Is it just Cleveland, or is the whole country going to shit?

[mikelewis]

I don't get to travel much and viewing the world with Google Earth and Web Cams hardly gives one perspective. Here in Cleveland, things are definitely going downhill fast. Our school system is a nightmare, people are broke and drug deals go down in broad daylight on a great many of our streets. Small businesses stay vacant all along main roadways, schools are collapsing or closing all over the city and we buried a lot of kids with fresh bullet holes this summer. The suburbs are faring a bit better but the signs for a collapse are there too. It looks pretty bleak around here so I was wondering what it was like out there in the rest of Bush Country.

[asthmaticeog]

1. I'm in Cleveland too. It's not this bad everywhere.

I swear.

[lonestarnot]

2. Are you looking like N.O. yet?

[mikelewis]

6. Are you serous? There's no poor people in New Orleans...

anymore. They got shipped out months ago. Hell, they even shipped some of them here. At least New Orleans is going to get a real Haliburton Barn-Raising. Least there's some future, a twisted Blade Runner sort of future but a future nonetheless.

[lonestarnot]

39. I'm not so sure I agree. If you ask the people in the 9th Ward, I'm

not so sure they would either.

[Rick Myers]

3. I'm originally from Youngstown

If you want to see what Clevo is going to look like, take a drive. I did live in Bedford, Mayfield Heights, Lakewood and Euclid thru the years, so I know of what you speak. I left for Minneapolis in 95, spent some time in Ytown in 2000, then back here to Minneapolis. Much like Toronto, and very blue!

[mikelewis]

23. I've been to Youngstown many times, you're right...

it's a broken-down ghost town. Cleveland is about 2 steps behind it.

[Marie26]

43. Me too!

Youngstown's had it pretty bad. It's a lot like Cleveland; struggling to make it now that industrial plants have closed. I'm always surprised how many people you meet who "used to be" from Youngstown - it's like almost more people have left than stayed. In Youngstown's defense, they did elect a new mayor & have cleaned up a lot the corruption. The local university is actually growing, and the city just built a new Convocation Center. But it's still very sad to drive down an empty Main Street and pass all the beautiful, abandoned, buildings.

[Straight Shooter]

4. A lot of the damage is going on behind closed doors.

No one will ever know.

[movonne]

5. I live in a small coastal town in Oregon and things here are not

bad yet...

[Thtwudbeme]

7. If you are in Bandon, or Yachats, I am going to cry

I spend HOURS looking at photos from Bandon---my favorite Oregon town.

[movonne]

32. Bandon

[1620rock]

8. Trillions wasted on war and death and destruction....

...but no money for our schools, our cities, our children, health care....yet everyone loves * ...It makes me sick of heart.

[leeroysphitz]

42. and don't think it isn't being done ON PURPOSE... n/t

[Matariki]

9. I left Allentown, PA in the early eighties

I got out of college during the Reagan era - and things really sucked. I couldn't even get a waitress job. Went back for a visit this year and jeez... pretty much like your description of cleveland.

[tlsmith1963]

10. I Judge Things...

...by El Cajon, CA., which is a small city close to where I live. It has definitely taken a nosedive in recent years. The crime-rate is way up from when I was younger. Since they built too many apartment buildings in the '60s & '70s, the buildings are now old & decrepit, & they have basically turned into slums. El Cajon used to be a great place. Now, there doesn't seem to be much hope for people who live there. Thanks a lot, uncaring neocons. I used to really like El Cajon, too. You ruined the place with your horrible policies.

Tammy

[John Grevstad]

11. No worries!! No Child Left Behind will save the day!!!

As a public school teacher, I get to see the downhill slide of society up close and personal. Don't get me wrong, there are some great kids, but over the past few years as poverty increases, certain things increase along with it.

It goes beyond the obvious (drug deals etc...) to hygiene issues for kids, absenteeism, and bizarre behavioral tendencies. Also, if you talk to police officers they will concur that things have gotten a lot worse over the past few years.

I only expect it to get worse.

But hey we do have No Child Left Behind

[Yupster]

46. I taught in the public schools from 1981-1990

and just in those ten years there was a dramatic difference in the classrooms.

The biggest difference was discipline which was clearly worse in 1990 than it was in 1981.

Teachers today have told me it has steadily gone down since I left.

What's the cause?

I guess there are probably 100 reasons. I think the biggest is so many kids living away from their mother, father or both. In some areas the number can be 70 % of kids not living with their parents.

PS - Back in the eighties there was a Russian comediane who defected named Yakov Smirnov. He had a brief run of popularity. One of his jokes was how he locked himself in a hotel room for months and did nothing but watch tv to learn english. Then he found out he was watching Galavision.

Anyway, the reason I thought oh him was another of his jokes. He said every country has one city that everyone makes fun of. In the USA everyone makes fun of Cleveland. Back in Russia though, everyone made fun of ........... no they made fun of Cleveland too. (rimshot)

[Jujiman]

12. Bumf#ck Nowhere Is Still Shit!

Out here in Bumf&ck Nowhere...the shit is still stinky!
At least that is what the NATIVES will tell ya.
Many of them are very CRANKY! NOT GOOD...:crazy:

[specimenfred1984]

13. D.C. is Like That in The Worst Areas

Gangs and shootings everyday. On the other side of the city people live in 3 million dollar houses. The burbs are a mix, getting progressively more repuke the further west into Va you go. The Maryland side is dem.

Businesses are getting by, there's always people in D.C. doing business. Torture Inc is doing the best (defense contractors, spys, private security, etc...) Lawyers, accountants, federal employees, builders and doctors have lots of people and places to sell their wares.

Washington has always been a rude city and now with its housing bubble popping, it's going to get a lot worse. In 2005, local residential housing increased 30% in price and incomes haven't kept up at all.

It's pretty in Va, lots of trees where I live but developers have been raping the whole area for the last 3 years, trying to cash in on the bubble.

[Lorien]

14. I lived there in the '80s. Cleveland has always had problems

(from what my dad tells me-he grew up there. Lots of mafia in cleveland). However, I live in Florida, and it's certainly been going downhill here since the Bushes took over. My hometown of Columbus isn't fairing well, either.

[LibDemAlways]

15. In L.A. traffic is a nightmare, home prices

are beyond ridiculous ($700K for crappy fixers), the public schools struggle to educate kids on a shoestring. There is a permanent underclass of immigrants who tend lawns, babysit, work at construction sites, carwashes, restaurants, fast food joints, and anywhere else cheap labor is needed. Thanks in no small part to the entertainment industry, there are also a significant number of people here who make big bucks and live lavishly. The divide between rich and poor is huge and the middle class is barely making it.

[Dr.Phool]

16. I've had a house in the West Park area I've been trying to get rid of

For over 3 years!!! Nice neighboorhood too. Then a broken pipe this summer complicated things. $50,000 damage.

[wurzel]

17. It is pretty bleak everywhere in US towns.

Recently did trip across country by car. Along the Interstates are all these "service areas" that intersect a road leading to a small town. Once these service areas were just gas and lodging. Now they include fast food and even supermarkets and malls. The towns providing labor for these services are now full of low wage workers, while all the town's small motels and shops etc. are pretty much out of business. These towns are really declining. And it is every where I went in every State. I always knew when I was approaching a new town because I started to see the same things over again. It was a grim eyeopener.

[KoKo]

18. I don't know...but Ohio does seem to be a huge Mess. Here where I live

Ohio license plates are all up and down the Carolinas with people vacationing at the beaches and buying homes here. Most of them in the age group looking to retire soon or retiring now. There was a huge influx on our beaches from Ohio starting when they built a big Interstate back in the 70's that took folks from Ohio straight to the SC Beaches and they came and they bought and they formed "BIG 10" clubs in their Gated Communities.

They came and voted Repug with the Southern contingent and turned SC and NC into totally Red States. As a native Southerner it pisses me off!

But, what's going on in Ohio will be everywhere soon...so I sympathize with you. Downsizing, jobs lost to outsourcing and Election Takeover like Georgia where Voter I.D's and Touchscreen/DRE's are the norm. Sonny Perdue and the Chief of Police of Georgia run the state as a Police State from the Soviet Style days.

Here in NC we are trying to beat back what has already happened in SC and Georgia. Ohio is not alone these days...just a seat of corruption that's being discovered. Maybe you will all fare better when Ney and Noe are in prison. :shrug:

I feel for Ya!

[Mrspeeker]

19. it looks good in my gated community!

Now known as the free speech zone

[Laelth]

21. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

-Laelth

[newyawker99]

40. Hi Mrspeeker!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[OzarkDem]

20. Its good and bad

I do travel quite a bit and live in the Cleveland area. A lot of cities are suffering, others doing better. Cleveland definitely has its weak areas, mostly because the corrupt GOP in state government has sucked the marrow out of Cleveland and NE Ohio. (BTW, if you take a drive south into some of the rural areas around Columbus, Dayton, etc. you'll see nice new roads, new schools, etc. Tax dollars are just being redistributed)

OTOH, Cleveland still has a LOT going for it compared to other cities. The health care system here is phenomenal - one of the best areas in the US.

[mikelewis]

26. I'm sure the health care is fine...

Though who has access to it. You need insurance to even walk in the door. I haven't had insurance in almost 5 years. I lost it 3 months after Bush took office and haven't seen it since. I'd have to be 90% dead to even drive to a hospital nowadays. The kids all have healthy start but they're taking that away too. Appearantly, $30k with a family of 5 is considered rich enough to pay $2000 a month for health insurance.

[OzarkDem]

31. Cleveland Clinic offers care for the uninsured

They don't broadcast it, but they do. If your income is low enough, its free. If not, they have a sliding scale or charity care for individuals or families up to 4 times the federal poverty level. It applies for hospital and physician services.

Call 216-445-6249 or toll free 866-621-6385.

[dchill]

22. I live in PA...

but my daughter goes to Cleveland State, so I get into town occasionally. What a dump! What a trash heap! It's a toilet, the pits! In other words, it's doing as well as the rest of the country. This IS Amurika.

[MakeItSo]

25. It's Ohio's Karma Coming Back to Roost

Become one of the millions of Americans who is proud to say they no longer live in the home of Diebold, Coingate, and fascist lawmakers. I went to high school in Southern Ohio after living in a city farther East and was shocked at the small-minded, bigoted, mean-spirited environment I was suddenly thrust into. I couldn't wait to leave and I did as soon as I was able.

All those assholes from my youth are probably leaders in the Republican party there now.

[asthmaticeog]

33. Cleveland's problems are the result of a decades-long leadership gap.

Calling them "karma" for Diebold is comically uninformed. Diebold is a Columbus company, and Cuyahoga County, which includes Cleveland, went like 70% for Kerry in 2004. For all practical purposes, there IS no Republican Party presence in Cleveland. With only one exception, it was Democratic mayors who've been overseeing this city's decline.

[MakeItSo]

35. There are plenty of RW fascists in the surrounding suburbs

of Cleveland. And besides, I can smell the stink of the Ohio Republican party machine all the way over on the Atlantic seaboard. Cities in crisis don't occur in a vacuum, regardless of the local municipal politicans.

[asthmaticeog]

37. People who dwell in the surrounding suburbs

don't get to vote for Cleveland's leaders. And there are plenty of liberal dems in the surrounding suburbs, too. Furthermore, Democrats are perfectly capable of sucking at civic leadership, which the last few decades of Cleveland's history quite handily proves; blaming all municipal failure on the party you oppose may make you feel good, but it isn't true. Politics is about policy, friend, not your emotional satisfaction.

Your olfactory talents, if as advertised, are impressive, though.

[MakeItSo]

38. State government budgets the money

State government sets many of the rules. But I hear what you're saying. As a (now) outsider, obviously I'm focused on issues with national ramifications, and the Ohio Republican Party and Diebold teamed together, in my opinion, to fix the 2004 national election, thereby impacting all of us.

Lake Erie is beautiful, though. Lots of pretty places in northeast Ohio, that's for sure. And lots of good people -- just not the majority :)

[HughBeaumont]

24. Isn't like 1/3 of Euclid Ave out of business?

One of my co-workers had older relatives come in from Eastern Europe for the Drunk Patrick's Day parade and one of them, who had seen war-torn Polish cities in the late 40s as a girl, said that Cleveland looks eerily bleak and similar. The House Of Blues is surrounded by abandoned buildings that used to be department stores.

Great idea putting the traffic cams in. I mean, downtown has SO much to offer, it's not like I can go to any Western or Eastern suburb and get what I want there without being assraped for parking and harassed by 300 pound sausage pigs; it would only make SENSE to put in something like traffic cams to make me want to come there MORE. :sarcasm:

I mean let's face it, who the hell's going to set up shop in freezing cold downtown Cleveland, which is littered with aggresive crackhead bums who smell like piss and ashtrays? When you walk on any street, 8 months out of the year it's literally like walking in a three-way arctic wind tunnel, the wind being so cold it burns your lungs and skin. Going to lunch is brutal.

Our politicians and cops are corrupt and our paper is being (thank GOD this asshole's finally retiring) run by a back-scratching, politicking staunch Repuke who doesn't let liberal opinion flow to his pages much. Our public transportation system is inadequate, unsecure and unreliable.

The only thing good about this stupid city are Keelhaul, LeBron James and one of the bluest bases in Ohio (might as well be THE bluest).

[Lars39]

27. There were 3 stores going out of business in our downtown

last time I was there. I've never seen more than one go out at a time.
There's lots of brand new Mac Mansions that are taking quite a while to sell.
There's a different feel to being in a public place now.

[lectrobyte]

28. Raleigh NC still seems to be a boomtown. My home in East TN

is a shell of itself. Empty strip malls, dead downtowns, half finished road projects... I forgot, the Super Wal-Mart is doing great.

[mitchtv]

29. Descending in the So Cal desert

plenty of beautiful new homes add to that however Robberies, burglaries, and home invasions . Crime is rampant. Three large mailboxes pulled from the ground last week from the Main street in Palm Springs, the one on my block pried open. Mail gets delivered after dark.Constant building, yet no one asks where the water is coming from.

[bud E. holly]

30. I like Cleveland

I live in Toledo......nuff said.
Believe it or not, we actually go to Cleveland........for fun. Concerts, ballgames, night-clubs, weekend getaways, anything to get away from HERE for a while. I guess if you live in Toledo, Cleveland looks like the Emerald City. I can remember when Cleveland hit bottom in the 70's, but I felt it had a nice Renaissance in the last 20 years or so. I'm not one to court danger, but I've always felt relatively safe walking around downtown (maybe I've been naive and lucky). I've always felt relatively safe in NYC too, but I know enough to be alert and have some smarts on the street. Now Detroit is a different story. I DO NOT feel safe in Detroit. It's the same distance from us as Cleveland, but we do not go there anymore. I guess all the rust-belt cities have suffered in the last five years, and the scars aren't always apparent to someone who visits once or twice a year. But we have always enjoyed Cleveland's charm (it's a rocknroll town!), even if it's just a facade now. :shrug:

[mikelewis]

34. What's Toledo like?

I know politically, it's a cess pool but I don't know too much about the city.

[bud E. holly]

36. makes Cleveland look like the Emerald City

Seriously, it tries. Unfortunately, Toledo's main industry, glass, is closely tied to Detroit's fortunes. Most of the other manufacturing is automotive industry related too. Strong Union town...every bit as "Blue" as Cleveland. They try to spark some life into the city with the limited funds they have. The new baseball stadium downtown helped a little. The big problem is there are no residents in the city. At 5 o'clock the place turns into a ghost town. Everybody splits for the burbs. The seriously poverty stricken outlying neighborhoods are huge, all out of proportion to the overall size of the city.
You are right about the political cess-pool.....and it shouldn't be because Democrats rule. But the players are entrenched and expend too much energy fighting amonst themselves.

[scarletlib]

41. These cities represent what happens when a nation lets

its businesses and industries disappear.

Since the 70's (Reagan Era), USA capitalists and corporatists have been seeking to drive down wages and destroy unions. One way to do this is just move the businesses off shore.

When a city or region loses its job base cities like Cleveland, Toledo, Flint are the result.

A nation going backwards.

[Marie26]

45. Cleveland actually has signs of life,

unlike many of the towns in Northeast Ohio. We'd always go to Cleveland for fun, too. The city does seem to have become safer; and created some good attractions w/the Flats & the Hall of Fame. It feels like the big rust-belt cities, like Cleveland & Pittsburgh, have bounced back some - it's the smaller towns that are dying.

[SmokingJacket]

44. Cleveland was a mess in the late 80's, too...

Then it had some good years. Sorry to hear they didn't last...

[WCGreen]

47. I was just over at Ward 6 the other night....

We drove down Euclid from East 40th on out....

It was like driving through a war zone...

The streets were deserted....

Buildings boarded up....

But then I drove to Westlake....

Got off at Crocker Rd.....

Crocker Park was alive, bustling...

then I went on out to Avon Commons....

It was alive and bustling....

Cleveland is rotting from the core out....

[kittykitty]

48. And I grew up in Bay Village when it was becoming a suburb

I lived there from 1939 to 1960. Westlake was nothing but farms and empty land. Avon was nothing but farms and empty land. Avon Lake was summer cottages. There were no Interstates. Rt 6, Lake Rd, was the main East West road. We went to drive-in movies, but progress arrived and the drive-in became a shopping mall, Westgate. We regarded it as one of the wonders of the world. And now my brother informed me they are tearing it down.

He told me that around Crocker Rd, they have recreated a "downtown", mimicking Euclid or Prospect Ave.
I cannot imagine this.

I feel sorry for people who never experienced the bustling downtown, Higbees and the railway terminal, that great marble underground place with restaurants and shops. Eating upstairs at The Silver Grill, The Public Square with streetcars, the May Company, the smell of roasting peanuts from the Nut shop, Taylor's, Halles, Sterling Linder Davis, Playhouse Square.

It was a wonderful time in Cleveland. The steel mills belched smoke into the air, ore boats came up the Cuyahoga River, and everyone had a job.

Cleveland is absolutely rotting from the center out, but pretty soon there will be no more "out" left. Then what?

[WCGreen]

49. Westgate was an open air mall.....

Then enclosed....

Now they tore it down to make an open air mall again....

Ah Progress...

Crocker Park is kinda cool....

It is shopping at the street level with Apartments and offices above....

It's only three streets by four streets now...

But they are going to surround it with town houses....

Here's a view down the main street...

[kittykitty]

50. Looks like Detroit Ave. What goes around comes around....

But I don't see the point of making open air shopping areas. I remember Westgate before it was enclosed. Having to leave a store, go out in the cold, especially if it was snowing, back into another heated store, out into the cold again. Same for summer, a/c store, the out into the humidity, back into the a/c. What for?

Thanks for the picture. I haven't been back to Bay for a couple years since my parents died.

[WCGreen]

51. I grew up in Westlake.....

Back when there were still active Farms....

I remember one night, driving around on Bradley Rd. when we were, ah hem, well it was the 70's, and we saw some freakin' sheep or goats or something in the road....

Only thing on the road now is SUV's....

[kittykitty]

53. And my HS friends who lived along Lake Rd, inherited their childhood homes

sold them for half a million dollars (as tear-downs) and moved to Avon Lake, or Westlake!

[leftofthedial]

52. repuke-controlled Murka is shit