Poverty and obesity

[undergroundpanther]

CHICAGO — More than a third of disadvantaged 3-year-olds in Chicago and other major U.S. cities are overweight or obese, according to a new study that supports the notion that the struggle with obesity often begins in early childhood.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/he

Yep how long until poor people are hated fat people and big brother starts telling the poor how to live or they will cut the programs subsidizing the poor. Why are the poor fat? Because cheap food is fattening. Duh'oh. I swear people who have never been poor just don't FATHOM how hard it is to be poor. Poverty incidentally also fucks up your health and mental health because poverty is a form of abuse ,financial abuse.And it is stressful to live in poverty

http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct04/poverty.html
http://www.care.org/features/rhealth/facts.asp?source=ghp

Poverty is the number one killer in the world today, outranking smoking as the leading cause of death.1
http://www.studentbmj.com/back_issues/0601/education/180.html

And because we as a nation forgot how to be a community because we are so damn self absorbed and greedy,and BELIEVE in the god money, let the rich have everything for nothing,while we believe that everything must have a price tag on it, or cost , while we go on playing the market of lies ,a segment of our population the poor suffers in more ways than science will be funded by corporations to find out.

[Ron Green]

1. Ironic. The poor used to be skinny and the rich ("prosperous") were not.

Now the rich are able to eat healthy and go to the spa, and the poor are trapped in the slavery of corporate food.

[undergroundpanther]

3. That was way back

When food was nourishing.
Rich people got fat because they could afford it.
Skinny poor people were skinny because they were denied food .Couldn't afford it. There were more uprisings long ago and more violence. Then the rich learned hunger makes a population of poor people violent and riotous to kill the 'elites" so corporations give us cheap empty addictive calories to stave the hunger to tame the population that suffers the most to disguise the suffering.

Now rich people can afford health, and a spa and to eat well.
and poor people eat crap food to survive and it wrecks havoc on their bodies.Weak fat bodies are less of a threat to the wealthy exploiting the people.The poor filling up on cheap addictive food keeps the hunger away so the poor are more docile. add in fat bashing and wealth ape's and poor people feel hopeless blame themselves since this self responsibility crap is so popular among the more comfortable people,and live lives of quiet desperation do their jobs and eat to survive, on crappy chemical laden addictive food which renders the poor, depressed, tired, unhealthy weak and obese and no physical threat to the rich.When the poor atre taught to self blame it quickly turns to self hate and dispair, which again makes them easy to subdue by the rich.

[BuelahWitch]

8. The rich can also snort more coke

Coke slims you down quick

[madeline_con]

2. The link between poverty and obestiy can be explained by

at least 2 scenarios.

Cheap, fatty foods (nutritionally cheap) cost less. Bologna, and lower quality cuts of meat, and foods pumped full of salt are cheaper to buy.

I also read a report that said parents who feel their neighborhood isn't safe tend to have heavier kids than the norm, because they make them stay home more.

[Kiouni]

4. I'm sick of fast food joints

poisoning america with their secret "additives" and grade "e" meat. the problem is we (the morally responsible)can not compete against their billion dollar marketing campaigns. If i was a religious man i would smite them, but since I'm not all I can do is fling excrement at their stores!

[undergroundpanther]

5. There will either be

Alot of people are being mentally altered from the bad food. So as it becomes more addictive and people sink more into sickness the food causes they will just obey until death.Or there will be a backlash of well deserved hatred twords corporations and the wealthy and the poor will stop being treated like dirt and that can only happen IF we reach out to others living around us build trust and rebuild a community and help each other, know each other and care. If we fail to rely on each other and local made stuff and keep letting big corporations do the functions of a community we will be toast along with our planet..We have let the rich have so much for nothing for too long. They are NOT part of a community because they take too much.

[Quantess]

47. "...mentally altered from the bad food...." Yes!

The crappy diet makes the body sluggish, and makes a person feel dependent on quick-fixes of high calorie starch-and-grease.

[seabeyond]

6. fuckin outlaw poverty. make cities no poverty zones.

hey i say this tongue in cheek because it pisses me off so. but.... i was reading an article in lbn about people want the govt to interfere with obesity in this country which is just absurd. i have been so pissed about the anti smoking crusades that i said it is a slippery slope and when they go after the fat, i will be cheering it on. not my battle. was talking to the boys about this tonight and said, i couldn't do it. had to stand up for the obese even though they may not be willing to stand up for me.

this is all just tooooo far and toooo many people in this country is applauding it.

[zanne]

10. I agree with you 100%

There must be some Libertarian blood in me because I get so pissed about the government regulating our personal habits. I'm a former smoker who hates to see people standing out in the -10 temperatures on their smoking break, or not being able to smoke in their own hotel rooms or apartments! What's next--stopping people who smoke in cars? I also think it's despotic that trans fats have been abolished in NYC. WTF? Don't get me wrong; I'm glad that so many people have quit smoking and are eating better. But it should be a choice, not an order.

[fed-up]

7. Parents choose what to feed their kids-rice beans fruit and veggies are

cheap. There is no reason for poor people to buy the processed crap.

Look at other countries that have poverty. Not too many fat kids there.

I am a single mom and pretty much avoided wasting precious food budget dollars on packaged non-nutritious overpriced foods.

The parents have to start taking responsibility for what they feed their kids despite all the advertising for "fast/convenient" foods.

[BuelahWitch]

9. Fresh fruits and veggies are NOT cheap in the US

Rice and beans maybe but they're still high in carbs and store more fat. Last summer the price for fresh fruit hardly went down at all.
A friend of mine who lived in China for 6 months last year told me that he could get a bag of fruits and vegetables there and it cost him about 2 bucks. Here it would be ten times that. Most people don't want to spend their entire weekly food budget on items that will spoil within a few days.

[DemReadingDU]

26. Fruits and veggies are not cheap

but keeping them in refrigerator, they last at least a week or 2, depending on what it is.

And a serving is 1 piece, or handful. Not the entire bag.

We always have fresh fruit and veggies to munch on. We eat lots of peanut butter sandwiches. We don't buy chips/cookies/candy (empty calories, and who can eat just 1).

Eating healthy, does not necessarily wreck the food budget.

[seabeyond]

11. i have one child 11 weighs less than his 9 yr old brother.

they are fed the same foods. they are individuals boys. can come along and suggest my youngest is obese though that would be wrong. he is pudgy and thick, so thick. even wearing slim jeans at younger age he was thick and heavy to hold. oldest i can still pick him up. genetics. since we have no fat on either side of the family i am confident my youngest will sprout up and be fit and thick and strong and tall.... how my family does it.

who are you.... to look at my youngest and decide you are going to create some eating disorder for him, guilting him with food, causing lifetime damage with little and no information. you cannot. govt cannot. this is wrong

[etherealtruth]

14. Have you ever been in an inner city grocery store?

I have, but mercifully I've never had to shop in one. There is "nothing" of quality there ... and what is there is ridiculously expensive.

Be glad that you have the education and/or intelligence to understand nutrition; there are those that don't have that advantage.

I am a single mother as well ... I am thankful, everyday, that I was able to take advantage of opportunities that were presented me. I don't feel superior to those that haven't had opportunities presented them (be it educational or genetic)

[AlienAvatar]

17. Ignorance and depression are always

involved in poverty. These two factors account for a lot of bad choices. Some don't know how to handle money and shop wisely, and some feel they have little reason to care.

[pitohui]

20. depression is an illness requiring medication

the poor person who can't afford to get their depression treated will probably be fat, true

however, the poor person who can afford to get depression treated will also likely be fat, since SSRIs have a side effect of causing intractable weight gain

a friend has gained 100 pounds on prozac, you cannot reasonably tell him to knock it off and stop taking the prozac, prior to medication, he was unable to hold a job for more than a few days, his entire life was going by without his being able to get out of bed

some people are going to be fat, if they do everything right, like take their medicine, we have to stop being so judgmental about it

[Rosemary2205]

33. WTF??

I don't even know where to begin to tell you how many different ways you are full of shit..........


Always???

Really????


Always??????

[AlienAvatar]

37. Well, Rosemary, I apologize for my

gratuitous hyperbole. I should have said "almost always". Like in 95%. Let me know if that's too much. I can adjust it to the correct percentage.

I also apologize for putting you in such a confused state that you "don't even know where to begin to tell you how many different ways you are so full of shit....." That was a totally unforeseen consequence of my post and I am sorry. I didn't mean to do that do you.

Are you really so stunned, apparently beyond belief, that I would so strongly link ignorance and depression with poverty? And do you often respond in such a vigorously hateful way or was there something special about my words that just made you want to tear my head off.

[Rosemary2205]

39. Hate?

I have no emotion toward you whatsoever. I just think you are full of shit on this. If disagreeing with you in the strongest terms on this one subject is equal to vengeful hate to you then so be it. I can't control your emotions.

[AlienAvatar]

44. Well, I'm grateful that you have no control of my emotions.

Anyway, what was it that disturbed you so. Was it that I said "always"? Is that it? If I say "almost always", is that ok? Or not?

You said I was "full of shit".
Full?
Completely!?
To the very top?

Seriously, I'm not finished learning lessons. Maybe I'm wrong in something I said and, if that's the case, I'd be grateful to be corrected so I don't continue to make an ass of myself by saying something stupid. I'm being serious here and not sarcastic at all.

I'm also being serious when I say that you were out of line by telling me I'm "full of shit". Disagreements are fine with me. You don't have to talk like that to get your point across.

[Rosemary2205]

45. Do you approve of this language instead?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3014352&mesg_id=3014408

You crack me up.

[AlienAvatar]

48. Yes, I approve.

I have no problem with it whatsoever. Who has been insulted? I doubt she'll be bothered and don't think anyone else in the thread feels insulted either.

I'll also say things like Bush is a fucking hateful asshole. Although, if I were in an argument with him I would hope that I could think of persuasive, rather than abusive, language to make my point.

I am really kind of amazed at your reaction to my post. Please, tell me what I said that inflamed you so. I'm serious. I never thought what I said would offend ANYBODY. I don't get it. Is it really the "always" generalization? Am I really "full" of shit? Completely, totally, to the very top? Let's try to not be ridiculous in our nit picking. This is getting boring and you won't answer my question. What was so infuriating to you? WHAT? Leave out the ad hominem attacks and just tell me what I said that upset you so. If it's the "always" I'll go back and edit. I try not to generalize but I guess I did. There are always exceptions.

There I said it again. "always exceptions". I mean there are almost always exceptions. Isn't this tedious? And stupid? I think so. How 'bout you.

[Rosemary2205]

50. Do yourself a favor

untwist your shorts and do some homework on why people are poor in this country. It's just a LIIIIIITTTLE more complicated than you seem to think.

:eyes:

[bobbolink]

56. On this we agree wholeheartedly, Rosemary 2205!

Thanks for standing up to all this ignorance.

We poor folk need advocates like you! :applause:

(Willing to be that because I identified myself as poor, that I get a demand from this..(#_#($*#!#%$&^!! to know just how I can afford a computer if I'm so poor?) :)

[Rosemary2205]

59. Well I don't know but

I have heard that garbage before. "you aren't poor - truly poor can't afford a computer". As if there is no such thing as a donated one from someone who bought the newest. - as if there are no public libraries - or college computer centers that a poor person might access in the process of improving their cirucumstances. As if $9 a month for internet access isn't a perfect example of a good investment into gaining knowledge and improving one's opportunities.

The best one I heard is that someone on DU who said they were poor has no right to take a few minutes out of their day to post here when they should be WORKING. As if working class people are just expected to work 24/7 with no down time ever.

It can get pretty bizarre sometimes. I'll grant you that!

[AlienAvatar]

67. Well, I can tell you this.

I agree completely with what you said. Being poor, being afraid to look at the mail or answer the phone is an absolutely hellish nightmare. And on top of that, like you say, many tend to think it's all your fault. Like your doing it on fucking purpose for christ's sake. You're deserving of it, and they are not. It's a constant assault on your dignity.
It's amazing just how shallow and mean so many people are. Being down and out seems to give you a heightened awareness of this.

[bobbolink]

69. Glad you understand! "No right to take time to post..."

Yes, there are many RWers here. Although, that example you posted may take the cake. :(

They have the RW talking points down perfectly.

That's why I'm very grateful there are a few of you who advocate for us poor folk... otherwise, we're just beat down that much further.

Really, saying shit to poor folk really ought to be against the rules. It's so damaging, and it's certainly not democratic.

Thanks! :thumbsup:

[AlienAvatar]

61. Please, I never DREAMED my post would offend.

Please tell me what I said wrong and I'll take it back or correct it. I'm coming from the same place. I was trying to be sympathetic but obviously my words didn't convey sympathy or understanding. This whole thing has been very weird for me today.

PLEASE. Tell me what I said wrong and I'll take it back or correct it. I'm being absolutely serious here. It's obvious to me that I've caused offense, but, honestly, I just don't' know how I did it.
Tell me about it because I don't want to make the same mistake again.

[bobbolink]

71. Then you need to start considering us actual human beings.

Then you'd "get it"

Poor folk don't like to be insulted any more than you do.

[AlienAvatar]

58. I was actually feeling bad about our little

argument here and how it has seemed to make us enemies. I'll bet if we had the opportunity to sit down and talk we would probably be in complete (almost) agreement on the causes and ramifications of being poor. I know about it firsthand and I know you do too. We have that in common, plus we're both liberals and DU'ers. We probably have much more in common than not.

I phrased something in a misleading way that offended you, I took offense that you were offended, you...., then I...., and here we are. We shouldn't be fighting like this. Both of us know the subject too well. I bet if we had the chance, we'd find we basically agree and would be allies.

I was speaking in general terms by lumping poverty, ignorance, and depression together. I should have been more specific. Each of those words encompass whole loads of other things, and each will probably mean something slightly different to any individual.

It just seems so easy to make enemies here and that's really unfortunate. You and I are close to having an intense dislike of each other. I don't want that, and I don't think you want it either. Having enemies, no matter how trivial, is just a pain in the ass. It's uncomfortable, it's awkward, and it's energy draining. Honest to god, I'm not trying to be "Mr. Oh, so reasonable" here, but I really do believe if we had to sit on a bus together for an hour we wouldn't dislike each other at all.

By the way, I love to argue a point as long as the argument doesn't turn ugly and I also welcome constructive criticism, and especially correction, when I'm wrong. If I'm wrong I don't want to continue saying the wrong thing and making myself look stupid. I don't like to look stupid, but if my zipper is down, PLEASE, tell me about it.

[Rosemary2205]

63. My last post on the subject

I was never offended. You aren't my enemy. I am not yours. I don't like you nor dislike you.

[bobbolink]

72. While I appreciate your attempt at peacemaking, you still insist

on "knowing" something which is completely false, and does NOTHING to help poor folk.

It *IS* offensive to me, and a person in poverty, and there is no way I'm going to concede that to you, even though you clearly want to reach out.

If you were walking in my shoes, and had been hurt so deeply by that crap, you would "get it". Just asserting that you "know" about poverty doesn't mean that you do.

As a priest once said, "My definition of pornography is the whole concept of "Us and Them".

You have made me a "them", and peace will never come from that.

Consider that.

[bobbolink]

54. Yes, it *is* stunning.

Obviously you have not known a lot of people in poverty.

Welcome to the RW talking points. You post a good example thereof.

[Quantess]

49. I think you bring up valid points. I don't think you're "full of shit" at all.

Your choice of words may be too harsh for some people. And, "always" is too strong. But I would agree that ignorance and depression are often involved in poverty. To think otherwise is not realistic.

Edit: That's not quite what I meant. This is better: Ignorance is often involved in poor eating habits, overweight, and malnutrition. Depression is often caused by poor eating habits, and caused by poverty.

[uppityperson]

51. Excuse me, ignorance and depression are (95%) involved in poverty?

Losing my job was because I was ignorant or depressed, not because the company folded because there were too many others who could do it for cheaper? Not being able to get a decent paying job was because I made a lot of bad choices, not because there are so many others in the same position, looking for some type work that will pay enough for rent and food? I had to get food stamps because I didn't know how to handle money or shop wisely or perhaps care enough to be able to survive without worrying myself sick about how to pay the heat so my child would not have to live in a tiny cabin with water running down the inside walls because there was no insulation and it was 30 degrees out? I do not think I am the ignorant one.

[AlienAvatar]

68. Fuck, I hate fucking poor people!

Ok! They are ALL stupid, thus ignorant. They're not depressed, they're just fucking lazy. They're self-pitying scum. Is this what my words make you think?

God Damn it!! I know I'm right because I know what I speak of. I am one. Ok!! I got a fucking degree in poor. Your post has caused me to lose it here just when I thought it was getting straightened out. I don't need any lessons in poverty. I know way more about it than I ever, ever, wanted to know. I don't want to get deleted so I'll refrain from telling you two words I'd like to say to you.

On Edit: this is responding to you but it is also intended for this bobolink guy. I've reached the limit of what I can put up with on this thread. fuck it!

[uppityperson]

70. oh knock it off. Here are your exact words:

"Ignorance and depression are always involved in poverty". I am taking your words at face value. Did you read what I wrote? You are not the only one who has lived in poverty here. You have little idea of who I am and what I have gone through either and I was responding to your words with stuff from my history. Go ahead and say the 2 words if it makes you feel better to insult me by sharing my personal life in response to your words which I found insulting.

Poor can be from ignorance, or from depression, but it can also be from circumstances out of an intelligent, informed, non-depressed person's control. I get really tired of the myth of "you can make it if only you try" and saying that being poor is because you are ignorant or mentally able to deal with NOT being poor. It just isn't that simple.

Best of luck to you.

[AlienAvatar]

75. I tried to be as reasonable as I could, did you

read where I practically pleaded to be shown what was so offensive. I am not infallible. I make mistakes in semantics. Hopefully I can learn by being corrected.

I can't, I don't have the words, to tell you just how much I regret using the word "always". I am so fucking sorry. I should have said "ALMOST always", or even better, "frequently". I think I tried to explain this 2 or 3 times prior to this. The spirit of my post was one of sympathy and empathy. I am fucking poor. Get it? I'm not ignorant, even though I said "always", I'm not even depressed anymore because now I'm just pissed off. I apologize, I try to reason, I explain, I plead. All wasted energy. I fucking give up. I'm in the fucking Twilight Zone here.

I actually try to apologize and explain myself and it means NOTHING! Honest to Christ! I don't know what else to say. Whatever. I just do not care.

[uppityperson]

77. So is this another "apology"?

"I am so fucking sorry", you try so hard, you are so misunderstood? This is no apology, and no, I had read no apology when I posted my protest at your wording. You say you "practically pleaded to be shown what was so offensive" yet when I told you (post# 51) you respond by sarcastic swearing and saying you are not going to say the bad words that will get deleted?

Here is an apology: I am sorry to been offensive, to say that all poor people are poor because "Ignorance and depression are always involved in poverty. These two factors account for a lot of bad choices. Some don't know how to handle money and shop wisely, and some feel they have little reason to care." You are told what is offensive then cuss at me. I respond politely with a good wish to you and you reply by cussing again. I have nothing more to say to you.

[Quantess]

79. Maybe you should just stop apologizing?

You're getting your neck ripped off anyway, so how about standing proudly by your statement?:hide: Please, make the screeching stop.

By the way, even when I've been in poverty, which has been most of my adult life, I've always placed good nutrition and physical health high on my list. I bet I'm healthier than most of the Bush family.

[bobbolink]

74. Glad you've "reached your limit"

Have a nice evening, then.

BYE.....

[uppityperson]

78. Hi bobbi, me too

[pitohui]

19. fruit and veggies are not cheap, get your head out of the 70s

why do people continue to repeat this big lie over and over?

oh yeah, because it conveniently allows us to continue to blame those tacky poor people for being poor and makes it good and righteous for us to continue to discriminate against them

anyone who thinks fruits and veg are cheap doesn't do the grocery shopping

[uppityperson]

52. I know, it is getting really difficult

an apple costs a dollar, so does a meal of broccoli. Frozen veggies might be cheaper, but if you haven't a freezer that actually freezes, it is difficult to stock up when they are on sale.

[devilgrrl]

22. Shouldn't the time to prepare meals be taken into account?

Just asking.

[krabigirl]

29. Fruits and veggies are not cheap!

My brother lives on very low wages, but tries very hard to keep eating healthy and in shape. I went to the store with him and noticed that he spent $6.47 on one small melon. Perhaps it was out of season, but still...WTF?

I feel for people who have to feed an entire family with prices like this.

Sure, there are farmer's markets, but the ones in my area are held on Tuesdays from 9-1 (hmmm, right during the work day) and aren't well-publicized.

[bobbolink]

57. Welcome to DU, krabigirl!

:toast:

Farmers markets aren't often "cheaper". Probably better food, and certainly a more fair trade, but.. usually no longer "cheaper"

[krabigirl]

66. Thanks for the nice welcome. :)

You are right about the farmer's markets. While they do provide better-quality foods, they aren't really cheaper.

[nashville_brook]

32. cooking is a luxury for a one-parent family

yeah, raw/whole foods are better for you and cheaper but they require the one thing that poor people DON'T have, which is TIME.

[Quantess]

46. You are absolutely correct. There is a disconnect somewhere.

It can be inexpensive to eat a fairly healthy diet, with legumes, grains, and basic vegetables (potatoes, onions, carrots, celery), and some lean meat. But people say they have no time to prepare healthy meals from scratch, because they are always working. That, and when they get home from work they're too tired to cook a nice meal.

And some people can't afford even those healthy inexpensive ingredients. For whatever reason, all they have is a lot of stale hot dog buns and pancake syrup. And an occasional slice of bologna or a corn dog. Those people will be overweight and terribly malnourished.

But I suspect there are a lot of people who simply don't know how to eat healthy. They see Hot Pockets commercials on TV, and their kids see Lucky Charms comercials, and they can't think outside of those images. The Friday night splurge is likely a disgusting, deep fried, bucket of chicken from KFC, or a greasy, anti-choice, Domino's pizza. Because these people aren't attuned to healthy eating. Their habits are deeply ingrained.

[TahitiNut]

60. I wonder how many DUers are at all aware of what's sold in poor neighborhoods.

These are not people who can easily leave the kids in day-care or at a neighbor's and drive down to the local fresh produce market. I think, in order to better understand, folks would actually have to (almost literally) walk for some time in the shoes of the inner city poor. When the working poor have to be on-the-job for over 9 hours and spend 2 hours a day traveling between home and job it's not easy to put time into preparing a nutritious breakfast or dinner. Lunch? Fugeddaboutdit.

Grocery prices in poor neighborhoods are higher than in affluent neighborhoods. When the produce doesn't 'move' it gets stinky. Grocers don't carry what doesn't 'move.' It's not att all easy for some minority of people in a poor neighborhood to adopt a diet that's different from their neighbors. Thus, people get trapped into the 'average' diet - the 'market' in their locale.

[EstimatedProphet]

12. Absolutely

The working poor in particular are screwed too - they have to work multiple jobs, which leaves them often no time at all for anything other than fast food.

[Doctor_J]

13. Limpballs claims he got huge when he was poor

Because the convenince store, which sold only junk food, took credit card, while the grocery store did not (remembering from Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot And Other Observation).

There is probably something to this. The fast food seems to be marketed toward inner-city folk.

[madokie]

15. makes me think of this

I, we leave food out all the time for our pets no matter what and food is no big deal to them. friends feed their animals on a schedule and their pets are ready to eat anytime they get a chance, always seem to be hungry. The same thing here the rich have the money to let there be food at all hours of the day so to their family's it, food, is no big deal. The poor on the other hand are always in memory of being hungry so they at every chance they get, they eat. I'm not comparing pets to people, I'm poor myself, I'm saying when it's such a big deal to someone its different to them, so they eat. I'm on the oposite end of the spectram, never learned the value of a healthy diet so I was alway a slim person, 6'1" 150 lbs, well maybe its been a while since I've seen those numbers but you know what I mean

[seabeyond]

16. there is absolutely a legitimate point here. so right on. this is the pathetic

of the people judging here, that truly makes me sick and i am seeing it on all stretches of our world. yes. the beyond decade i was poor, lucky to have the money for food i ate.... alot, like i might not have tomorrow. i always feared being without. and it caused a whole psychological thing with food that i absolutely do not experience and havent experienced for beyond a decade since i have been provided for in comfort. food is not the issue for me today it was yesterday.

also whle poor and working 10/12 hour days i didnt cook a lot. i picked up fast food on the way home. married, family, stay at home we hardly ever use fast food. once every two weeks maybe.

[pitohui]

21. actually in america our pets are obese EOM

,

[pitohui]

18. yes, thinness has become a class marker

it is already noticeable in the deep south, as a blonde (however dyed) of a certain age, because i am thin, it is easy for me to fit in and blend in with those in my area who are far more well-to-do than myself

i don't believe a fatter person would have the same access, not for a minute, or to get the same access, they would have to spend far more money on fancy car, fancy house, designers duds as obvious markers of wealth

whereas a thin middle-aged blonde can pass as well to do in a torn pair of jeans

[Rosemary2205]

23. Being one of the fattening poor myself

This week I had a choice between 25 cents a pound for dry beans 10 cents a pound for pasta or $1.79 a pound for apples, $1.19 a pound for frozen green beans on sale. Even the onions and carrots were over $1 a pound. I didn't go anywhere near the meat or dairy. I did splurge and buy 3 cans of tuna.

Since the accident and difficult finances we have both gained some weight. I am very careful about my calories and I do 2 hrs of rehab 4 times a week that gets me pretty sweaty. My husband has a physically demanding job and he is a big muscley man. He eats.

IMHO the poor are fatter now because

1. Even McD's cheeseburgers are cheaper$$ than what I make at home.

2. Even cream of mushroom soup and peanut butter has high fructose corn syrup now.

3. Too many playgrounds are not maintained and neighborhoods are not safe for kids to just run around and play at will.

4. Phys ed? Recess? Sidewalks?

5. Working 2 or more jobs, 6 or 7 days a week, often at restaurants that will feed you bad food for free. When do you have time or energy to go take a walk?

I could go on.

[nashville_brook]

34. EVERYONE needs to read your post and get a reality check... !!

portion sizes, caloric intake, cooking whole/nutritious meals -- these are things that people with the luxury of time and money can worry about.

[Myrmidon]

24. "Freedom of speech won't feed my children"

"Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing." -Manic Street Preachers

[DemReadingDU]

25. sometimes it is the size of the serving

that makes a difference whether a person gains pounds...

a serving is 8 oz of cola, not the Big Gulp!

a serving is 1 oz of cheese, not the entire 8 oz package (my spouse is guilty of this one!)

a serving is a single hamburger at McDonalds, not the quarter pounder

If you have not already watched the documentary, Supersize Me, it will be shown on MSNBC tonight at 8pm.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390521/


summary
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390521/plotsummary

[seabeyond]

28. that is just the symptom, but not the cause. i bet the majority

of overwieght goes way beyond the sizing. i believe it is used mostly for a comforting factor, as much as some may use booze, other drugs, other cigs and even some with exercise. they are not addressing their emotional self and are using whatever to cover it up. get beyond that and i believe food will be put in place where it belongs, just a substance that keeps us alive,..... not a crutch or a love that takes away loneliness or whatever. it is a much greater issue than just the size of food given to us. most all of us know the amount we eat results in our calorie intake, ergo weight we gain or not.

[DemReadingDU]

35. we have been accustomed to large portions

40 years ago, a single hamburger was normal size, not the Whopper

a small plate of spaghetti was normal portion, not a platter

a candy bar was 1 oz now most are 3 oz

a small soft drink is now the 'kiddie' size

a good steak was 6 oz, now it is 16 oz

a bagel was 2 oz, now most are 6 oz (plus we have to add cream cheese!)

Many people do use food for emotional reasons. But the fact that portions are larger, they are reaching obesity sooner. Look at the chubby kids in grade school who think a Big Mac and a Big Gulp are normal portions. More and more children are being diagnosed with diabetes and high blood pressure.

Sometime watch the documentary Supersize Me...it is quite an education into America's weight problems.

[Justpat]

27. When I was ten years old,

my father went bankrupt. We ate spaghetti for two years.
The only food we could afford was spaghetti, noodles
and rice. That is what we lived on all that time.
An occasional egg or can of tuna was a luxury.

People who are abjectly poor are usually fat because they
cannot afford a high quailty protein. You eat as much
fruit and vegatables as you can, but when you are hungry
all the time, the only thing that fills you up is starch.


Also, some poor people have appalling dietary habits
because they are not informed about the dangers of high
sugar sodas and fast food.

just my two cents.

[uppityperson]

53. dayold bread from the used bread store smushes up into balls

You can squish it into cubes too, for a variation. Been peer too. And yes, dietary education and habits need to be changed, part of the whole USA consume/advertising bs.

[Justpat]

55. During the really bad years,

we used to make sandwiches with old bread, butter and sugar and cinnamon on it.
Talk about a diabetic's nightmare. But when you are hungry you don't think of
your pancreas.

My whole family is diabetic. I believe it because of these years when we ate nothing
but starch.

People who grew up in the fifties and sixties were not as conscious about the dangers of
sugan and white bread, white potatoes etc. The basic diet of Americans in those times
was truly scary considering what we know now about diet.

I have been able to control diabetes after reading the book: Sugarbusters!
It worked for me.

[Rosemary2205]

65. LOL - now that sure brings back memories.

when we got sick of oatmeal we'd cut up the stale bread and the heels (which no one seemed to like), squish it, and poor a little milk over it (no sweetner).

I haven't thought about that in a LONG time.

[BuelahWitch]

30. Don't forget, the rich can afford things like liposuction

Plastic surgery, etc.

[aikoaiko]

31. Yeah, but don't patronize the poor -- no one is forced to consume more calories than they burn.

Sure, everyone is different (biololgically, economincally, and environmentally) and those differences make it harder or easier to maintain healthy weight, but choices are choices.

[pitohui]

36. the calorie model is dead, my friend, welcome to the 21st century

i'm eternally amazed that anyone still believes this simplistic theory, but i guess we believe what we were taught the science of our day in grade school and some people never look into the matter again

science has advanced a great deal since the 1960s -- we now know that weight gain is a complex issue, for instance, lots of things besides too many calories can make you fat

example -- even though a steroid injection contains no calories, it will cause you to gain weight if you have an illness requiring treatment w. steroids

i've told the story before of my friend, an athlete, who had to take steroids as part of his treatment for cancer, he gained weight and the weight was resistant to being lost no matter what he ate (i'm sure you know this but for the record, people undergoing radiation and chemotherapy don't overeat, they actually have nausea and have problems holding down what they eat)

another example -- a recent report just came out about the mice with different bacteria in their guts, those w. a certain species derived TWICE the number of calories from the same foods as the mice with a different species of bacteria in our guts, hence they were obese and the other mice thin, well, the kind and amount of bacteria you have in your guts is determined in a few days after birth pretty much by chance, so two people can eat the same meals and one gets thin and the other fat, we all know a thin person who eats far more than the fat person in the crowd

[Rosemary2205]

38. I am living proof

After my accident I was on prednisone for 2 years straight and am still on and off it at times when swelling in my neck starts creating too many problems.

Before the accident we had a regular diet with pretty much all the fruits and lean meats we wanted. Neither of us was at all overweight. My husband was into body building and I actually tended to be a little underweight no matter what I ate.

Post accident our diet has changed because of finances. My husband has gained 15# over the last 5 years and he is approaching technically being overweight. I have gained 35# over the last 5 years and actually eat less total calories than I did prior to the accident. The fact is, this high carb diet, coupled with the steroids has changed the way I metabolize food. Techincally I am now 5# overweight.

[aikoaiko]

62. I suppose you missed the part where I said everyone is different

based on biology (influencing the processing of food), economics (influencing choices), and environment (influencing almost everything).

Tell me, my knowledgable friend, when althletes get steriod injections, do the nutritionists say, "keep eating the way you are because there is nothing you can do about it" or do they modify the intake of calories ?

Or is it your position that poor people are biologically incapable of modifying their diet sufficiently to control weight?

[mondo joe]

76. Implicit in choice is equal access to all choices.

Compare the price of fresh broccoli and some lean meat with the cost of getting 3 burgers at McDonalds and a ginormous soda.

It IS possible to eat healthy even on a very tight budget, but it requires a lot of knowledge and planning and work.

The unfortunate situation is that in the US it's VERY easy and MUCH cheaper to eat poorly than it is to eat well.

[mondo joe]

41. Don't use tax $ to subsidize the most unhealthy foods, making the worst foods the most affordable.

It's true everyone makes choices.

It's also true, however, that those choices can be influenced or even limited by circumstance.

The best foods are often the most expensive, and thanks to corn subsidies the crappiest foods are the most available and affordable.

[gollygee]

43. That is so true and it reminds me

I was at the grocery store this morning. One of the things i needed was milk. I buy organic milk. I saw that there were "WIC" stickers by chocolate milk, but not by organic milk. *sigh*

[aikoaiko]

64. I can agree with not subsidizing un healthy foods.

[Deja Q]

42. And ambient psychological factors lead TO choices.

The world looks hopeless, so who in turn would do more for themselves, like exercise or pretty much anything else unless it sold lots of money (don't forget the drug problem in poverty-ridden communities...)? From their viewpoint, the whole world is going to end so they're not going to give a fuck. Not about themselves, you, or anyone else.

Sad.

[Deja Q]

40. Lack of exercise can contribute to obesity just as much as eating too many bad foods are

And cheap food is of lesser quality and contains more fats.

The saddest part is, corporate America has no qualms making other countries rich... at the cost of America. Maybe we should do what freepers say all the time and leave; we'd likely end up becoming prosperous ourselves. :crazy:

[bobbolink]

73. I finally had a chance to read your second link, and I disagree.

Rather than support the idea that poverty is abuse, as you have said so well, it just keeps repeating that poor people "don't get mental health services". CRAP!! Sometimes it's actually shoved down our throats!

We don't need "mental health services"-- we need good housing, good nutrition, lack of stress from well-meaning but sometimes abusive agencies, and knowing that we can take care of our life needs without selling our souls to those who have power over us.

" I swear people who have never been poor just don't FATHOM how hard it is to be poor. Poverty incidentally also fucks up your health and mental health because poverty is a form of abuse ,financial abuse.And it is stressful to live in poverty"

What you have said here is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT and to the point, than those damned psychologists!! I thank you for your words, and have bookmarked this post because it sounds like you do understand.

Thank you. :thumbsup:

[eridani]

80. Stigmatization of fat is definitely a class thing.

100 years ago, being pale and plump made the social statement "I sit around in the shade and drink mint juleps, unlike the rest of you slobs slaving away in the hot sun digging potatoes and chopping cotton." These days being tan and lean makes the social statement "I ski in the winter and play tennis in the summer, and I can afford a personal trainer, unlike the rest of you slobs sitting or standing around in offices and factories."

Note that this has fuckall to do with health--despite solid evidence linking excess sun exposure to skin cancer, "tan" STILL says "healthy/outdoorsy/rich". Another reversal is that white bread used to be an expensive luxury for the well-off; now it's dark whole grain bread that has that status.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

81. I'm Sorry, But This Is A Ridiculously Flawed Premise. (Obese Because Of Cheap Food)

I'm sure there are several contributing factors, such as health education levels, exercise/activity levels, and others. But I don't believe for a second that those in lower income brackets have overweight kids because cheap food is fattening. That's just simply absurd on its face. With proper exercise and eating habits, even in poverty, they overall should not be so obese. Same applies to those not in poverty. Though the study said a third of those in poverty, it isnt much higher than those who aren't. I just don't see ANYTHING in that article or elsewhere to lend any credence or credibility to your notion that it is because those in poverty can only feed their kids fattening food.

I'd say it's far more likely that the parents of these children are so stressed out and mentally fatigued from fighting against their situation, that they simply don't have the energy to focus on other things as strongly, such as ensuring their children have healthy diets and enough exercise. I agree that poverty weighs heavily on them (no pun intended, seriously), but it is probably that stress that keeps them from taking care of the nitty gritty health aspects that others might.

Ahhhh, who knows. All I know is it isn't because those in poverty can only feed their children fattening food.