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fighttotheend Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 10:30 PM
Original message
Spread the Word PROTECT SEALS from heartless killers
www.protectseals.org

BOYCOTT CANADIAN SEAFOOD NOW!!!
Consider what’s happened since last year’s hunt:

The number of restaurants and seafood businesses who have pledged to limit or eliminate their purchases of Canadian seafood has grown to more than 400. They are joined by more than 140,000 individuals.

The value of Canadian snow crab exports to the United States has plummeted by more than $160 million -- nearly ten times the value of the seal hunt and a 34% drop since the seafood boycott began.

Since the boycott was announced, some of Canada's largest fishing companies have released financial reports revealing drops in profits. Fisheries Products International, Newfoundland's largest fishing company, is losing so much money that it is considering selling off most of its fishing rights.

In Europe, where almost all Canadian seal skins are shipped for processing and resale, several nations are taking steps to ban those shipments. At the forefront is Belgium, which has already banned the import of all seal products.

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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. So it's already started again this year. I was dreading hearing when
it would startup again. I cannot even read your note because I saw it last year and it sickens me. Anarchist for Animal Groups throw pies in the faces of those that wear fur (J-Lo, Diddy, but they never got pie in the face). Damn, I wish Coulter would dare to put some on. LOL I forgot, she gets pies in the face for showing up.

I hate the innocent being abused. Innocent animals to smuggle drugs. Those poor puppies are gutted, stuffed with the drugs, and then gutted again and probably left to die. They showed a puppy mill tonight on the news that sold their dogs to these dealers to use. Of course, they use infants as well. Sick F****.

Every state has a law for animal cruelty, most of them misdemeanors. I think any cruelty to animals should be a felony. I need to check on VA.

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fighttotheend Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. federal offense, government preaches about morals being kind to animals
should be part of your morals aswell, living and breathing like all of us
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great ...
But the seals will mean nothing and we won't be able to protect them at all until we can stop the heartless Fascists that are transforming our political terrain like terminators of justice and liberty.

Once the endangered species of compassionate, humanitarian, liberal beings is removed from the political spectrum, then no other species will find respite, respect, or continuation if any profit is involved.

The number ONE endangered species are the people who would protect the land and the life of the Planet. The Right-wing is not going to spare anything on their way to the Armageddon they desire and espouse in order to bring on the phony interpretation of Rapture they believe in and encourage for the World and its current politics and agendas.

Fundamentalism is taking over, and it has been for thirty-years. It is clear to see that, not only do they have a disproportionate, dominant voice, they are hell-bent on leaving NOTHING in the wake of their misbegotten, manipulated ideologies .. all true religion and spirituality aside.

First things first?
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is the same a fishing to them. And this year - seems the environment
is drowning baby seals all over the place. Many seals couldn't find ice flows and went to the shores of islands. Then big storms hit. Washed the babies away.



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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Where is the new Cleveland Amory? He is the one who stopped the
slaughter over 25 yrs ago and it "held" for a long time but now the great man is gone and no one else (and he was an old man when he did it) has the courage to go up in a little boat and confront the "hunter"/murderers.
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm from Newfoundland
And anyone who thinks the capt of the Cleveland Amory is a hero is grossly misinformed.

The seal hunt is a very necessary and well-maintained annual event. Without the hunt, the stocks of fish around Newfoundland would be completely depleted, devastating even further an already hurting economy and culture. I understand those who disagree with hunting in general, but for those who do not and depend on it to live, it is vital.
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It is so cruel the way they kill them and only do it for their skins. Do
they eat any part of the seals, or do they just throw away the carcasses. Anyone hunting for food to feed their family, it's understandable. However, just for the skins, and the bloody way they go about it. Of course, what we do to chickens, cows, calfs, sheep, pigs, etc., is just as bad . . . just not as public. The slaughter of cats and dogs.

I grew up in the country and lived on farm with chickens, cows, pigs (the outhouse was beside the pig pen). We still have people in this area that still only have outhouses, don't have running water to their homes nor electricity. My family always put out a big garden then we were made to help out with the unbelievable amount of canning in the fall. We had a dug out space under my grandmother's house and would store as many potatoes as we could and would have them all Winter. We did that with tomatoes as well; however, the tomatoes didn't do as well as the potatoes.

When I was about 3 or 4, I was at my grandmothers and heard loud squealing then booms. I was in another yard playing but had to go see what it was. When I came around the corner of the house and saw what was happening, I just started screaming and running to my mother (who then proceeded to spank me for going out of our yard).

I don't really remember a lot about it though, but they were slaughtering pigs and by the time I got there, they had already shot it in the head, slit its throat, and they had hung them up upside down to bleed them out, and they were gutting them. Also, I had seen my grandmother kill chickens for supper and that wasn't a very pleasant thing to see.

In the Fall my dad and his brothers would go hunting and kill rabbits, squirrels, turkeys, deers, groundhogs, possums, etc. In the Summer always a lot of fishing and craw-fish.

I have never been able to eat meat since I was a child. It just turns my stomach to think about it. It all seems cruel to me. However, I'm not political about being a vegetarian to others who eat meat. I don't feel I have the right to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't eat according to my opinion.



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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. There is nothing understandable about killing animals for food.
It is cruel and unnatural.

The world abounds with other food sources, most of which are far healthier than animal products.

I can understand if someone is stranded in the forest and starving and eats meat, but anyone living in a civilized environment has ethical options.
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. There is nothing unethical about eating meat n/t
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Yes there is. >>>
I don't like to get into this because I am not in favor of preaching about other people's dietary habits, but making a blanket statement like this is just asking for a speech...

In short form, the animals that we (and I use this term loosely as I do not fall into this category) consume are living things that we exploit, needlessly, for our own pleasure.

Many of them (including cows, pigs and chickens) have hierarchical social orders, familial instincts, and levels of intelligence that would baffle most people if they knew.

They are kept in cages, separated from their families/children, mutilated and tortured, and finally slaughtered so you can eat a Big Mac.

It's an atrocity of unbelievable proportions.

Also, in a different vein, as long as we maintain the concept of our superiority over animals, we will continue to destroy our world ecosystems and there will never be a chance for peace among the human population of the world.

I say this because as long as we see animals as "just animals" and not living, breathing, social beings, there will always be people in the world who will treat other human beings "like animals."

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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. A little slippery, that slope
Animals ARE just animals. As a gu who's studied animal biology and psychology, as well as behavioural pharmacology in animals, I long ago made the logical determination that the ethics of animal consumption are not suspect.

Hierarchical social orders and familial instincts only accrue in populations left to those devices. Animals raised for consumption are no more likely to follow those trends than a dog you adopted as a pup and raised in your home. Levels of intelligence, now, that's a more compelling argument. However, Pavlovian conditioning is not intelligence, it is conditioning. Animals, especially livestock and other such populations, do not display any signs of adaptive or superior thinking. They are not self-aware. They are not sentient. Many forms of animal life do not possess the brain structure to process pain into perceptual signals.

Now of course I'll never change your mind, and you'll never change mine, but I do like to debate these issues with someone from time to time. Keeps both sides on their toes.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Are you serious?????????????
Okay, your slope is slipper as well. If animals raised in captivity are okay to torture and eat, where is the line?

Humans are just animals.
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. No, we're not just animals
Animals are neither sentient nor self-aware. This "small" difference is why civilizations exist, and we're not still out in the trees.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. You can't possibly be serious...
Animals are not self-aware? How do you figure?

(Grr, I really don't want to be arguing about this, lol.)
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Sorry :)
I'm really a nice guy, honestly!

But animals are not self-aware, no. They have instincts, and basic needs, but otherwise they are not thinking creatures. They do not have the ability to perceive their existence outside of must eat, must sleep, must hide, must protect offspring.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. I'm sure you are a nice guy, lol :) but...
"I'm really a nice guy, honestly!

But animals are not self-aware, no. They have instincts, and basic needs, but otherwise they are not thinking creatures. They do not have the ability to perceive their existence outside of must eat, must sleep, must hide, must protect offspring."

There are certainly examples in nature of animals acting contrary to what you have described, but that is beside the point.

What is your stand on the mentally retarded among the human population? If there are humans who are mentally incapable of higher thought, should we feel free to do to them what we do to animals?

Animals live and breathe and bleed and die and mate--they are alive, and we take that away from them without compunction. I will never support that.

(BTW, I have no personal animosity toward you, lol--my own husband is just starting to consider any of this.)
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. As long as we're clear :P
Certainly, there are instances of animals acting altruistically in nature, and studies tend to explain that in terms of genetic survival.

The mentally handicapped, of course, I would never recommend treating like animals. You can call me a hypocrite, I suppose, but one must draw a line in your ideology somewhere. The very same argument you used to attack the position of animals as just animals is the one I'd use to support it. There are humans, then there is everything else. The product of two sentient people, even if that child is mentally handicapped, is still a person with the expectations of natural rights afforded them. Ultimately, we may find the cure for these genetic disorders, but we will never be able to make an animal sentient. If it was possible, they'd no longer be animals. Maybe one of those half-man, half-animal hybrids Bush was on about! :P
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Hypocrite! (LOL I couldn't help it ;) ) n/t
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Eating meat is a sacred tradition
in many cultures.

Industrial harvesting and manipulative trapping and brutal slaughter is the issue.

If you live in a northern climate you will eat meat if you wish to live in balance with nature.
Of course now we have energy wasteful means of transporting mass produced processed food and the rituals to acknowledge the sacredness of all life are a distant memory.

Of course the Western ways of industrial slaughter are abhorrent and indefensible.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Katherine
you should visit the Veg, Vegan and Animal Rights Group. Go to the "lobby", click on "DU Groups" then "Politics, Issues and Media" then the VVand AR Group, also known as the Tofu Ghetto. And welcome!

:hi:
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. I didn't even know there was one--thanks for the info! :) n/t
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
51. Okay, we live in a civilized environment (kind of) . . .
and the cold cases are full of meat products.

I have to buy them for my husband; however, not me. I won't even cook his meat but he understands how I feel about it. The smell sickens me. He has stopped hunting since we got married 15 years ago. I didn't tell him he couldn't go hunting

I saw an article (I hope I saved it), regarding eating meat and why man was not designed to eat meat. A lot of people will say about having the carnivores and that is proof; however, this study showed that carnivores back teeth were very different from ours.

I hope I can find it. If I can, I'll post it.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. you have a very specific interest in that, which is understandable,
of course, but.....

WRONG

extend your logic to the world as a whole, and you might see what I'm getting at

have you ever met Watson?

he's certainly a zealot

many considered Ghandi a zealot

MLK, etc.; the list goes on

I'm not going to change your mind, but your comments can't go out there unremarked-upon
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Wrong to you, maybe...
...but just because you think it's wrong to hunt animals doesn't make it so.

I am unwilling to extend the logic that Watson is in any way comparable to Gandhi or Dr. King. Seals are not people, despite what you may be told or think yourself. I would kill a million seals if it meant saving one human life. The seal population in Newfoundland explodes every year, they reproduce like rabbits. Without this vital hunt, like I said, our economy and people would be devastated.

I certainly appreciate the position you take, but I don't think you'll ever get the Seal Hunt to stop, nor do I hope it does.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm with you on this
Granted, I'm an ignant, midwestern American, but I have heard about how and why they do the seal hunts, and I support them. I'm kind of surprised that no one has thought about the fact the people live in Canada, as well as seals, and that they depend on the sea for their livlihood.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. whatever....for those who don't have a, uh, seal in this hunt, and
aren't given to ludicrous statements like a million seals aren't worth the life of one human, just go to these and make up your own minds

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=harp+seal+hunt++justifiable++&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?q=harp+seal+hunt+unjustifiable+economically&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&start=20&sa=N
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. I suppose I am just 'emotional' but anyone who clubs a baby
anything with a club is an asshole. That is how I see it. No one will ever change my mind. I live in Alaska by the way and know about assholes hunting things. We aerial shoot wolves up here, another 'brave' hunter trick.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. That is a crock of shit
The problem isn't an excess of seals (they have predators and nature uses them to keep thier numbers in line without human intervention) the problem is that the area is overfished and rather than deal with that reality it's easier to blame the seals.

The Canadian government spends more money subsidizing the seal slaughter than it brings in the economy. Both humans and seals would be better off if they spent that money creating more sustainable employment or even on direct assistance to the impacted families.
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Respectfully, bullshit
We have many years of studies which show that the seal population would become unmanageable if left as is. The prey numbers far, far exceed the numbers their natural predators can maintain. I am well aware the area was overfished. I was 12, I believe, when they declared a moratorium on the fishery and thousands of people ended up out of work and/or destitute. Allowing the seal population to go unchecked would destroy the stocks we have left, and reverse over 10 years of careful planning to replenish the fish in the sea.

The hunt does provide sustainable employment. And speaking as a Newfoundlander, the last thing this province needs is the government throwing us more welfare money to eke out a living. Welfare money for people who would be bankrupted by stopping the seal hunt doesn't seem to me to be a way of making them better off.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. feel free to make all the undocumented assertions you like
there are many many links from the google sites I put up previously that contradict what you say

nice try, though
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Okay...
So it's not alright to quote a right-wing source when discussing politics, but it's fine and dandy to reference IFAW and other activist groups when discussing the seal hunt.

Makes sense to me.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. too bad you didn't bother to read my google links
why don't you go up there and see what they say before you embarrass yourself again

hint: they provide links to both sides of the story, and I advise people to make up their own minds

you're not doing your argument any favors

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ShadesOfGrey Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Oh yes....

Man and his greed are here to save the day! NOT!!!

We've ALL had to learn to adapt our skills to meet the current needs of society. Why is this group special?
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Any of these studies from an entity not somehow involved in
the clubbing and killing of seals?

The slaughter is based in human greed. Due to the lack of humane slaughter, it can't be defended.

See you on the floes.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
72. Yeah...I didn't think so.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Biospheres don't work that way
Seals have predators, who eat them when thier population is excessive. They have prey whose numbers limit thier own. Thier numbers (as of the last reliable count, which was in the late 90's) were nowhere near thier historical highs. The problem isn't the seals.

Additionally the seals don't eat much cod (it makes up about 3% of thier diets,) but they do eat fish that eat juvenile cod, so killing them is acually not a boon to the cod stocks or the fishermen who rely on them.

Operating a govornment sponsored make-work program for two months out of the year at a loss and at great cost to the local enviornment is not sustainable, healthy or smart.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. As though the fish stocks haven't been depleted by humans?
Pretty disingenuous. That is so lame, why haven't the seals died back if they eat all of the fish?

Life takes life out of necessity. The hides of seals were once a necessity for clothing but such is no longer the case. Killing for the luxury trade is obscene.

Is not the government of Canada compensating fishermen in some way for their self inflicted reduction of fish stocks? How much money does a seal clubber make? Surely that could be compensated also.

We no longer slaughter birds for their plumes. No doubt that affected the "culture" of those hunters. If that's the only way that a person can define themselves too damn bad.
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CanCon Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. They sure have..
Local overfishing, along with the outrageous illegal fishing done by European boats, depleted the cod stocks to desperate levels.

The seals don't die back because they're managed by the hunt. I assure you, if left alone, the seal population would explode and then die over the next several years. Population management is done in many balanced ecosystems. The government IS compensating fishermen, but a life of welfare is not much of a life. Careful restocking of the seas, and management of the predator-prey populations, is what will get these people back on their feet, not living on the dole.

It's easy to be glib and dismiss hunting as a viable means of existence, until you actually live somewhere where hundreds of thousands of lives depend on it. Personal taste does not alter fact. I find many practices morally abhorrent, but I understand why they exist.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
56. Hundreds of thousands?
I find that hard to believe. That would entail 10's of thousands of seal hunters.

Surely some other means of income might be found, though it may entail investment and adjustment. In any case, it seems that you have too many people trying to make a living on the sea. This is a problem today where ever there is a coastline. It is a good life but there are too many people doing it, a simple example of the tragedy of the commons. Fishing fleets worldwide need to be reduced, and human population needs to be controlled.

So, you kill seals because you want more of their food? That's a spiral into oblivion. Eventually you'll have neither fish nor seals. Those seals existed eons without management.

By managing the predator prey relationship do you mean shooting polar bears in order to lessen their take of seals? I would find that just as bad as shooting wolves in Alaska so that there are more moose for well heeled hunters. In both cases killing for a luxury, not a necessity.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. The reason the stocks of fish around Newfoundland are depleted
Isn't the seals friend, it is because they have been overfished by the fleets of all nations. Stop the overfishing and you wouldn't have to worry about the seals' take. And frankly, I don't see how stopping a seal hunt could "hurt" a culture. Change it yes, but not harm it. And those who depend on seal hunting to live can be retrained, and re-employed elsewhere in the economy.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
63. Wow...here I thought people were embarassed to admit they thought...
things like the brutal slaughter of seals was a "very necessary and well-maintained" event.

Guess I was wrong. And...*click* You're on ignore!
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-04-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #63
79. kick
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. thanks! crazy as he is, long live Paul Watson, who started all this
He was in DC about 20 years ago, his ship being worked in Alexandria. People got to go down and take a tour, and I went, got to know him a little, and had a small fundraiser for him at my house

he's quite a character, but more importantly, quite a man

http://www.seashepherd.org/
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Club sandwiches, not seals! nt
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sign the Humane Society's petition - link here
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ShadesOfGrey Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thank you so much for the link...

I signed it AGAIN!!!!

When will this stop? I'm starting to think - NEVER!

Just when we quit paying attention to it, it arises from the dust! GRRRR...:grr: :grr:
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. If you want to protect animals, stop eating them! >>>
I'm sorry, but anyone who consumes animal products should not call for animal rights activism. Therefore, don't simply boycott seafood from Canada--boycoot the entire meat/dairy industry. And using animals in entertainment. And in medical and military testing.

It's a paradox.

If you are willing to slaughter and eat them, why the f* bother saving any of them in the first place?

Be consistent.

Committed vegan,
K. Brengle
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Quite a few of us agree wholeheartedly
Welcome to DU! :hi:
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Thanks LeftyMom :) Nice to meet you :) n/t
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. for many that journey is slower than you or I would like but
People should be encouraged in any move towards kindness. I'm pretty sure that's what the guy in your avatar would tell you too. Sometimes the journey is slow, many never become vegans but if they help stop the seal slaughter or demand better conditions for chickens or decide to become vegetarian for even one day out of the week, it all helps.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I forgot to add WELCOME, nice to have a new vegan around :-)
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. hi and thanks :) n/t
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I agree that every little step makes a difference...>
It's just something that is very close to my own heart and I am still shocked sometimes to realize that not everyone understands...

Nice to meet you, btw :)
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. Nice to meet you too and I TOTALLY understand the frustration
This must be how the abolitionists felt in the 1700's. I do believe the day will come when we as a species look back on all this ugly wanton destruction of animal life and our planet and shake their heads at the barbarism that was.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Let's hope so... n/t
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. Agreed!!
The seal hunt is an obvious example of animal abuse, but there are others. They all need to be stopped to make the world a better place.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Amen! n/t
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jeannicot Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
55. A roast duck for dinner
in honor of your post.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. I don't get ****** like you
at all

tell us what you hold dear, so we can make vicious fun of it, OK?
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Amen Gabi!
I'm not sure which explative that was, but I still appreciated it.

(And I got your PM :) thanks :) )
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. yr wlcm
starts with an "a"
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jeannicot Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. If you can't stand the heat...
I don't beat up your head with my beliefs, do I?
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. How is somebody posting thier opinion doing you any harm?
If you disagree, do it with respect. Posting something that fucking rude* for your first post is astonishingly poor nettiquite and bad manners generally.

*Those of us who are vegan for ethical reasons take that decision seriously and are emotionally invested in it. What you posted was the equivalent of responding to some commited Catholic's post about finding God in thier relationship with the Church with "That's nice, I'm gonna go pee in the holy water now." It's that stupid and rude.
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jeannicot Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Heh.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Nope, I just eat lots of food I like
I don't even take a supplement regularly (I forget too much) and I'm the healthiest I've ever been. LeftyKid's vegan from infancy and he's huge, smart and healthy too. :)

If you have a veg nutrition question you should ask flvegan, he's better at answering those things than I am.
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jeannicot Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. how original
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. buh bye, EC
you aren't even any good
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. so what, exactly are YOUR beliefs? give me a chance to beat up
on them

please

you picked a strange topic with which to insert yourself into this forum

and I CAN take the heat, baby; just commenting on a very ignorant, unfunny post
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
48. Where'd you get your snow crab export figures?...
the Paris Business Review?

Sid
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. you're a funny guy, Sid
Edited on Fri Feb-03-06 05:23 PM by Gabi Hayes
you'll LYAO at this, no doubt



advocatesforanimals.org.uk/campaigns/wild/seals/images/seals07.jpg

to see the picture, place an "http://www." in front of the rest of the link

warning on picture
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KFC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
59. The best compromise would be to shoot them not club them
I think we can all get on board with that.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. They shoot them too
from ships, at distance. Often they're wounded and slip off the floes into the ocean where they die. We don't even know what the numbers of seals who are shot and whose bodies aren't recovered and exploited, but it's apparently a significant number enough that the decay causes sufficient bacterial action to result in decreased oxygen levels and (warning: bone-stupid irony ahead) fish kills.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
73. A study by vets shows up to 42% are skinned while still conscious
The seal "hunt" cannot be defended. Not by anyone with any form of a conscience.

http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/dimages/custom/2_Publications/Seals/seals_vet_report_review.pdf
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
74. Kick for the seals.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
75. More information
Who Kills Seals and Why?
Sealing is an off-season activity conducted by fishermen from Canada's East Coast. They make, on average, a small fraction of their annual incomes from sealing—and the rest from commercial fisheries. Even in Newfoundland, where 90% of sealers live, there are only 4,000 fishermen who actively participate in the seal hunt each year.

How Are the Seals Killed?
The Canadian Marine Mammal Regulations, which govern the hunt, stipulate sealers may kill seals with wooden clubs, hakapiks (large ice-pick-like clubs) and guns. In the Gulf of St. Lawrence, clubs and hakapiks are the killing implement of choice, and in the Front, guns are more widely used.

It is important to note that each killing method is demonstrably cruel. Because sealers shoot at seals from moving boats, the pups are often only wounded. The main sealskin processing plant in Canada deducts $2 from the price they pay for the skins for each bullet hole they find—therefore sealers are loath to shoot seals more than once. As a result, wounded seals are left to suffer in agony—many slip beneath the surface of the water where they die slowly and are never recovered.

Is the Seal Hunt Cruel?
Yes. In 2001, a report by an independent team of veterinarians who studied the hunt concluded that governmental regulations regarding humane killing were neither being respected nor enforced, and that the seal hunt failed to comply with Canada's basic animal welfare regulations. Shockingly, the veterinarians found that in 42% of the cases they studied, the seals had likely been skinned alive while conscious.

Parliamentarians, journalists, and scientists who observe Canada's commercial seal hunt each year continue to report unacceptable levels of cruelty, including sealers dragging conscious seals across the ice floes with boat hooks, shooting seals and leaving them to suffer in agony, stockpiling dead and dying animals, and even skinning seals alive.

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/facts_about_the_canadian_seal_hunt.html
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Oh, SNAP!!! A literal beatdown of those supporting the "hunt"
In case anyone missed it before...it's not a "hunt" but rather the inhumane clubbing and skinning alive of a great number of animals.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. *ahem*
the inhumane clubbing and skinning alive of a great number of animals *so selfish assholes can wear thier skins*

Let's not let people forget why this shit continues. It's not a life and death thing or even a human comfort thing, pure vanity keeps the suffering going. :(
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
78. One last kick.
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