Hillary is in Trouble in Polls ...

[illinoisprogressive]

and interesting article I found on alternet about Hillary not being the annioted one.

You may find interesting.

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2524263,00.html

[Erika]

1. I dont think Hillary will run and never have

She's never put her heart into it.

[liberaldemocrat7]

51. I won't vote for Mrs Triangulation in the primaries.

Although for the most part Bill Clinton did a good job, I disagreed with his signing of the penalizing Whelfare law and with the Shaftas.

Hillary has pandered to America's Nazis with her support for Flag burning legislation. Who can see what other right wing legislation she would support to advance herself to greater power. Her support for the Iraq war also turns me away from her.


I believed that the Republicans invaded Iraq partly in order to destroy the New Deal. The republicans did get the Chimp into the white house in 2004 again so it worked partially, in that they did begin to destroy medicare with that privatization of the drug benefit, which has to get repealed and replaced with a real benefit placed in Medicare Part B.

However enough people woke up and voted the Republicans out of congressional power, so the Iraq invasion that the Republicans did in part to destroy the new deal has backfired on them, and I want to see the Republicans out of power for at least 12 years and even more.

Hillary went along with the 21st century McCarthyism that the Republicans did in order to force opponents of the war to go along or lose their seats in the house and senate. Hillary went along with this war, because she feared losing her senate seat in 2006. However the invasion of Iraq and the occupation went awry and ironicly she retained power because she had no real opposition here in NY.

I won't vote for her in the primary but if she wins the nomination I will reluctantly vote for her in the 2008 general election.

Personally if you want to force moderates and conservatives to do something you need to form a union and have people stop buying products from the companies that give money to these poliicians and the companies that lobby these politicians.

[Stephanie]

2. Good.

She's a guaranteed loser. Nobody wants her to run, except the Republicans.

[originalpckelly]

5. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner...

that's why the media was and is playing her up so much. They WANT us to lose. They WANT her.

[Triana]

11. Exactly...

...that's why the Repukes and their lapdog media keep ramming her down our throats. 'Cause they know she'll lose. I've personally got nothing against her - but I know she can't win.

[natrat]

47. same with obama

[niceypoo]

17. Hillary is the republicans biggest fear

Thats why they are so obsessed with her. Why people let the republicans decide things for them is beyond me. Can you imagine the idiot the republicans would run against her? Remember that anti-Hillary guy they ran against her in her first senate race? Republicans IQs drop by twenty points every time they do anytning having to do with a Clinton. Hillary would wipe her ass with whomever they ran. The electorate is so pissed off with the republicans that the democrats could run a matted sheepdog and beat them.

[Stephanie]

31. A matted sheepdog would do better than Hillary.

She is hated by the left AND the right. She has no principals. She's insincere. She can't speak. We can do much, much better than that.

[niceypoo]

41. she is hated by a small segment of the left

Who spew venom and sound exactly like republicans. Their hatred of her is conditioned into them from listening to cons endlessly whine about her. Its the old adage about lies, hear it enough times and it becomes fact. It is definately hatred, good old fashioned irrational hatred. Todays Hillary haters are tomorrows new republicans.

[acmavm]

44. Oh no, no, no. She wouldn't get more than five votes here in the

midwest (for the nomination). And that might be an exaggeration.

[Tactical Progressive]

45. Irrational is right

The pretexts for their bitterness are so phony and contrived, so inconsistent within the rest of their attitudes, and always changing, jumping from one inanity to the next, not to mention often just plain nasty and derogatory towards women, that your description of 'good old fashioned irrational hatred' is sadly, quite accurate.

Here are two of my favorites:

She's unelectable because the right hates her and will attack her huge!
- Any Dem will be attacked without letup. Your's will be too, so he's out of contention as well.
-- Since when do we let what Republican thugs will do, choose our candidate for us!!

It's Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton and that's a terrible trend that needs breaking! It's just wrong!
- Gee, it's two-hundred plus years of ALL MEN and NO WOMEN. Guess that's not any kind of real, serious trend that needs breaking.
-- silence (ie, non-acceptance of the ludicrous nature of their logic)

And on and on and on.

Hillary will win the nomination, and Hillary will win the general election. And I'll have an extra-big smile on my face knowing that these cheap-shot Hillary haters won't be able to enjoy a momentous turning point in our American political culture as they 'hold their nose' like they did for Kerry. When all along the only stink was them.

[Alamom]

48. Thank you very much.n/t

[Stephanie]

57. It's not personal, and it has nothing to do with republicans.

The question is whether we are going to continue to let corporatist, DLC "Democrats" lead the way. When the world is in flames and we have less than ten years to save the planet, we need a president with COURAGE, someone with a moral compass that's not regulated by corporate donations and poll numbers.

[sendero]

53. Oh I see...

.... 90% of what you see on the news media is what the Republicans WANT you to see, but in this case the media is doing their own thing.

You've got it EXACTLY backwards, any candidate you see played up in the news media is one they think they can beat. Don't hold your breath waiting for them to play up Clark or Dean, because they know that either of them COULD win.

They are playing up Obama right now because they are sure that a black man cannot win. They might be wrong, but that is what they think, I guarantee it.

[LSK]

59. she is an easy target n/t

[Hieronymus]

40. I think you're right ..

cons would love to see Hillary run.

[originalpckelly]

3. "Charisma offensive"?

:rofl:

That's like having George W. Bush unleash an "intelligence offensive."

I remember when she was at Coretta Scott King's funeral, the start contrast between her and Bill, blew me away.

She's got less charisma than a gray drip of paint.

[GeneCosta]

4. She's not liberal enough for me

So no loss.

[originalpckelly]

6. Welcome to DU GeneCosta!

:hi:

Yep, she still won't admit invading Iraq was wrong. STILL!
If she hasn't got it by now, she never will.

[illinoisprogressive]

8. hey, welcome from all of us

I did not notice new person. Great call pckelly.
And welcome from us southpaws at du.

[illinoisprogressive]

7. The funeral was a real eye opener

for anyone hoping she would catch fire on the stump. Or campaign with Bill. She can't. I've heard she has a speaking tutor. But, the part in the article about her revving up charisma. I ask "what charisma?"

[Erika]

9. She's still better than any GOP dork that is considering running

Can you imagine Newt the serial adulterer?
Can your imagine Rudy the serial adulterer?
Or Mitt, the "Woman, I'll call you up to heaven if it pleases me" nut
Or McCain, the "I wasn't right wing before I learned to love Falwell's teletubbies."

[snowbear]

10. 99,561 have signed up @ DU at one time or another... and maybe 6 of them support Hillary in '08..

.. And outta those 6, I'm not so sure about about 3 of em...

Gotta hand our wonderful DU'er "Save Elmer" credit.. They sure put up with a lot from the group here!

[Erika]

12. Hillary is a great lady

But she was a Goldwater republican and far too right wing for me. She could never shake it.

[Stephanie]

14. This isn't personal. She's wrong on the issues, and she's a terrible candidate.

Other than that I like her.

[Erika]

20. She's still better than any GOP out there

by 1000%. Agreed?

[Stephanie]

32. She's DLC. What's the difference between her and a moderate Republican?

She supports the war, supports the death penalty, waffles on choice. She's the second highest recipient of lobbyist money after Rick Santorum - I guess that makes her first, now. I think if she were running against Olympia Snowe I'd have to think hard about it.

[nolabels]

42. " She supports the war"

Let your moral compass bring you home so others may be able to come home too. Anybody that supports others getting killed for only pride and no other good reason will never get my vote. She was wrong then and is wrong now. That pride thing and never willing admit mistakes be one of the major things that brings her down. Stubbornness and a sense of entitlement are also not good tools for winning support from others. Well at least as far as I have ever seen anyway :shrug:

[KingFlorez]

55. There is a big difference

You need to look at her voting record, because she votes more progressive than moderate Republicans.

[Stephanie]

60. Believe me, I have looked very closely at her record.

She's a hawkish centrist on the issues that matter and there is no chance that I will support her.

[earthlover]

33. my dog Max

is better than any GOP out there, more intelligent too. Unfortunately, like Hillary, Max cannot win the election.

[snowbear]

36. I'd vote for Max...

If it was between the kitty and Hillary for '08..

oops.. you said DOG... I must be getting tired..

I'd vote for your dog!!!!

[Nite Owl]

39. Welcome earthlover!

I have a dog named Max too. I've advised him not to run, they would have a field day digging up dirt on him. Lots of bribes accepted I'm afraid, give him a cookie and he will do anything. Still better than any repuke by a mile but not electable.

[jayctravis]

22. I think, as I do with Kerry, she can do more good in the Senate.

[Stephanie]

13. Hillary hired paid bloggers in the NY Senate race

She hired Peter Daou to "blog" for her. He promptly shut his blog down. Whatever he was doing, he did it anonymously. There's no grassroots for Hillary. She has to hire people to support her.

[Hoosier Dem]

15. Hillary is unelectable, pure and simple

She's too far to the right for traditional Dems, most independents don't like her, and Republicans hate her.

Aside from joe Lieberman (AH-CT), who else is there for her to get support from?

For those who are thinking about supporting her, there is one thing to remember: Hillary IS NOT Bill!

[illinoisprogressive]

16. I know only one person who is supporting her

and that is my sister. made for a wonderful conversation since she is basically supporting her because she is a woman and I do not like her and support Obama.
Sandra is usually very progressive but, she is such a Hillary fan and telling her about Hillary's real positions did not matter.
I don't know anyone else who supports or likes her.

[Erika]

18. I'd still vote for her over any GOP dork

She's a classy lady who was cast a hard lot.

[mnhtnbb]

19. I have disliked Hillary ever since her contemptuous 'cookie' remark

And that's her problem. Her smug, self-satisfaction exudes from every pore.

[Erika]

21. You got to be kidding? right? n/t

[mnhtnbb]

54. No. I gave up a career in hospital administration to raise my family.

I did not stay home to bake cookies and give teas. Maybe that's what her Republican mother did, but I was politically active in my community, seized the chance to act in community theatre and write plays, spent time with my children at the library, the park, the zoo, museums, that I never would have been able to do if I'd been working 70 hours/week as a COO in hospital management.

No, she denigrated the value of mothers who are actively engaged in mothering with that snide comment, when she had the opportunity to draw attention to the enormous resources that are required in raising kids.
Fuck her.

[jefferson_dem]

23. "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas."

That single comment drove away at least three female members of my family, all died-in-the-wool Democrats, who now say they will never ever vote for her.

[Erika]

28. I admired her for that

She said all women were not meant for the same future.

[Mark E. Smith]

24. Put your $ on John Edwards

Because that is the name of our next President.

[illinoisprogressive]

27. I must disagree with you, Marksmith

no way, no how. We are going to be watching in two years the swearing in of our first black prez.
Obama '08

[Mark E. Smith]

29. I'm cool with that.

Either way, we win.

[mnhtnbb]

56. I agree.

[Strelnikov_]

25. If Hil Gets The Nom, I Will Vote For Her With The Stoic Resignation

of a Tommy going over the top at the Somme. And with about the same results.

[mnhtnbb]

58. And we will be moving permanently to Panama so that we don't have to witness

the US going down the toilet.

[Old and In the Way]

26. If she decides to run and win the primaries, I'll be happy to support her.

Hell, I'd enjoy seeing her win, just to see the RW media and the shallow end of the gene pool freak out.

[liberaltrucker]

30. Hillary is yesterday's news

She's a helluva Senator, but not Presidential material. Let's face it, Bill
wasn't exactly a liberal's dream Prez, and she'd be no better. The Clinton
era is OVER. Time for Democrats to move on. *dons flame-proof suit*

[Stephanie]

34. you said it

that's the truth. Obama is news because Obama is new. And he's talented, charming, bright and fresh. Hillary is stale and sour.

[left is right]

46. I was majorly impressed by Obama at the 04

convention, so much so that I told my nonpolitical black friends to keep an eye on him that he was going to be our first black president. But since that time I have changed my mind somewhat, I don't see from him the courage and for lack of a better term--the stand-upness--that I expected to see. it seems that he too often does the expedient thing rather than the right thing. Having said all that, he is bright, charming, talented, and fresh and those characteristic have sorely been lacking for 8 years in the whitehouse and mostly in Congress. But I think our next president will need a double helping of courage

[G Hawes]

35. Not presidential material,

I agree.

[illinoisprogressive]

38. I really agree with you, Stephanie

We don't need a monarchy and 30 years of bush/clinton. And thier time has come and gone. It's over. They are yesterday.
Obama is today.

[HughMoran]

37. I think so

Just being able to possibly win in the general election isn't good enough any more.

[dorktv]

43. Normally someone has to actually start running for the bashing but not

here. :eyes:

[Alamom]

49. You are so right......

" Hillary is the republicans biggest fear "......... looks like a lot of Dems are AFRAID she will run... why ? If she's so bad and unpopular, she doesn't have a chance, does she?
Why waste time and effort with more bashing threads a day than people on this group who support her.... I believe 6 or 3 was the # mentioned.......

Or, could it be, she IS the "annioted one." ;-)



Could it be that we "WILL" get "Bill", too ?

Many questions ...few answers.....much bashing & eating our own & so soon. x(









edgr

[dorktv]

61. I really have no issue with Hillary Clinton running. I may have serious

disagreements with her policy choices (the Iraq war vote?! What was she thinking?!) But I know she will do a much better job and if she does the really sensible thing Bill will be on a plane Jan. 21 to Israel to deal with that problem. That problem gets fixed and we can focus on some other major issues.

[B Calm]

50. At this time in the 2004 election cycle, Joe Lieberman was leading.

I wish you people would concentrate on current events and stop worrying about who will win the next presidential election 2 years from now.

[mnhtnbb]

52. Hillary CANNOT win a charisma contest against either Obama or Edwards

If she's smart, she'll decide to stay in the Senate.