Just how dumb are Americans, anyway?

[Zhade]

In comparison to the rest of the world, I mean.

So many people in this country, even among good liberal folk, seem to buy into bullshit like "Iraq is a threat", "marijuana makes you stupid", "Oswald acted alone", "free trade doesn't hurt the economy or workers", and other nonsense.

Do Canadians believe those myths? How gullible are Germans? Swedes? The Dutch? Koreans? Australians? Pakistanis?

Basically, how loose is the average American's grasp on actual reality, compared to the rest of the world, and how much does the collective ignorance of our historic and current corruption add to the "USA! USA!" mentality?

Thoughts from those NOT in the U.S. are especially welcome.

[punpirate]

1. I think that intelligence is fairly distributed amongst humans...

... and if I take your examples, well, Canada just created a minority government with a conservative idiot at its helm, as has Germany. Half the Koreans are giving their labor to a dictator, and the other half have created a government nearly as corrupt as ours. The Australians have reelected Howard and are toying with some truly repressive laws because they're afraid of terrorism, too. The Pakistanis are being ruled by a military dictator.

Each country has the same problems. The unfortunate issue here is the influence the United States has on other countries--for good or ill. We're promoting an insanity in much of the rest of the world that their populations have not resisted any more effectively than our own has.

Cheers.

[upi402]

2. intelligence generally close; education, media, diet, environm = different

The rest of the world that I've visited DOES think we're asshole idiots. It used to be merely idiots.

[punpirate]

3. Maybe not that different...

... look at the examples. :shrug:

[oasis]

4. 60 million dimwits sent a 4 year failure back to the White House. That

says it all. :dunce: x 60 million.

[SammyBlue]

36. Kick! Very good response!

If you have an R next to your name and don't have a trust fund, you're stupid.

If you have an R next to your name and live in poverty, you're dumb!

[Jemmons]

5. American "greatness" is becoming a stale joke

I'm danish and I really do believe that the US public is kept in ignorance about the rest of the world. Your MSM is a joke and FoxNews shows how immensely stupid a lot of americans have to be.

But the thing that really stands out is the stern belief in american "Greatness", which is getting more and more of a joke as you have do more hours for less pay and have next to no rights, no unions, no job security, no unemployment benefits, no public health care. I tend to think that the Democratic Party should take close look at the nordic model for a vision of a future america: Capitalist economy under socialist regulation really works for the Best of all parties. Denmark has a GPD per capita almost equal to the US, the difference being that in Denmark its evenly spread, while in america only the ultra rich benefits. Check out CIAs website for data on other countries and this thread for a discussion about america and socialism by a mixed international group:


http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=213088&highlight=socialism

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/da.html

[upi402]

7. Thanks for stopping in!

I think you're right. Omnipresent propaganda worked on Russians and Germans as well.

[OneBlueSky]

6. more numb than dumb . . .

the media has made sure of that, and reinforces it daily . . . it's difficult for people numbed out in front of screens to think critically, understand when their government is not acting in their own best interest, or act collectively to initiate change . . . it's easier to just keep staring at the screens and hope someone else does the thinking and the acting . . .

kinda like a nationwide drug addiction without the drugs . . .

[azurnoir]

9. There was a '70's

book called "Future Shock" one of the theories in the the was that in the (then) not to distant future we would have access to so much info (in part via personal computer no less) that it would become "white noise" a blur and the average would feel utterly powerless to change or affect anything outside some parts of our personal lives. The book was considered "pop psychology" at the time, but I truly believe that this is what has happened.

[fasttense]

12. Hi Azurnoir and welcome. I remember that book

I must admit I never read it. But all the pundit of the day had an opinion about it. Hmmm, an overload of information, sounds familiar.

[Psephos]

8. This kind of statement gets tiresome

Losers and whiners point out how dumb others are, in my experience.

I'm sure of one thing - a party that wants to win elections should lay off constantly telling the electorate how stupid they are.

As Antoine de St. Exupery said, if you wish to build a ship, don't consign wood and conscript laborers. Instead, inspire people to long for the sea.

Peace.

[Skelington]

20. The most relevant, and clear view I've read in a LONG time !!!!!!!!!!!

Keep it coming, and you don't even have to put it on a t-shirt!!!!!!!!!!
BRILLIANT !!!!!!!

[Zhade]

21. Thanks for kicking my thread.

:)

[Psephos]

27. LOL My pleasure - and thank you for proving my point :)

Also, just a thought, it's not your thread. It's ours.

[Zhade]

29. I think you just insulted me, but that's okay.

Your opinion is yours, you're welcome to keep it...and you kicked my thread again.

Win-win, as far as I see it!

[Raine]

24. Good insight

the Democratic party has gotten the reputation of being know it all elitists who think they are smarter than anyone else. I happen to think WE ARE smarter but it's not to smart to tell others that. One thing most people HATE is to have their intelligence questioned.

[FlemingsGhost]

10. Americans are so "dumb," they're STILL counting on elections

as a means to dispose of a fascist regime.

Speaking of "tiresome."

[LibertyorDeath]

11. .

:toast:

[DainBramaged]

13. I think this speaks volumes

[praxiz]

14. Thoughts of a Norwegian.

Iraq is a bigger threat now than 4 years ago. The world is a lot less safe now.

People who smoke pot can do anything anyone else can do, just as well, they just realize it's not worth the fucking effort.

Oswald went to the cinema alone, I believe. After JFK was shot.

Free trade is good for companies, bad for workers. Horrible for poor countries who can't find a market to sell the few exports they have.


I would say that many Americans are ignorant but not because they are unintelligent. Mostly because they've grown up with the notion that they are number one and everyone else in the world is less worth and actually looks up to them. So why bother get to know anything outside the US?

Patriotism and religion makes you blind and fences in your soul.

[Mnemosyne]

15. Where did you ever find

such an accurate hammer praxiz? :smoke:

"I would say that many Americans are ignorant but not because they are unintelligent. Mostly because they've grown up with the notion that they are number one and everyone else in the world is less worth and actually looks up to them. So why bother get to know anything outside the US?"

I think that chosen ignorance is the most pitiful of all. And the one that causes me the most frustration in life!

Great post, thank you! :toast:

In peace and hope,
V

[Zhade]

16. Arg! Typo.

I meant to write Iran, not Iraq.

[Jara sang]

17. pretty fuckin'

[Just Me]

18. Well, I think they tend to be very gullible (trusting) as opposed to dumb

Just MHO.

[XOKCowboy]

19. Is this a rhetorical question?

Americans reelected this president and the world stood aghast. We impeached Clinton for a blowjob and the world said "WTF?". We invaded Iraq and the world said it was an occupation but Americans heard their leaders saying we were fighting terrorism and just nodded.

Americans are that dumb. They're dumb enough to believe that the rest of the world supports this war because it's what they've been told. Just like they believe Iraq is a better place now becaus it's what they've been told.

I'd pity them if it wasn't ruining our country.

[toddaa]

22. You know how dumb the average person is?

Well, by definition, half of 'em are even dumber than THAT.

[jobendorfer]

23. the problem is collective intelligence, not individual intelligence

Collective intelligence can be derived by individual intelligence by the following
formula, which I (modestly) call "Obendorfer's Law of Collective Intelligence":

collective intelligence Ic = 1 / ( 1/I1 + 1/I2 + ... 1/In)

where I1, I2, ... In are the IQ scores of the members of the collective.

This has the property that the collective intelligence of a group is always
smaller than that of the dumbest member.

It explains why committees never get anything useful down, large meetings
are almost invariably pointless, and Congress is nearly hopeless.

Anyone who believes in the power of collective intelligence has never sat
in a traffic jam. Fifty thousand people, all wanting to do the same thing,
and STILL nothing happens.

J.

[NuttyFluffers]

32. pretty much what i was going to say

if you talk to people individually you'll find out that many of them, i'd dare say most of them, are pretty savvy people, no matter their educational training. but mobs are profoundly stupid.

an interesting sidenote is the issue of people who have given over their individual identity over to a collective identity. these people tend to be operating under the effect of mob rule 24/7. they are under the unescapable sway endlessly it seems. and sometimes their madness is infectious. one often finds these lobotomized zombies in overzealous (aka. 'false') patriotism, religiosity, ideology, etc. watch out for people who have gladly given over their brain for the refuge of obedience and mob safety, they don't know how to put down that crack pipe of delusion and lies.

[0rganism]

25. I think we have to be more descriptive about "dumb"

Obviously, the thread is not about mutes. But what are you really looking for?

From your post, I'm seeing "dumb" construed as "believing that which is bullshit" or "having a loose grasp on reality." Well, neither of those constitutes an American-only epidemic, IMHO.

I would generalize about USians thusly:
1) We are regularly misinformed by mass media, which supersaturates our daily lives
2) We are mostly apathetic, but tend to be vengeful and greedy when provoked or tempted
3) We are very religious, if not generally spiritual, and readily cast aspersions on perceived heathans
4) Although we like to think of ourselves as fiercely independent, we are also authoritarians, and prefer to believe that those presented as leaders and experts are trustworthy and moral, deserving of their labels
5) We are excessively patriotic and provincial, and consider other nations to be defective and/or inferior regardless of areas in which they may measurably outperform us

(Of course each of these alone is not, in and of itself, exclusively American, nor specifically applicable to every American, but from my experience this is the generalization I would make about our population.)

As a consequence of this combination, we come across as callous, careless, hypocritical, dense, shallow, self-serving, and sanctimonious people of little discernment. Some of that is compounded by active individual stupidity, true enough, but I don't think stupidity is either necessary or sufficient explanation for our global image.

[Zhade]

26. Yeah, perhaps "horribly misinformed and too stubborn to admit it"...

...would have been a better choice.

[depakid]

28. Last time I was in Australia

I got more informed and thoughtful discussion about politics and current affairs from blokes in roadhouses in far north Queensland than I get from the average American University student. This was also the case the last time I was in England and Wales.

Americans are largely a disinterested lot- not stupid, per se- many can recite (and calculate) obscure sports statistics- or comment on the details of the latest Hollwood gossip- yet remain uttely clueless about the policies that have a direct effect on them- and their families.

[omega minimo]

30. Programmed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2435532&mesg_id=2435532

[dchill]

31. Dumb as we wanna be!

[B Calm]

33. Saddam moved those WMD's because he heard

there was an invading army getting ready to invade his country...

[B Calm]

34. I heard he was saving them for a rainy day..

[0rganism]

35. He was keeping the powder dry for extraordinary circumstances

Saddam Hussein is the charter member of the Gang of 14!