Guys, please stop saying that the T-shirt thing was a plant/made up

[jsamuel]

I feel like I am at Freeperland and people see something they don't like, so they just make up a reason that it isn't true, WITHOUT ANY PROOF.

I am not saying that she wasn't a plant or that it wasn't made up, but there has been NO REASON to think otherwise. No evidence of anything out of the ordinary. It even fits with this particular woman's personality.

I love you guys, but I hate to see people here go off the deep end like this.

The REAL issue is that one was asked to leave and the other was arrested and charged. That is what we should be concentrating on with this issue.

So, please move on with this one. Thanks!

[Maddy McCall]

1. Troll! j/k

Just kidding! Actually, I agree with you. :hi:

[FreedomAngel82]

2. Here is the point

So do you believe Alito's wife really cried too? I will not move on. Where's the Young's defending Cindy Sheehan's right to speech? I haven't heard a peep out of them yet about it. Only themselves. Selfish selfish!

Link: http://infowars.com/articles/media/sheehan_mainstream_media_spin_machine.htm

The point: Secondly, Young wasn't arrested, she was merely asked to leave. Sheehan was forcibly dragged out of the building and handcuffed and held in detention for hours. Young was asked politely to leave, the Waffen SS wannabe that arrested Sheehan barked the word "Protester" before he dived in. Young argued loudly with officers and called them "idiots" while Sheehan calmly pleaded for them to let her leave quietly.

It is clear that both T-shirts were making political statements, but only the anti-government shirt was deemed to be an arrestable offence.

Furthermore, would Young have been asked to leave if the Sheehan incident hadn't already occurred and Bush's security goons weren't wary of saving face?

With the enveloping stranglehold of 'free speech zones' at any political event, the parameters have been framed whereby any political message or any information period is classified as a felony. New Patriot Act provisions that allow secret service personnel to arrest protesters en masse dovetails to ensure the elimination of free speech in America.

And you don't even have to be at a political event to be targeted.

[malaise]

22. Until I see a photo or a video clip

I will not buy this bullspit. Isn't it amazing that the corporate media are spending time interviewing her about it, but they aren't interviewing Cindy. All now they can't show one photo that it happened, and haven't presented one witness. Spare me. If it looks like bullspit from these people, it usually is bullspit. She is now the star of the foul up re Cindy - just perfect. Fugg them.

[Karenina]

23. Here's one eyewitness account

of a Beverly Young sighting...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x303952

[sandnsea]

3. It was held up on the house floor

I don't think that Congressman would have held up the shirt and made it a spectacle if his wife hadn't actually worn the shirt. My local news also showed a picture of her in the shirt, in an office but I'm not sure when it was taken. And said that Cindy was arrested but that they had to admit they were wrong to evict them and had to drop charges. So now Cindy has a clear case because they were clearly wrong and have had to admit it.

[Dr Fate]

6. It's true- she does have the shirt.

I'll probably eat crow on this whole thing- but I still want to see some footage of how this all went down- how DID it all go down and why did no one photograph it?

[LittleClarkie]

14. He sounded like he was pissed. The prez is talking about supporting

the troops, meanwhile his wife is escorted out for wearing a tshirt that says just that.

I don't think he'd be making a stink about it if it weren't true. Plus the woman has a history of visiting soldiers in hospitals, and bitching at the government when they do things to the troops, like making them pay for their meals, and such. For all I know, she was actually, if not protesting, trying to remind Bunnypants of his duty to support the troops, something we all know he only gives lip service to, not action.

I think she was legit. But the media is trying to spin it, just as they tried to spin the Abramoff scandal as bipartisan.

[Dr Fate]

21. Most likely. But I still wonder why no one photographed it.

I would think unified guards ejecting a lady wearing a huge patriotic slogan on it would make an interesting photo.

Maybe we will see the pics tomorrow and I will eat crow...

[Dr Fate]

4. I hear ya- I'll eat crow when I see the photos.

I like conspirasy theories- they exist when the goverment hides things or is known to make things up (see WMDs, Swifboats, etc, etc)

May favortie ones are "JFK" and some of the old Jack the Ripper theories from the 70's. I dont believe in most conspiracies 100%, but parts of them are compelling and probably on target in some cases...

They are healthy and necessary.

I admit it- I may may eat crow on this- but I'm suprised there are no photos of this "incident" yet.

[FreedomAngel82]

5. It's not a consperiacy if you have the facts to prove it

[balzac]

7. I strongly disagree with you.

I don't know who started this question about whether the republican woman actually wore a shirt. I assumed she did, but I assumed immediately that the republican woman, wittingly or unwittingly, was part of a strategy to drown out Cindy's message.

That was the FIRST thought in my mind upon hearing a republican woman had been removed for a t-shirt. We knew at least an hour before the SOTU address that cindy was on the guest list. The T-shirt is a standard tactic because they don't strip everyone to make sure they're not wearing a T-shirt with a political message. A man did it during a clinton SOTU, and code pink did it.

[Dr Fate]

8. I concede that your take makes much more sense. But-

I still wonder why no footage or photos of the incident is being shown- surely there where photographers there who saw the T-Shirt and the two guards confronting her.

[balzac]

11. My conspiracy theory doesn't require that she wore it or didn't wear it.

It's enough that they claim she wore it. I know that they pull this kind of crap all the time. It's routine and every day that elaborate deceptions are fabricated. I'd bet my left nut that this was one of those elaborate deceptions.

That said, it takes a very firm grip on objective reality, sensitivity to pattern recognition, and statistical probability to confront this web of lies and not get swept up by stupid conspiracy theories.

They put out red-herring theories to distract and confuse. Also, our own well-meaning people put out stupid conspiracy theories which only confuse people. Stupid conspiracy theories hurt us bad. Example: observe how public support for a thorough investigation of 9/11 was eroded by morons who bray noisily that explosives brought down the WTC towers, rather than planes.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[Dr Fate]

10. Was the person at the Clinton SOTU arrested or removed? n/t

n/t

[balzac]

12. He was removed, not arrested.

There is no precedent for what they did to Cindy.

[Dr Fate]

16. What did he do? T shirt or what? Do ya have a link? n/t

n/t

[niyad]

19. yes, but did the man at clinton's SOTU get thrown out and arrested? was

he manhandled, and left with bruises?

[LittleClarkie]

20. Or Bush is just scared of angry women in tshirts

Save me Uncle Dick! Save me!!

Beverly sent him an angry letter, doncha know. Heh.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/12/23/Southpinellas/Gifts_for_soldiers_wo.shtml

[Charlie Brown]

9. I will not take Young seriously until he/she also defend Cindy Sheehan

Otherwise, they're just elitist hypocrites (who were not roughed-up and arrested like Cindy).

[Nostradammit]

13. Yes, clearly our Republican brethren are beyond such tactics -

Let us not soil ourselves with this nasty suspicion.

What manner of beast would stoop to such horrible machinations just to score political points?


It brings tears to my eyes to see us sully our minds with such treacherous thinking.


All my love ~

Nostradammit

[LittleClarkie]

15. Could have and did are two different things.

I agree with the OP. We, unlike the freepers, should require proof of some sort.

[Dr Fate]

17. Probably 100% right- but I'd like to see footage or photos.

How did this go down?

Di she just walk in twith the T-Shirt exposed, or did they nab her once she unbuttoned her jacket or somthing?

[Nostradammit]

18. These people lied us into an illegal and immoral war

These people are illegally spying on American citizens.

These people intentionally outed a CIA agent for political purposes.

Strangely, I'd be somehow disappointed if they HADN'T cooked up a scheme to cover their asses for throwing her out.

And the underlying message to the hypnotized masses is: Support the Troops - Enjoy the Party / Show Dissent - Get Shown the Door.

[jsamuel]

24. kick

[Javaman]

25. it was a plant and made up...

:rofl:

[Protagoras]

26. I don't question that she wore the shirt...I do question

why people doubt that stuff like this isn't planned in advance in order to innoculate against another action or story (like the planned tossing of Cindy).

It's not like we're talking about a vast and complex evil play...stuff like this is PR 101.