You suck, your values suck, you're evil and bad - vote for me!

[The Straight Story]

oh and your country sucks, is nothing but an evil mass of crap, and while I might be able to spew forth one or two good things in a sentence I would rather talk about all the bad things.

Positive reinforcement? Just for kids. Celebrate the good and wonderful things? Screw that. Might make ya look good, and that is certainly not the desire.

We are the only ones who need to improve and get better, well not really but we must look worse than all the other peoples/countries/religions - we need you to feel the same way. Oh and your traditions suck, are all lies and fairy tales, and they need to be in the closet.

So vote for the party that cares and explains so well how you all suck.

---- If you think I am being an ass about all this, well this is the kind of thing I hear all the time from people that voted for bush even though they don't like him all that well (and less so now - from my dad to coworkers to friends here in Ohio). And what do we so often seem to hear here on du? That america and americans just plain suck for the most part, and...well see all the above.

I'm an American. We ain't perfect, done some shitty things in the past, will do more in the future I am sure. Of course the same could be said about pretty much any country. Problem seems to be in the few with power here and elsewhere.

When people seem to talk better about terrorists and other countries than they do here it makes me wonder. Sure cuba has nice things about it, but then it is a ton smaller and easier to manage. China - well, I am sure there is plenty of good people would say about them. Mid-east countries, all pretty decent except that little israel place it appears. And the list could go on and on.

We cannot change the past, we can the future though. And to get enough power to do it we need the good people of this country behind us. We need to win their hearts and souls. Telling them they are fat, can't smoke, suck in general, are nazi like, and so on does not seem to be the best method, IMHO, of doing so.

And NO I do not mind discussing the problems at hand and pointing out the stuff that is wrong and needs fixing. It's the only way we will get improvements made. But I just don't think the way to do it is bashing people we are asking to vote for us. Most here would vote (I am guessing) for whomever got the dem nod - so we don't need to convince ourselves to vote for dems.

Maybe if we talk more about the great way things were and could be we might get more votes. Show them how we can help the american dream to be real again, what it was, and how we care about them as people. Go ahead and bash the rethugs for their crappy job, we employ em we should bitch (and about some dems as well, we hired them and they should work for us more than themselves).

We are a great country of 300 million. Some bad, most good. Made some big mistakes, did some great things. We love and want to protect the workers - not because we want their vote, because we are them as well and we love one another. We want to protect the poor, we want all to have health care, we want those who need heat in the winter to have it - all because we love our fellow americans and people in general. While the assholes in power now want to take care of the few percent of americans it is us who want to take care of most americans. I don't care if they are a rethug - they are human as well and I want their lives to be better - and once they see who truly cares for them and who makes their life better they will convert (ie see the light).

Our party has done some great things - and some not so great. Which do we celebrate and put forth the most? The good (at least from what I have seen). To me that is how I see our land - great and sucky things. By focusing on the good a little more than perhaps we can make people see that good is what we all want - and that we don't just see people as idiots, red staters, red necks, southern hill billys, and so on. We are a great people who has done great things, and maybe sometimes we should see ourselves as something more than a monster. Jekyl and Hyde we may be, but if we lose sight of the Jekyl we may become nothing more than a hyde and all that we once held dear will disappear into a self loathing.

Rant over, flame suit on. This message was not aimed at anyone in particular. It will self destruct in 5 seconds.

[BamaLefty]

1. Thought provoking

And yes, you did make some points that I agree with. Pretty good post IMO.

[Bluzmann57]

2. Yes

I do suck. My values suck. I am evil. I am bad. I like southern rock, I like Ed Schultz, I like shooting guns, I like pickups. I don't care. Support your local micro brewery and drink more pale ale. Thank you for your attention. Carry on. Oh and two more things, Go Hawkeyes on Jan. 2 and vote Democrat in '06.

[The Straight Story]

5. Go bucks

And my next car will be a pickup. I used to work in the gun reloading industry as well, though I don't own a gun right this second. Next time at a micro-brewery ask them half glass of their best beer and the other half as rum. Really smooths out the beer.

[Al-CIAda]

7. hawkeyes are GATORBAIT.

Chomp.

[bbinacan]

3. No need for the flame suit because

you made many good points.

[Burma Jones]

4. I agree with you

You can't expect to be elected by people you appear to despise......

[CarbonDate]

6. I don't see that coming from our side.

I see it coming from theirs. Anything you see on DU in that regard is simply a response to that. But elected Democrats have been bending over backwards to accomodate the "values" of the religious right. We see how well that's been working.

The right, on the other hand, has thrived by selling the public hatred of us.

[Redneck Socialist]

8. No flames, I pretty much agree

I think much of the alleged "anti-american" stuff that come from us on the left is a response to the fantasy that the right paints. America the great, defender of freedoms and what not that completely ignores our complicity in a multitude of crimes both here and abroad. No one likes being told they such and people who's identity is strongly tied up in that image of america the great are going to respond to the "morning in America" type rhetoric.

The key point, as I see it is here: "...we don't just see people as idiots, red staters, red necks, southern hill billys, and so on. We are a great people who has done great things, and maybe sometimes we should see ourselves as something more than a monster. Jekyll and Hyde we may be, but if we lose sight of the Jekyll we may become nothing more than a hyde and all that we once held dear will disappear into a self loathing."

The charge that the left is elitist is all too often true. Here at DU I often see little more than disdain expressed for rural working class people. It's no wonder many of them vote republican.

[lostnfound]

14. "It's the fantasy, stupid!"

You know, that's a good comment. The left doesn't actually spend a lot of time spelling out their own fantasy. We get accused of 'not having a plan' etc. but actually it may simply be that we don't parade out our 'fantasy' as well as the right wingers. In fact, it's been pre-defined in very undesirable ways for us by our opponents, particularly on domestic issues.

[hfojvt]

9. there seems to be a shortage of "well saids" in this thread

K & R

[Pushed To The Left]

10. Excellent points! n/t

[Pirate Smile]

11. Good points. Framing our arguments as optimistic and forward thinking

is necessary.

When we sound like Debbie Downer all the time, people run away even if we are factually correct.

I kicked and recommended you onto the Greatest Page.

[More Than A Feeling]

12. You may have good points, but I'd rather focus on

the fifty million things you got wrong!:silly:

Seriously, though, I think the reason why this has happened is that painting beautiful scenarios of how things could be has somehow become "utopian", and therefore uncool to do. Agree?

[The Straight Story]

13. Would agree mostly

With the whole utopian aspect of things. But I would rather paint a picture of the good that can be than the bad :)

[annabanana]

15. WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS

This is America. This is the country that invented a government of, by and for the people. We have a great legacy and it is our duty as Americans to see to it that our country is the VERY BEST WE CAN MAKE IT. Are YOU happy with the torture? Are YOU happy with the renderings? Are YOU happy with ____ and ___ and ___??

Well, the Party in Power is NOT DOING IT'S JOB.....