Administration Says Article II Authorizes Warrentless, Domestic Wiretaps

[Syrinx]

But I can't seem to find that. Can you?

Article II

Section 1

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice-President chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

(The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not lie an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two-thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice-President.) (This clause in parentheses was superseded by Amendment XII.)

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected. (This clause in parentheses has been modified by Amendments XX and XXV.)

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section 2

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Section 3

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Section 4

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

[shraby]

1. I don't see anything in there about surveillance at all...

warrantless or otherwise. They're pulling rabbits out of a hat on this one.

[babylonsister]

3. No, not out of their hat... Seems they're acting a bit

anxious to find a valid excuse, and every one they're coming up with isn't working.

[bleever]

2. I see plenty about impeaching law-breaking presidents,

but nothing about how they can break the laws with impunity.

Maybe they're reading a different Constitution??

[baldguy]

16. It's that Secret Constitution

You know, to go with the Secret Government we have.

[hang a left]

4. Nope. Not there.

Have to agree with shraby. Their grasping at straws.

[proud patriot]

5. I like section 4

:D

[Cleetus]

6. Bush says "Trust me"

The chimp says "Trust me, I spoke with my lawyer, and everything is legal"

Sure. With the chimp it's one lie after another. These bastards can spin this anyway they want, buy FISA was there all along. That, and they could have changed the rules anytime they wanted to.

So, why didn't they?

Because they didn't want anyone to know *who* they were spying on. There is way more to this than we know.

[FreedomAngel82]

9. And I'm sure his lawyer

is Gonzalez right?

[Loge23]

13. The Incredibly Evil Professor Yoo

Either him or John C. Yoo, the background evilmeister of torture/imprisonment infamy.

[Walt Starr]

27. You'd be wrong.

His lawyer is Harriet Meiers. You know, the one with no legal experience whatsoever that he wanted to be a SCOTUS justice.

[jody]

7. The answer in part includes executive orders that create law just as

effectively as laws passed by congress. SCOTUS typically avoids getting involved in disputes between congress and the president leaving abuse of executive orders in limbo.

It's difficult for congress to pass a law overturning an executive order because just 34 senators or 146 congresspersons can sustain a presidential veto.

A google search of - presidential "executive orders" - will yield numerous articles from both right and left accusing presidents of abusing executive orders.

[hang a left]

12. But can an executive order

negate the Constitution? I think there may be a problem with that.

[jody]

15. Yes if congress does not act and SCOTUS refuses to hear the case.

Please browse Wikipedia Executive Order

[Inland]

20. Until somebody asserts illegally gathered evidence

in the defense to a criminal trial. Granted, Bush is trying to solve that problem by claiming that he need not allow trials, but it's already being raised by defendant's accussed of terror.

[jody]

32. Agree. Then SCOTUS must rule on the legality. Scalia & Thomas would

probably vote yes it's legal and its at least possible a majority would also vote yes.

[Inland]

34. But long before that, the politics........

those lefties wanting to let terrarists go on techincalities, and the call to scale back constitutional rights for those lucky enough to be allowed trials in the first place. Bush will use the very assertion as reason why we need more people treated like Padilla and thrown in brigs without any trials or courts or lawyers.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. Of course he's lying

The founding fathers didn't put anywhere that the president could break the fourth amendment "during war time" or any law for that matter. It's my understanding that the Commander in Chief is the military term for him having the final say in the military. Nothing with his (or possibly her) powers of authority don't change or have any special privilege.

[Jade Fox]

10. Even if it did....

that doesn't explain why Bush lied and lied about doing warrantless searches:

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/051220/afp/051220194444top.html

[madokie]

33. Lying is really the only thing he thinks he's good at,

someone tell him we are onto him, have been from day one.


he's been polishing that vocation for a long, long time.

[TahitiNut]

11. "Commander in Chief"

I wonder if Cheney allows Mortimer Smirk to wear a nifty, neato uniform as long as he stays out of sight? Notice how it says he "shall have Power"??

I wonder how many of these fascists see the male pronoun "he" and believe firmly that it means the Constitution prohibits females from holding those powers.

[Inland]

18. "of the Army and Navy of the United States"

Which pretty much rules out being commander in chief of ME and able to therefore secretly commandeer my person and property.

[TahitiNut]

25. You have to read it like Junior reads it ...

... picking out anything that can be used to support his claims and ignoring anything that doesn't. It's like "proof-texting" from the Bible - the confundies don't pay attention to anything but what they can filter out and twist to meet their agenda.


Suggestion for all ... Google "proof-texting" and read up on it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22proof-texting%22&btnG=Google+Search

It's NOT a new thing ... but has reached new depths of corruption today, both in selecting 'affirmatives' from the Bible and in selecting/filtering 'negatives' from the Qur'an.

[Mossadeq]

14. I can explain their views...

You guys will think this is funny.

They are pimping this article...
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007734

Which says this...

"For nearly 200 years it was understood by all three branches that intelligence collection--especially in wartime--was an exclusive presidential prerogative vested in the president by Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution. Washington, Madison, Jefferson, Hamilton, John Marshall and many others recognized that the grant of "executive power" to the president included control over intelligence gathering. It was not by chance that there was no provision for congressional oversight of intelligence matters in the National Security Act of 1947."

And if you google the first few words in the paragraph,(For nearly 200 years it was understood by all three branches)...the first link is freerepublic

There are taking the position of a opinion...

[Inland]

19. So it all depends on what the meaning of "intelligence" and "wartime"

We have President Bush's own assurance that each and every wiretap was for "intelligence" and his own personal metaphor of a "war on terror".

[FreakinDJ]

17. The SPYing was not Terror related

THAT IS WHY THEY DID NOT USE THE FISA WARRENT

Which only leave political enemys

[hang a left]

21. An excellent point I keep forgetting.

I hate that.

[Triana]

22. That, is a LIE. They wrongly assume that most people

don't know or won't LOOK at the content and statements in Article II. Unlike GEORGE BU$H, the rest of us can READ. There isn't a damn thing in there about warrantless surveillance of US citizens.

MORE bu$hit!

[HereSince1628]

23. I read this last week that specific laws trump general laws

in terms of which one gets followed when an interpretation of their applicability to a circumstance must be made.

I'm not a lawyer so if you can straighten me out on this I'd appreciate it, but claims to authority to conduct warrantless surveillance seem to require something like the following...

Article II says nothing respect to allowing the president to authorize warrantless searches and seizures. Which is to say it is not at all specific on this topic.

The fourth Amendment on the other hand is specific about not allowing warrantless searches and seizures. Consequently Article II would be expected to be interpreted and applied in a manner consistent with Amendment IV.

FISA is a much more specific law that Amendment IV and carefully provides for how a secret electronic surveillance gets authorized. Consequently with respect to secret wiretapping of American citizens, the application of Article II and Amendment IV would be expected to be applied in a manner consistent with FISA, unless FISA is found to be unconstitutional after more than 25 years of acceptance and use.

[notadmblnd]

24. What, they think we can't read?

I saw nothing in the document about warrentless searches.

[kevinbgoode]

26. So what he is claiming is that he is really a military dictator

instead of a President. Great....a National Guard dropout declares himself Napolean.

[Syrinx]

28. The Constitution doesn't say the government can do that!!

Those wacky "strict constructionists," I guess. :shrug:

[EstimatedProphet]

29. It's right there in the first line

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
See? He has the power to do that after all!

[nolabels]

30. Damn, so it was there all the time after all

Btw are you sure you with this revelation that were not just channeling the King Monkey himself :shrug:

[rucky]

31. "It's just a piece of paper" - W, (2 weeks ago)