“Cheney, Libby Knew Niger Yellow-Cake Allegations Were Bogus...”

[Me.]

Iraq, Niger, And The CIA

By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Feb. 2, 2006

“Vice President Cheney and his then-Chief of Staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby were personally informed in June 2003 that the CIA no longer considered credible the allegations that Saddam Hussein had attempted to procure uranium from the African nation of Niger, according to government records and interviews with current and former officials. The new CIA assessment came just as Libby and other senior administration officials were embarking on an effort to discredit an administration critic who had also been saying that the allegations were untrue.


The campaign against Joseph Wilson continued even after the CIA concluded that Iraq had not tried to buy uranium from the African nation of Niger.” Cont….

“The new disclosures raise questions as to why Libby and other Bush administration officials continued their efforts to discredit Wilson -- even as they were told that claims about Iraq's having procured uranium from Niger were most likely a hoax.

The answer may lie in part with the already well-known misgivings about the CIA by Cheney, Libby, and other senior Bush administration officials. At one point during that period -- the summer of 2003 -- Libby confronted a senior intelligence analyst briefing him and the vice president and accused the CIA of willfully misleading him and the administration on Niger. Libby was said to be upset that the CIA, in his view, had routinely minimized the extent to which Iraq was pursuing weapons of mass destruction and was now prematurely attempting to distance itself from the Niger allegations.” Cont…

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2006/0203nj3.htm

[H2O Man]

1. True.

One of the things I learned working in forensics was that criminals primarily lie about things they know are not true.

[DemInDistress]

2. they knew niger was a fraud and they knew 911 was coming down the

pike..chances are they are the scumbags behind the 911 attacks and all that was needed to fool all America was
the crashing of those commercial jets..Explosives brought down the World Trade Center not fires...

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemInDistress]

12. stupid bombs in NYC,,,wow 3,000 innocent people died

from those "stupid bombs" 911 was an inside job.. 911 was the birth of PNAC..yes the gop and the bush crime family would like to attack America again becuase of the heat...spygate,unpatriot act,palmate,iraq nam, and to control the country...a new new pearl harbor would certainly bring about Martial Law and a suspension of the Bill of Rights as well as cancel the Nov elections thus keeping the status quo... bush gop will remain power until further notice...

sorry to disagree with you but when you wake up, call me !!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. What is the point of this?

Are you just ranting for no reason, or is there some specific purpose to your hijacking of this thread?

[Joe Chi Minh]

20. Welcome to the DU.

[Pachamama]

21. Dude...my husband and I lost 5 friends in the WTC...

Regardless of whether it was an airplane into the building or something else, they are dead and please don't refer to it as a "stupid bomb theory"...there are actually a lot of reasons to question the "official" story, and families of 9/11 have been asking themselves those very same questions....please don't question any theories or call them stupid...

Meanwhile, I'm not following your red-herring and being thrown off the trail comment...please explain...

[AntiFascist]

24. I have to agree...

cool it with the extreme conspiracy theory because it gives credence to the those who claim we are all whacko.

[Just Me]

29. Agree. These issues MUST be separated because they are separate.

9/11 is a completely separate matter from the fraud committed upon Congress and the citizens of the U.S.

It's a huge mistake to mix those matters.

This cabal INTENTIONALLY created a falsehood in order to get their war, which they KNEW they would not have gotten without committing such fraud upon the people. THAT IS THE ISSUE IN THIS MATTER.

BTW, Welcome to DU! :hi: Glad to have your mind applied to the keyboard in participation here. :P

[AlCzervik]

3. Waas has done a lot of really good reporting on this story.

[savemefromdumbya]

4. Wasn't Libby caught up in weapons smuggling?

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Sounds like Libby is going to fall on his sword

for Cheney. What a nice boss.


Libby and others in the office of the vice president apparently were even more suspicious because they mistakenly believed that Plame worked for WINPAC, according to these sources. When they also learned that Plame possibly played a role in Wilson's selection for the Niger mission, their suspicions only intensified.

One indication of Cheney's personal interest in the subject was that some of Libby's earliest and most detailed information regarding Plame's CIA employment came directly from the vice president, according to information contained in Libby's grand jury indictment.

"On or about June 12, 2003," the indictment stated, "Libby was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Division. Libby understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA."

It would not have been improper or illegal for Cheney to discuss Plame's CIA employment with Libby or other government officials with high security clearances. No public evidence has emerged during the two-year grand jury probe by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald that Libby acted at the vice president's behest in leaking details of Plame's CIA employment to the press, or that Cheney even knew that Libby was doing so.

[Me.]

6. Perhaps Cheney Gave The Orders

In a now deletyed email.

[radio4progressives]

11. nahh... if there is even a conviction, Libby will Appeal and Alito et al

will let them off. failing that, bush will grant Libby a pardon..

he will not be doing time, i gar an tee you.

[Dunvegan]

7. The campaign against Plame and Brewster-Jennings was required

...to keep BJ from busting all the efforts to plant WMD in Iraq.

Brewster-Jennings and Plame were just too good at their job...which was to stop movements of WMDs.

[Mnemosyne]

9. Over the top. n/t

[RedEarth]

10. kr

[Edward Copeland]

13. And there is a new British memo as well

showing Dubya was reading to invade Iraq two months earlier than thought

http://edwardcopeland.blogspot.com/2006/02/another-british-memo-indicates-iraq.html

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. Another log

for the evidence pile. Do we have enough evidence to convict these bastards for war crimes yet?

BTW: Welcome to DU :hi:

[Me.]

15. Where, I Wonder, Have All These Memos Been Hiding?

They could have shaped a war effort and reconfigured an election.

[newyawker99]

50. Hi Edward Copeland!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[msatty99]

16. WHO FORGED THE DOCUMENTS

For me, it comes as no surprise that there was a smear of Wilson or that the WH knew the
claims were bogus.

What I want to know..very much...is who was the person who sat down and forged these
documents.

Some human person who wanted the Iraq war wanted this and forged these documents and got them
'out' into the channels where they would be 'picked up'.

I have seen that the documents got into the American Consulate in Italy where they were
further disbursed. Does anyone here know the answers? I also believe I have read that
the FBI opened up an investigation into this very question. If so..what happened to
the investigation.

I have also read that some former officials have claimed the documents were forged by
someone in the Pentagon. It would seem a matter of National Security and of National
Interest to learn who was producing fake information and evidence to mislead the President
and the Nation into an unjustified war action. Who ever that person is, they are a danger
to our nation and until we know who it is we are at risk of that same person or
persons generating more fake evidence that misleads our nation in strategic decisions.

[robertpaulsen]

22. Check out this thread, I think we're close to the answer.

CONTROVERSIAL NEOCON ADMITS He Worked at Magazine That Found Niger Docs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=163776


Here's a couple key posts that show which direction we went:

stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Jan-19-06 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. All right I'll take a swing - Have you guys already seen this article??


Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 03:36 AM by stop the bleeding

it?

Who was behind the Niger uranium documents?-by Philip Giraldi,The American Conservative 11/25/2005 issuue
Philip Giraldi, a former CIA Officer, is a partner in Cannistraro Associates, an international security consultancy.

Enter the ususal Suspects


The first suggestion that Iraq was seeking yellowcake uranium to construct a nuclear weapon came on Oct. 15, 2001, shortly after 9/11, when Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and his newly appointed chief of the Servizio per le Informazioni e la Sicurezza Militare (SISMI), Nicolo Pollari, made an official visit to Washington. Berlusconi was eager to make a good impression and signaled his willingness to support the American effort to implicate Saddam Hussein in 9/11. Pollari, in his position for less than three weeks, was likewise keen to establish himself with his American counterparts and was under pressure from Berlusconi to present the U.S. with information that would be vital to the rapidly accelerating War on Terror. Well aware of the Bush administration’s obsession with Iraq, Pollari used his meeting with top CIA officials to provide a SISMI dossier indicating that Iraq had sought to buy uranium in Niger. The same intelligence was passed simultaneously to Britain’s MI-6.

~snip~

Enter Michael Ledeen, the Office of Special Plans’ man in Rome. Ledeen was paid $30,000 by the Italian Ministry of the Interior in 1978 for a report on terrorism and was well known to senior SISMI officials. Italian sources indicate that Pollari was eager to engage with the Pentagon hardliners, knowing they were at odds with the CIA and the State Department officials who had slighted him. He turned to Ledeen, who quickly established himself as the liaison between SISMI and Feith’s OSP, where he was a consultant. Ledeen, who had personal access to the National Security Council’s Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley and was also a confidant of Vice President Cheney, was well placed to circumvent the obstruction coming from the CIA and State.

~snip~

On Jan. 28, 2003, over the objections of the CIA and State, the famous 16 words about Niger’s uranium were used in President Bush’s State of the Union address justifying an attack on Iraq: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” Both the British and American governments had actually obtained the report from the Italians, who had asked that they not be identified as the source. The UN’s International Atomic Energy Agency also looked at the documents shortly after Bush spoke and pronounced them crude forgeries.

President Bush soon stopped referring to the Niger uranium, but Vice President Cheney continued to insist that Iraq was seeking nuclear weapons.

The question remains: who forged the documents? The available evidence suggests that two candidates had access and motive: SISMI and the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans.

~snip~

At this point, any American connection to the actual forgeries remains unsubstantiated, though the OSP at a minimum connived to circumvent established procedures to present the information directly to receptive policy makers in the White House. But if the OSP is more deeply involved, Michael Ledeen, who denies any connection with the Niger documents, would have been a logical intermediary in co-ordinating the falsification of the documents and their surfacing, as he was both a Pentagon contractor and was frequently in Italy. He could have easily been assisted by ex-CIA friends from Iran-Contra days, including a former Chief of Station from Rome, who, like Ledeen, was also a consultant for the Pentagon and the Iraqi National Congress.

It would have been extremely convenient for the administration, struggling to explain why Iraq was a threat, to be able to produce information from an unimpeachable “foreign intelligence source” to confirm the Iraqi worst-case.

The possible forgery of the information by Defense Department employees would explain the viciousness of the attack on Valerie Plame and her husband. Wilson, when he denounced the forgeries in the New York Times in July 2003, turned an issue in which there was little public interest into something much bigger. The investigation continues, but the campaign against this lone detractor suggests that the administration was concerned about something far weightier than his critical op-ed.




*****

OK now me talking again, we know that based on L.A.'s reporting that Silvio Berlusconi is connected to Ledeen based this:

****************************

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/American_who_consulted_fo...

It was Burba's editor at Panorama, Carlo Rossella, who allegedly told her to take the documents to the U.S. embassy, despite her own requests to travel to Niger to further investigate the claims.

It was also Rosella who intervened when Burba requested to contact the White House after hearing the infamous "16 words" in President Bush's 2003 State of the Union address, dissuading her from contacting U.S. officials.

Rosella, intelligence sources say, could have been acting on the orders of Panorama's owner, Silvio Berlusconi, Italy's equivalent of Rupert Murdoch. Berlusconi -- who also happens to be the current Prime Minister -пїЅ was a supporter of President Bush leading up to the war.

Berlusconi was not immediately available for comment.

********************************************

now in last section of article this statement jumps out at me.

He could have easily been assisted by ex-CIA friends from Iran-Contra days, including a former Chief of Station from Rome, who, like Ledeen, was also a consultant for the Pentagon and the Iraqi National Congress.

Who is this?? The ex-CIA Rome station chief. I have tried the almighty google and nothing I also tried wikipedia and whiffed.

I did reaquaint myself with the Iraqi National Congress via wikipedia and Chalabi and John Rendon(especially interesting with Panama and Gulf I) pop up on the Radar but nothing about a former Chief of Station from Rome.

So last question is this important or is this old news and I have just missed it in the mountain research?




robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan-23-06 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. Good timeline. But I think we should be looking at a FORMER station chief


Remember this article you posted:

At this point, any American connection to the actual forgeries remains unsubstantiated, though the OSP at a minimum connived to circumvent established procedures to present the information directly to receptive policy makers in the White House. But if the OSP is more deeply involved, Michael Ledeen, who denies any connection with the Niger documents, would have been a logical intermediary in co-ordinating the falsification of the documents and their surfacing, as he was both a Pentagon contractor and was frequently in Italy. He could have easily been assisted by ex-CIA friends from Iran-Contra days, including a former Chief of Station from Rome, who, like Ledeen, was also a consultant for the Pentagon and the Iraqi National Congress.

http://www.amconmag.com/2005/2005_11_07/feature.html

Who are some former CIA station chiefs in Rome? This was a comment on an earlier link I posted:

I agree that there are other factors beyond and above CIA functionaries, although they have certainly supervised a lot of nefarious activity over the years. In particular, in recent years it seems that the NSC (the presidential National Security Council) has handled a lot of the "blacker than black" operations, while the role of the DIA and its SAPs remains much more obscure than the more visible CIA.

For the record, a bit of Googling reveals the following names of CIA station chiefs in Rome (presumably better Googling would produce more)

# James Angleton (OSS chief WWII to early 50's??)
# Mark Wyatt (1948 election payoffs)
# William Colby (1953-1958)
# Thomas Karamessines (early 60's)
# William Harvey Feb.1963--??
# Howard "Rocky" Stone 197?-75
# Duane Clarridge 1980 Ustica!!!!
# Jeffrey W. Castelli Rome Station Chief up to summer 2003

The are obvious gaps, especially between Dewey Clarridge and Jeff Castelli, as well as the incumbent. Note also that the (in)famous Ted Shackley was second in command in Rome in the early 70's. It's striking to note what a springboard to success the Rome station has been.

As always, I make no claim to infallibility, and the above list could well be "off" on dates, etc. Corrections and additions are welcome.

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2005/7/20/2096/60605


I found the gap between Clarridge and Castelli, and a whole lot more:

Earlier this week here on Antiwar.com, Justin Raimondo, based on a secret source, broke the story and revealed that Patrick Fitzgerald is indeed following the question of the origin of the crudely forged documents and the identities of Michael Ledeen's former CIA friends. Fitzgerald, he says:

"'has finally been given a full copy of the Italian parliamentary oversight report on the forged Niger uranium document,' the former CIA officer tells me:

'Previous versions of the report were redacted and had all the names removed, though it was possible to guess who was involved. This version names Michael Ledeen as the conduit for the report and indicates that former CIA officers Duane Clarridge and Alan Wolf were the principal forgers. All three had business interests with Chalabi.'

Alan Wolf died about a year and a half ago of cancer. He served as chief of the CIA's Near East Division as well as the European Division, and was also CIA chief of station in Rome after Clarridge. According to my source, 'he and Clarridge and Ledeen were all very close and also close to Chalabi." The former CIA officer says Wolf "was Clarridge's Agency godfather. Significantly, both Clarridge and Wolf also spent considerable time in the Africa division, so they both had the Africa and Rome connection and both were close to Ledeen, closing the loop...'

My source tells me that 'Fitzgerald asked the Italians if he could share the report with Paul McNulty,' the prosecutor in the AIPAC case. There are plenty of links between the two investigations: they are, in a sense, the same investigation, since many of the same people are involved. McNulty is delving into a single aspect of the cabal's activities, while Fitzgerald seems to have broadened his probe to include not only the outing of Plame, but also the origin of the Niger uranium forgeries and other instances of classified information leakage via the vice president's office.

more...

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/comments.php?id=P2452_0_1_0


Alan Wolf and Duane Clarridge. I think this is where the truth about the Niger docs lies!




Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan-23-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Also, remember the rumors that Fitzgerald


was looking into these guys?

Thanks to a letter of February, 2004 in which Fitzgerald asked for and obtained expanded authority, the Special Prosecutor is now in possession of an Italian parliament investigation into the forged Niger documents alleging Iraq's interest in purchasing Niger uranium, sources said.

They said that Fitzgerald is looking into such individuals as former CIA agent, Duane Claridge, military consultant to the Iraqi National Congress, Gen. Wayne Downing, another military consultant for INC, and Francis Brooke, head of INC's Washingfton office in an effort to determine if they played any role in the forgeriese or their dissiemination. Also included in this group is long-time neoconservative Michael Ledeen, these federal sources said.


http://www2.boomantribune.com/story/2005/10/26/105036/8...

On a side note, not to be too tangential, and as you are probably aware, but others might want to know:

The INC (Iraqi National Congress )was essentially created by the Rendon Group, which is basically a propaganda firm hired by the US Government (and others):


Shortly after the September 11 attacks on Wall Street and Washington, the Pentagon gave Rendon a $100,000-a-month contract to track anti-U.S. foreign news reports, offer advice on media strategy and plant pro-U.S. stories in web, print and television. In 2002 when the Pentagon tried to create the Office of Strategic Influence to spread misleading stories in foreign countries, Rendon was the contractor they had in mind. President Bush ultimately disappeared the Office after a storm of protest from the media and the public at large, but in retrospect one wonders if the administration simply renamed the project.

~snip~

Not surprisingly, the INC (best known for its founder, Ahmed Chalabi, a now disgraced member of the Iraqi Governing Council) was created by the Rendon Group, according to a February 1998 report by Peter Jennings of ABC News which showed that the Rendon Group spent more than $23 million dollars under contract with the CIA. According to ABC, Rendon invented the name for the Iraqi National Congress. Indeed Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker magazine says the Rendon Group was "paid close to a hundred million dollars by the CIA" for its work with the INC.



http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11486


And Francis Brooke used to work for Rendon (they were the ones who staged the bringing down of the Saddam statue during the 'Shock and Awe' period early on in the war, if I remember correctly):


Francis Brooke worked in the mid-1990s on the Rendon Group's anti-Iraq campaign in London at a salary of $19,000 a month. He subsequently became the chief assistant in Washington to Ahmad Chalabi, head of the Iraqi National Congress.


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rendon_Group


Some of the INC's intelligence on Iraq's alleged arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and Saddam's supposed ties to militant Islamic groups are reportedly funneled directly to the office of Vice President Dick Cheney by Francis Brooke, the DC lobbyist for the group. Brooke will later acknowedge that the information provided by the INC was driven by an agenda. “I told them , as their campaign manager, ‘Go get me a terrorist and some WMD, because that's what the Bush administration is interested in.’ ” Brooke had previously worked for the Rendon Group, “a shadowy CIA-connected public-relations firm.”
People and organizations involved: Francis Brooke, Frank Gaffney, Richard ("Dick") Cheney, Douglas Feith...


http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=fr...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=163776

[Me.]

25. T'is A Thing Of Beauty

Stellar

[Just Me]

27. Also, I thought there was already definitive evidence they knew,...

,...BEFORE the SOTU and the Iraq war. Didn't the UN or someone spot the forgery and report immediately? Moreover, the testimony provided to Congress was that the niger thing was so questionable that Tenet specifically said to exclude it from the SOTU.

So, this newest info of additional evidence that they got even MORE info that the niger docs were fake seems so, superfluous, to me.

[robertpaulsen]

31. They DEFINITELY knew before the start of the war.

I believe Mohammed El-Baradei announced they were bogus on March 7. I'm not sure if anyone had proven they were forgeries before the SOTU, but you are right about Tenet.

And the OSP was not just cherry-picking intelligence, they were making shit up! Ledeen's tied with so many people at OSP, it just reeks.

[Me.]

36. Also

Intelligence had real doubts about them and told the WH so. And the Brits knew they were bogus, as did the French who flat out told us so.

[Just Me]

48. What about the Niger Embassy? They must have known immediately,...

,...that the docs were forged. Surely, they would have informed the WH ON THE SPOT!!! :shrug:

(I gotta' get some more coffee)

[stop the bleeding]

41. RP I can not wait to get my work out of the way so that I can

re-absorb all of our research contained within this phenomenal post here. Will be back later on Friday to comment once all of my office work is done.

Tis this season for excitement.

Cheers!!

[stop the bleeding]

49. the antiwar article that you highlighted is a trove of information

I am gonna have to go back a read that one a little slower with a cold beer to really let all of the parts settle in.

these guys are way ahead of the game (Onward to Doug Feith's office!) this was the last sentence of the article that was posted Oct, 2005

this part jumped out at me again:

Former CIA and DIA covert operative Philip Giraldi, when I interviewed him on my radio show last July 26th said the documents were forged by "a couple of former CIA officers who are familiar with that part of the world who are associated with a certain well-known neoconservative who has close connections with Italy."

When I said that must be Ledeen, he confirmed it, and added that the ex-CIA officers, "also had some equity interests, shall we say, with the operation. A lot of these people are in consulting positions, and they get various, shall we say, emoluments in overseas accounts, and that kind of thing."


What does this mean?

I know that based on our research that Sheldon Lady has/had property outside of Turino, Italy(sorry if spelled wrong).

Is this what Giraldi is talking about or is much much more than that? Sounds like ALOT more than Lady's property....

Can not wait to see what your take is

[robertpaulsen]

17. Last 4 paragraphs give the best indication of where Fitz is heading.

From the OP:

One possibility examined by investigators is that Libby was attempting to cover for Cheney because of the political or legal fallout that might occur if it was determined that the vice president had been involved in the effort to discredit Wilson.

Stephen Gillers, a law professor at New York University, said, "The prosecutor's implicit inference before the jury may well likely be that Libby lied to protect the vice president. Even in a plain vanilla case, a prosecutor always wants to be able to demonstrate a motive."

That Cheney was one of the first people to tell Libby about Plame, and that Libby had written in his notes that Cheney had heard the information from the CIA director, Gillers said, might make it more difficult for Libby to mount a credible defense of a faulty memory. "From a prosecutor's point of view, and perhaps a jury's as well, the conversation is the more dramatic and the more memorable because the conversation was with the vice president" and because the CIA director's name also came up, Gillers said.

The disclosure that Cheney and Libby were told of a CIA assessment that the agency considered the Niger allegations to be untrue, and that Tenet requested the assessment as a result of the personal interest of Cheney and Libby, would "demonstrate even further that Niger was a central issue for Libby," said Gillers, and would "make it even harder, although not impossible, to claim a faulty memory."


If this is correct, Cheney will need to check his ticker again very soon!

[Tin Man]

18. I just knew Santa didn't forget us - Fitzmas is coming! Fitzmas is coming!

:toast:

[Me.]

19. Good Read On That RP

When I saw your name, before I read your post, I was sure you were going to respond to the question of who forged the Niger documents, and the popular opinion (not without cause and reason) that neocon Ledeen had at least a hand in it.

[robertpaulsen]

23. Thanks for the hint, Me.

Post 22 shows that Ledeen, Clarridge, Wolf, Downing and Brooke are the most likely suspects. Most importantly, Fitz knows this!

[Catrina]

26. I have read many times that Ledeen is a number one suspect. I agree

Fitzgerald does know this ~ but how can he prove it, and it's not part of his assignment, is it? Unless it ties in with the outing of Valerie Plame. I know there are ties from one scandal to another, but I'm not sure that Fitzgerald could tie in the Ledeen/Forged Documents case to the Valerie Plame case.

The other scandal that is intertwined with all of this is the Pentagon Spy case. Interesting how the media is ignoring it. Larry Franklin was in Italy along with Ledeen when the Forged Documents surfaced. I read today that the Pentagon Spy prosecutors are asking for reporters' notes regarding reports on the AIPAC stories that appeared in the press. I think that's what the article said.

Feith too, is under investigation for his role in the false information that led to the war. Larry Franklin and Feith worked closely in the now defunct OSP. I think Larry Franklin may be talking to try to reduce his sentence.

One day all the dots between all these scandals will be connected. It's already beginning to happen.

[H2O Man]

30. It may be

that the forgeries are more likely to become part of the neocon/AIPAC spy scandal. Back in the summer of 2004, on the infamous "Plame threads," DUers connected the Plame, the neocon/AIPAC, and the forgery scandals like three leaves on a clover. I believe that the two Irishmen prosecuting the Plame and the neocon/AIPAC cases are very much aware of each other's efforts.

[Just Me]

32. I would very much like to believe that's true.

"Three leaves on a clover". I'll remember that one.

[H2O Man]

33. You can believe it.

In fact, "You must believe me, because madmen always tell the truth." -- Che Guevara, 5-26-64 letter to Dr. Duncunge.

[Just Me]

34. *grin*

:7

[Me.]

37. Confirmation

That someone is, but unlike Hadley, I am not naming names.

[Catrina]

38. Yes, I think you are right ..... especially when you think that

the Pentagon Spies, or at least Larry Franklin, was connected to Feith's OSP where the fabricated 'intelligence' came from and that we know now, from the Pentagon Spy case, that a plot to plant forged documents in Iran showing they were working towards nuclear weapons, was foiled. I'm not sure who foiled it. I got the impression it was the FBI. But maybe the FBI received some tips from Brewster Jennings who also may have foiled the planting of WMDs in Iraq.

The MO for Iran, is almost identical as it was for Iraq ~ so I think it was the same people, they just got caught this time. I hope they are stopped.

I also agree that both prosecutors are working together, sharing imformation. What a tangled web it is ~

[samhsarah]

28. No shit. eom

[Just Me]

35. Geez! I forgot to nominate.

:silly:

[Wilms]

39. .

[stop the bleeding]

40. Me - thanks for posting this - I did not realize that you had this out

before my other thread on this. Oh well no harm done on creating awareness. Peace and we are getting closer. I have to comment on RP's post#22 on this thread seems like a lot of our research is in that post.

Thanks again - you rock the house!!!!!

K&R

[Me.]

42. The More These Matters Stay Front & Center

the better. The Plame situation & AIPAC etc., seems to fade because there is no front burner news, so the more threads the better. People are obviously interested as both threads did rather well.

[stop the bleeding]

46. Agreed and

:kick: :dem:

[dogday]

43. I have a different take on this story

They didn't expose Plame to get back at Wilson, they were wanting to out Plame all along because Plame and Associates were the ones watching Iraq for WMD's and responsible for keeping them out of Iraq.

My take is that they wanted her out because that would of outed the whole operation and all their contacts, leaving them free to try to smuggle some WMD's of their own into Iraq. That would redeem them and anything else anyone was questioning.

It has been just the opposite. The asked Joe Wilson to go, once they formulated the plan of outing Plame and Associates. Joe Wilson is actually the means to an end, they knew the Docs were fake, knew it when they sent Joe, but had to set the storyline to use Joe to get to Valerie, not the other way around...

[stop the bleeding]

44. Ding, ding, ding you are onto the right track take a look at these links

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2023349

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2035128

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=66773

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=60048

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x66847


- there are parts of these threads that criss cross each other many times over but when people take the time to read through them they find a cornucopia of information.


on this thread that we are discussing - post #22 by RP has alot of our research invovled.

Kick it!:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Just Me]

47. That's always what I surmised: they wanted to out the operation.

Yep.

[Bushladen]

51. Yellow Cake

I am happy to see that someone agrees with me on the 9/11 attacks DeminDistress. I felt Bushco was behind it all the way. Bin laden is just a patsy for Bush, and now he's back threating us again. If all goes well with the illegal wiretapping and the lobbyist I really believe we are going to get attacked again, only using nukes instead of planes. Bush and Cheney don't give a rats ass about us and will do ANYTHING to cause a distraction to delay the investigation. My guess is that it will be in the west coast and it won't be a real big explosion, but just enough to give Bush more power because we have never been attacked by nukes before and we need a whole set of different rules to give the Village Idiot more powers. This administration will kill anyone and expose anyone to get what they want.

[Me.]

52. The Problem For Them

Is that if there is another terrorist attack, they have nothing. The only poll they are still doing well in, is terrorism. Another attack would belie their claim about keeping us safe. Those uneasy questions of, after five years, where is Bin Laden and Zawahiri, and why haven't they been caught, pop up again.

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