofl:

[Beaverhausen]

190. well, can you understand the difference?

Being glad that a brutal monster is dead and no longer a threat to anyone is entirely different than being angry at the circumstances of his death.

Don't get mad at DUers who manage to keep their own personal moral values intact in the face of this issue.

I am against the death penalty. Period.

Killing people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong - doesn't make any sense.

[rpgamerd00d]

194. Thats not why we kill people.

We do not kill people to show OTHER people killing is wrong.

We kill people WHO kill people, to prevent them from killing MORE people.

Keep in mind, life in prison = death. So don't say "We don't have to kill them, we can give them life in prison." Life in prison = "death by aging" instead of "death by hanging" or "death by injection" or "death by eletrocution", etc.

[Ms. Clio]

196. only in your world does "life in prison = death"

let's just keep that straight, shall we?

[rpgamerd00d]

201. Wrong, in everyone world life in prison = death.

A Life Sentence (which is defined as "spending the rest of your life behind bars until you die") is the EXACT SAME SENTENCE as a Death Sentence. The only difference is the method of execution. In a death sentence, the method of execution is hanging, eletrocution, lethal injection, etc. In a Life Sentence, the method of execution is ... aging.

In BOTH CASES you've sentenced the person to DIE. One just TAKES LONGER.

Care to prove me wrong? Or do you just want to resort to more insults and continue to fail to defend your assertions?

[Ms. Clio]

206. Mostly because in the real world, a "life sentence" does not mean that at all

In the real world, most people sentenced to life in prison will eventually be released. Very much alive. Which they would not have been had they actually been sentenced to DEATH.

[rpgamerd00d]

213. OK, that is true. Life = 25 years is a joke and should be corrected in our...

... judicial system.

I agree on that one.

I was talkin about Life w/o parole, or the "10 consecutive life w/o parole" sentences here.

[Beaverhausen]

211. Actually the difference is- life in prison means you are ALIVE

and you are alive to suffer every day behind bars, no freedom, and lots of time to think about what got you there. No time to spend with family. No peaceful passing to the other side.

The only thing executing Saddam managed to accomplish was his silence, which is what BushCo needed.

[Beaverhausen]

199. Life in prison isn't the same as killing someone

Life in prison is exactly that- they spend the rest of their lives in prison where they won't have the opportunity to kill anymore.

Killing is murder- PERIOD.

[rpgamerd00d]

204. That is complete bullshit and you know it.

You know DAMN WELL that a life sentence = death sentence. You just RATIONALIZE it in your head so you can bring your mind to accept your actions by thinking that somehow its "a more humane way to kill someone". And that lets you accept the activity.

[Beaverhausen]

215. WHAT??? That makes no sense

If you want to believe that, fine. But its not what I believe.

I am really having a hard time following your logic here. Please tell me how death=life? I can't wait.

[beam me up scottie]

216. It seems to be some sort of perverse theory:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3004153&mesg_id=3006577

[Beaverhausen]

217. Wow. I need more coffee to deal with this logic

:crazy:

[beam me up scottie]

220. I think I'll need drugs.

Lots of them.

Because he's apparently stopped taking his.

[rpgamerd00d]

219. OK, no problem.

When someone commits a crime, we have two choices:
1) Temporary removal from Society, with rehabilitation with the intent to release them back into society.
2) Permanent removal from Society.

With me so far?

OK, so, once we remove someone permanently from society, thats it. They are done. Game over. The amount of time their body stays alive is pretty much irrelevant to SOCIETY. WE don't care, and WE are not affected by it. That person is GONE from society FOREVER AND EVER. NEVER coming back.

Therefore, TO SOCIETY, that person is "dead", regardless if their body is physically alive or not.

So, as a SOCIETY, you ADVOCATE the removing of a person from society permanently. In your head, you can rationalize that action as "acceptable" because you know in your head that they are actually alive in a jail cell somewhere, getting food+water, and waiting for Natural Death to occur. Yet, your same brain can't somehow rationalize putting that person to immediate death? Don't you find that odd?

To me, its a matter of pure practicality. Putting them to death has no effect on society (because we established that above), with the exception that they are no longer consuming food + water resources, and costing taxpayer money to support them.

That is what I meant.

[beam me up scottie]

221. Killing a person is a matter of practicality.

Isn't that what Saddam thought?

[rpgamerd00d]

222. An insult, but no counter point. Is your position that weak?

[beam me up scottie]

226. It's an observation and a legitimate question.

Isn't that what Saddam thought?

[rpgamerd00d]

228. I have no idea. If I had to guess, I'd say no.

Now, care to defend your position?

[beam me up scottie]

230. Why would you say no?

I have no position, try defending yours instead of attacking people.

[rpgamerd00d]

232. I did, I'll cut/paste it a second time.

When someone commits a crime, we have two choices:
1) Temporary removal from Society, with rehabilitation with the intent to release them back into society.
2) Permanent removal from Society.

With me so far?

OK, so, once we remove someone permanently from society, thats it. They are done. Game over. The amount of time their body stays alive is pretty much irrelevant to SOCIETY. WE don't care, and WE are not affected by it. That person is GONE from society FOREVER AND EVER. NEVER coming back.

Therefore, TO SOCIETY, that person is "dead", regardless if their body is physically alive or not.

So, as a SOCIETY, you ADVOCATE the removing of a person from society permanently. In your head, you can rationalize that action as "acceptable" because you know in your head that they are actually alive in a jail cell somewhere, getting food+water, and waiting for Natural Death to occur. Yet, your same brain can't somehow rationalize putting that person to immediate death? Don't you find that odd?

To me, its a matter of pure practicality. Putting them to death has no effect on society (because we established that above), with the exception that they are no longer consuming food + water resources, and costing taxpayer money to support them.

That is what I meant.
==============================

If you disagree with that, why don't you say why?

[beam me up scottie]

234. You're not defending your position.

Why is what you believe about taking a human life different that what Saddam believes?

[rpgamerd00d]

236. I control the conversation, not you.

If you disagree with the premise of my arguement, state your disagreement.

Otherwise, I will accept your capitulation on the point and move on.

Be honest. Its because you can't justify "life in prison" as humane, isn't it? Its because I've shown that its just a human rationalization that allows you to "accept" a life sentence and feel good about yourself, even though deep down inside you know you just sentenced that person to death. But since you "feel good" about it, that makes it "ok". That's really what you want to say, isn't it?

[beam me up scottie]

238. You "control" the conversation, do you?

I'm beginning to understand why a human life is nothing but a practicality to you.

No further input is needed.'

Thank you.

You can go now.

See the nurse on the way out.

[rpgamerd00d]

Capitulation accepted. -nt

[Ms. Clio]

242. you're HIL-arious!

All your premises are belong to us!

[beam me up scottie]

244. Did you see Nurse Ratchet on your way in?

We're going to need some help with this one.

[beam me up scottie]

252. MAKE WAY!

[Ms. Clio]

258. If I say it's a lion, who are you to argue?

Let me say it again, to prove it must be so. I shall say it a third time, and make it completely binding.

There, you are now vanquished utterly.

[beam me up scottie]

261. No, um, I control the, um... I control ...what was I saying?

This is how bush would talk to us if he could post here, you know what I'm saying?

[Ms. Clio]

265. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator

[beam me up scottie]

270. "It's good to be King"

We should do this more often! :D

Most people at work never get the literature or film references.

[Ms. Clio]

272. I accept your premise!

Very enjoyable, as always!

:D

Speaking of work, I really must tear myself away for now -- have a great afternoon!

[beam me up scottie]

273. Oh, one last quote, IBTL!

Of course not, I don't believe in cruel and unusual punishment.


That is why people sentenced to life w/o parole should be killed.

Its very cruel and unusual to make them live in a cell for the rest of their life, imho.

Have a good one!

I enjoyed this very much, it made a miserable wretch of human being seem almost comical. :hug:

[rpgamerd00d]

275. History of the World, Part 1. Mel Brooks.

[beam me up scottie]

277. Very good. How about this one?:

Of course not, I don't believe in cruel and unusual punishment.

That is why people sentenced to life w/o parole should be killed.

Its very cruel and unusual to make them live in a cell for the rest of their life, imho.

[PassingFair]

254. "I control the conversation, not you."

OK, it's official, girls, we're in the OUTER LIMITS!

Do not attempt to adjust the controls.

[beam me up scottie]

256. ROFLMAO!!!

I hear the theme music playing in my head!

:rofl:

[PassingFair]

257. Do you believe that there is no type of "society" in prison?

I know housewives that have less interaction with "society"
than prisoners.

You are chasing your own tail with this argument.

[rpgamerd00d]

259. I would find it hard to justify the term "society" to encompass prison life.

I think the word "subsistence" is a better word.

[PassingFair]

280. Let me see if I have the math right then....

SUBSISTENCE = death ?

Is THAT right?


It's all SO confusing....

:crazy:

[Beaverhausen]

262. well, for one thing, are you aware how many death sentences have been overturned...

...with the discovery of new evidence proving the convicted person is in fact innocent?

So PERMANENTLY removing someone is just that- permanent. So if evidence comes up that "oops, that now-dead person wasn't guilty" it is too late. I'm not willing to take the chance of killing innocent people.

Secondly - Saddam being kept alive would have meant he could have been tried for other crimes, and lots more information would have come out - not the least of which would have been information regarding the US's involvement in his actions. I'm sorry that Saddam won't have the chance to sing.

[ScreamingMeemie]

200. No, you are not the only one..BUT why can't I ask about things

like getting excited over this when Osama-the real terrorist- is at large. Why are we so engrossed with the Saddam execution when that man is still free?

Saddam Hussein was a horrible man, a despot. Who did NOT order the killings of thousands of innocent WTC victims. End story for me. The hanging of Saddam Hussein is only going to cost more of our soldiers' lives... over one Boy King's need for revenge.

[gulliver]

208. I take it you checked and found no one else here ...

... with a prior post saying they were glad Saddam was dead? Otherwise, why would you ask if you were the only member who was glad?

The short answer to your question is "No."

Am I the only DUer offended by the tone of your post?

[loveandlight]

231. I am more sad for our country every time we do a delebrate killing

The US has been running around the globe for too many years creating monsters who do our killing for us. We supported Saddam in all that he did, then when he got it in his head to be independent from us, he became this horrible human being who needed to get taken down. That was his crime. Did that deserve death? Did Iraq deserve to be destroyed and so many innocent people there killed and our own soldiers' lives taken in vain because we no longer wanted to support Saddam?

I doubt that anyone thinks that when Saddam Hussein did was good, but I think so long as we keep promoting a mentality that this kind of deliberate killing (to use the word execution just puts a pretty word over what it really is) deserves encouragement, we will never get out of the war mentality we have in this country. Let's go around and kill every one around the world we think is a bad person, everyone who has done harm to their own country and to others. Let's be the judge and executioner and rejoice in our knowing that we are the deciders of everyone's fate. Yeah, that is really what we need in this world today!

I am sad for us all today. And every day we rejoice in killing no matter the reason.

[beam me up scottie]

235. You should post more often, loveandlight.

You have a lot to say. :)

[loveandlight]

239. I wish I could post more often...

Mostly I read DU while I am at work during the day, and by evening am ready to get off the computer. This week I have off so I am freer with my time to read and comment.

Thanks for the thought, though, and maybe I will try to get more said.

[beam me up scottie]

249. Oh, good, I was worried this kind of free-for-all was keeping you away :)

I live in a very red area, I don't know what I'd do without DU.

[Orsino]

233. He was already out of power.

His death doesn't change that, nor does it improve conditions for Iraqis or our troops.

If that feels good, I recommend your examining the impulse with suspicion, and being sure that you understand what you're glad about.

[RestoreGore]

266. Weighed Against What THIS COUNTRY Has Now Lost?

I'm not glad that this country's SOUL IS DEAD, and that is really what it is all about. You mean to tell me if he had simply been left in the Hague to rot in a cell for the rest of his miserable life until God judged him you wouldn't be happy? You don't believe justice is served unless you see BLOOD? Perhaps that says more about you as a person than anything else. It also doesn't change the FACT that we still have over 150,000 troops in Iraq that were sent there because our own dicator LIED TO US and in doing so has caused the deaths of thousands of Iraqis himself as well as American troops. Who is then next to be hanged to continue the cycle of violence? Where THE HELL DOES IT ALL END? I am so sick of the war, bloodshed, violence, hate, revenge, torture, warmongering, and glee over it all that appears to now be the American way. It sickens me.

[Jcrowley]

267. No you've got company

But the rest of the world condemns it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3006919

More proof of how sick this country is.

Who should we hang next? I'm sure there are more evil-doers out there killing en masse with our support.

[Hippo_Tron]

282. I'm glad that he's no longer able to harm others, not really shedding a tear that he's dead

But that doesn't mean that I rejoice in it or that I support the death penalty.

You're correct that he's vile scum and that he deserves his fate. If he had been assassinated I would have no problem with that because it would be justified so that he could no longer harm others. But I don't see the point in killing him if we already have him in captivity.