What would you do if you just found out that your 18 YO daughter

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

was pregnant by a father who was a fundie who didn't want to marry and didn't want an abortion?

I've just had this thrust into my face.

The only thing I know is to offer my love and support no matter what she decides.

The only question is to what answers or advice I give.

I'm crying now, because I feel so helpless and that the monumental lack of wisdom on my part is overwhelming.

I'd love to hear from the diverse opinions we have here at DU.

Thanks,

TYJ

On edit. She lives out of state with her mother who just called me and asked me to come talk to her.

[FreedomAngel82]

1. I'm sorry

:hug: What does she want?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

8. I think she wants to keep it....

That's what she told her mother who is a very in your face confrontational person. I don't know what she really wants. I just heard it from her mother.

[aclog]

2. how old is the father?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

13. Same age...

Both unemployed and he's not in school.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

31. If she decides to keep the baby...

(and it is up to her in the end), just make sure that the father's name is on the birth certificate. He needs to be responsible for his part in this, and that is the only way it will happen.

Try to get her alone for a heart to heart. Make sure she knows you love her know matter what she chooses.

Adoption may be the best in the end.

:hug: for you.

[aclog]

35. OK your description of him as a fundie

seemed to leave the door open that he was quite a bit older which really changes the situation

[SharonAnn]

62. If he's truly a fundie, then where does he got off not marrying her?

[Maestro]

73. If is a fundie why did he have sex with her outside of marriage?

What an ass! Either way, I hope that things work out and whatever is decided, is decided for the good of the baby.

[blogslut]

3. Have her file a support suit

with her State Atty. General's office pronto.

[tatertop]

4. abort abort abort

absolutely

[aclog]

6. how is this post helpful?

[chimpymustgo]

15. How far along is the pregnancy?

Sounds like an abortion might be her best solution. The baby's father sounds just awful.

Wish your family the best - lots of love and understanding.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

18. Very much in the first trimester.

[tatertop]

30. I like to keep simple things simple

better to abort now than to make a nightmare out of your life.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

33. I would hope, but it's not my decision.

[tatertop]

45. jus' my opinion

1. She is very very young
2. Father is an asshole
3. Father will invariably reappear at the worst possible
juncture in the future
4. We all die someday, sometimes abortion might just be the blow of mercy
5. Never ruin more lives than you absolutely have to

[Mnemosyne]

77. Her life, her choice. Not Tom's.

He's a good guy and will support her choice. It will be difficult either way.

In peace and hope,
V

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. If she decides to keep it father must pay child support if he won't marry.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

26. I haven't met him but my ex's description indicates a loser.

[Ilsa]

47. It is still a big deal to get the order and he will be responsible.

If he ever comes into some money he'll be required to catch up on his child support. There may be provison to garnish wages in some states.

I hope your daughter will decide well for herself. Maybe having this guy around or potentially around isn't such a good thing.

I dated a fundie when I was 20, but I broke up with him when he wanted to get married. He married someone else two years later. He got her pregnant and left her once when she was pregnant, and again after the baby was born, he walked out on her on Christmas day. I'm glad I had the maturity to see through him.

I am very, very sorry you and her are going through this. I wish I could help.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

72. Thanks....

Money is the last thing I am worried about now.

The family has enough to take care of the child through college.

[Maru Kitteh]

95. It's not just about the money

I have a friend who works with a young lady, she got pregnant her senior year of high school. The father and his family are on the upper side of comfortable. No big surprise, the father decided he wanted nothing to do with the child. He didn't want to pay child support either, also no big surprise. She wasn't poor, had the support of her family and decided rather than hassle she just wanted to be rid and done with him so she just let it slide.

10 months later his parents call the girl and say they would like to visit with the baby. She feels instinctualy that there is something fishy going on and agrees to let them see her ONLY if she is present. They say fine, come visit us at the house. She brings the baby over and they all sit and play and visit on the living room floor. After a little while, feeling more comfortable the girl excuses herself for a restroom break. In the time it takes her to pee and wash her hands the "father" swoops in picks up the baby and disappears!

She had NOT bothered to get a custody order so it took her MONTHS to get her baby back. The cops couldn't do anything about it because it was "his" kid. The courts had to spend an eternity making sure the flaky little prick had his rights protected and she had to prove the baby was better off with her, the only parent who wanted her until the staged kidnapping. Turns out Grandma and Grampa were having a case of the empty nest and wanted to basically take her baby.

Get the custody and support order and do NOT wait until after the birth. Do it now.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

102. If it goes to that poin, it will be legal!

[Dan]

69. abort....

Your daughter doesn't need that person in her life, for the rest of her life... and she has the child, then the father of the child is attached.

[Thtwudbeme]

7. I am so sorry

How horrible she must feel right now!

I hope she realizes that the abortion issue is up to her...he has a right to voice his opinion, to a point....but, that ultimately, this is her decision.

Stephanie

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

32. Agreed. I have to keep my own opinions somewhat in check

and let her know I will support her no matter what?

I think?

damn it, I don't know anything!

[Thtwudbeme]

42. None of us know anything Tom---

I am going to be 42 at the end of this month....you know---here's what I do know. Most of the people I know--and I am pretty much your average middle class schmuck--who found themselves pregnant, or had a girl pregnant...Every single one without exception ended up having a lovely child.

Every single story turned out just fine. So, the worst that is going to happen is that you are going to be a little broker, and a lot richer for having another human being in your life--if that is what your daughter chooses.

And this is probably one of the best days of your life, just disguised as a tradgedy to make you feel wiser in twenty years.

That's what I know so far.

Stephanie

[Gormy Cuss]

44. Yes. If you can see her soon that may help her too.

She's probably scared witless at the moment. Nothing like being able to hug your mother and father when you are in such a state.

Plus it might give you a chance to meet the loser and size him up, perhaps remind him that the decision is hers and he may have a 18 year obligation so he'd best get a job now.

[JuniperLea]

46. Sounds like you know a lot... your instincts are spot on

Support her; keep your opinions to yourself; give her the available options if she asks what to do; don't push; love; love; love.

Don't force her to do anything she doesn't want to do. And despite what a lot of people are saying here, if she wants to keep the baby, it does not mean there is a nightmare in your future!


I swear! people can be so cold and cruel and fucking stupid!


Yes, all of you who suggest such crap at a time like this! Have a little human kindness, will ya?




Jeez.

[Mnemosyne]

81. Just

:hug:

[leftchick]

75. Yes it is her decision

and you support her no matter what. It can not hurt to discuss ramifications of her decision if she is willing though. Just be her Dad and let her talk to you.

[Rainscents]

9. I hope he has a job to pay child support.

I would support her whatever the decision she decide. I am so sorry to hear about this bad news.

[Synnical]

10. Does your daughter not want to marry

Or the father not want to marry?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

36. She's MY daughter. I don't think she's worried abt. the

marriage part.

[koopie57]

63. You are living my biggest fear,

and it breaks my heart to know a family has to struggle through such a difficult time.

If it were me, I think that the first thing I would do is gently push her into the direction of not marrying him. Explain to her that getting married will just add more pressure to the situation and marriage is something to think about later. Also if she marries would she be covered under your insurance? Could they afford their own place?

Then I think I would look into the options for her. If she has the baby can she still go to school? Have her spend a weekend with a friend who has small children, talk to an adoption center, check out daycare availability and see what that is like to give her an idea of some of the decisions she will have to make if she has the baby. Maybe even make a list pro and con to put things in a little bit of order in her mind.

If she would get an abortion against his wishes, is there legalities involved. I don't know. But in the end, it is her body and her life. And she can always simply tell him she lost the baby if it is something she wants and doesn't want to have problems with him or his family.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

83. Thanks for the well thought out advice.

I have pretty much reached the conclusion to try and give her the pros and cons as best I can and offer my unconditional support.

reading ALL the responces here has mede this decision easier.

Thank you, ALL!

[Lars39]

11. The fundie won't change being a controlling asshole.

I would hope that my 18 yo-with-her-whole-life-in-front-of-her daughter would have an abortion.
Just my 2.

[Thtwudbeme]

19. I hope everyone makes it clear to this young lady that the decision is

HERS.

Of course he is welcome to voice his opinion, but then he MUST STFU. Permanently.

[Lars39]

27. Agreed.

[SmokingJacket]

12. Do the father's wishes ultimately matter?

Because if she's not married, I don't see what legal rights he has.

:hug:

[Maru Kitteh]

99. I doesn't matter if she IS married,,,,,,,, mkay? It's HER BODY

You don't give up the rights to your body and health because you marry some man.

[abluelady]

14. How far along is she?

Is she still involved with the man?

If he is not in the picture, you have a better chance of things working out the way you want. She might not have a clue what to do right now. You probably need to hug her and listen. Depending on how far along she is, you might have plenty of time for her to make a decision she can live with.

edited to add: I just realized they are both children. I am so sorry.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

38. 1st tri... From what I can glean, they are Friends only.

[China_cat]

79. Whatever she decides about the baby

she needs to abort her relationship with the father.

Been there, done that, got the scars, missing teeth and x-rays of the broken bones to show what happens when you give in to a controlling asshole...and it gets worse if you marry them because (as my dead ex said on our wedding day) they see it as 'now you're mine, bought and paid for'.

Fundies are the absolute worst for domestic violence because their bible gives them not only the 'right' to do it but the DUTY to keep both wife and children in line no matter how they have to do it.

[LiberalPartisan]

16. Be supportive

Like you are doing. Assumedly your daughter is not married. If she's not then the decision is 100% hers. I would encourage her to have the child and I would do everything in my power to support her and drive the fundi dad out of her life.

[BuyingThyme]

17. Fundamentalists, by definition, cannot think.

As long as she knows that her feelings and opinions are the only ones that matter, she will do what's best for her.

[JI7]

20. whether to have an abortion should be HER choice

you need to be there for her no matter what she decides.

the guy doesn't sound all that great. be glad she wont be staying with him for life. but make sure he pays to support the child if she decides to go through with the pregnancy.

as i said, you just need to support her as much as you can , whatever she decides to do. let her know you are there for her.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. She's planning to remain pregnant or abort?

As much as you want to do something to "fix" this situation, it was your daughter's doing and not yours that got her into this mess. All you can do is give advice and watch.

If she is planning to remain pregnant, hopefully it will be because *she* wants it, and not because the freak that got her pregnant is a fundy. She needs to sue his hypocritical a**

[Democrat 4 Ever]

40. Just support her 100% in what ever decision she makes.

If she has the baby make sure that the fundie pays child support. And if he isn't so inclined lock his ass up each and every time he misses a payment.

If she decides on an abortion be there for her no matter what. And hopefully she will be a little more discriminating when it comes to men in the future.

The next few weeks and months will be difficult no matter what the young lady decides. Peace to you and yours.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

50. Excellent advice!

I think people in this situation need support.

If she insists on following that worthless crap around the planet like a puppy dog, you're just going to have to step back, take a deep breath and spend a lot of time active and with other people to forget.

[Bigmack]

22. Lawyer up....

... and find out the legalities. Our lawyer is a guy who could quietly explain the legalities to the girl. The father is financially responsible for the child until it is 18.... married or not.

If she wants an abortion, nothing he says counts, fundie or not.

Love her up!

[Cerridwen]

23. All my first thoughts are totally useless to you at this time.

All I can say is - make sure she knows you love her and will support her whatever she decides. My best to you, your daughter and her mother. This will be a tough time for you all.

I'll leave my political rants and rants about the "father" for another thread.

For now, all I can do is reiterate what I've said about letting her know you love her no matter what.

And for you...

:hug:

My thoughts are with you.

[kineneb]

24. if the father is not willing to take responsibility

then it is up to the woman to decide what to do with her body. If he refuses to marry her, then he really doesn't care for her, and does not deserve a child with part of his DNA. It is now her call, no matter what his belief system dictates.

If it were me, I would tell the boob to take a long walk off of a short pier and to get lost. Permanently. Then go have a chat with Planned Parenthood. 18 is still too young to have a child.

[WillParkinson]

25. So....

He's a fundie....who had sex outside of marriage....doesn't want to be responsible for what he helped create....man, I see a real pattern here.

[Luminous Animal]

28. Well...

Honest to goodness, my advice is to shore up as much family and friend support for her as you possibly can. If she decided to carry this baby to term, then in court, she will be on good footing to maintain primary support because it looks as if this guy is more interested in supporting a potential life than an actual life.

If you know loving people then, rest assured, almost everyone loves a baby. In my very devout Catholic family, my aunt had an out of wedlock child (a situation in which the father was not interested in a relationship with my aunt) and the entire family gathered their resources and their time to emotionally and physically support her and her baby.

[blonndee]

29. "offer my love and support no matter what she decides."

That's the best you can do. I got pregnant in high school, and even though my dad asked me, "can't you marry him?" once I expressed that I was NOT ready to marry this guy and that he wasn't someone I would marry even if I was, they backed off. They could have given me more support, though. They were VERY unhappy and made sure I knew it. No "looking forward" to the birth when I decided to keep the child, and they didn't help me prepare at all.

So one thing you can do is make sure that you and your daughter are well informed about child support laws, as well as the usual things that go along with preparing to raise a child (including financial issues, plans for college if any, etc.) should she choose to have the child.

[Warpy]

34. Tom, I know it's hard to feel powerless, but it's still her call

and your decision to support her no matter what is the best one you could have made.

The decision should be whether or not she wants a baby now, nothing else. Explore with her what she's going to do as a single mother, since the "father" appears to be a sperm donor who has no intention of sticking around very long. Remember being 18? You were immortal, love conquered all, and everything was possible. Try to bring her around to how she's going to earn a living if you can, but don't try to crush her completely.

You didn't make this problem and you can't fix it. All you can do is start asking her some questions she should be asking herself but might not be.

One of my cousins started at 15, 2 kids by her seventeenth birthday. She now has a master's degree and is fairly well off. She would never try to tell you or your daugher that it has been an easy road, though.

[JuniperLea]

37. All I can say is that when I was the girl in that situation

All I wanted was love and support from my father. I got it. I was allowed to vent and tell him what I wanted to do, and even when I changed my mind, he still supported me emotionally and supported my rights as a young woman. It meant the world to me then and it still means the same. He drove me to the doctor's office when I wanted an abortion, then held my head as I cried when I couldn't bring myself to go through with it. I had the baby and he is a chemical engineer now. It was the right thing to do NOT to have an abortion. I'm glad I had the support that allowed me to make that decision... or both those decisions.

Listen, support and love. Don't let anyone tell her what to do. Don't let anyone force her to do anything. Listen and love. If she is confused and wants you to tell her what to do, give her the available options and tell her you will support her in her choice, whatever that may be.

Horrible situation, but nothing is so bad that something good can't come from it. You may find your daughter is your best friend one day because of this.

Keep us posted, okay?

[rateyes]

86. Thank you for telling "your" story...

you are what some call a "wounded healer." Glad you had a good father. Hope I can be the same to my daughters if ever they find themselves in such a situation.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. I'm Glad To Hear She May Keep It. And You Are On The Right Track.

Offer love and support no matter her choice. Him being a fundie doesn't make him an unfit father in my opinion. Has he done anything to portray that he wouldn't be? Or wouldn't be there? Or wouldn't try and support the child and help raise it?

I hope it all works out and hope she chooses to keep it, and I hope thereafter that she has the full support of her family and most importantly the father of the child.

I know this is probably really hard on you, and ever harder on her. If it's any consolation my sister originally got pregnant at 18 and at the time I thought "oh god I don't believe it she'll never be responsible enough to do this". But I was way wrong. Her daughter, now 11, is beautiful and my sister has raised her amazingly. It worked out better than anyone in my family could've ever imagined. It was due in part to the father being there though and eventually marrying her, but even regardless I bet my sister would've found a way to make it work.

I'm sure in the end it will not only all be fine, but that if she chooses to keep it you will have a grandson or grandaughter that you will cherish like you wouldn't believe.

[JuniperLea]

51. Great advice!

That "loser" could become the best father ever. You will never know until it happens. Don't ever underestimate the power of love at first sight. That's what happens when a baby is born. I sure grew up quickly because of it!

The other side of that coin is that if a person wants to have an abortion, that is absolutely the best thing for them. Think about it.

[Horse with no Name]

41. Let me say it is not the end of the world if she decides to keep the child

My daughter found herself in a similar situation.
My granddaughter will be 3 on Sunday and my daughter graduates from college this year.
It has been a struggle (we opted not to pursue this boy for child support--absolutely a personal choice that everyone needs to make for themselves, but you cannot get state help unless you do) and he has not chosen to become involved.
He and his parents visited when she was a week old and we haven't seen them since.
We do without a lot of things, but I wouldn't trade my granddaughter for the world and it has been worth every cent and every sacrifice.
Just let your daughter know you are there for support (financial and emotional) and that you will help.
Impress upon her how important it is for her to finish her education.
I told my daughter that you cannot raise a baby working at McDonalds.
Help all you can.
If she decides to have an abortion, support that decision as well.
It's not the end of the world either.
Good luck!:hug:

[JuniperLea]

54. Great post, HWNN!

Been there... you rock!

[Catch22Dem]

43. Not his place to tell her what NOT to do if he doesn't want to be...

...the responsible man he should be. Sounds like she needs to kick his fucking loser ass to the curb and do whatever her heart AND MIND tell her to do. Fuck this no good fundie, irresponsible, telling-her-what-not-to-do motherfucker.

[rucky]

48. So the fundie's ok with sex before marriage & child out of wedlock...

but draws the line at abortion?!

obviously against birth control, too.

[fed-up]

49. Don't give any advice-the decision is hers, listen-give options, hold her

hand and let her know that you support her no matter what she decides.

She is the one that will live with whatever choice she makes and if you try to "advise" her it may come back to haunt you no matter what she decides.

No matter what she will be completely stressed out, so she should be really watching her diet.

Answers include a trip to Planned Parenthood and online so she can find out exactly what her options are:

Abort, adopt, keep

She also needs a full description of what each of these options entail.

Keep your side of it to information gathering/sounding board and making sure she has a complete understanding and time to make any decisions that need to be made.

Good luck and hugs



This coming from the mother of a sexually active 17 YO male who is hoping to not end up in the same situation (yes, he does use birth control)

[Synnical]

58. Ditto, that

Dad, listen. It's her choice.

[JuniperLea]

61. Ditto that ditto!

Very, very sound advice there!

[SPKrazy]

52. Shotgun Wedding!

The guy sounds like a fundie asshole

Support and love your daughter in whatever she chooses.

Sorry to hear about our situation

[mtnester]

53. There is always the option to put the child up for adoption too

It may mean she has to say, at some point, she is not sure who the father is in order to protect the child from adoption interference by the fundie father and his parents (you would not wish that on a child would ya?)

Or, if she decides that route, could she not go through a private adoption through adoption lawyers? Sort of "interview" the couples wanting to adopt? (besides all the other backgrounds checks, etc.)

A friend of mine and her hubby are having a great time with the young lady whose child they will be adopting...they are helping not only the baby find a good home, but are helping out a young woman who made a decision to giver child up for adoption. She is finishing college, and they are helping her with that.

There are other options beside simply abort or raise the child.

But, ultimately, it is her decision, and as long as she knows you love her and support her in whatever choice she makes....and I am sure she knows that but you have to make it clear...like she never heard it before.

I know everyone will be come out fine with this as long as you all remember to be gentle with each other.

[October]

55. Provide her with all the facts...

but ultimately, she decides.

I'm sorry, because your daughter is so young. I don't know your daughter, perhaps she's mature and willing to change her life to accommodate a child.

My own personal experience is that my parents were teens...and they divorced (having run away and married in VA at 16 because of the pregnancy). My father never sent a card, letter, note, or anything to us. He just left completely -- took off for California and changed his SS#. Never paid support. He's never remembered me or my brother on birthdays or Christmas. Ever. (He tells people his "ex" wouldn't let him see us...the real plight of some divorced fathers has become his convenient excuse/lie!)

My mom resented him, therefore "us." Life was awful having TWO parents who really wished you hadn't arrived. They were so young they couldn't help being totally self-involved, I guess. They just didn't want to be parents. For one family we represented the "bad" in the other family.

We always felt unwanted by our parents -- being born in and of itself did not mean we were WANTED.

I know this is not the case for everyone. There are probably some young parents who make it work, or at least provide love to their children. We had two doozies...and both tunred into total right-wingers in their late 50's -- espousing all that moral crap! It boggles the mind.

Anyway, you know your daughter. She needs you now, of course. Present her with all the information you can.

[YvonneCa]

56. Love your daughter through this crisis...

...and let her tell you what she wants to do. As the mother of two daughters, know she needs you and will appreciate (always) that you stood by her. This is her decision. She just needs to know you are there...no matter what.

[Ilsa]

57. You might consider trying to talk to her about it.

She might appreciate hearing what you think. Rarely do 18 year olds have a good picture of what lies ahead being a parent and student.

If she goes the abortion route, she could always just lie to the bastard and tell him she had a miscarriage so he won't be bothering her all of the time about not "respecting his wishes". Some people deserve to be lied to.

Selfish bastard hypocrite. That's the worst kind: doesn't beleive in abortion but doesn't want to own up to his responsibility. I wonder why he didn't think about that before they got intimate.

[ellenfl]

59. i thought fundies believed in the sanctity of marriage?

he is a slime, fundie or not. this is exactly why a woman's right to choose should be inviolate . . . because so many men wash their hands of all responsibility.

let her tell you what she wants but don't let her believe that this guy might come around. he either wants a wife and child or he doesn't and he has already told her no.

above all, no lectures and no bad-mouthing the boy . . . and talk to her mother beforehand, so you can be of one voice on this . . . assuming she agrees with you, of course. this is about your daughter, not you and not her mother. use your non-authoritarian adult voice.

my 2 pennies.

ellen fl

[leftchick]

60. How sad

I have no idea what to advise as I am not sure what she is thinking. It is obvious she has no support from the fundie asshat. If she has the baby, is she prepared to dog him for 18 years for support? She could have the baby and put it up for adoptionn. But then fundie boy may pull an "I am the father and object" at the last moment. If she decides on an abortion will he try and stop her?

Let us know more after you have had a calm Dad discussion with her. We are with you and your daughter TYJ!

:hug:

[RB TexLa]

64. one more to add to things that make me happy I don't raise children

Hard thing to go through, I wish you wisdom and good luck.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

65. Tell her you love her

and that you will stand by and support whatever she chooses to do. If she asks (and only if she asks), spell out the consequences to the various actions she can take. Then support whatever she chooses. It is probably for the best that the father doesn't want to accept responsibility-what kind of father would he be for the child?

[Coexist]

66. Tom - you can just love her and support her no matter what she decides

whether it be having the child, giving him/her up for adoption or having an abortion.

It is bad enough to have a man who professes to be a Fundamentalist Christian, yet has sex before marriage, then refuses to marry the woman he "sinned" with - she doesn't need anything from you but the promise that you will love her no matter what. The father doesn't seem very together (but how many of us were, at 18?!)

If she chooses adoption, please make sure the father agrees to signing all the paperwork, so as not to create a huge emotional issue with the chosen parents.

If she chooses to raise the baby, please make sure you consult an attorney and get the financial issue put to bed before the baby is born.

If she chooses to have an abortion, please make sure she attends some type of post-abortion counseling. Of all the women I know who have had abortions, the only one who fell apart "didn't need" the counseling and had issues for a couple of years.

Best of luck, whatever happens.

(on edit: if she is telling you that she is pregnant, I would bet that she wants to keep it - if she were truly leaning towards having an abortion, she would probably have kept that between her and the father until afterwords.)

[Syncronaut Seven]

67. Important questions to ask RE:the boyfriend.

Is he a local boy? In other words, will anyone notice if he goes missing?

Do you have any quicklime? Buy it cash, out of town.

Try to do him right over the hole, so you don't strain your back shoving him in.

Strong coffee interferes with tests for blood, make it triple strength, Pour it on all contaminated surfaces.

Do your neighbors live close? can you dismiss the screaming as a family pet?

Admit it, you really do want a new driveway, at least 6" thick, so it doesn't get disturbed for a long time.

Learn to lie, It's getting to be an essential tool for survival these days.

In the end, even if you get caught, Know it was worth it.
:evilgrin:

On edit: Child support. Gotta have it, every month for what is it now? 22 years?. Hmm..... That decision of his is going to cost him about $300,000. Hope he has a good job. You don't want him as a son in law, But your daughter now has a ticket to ride. Make him pay, and pay, and pay, and pay. His ass is now yours for you to abuse as you see fit, for the next 22 years or so.

Make sure he pays for all the pre-natal too. Don't know how he's going to convince his insurance to cover seeing as they have no plans to marry.

Talked to his father? mother? pastor? boss? Some employers look down at employees who don't honor their obligations. Shame can be a powerfull force. Take out a large ad in the local paper calling him out. Advise other women in the lonely hearts column about his views on responsibility.

There are lots of things you can do to him, before you kill him.

[Straight Shooter]

68. Forget the adoption!

The baby will be so lucky to have you as a grandfather, it won't matter that the father is a jerk.

:hug:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

85. Thanks, I can only hope so.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

70. Sorry I left. Just got off the phone with her mother and

no new news....

*sigh*

[papau]

78. Tom - re-read Straight Shooter's post - If she wants to keep the child you

are a grandfather - and that is a great place to be.

If she wants to abort, it would be like she never met the controling fundie.

Just give a lot of hugs and support any decision she wants to make, saying you will be there for her if she aborts, and you will be there for her and the child if chooses to necome a mother.

By the way - in either case your daughter has a medical event ahead of her - and needs your support - and I suspect you may need support as you wait for the outcome of whatever medical event is ahead.

Good Luck to you both.

:toast:

:-)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

84. You are absolutely right. Thanks.

[adigal]

71. Why is this your lack of wisdom???

This is an 18 year old woman - she can make decisions and be responsible for those decision. All you can do is love and support those decisions. Since the fundie does not want to get married and support his child, the 18 year old needs to decide what to do without any thought of him. Nice, huh??

Good luck, be strong, she will need you to be strong. My thoughts are with you.

[H2O Man]

74. If I were a betting man

I would bet that you will tell your daughter that you are her father, and that you will love and support her no matter what decision she makes. More, I'd bet there is a very good chance that your daughter will have the baby, and that in the next 36 months, your relationship with your daughter will become stronger -- something you both have wished for -- and that in that same time period you will come to appreciate the miracle of life in a way that you never have before.

Your friend,
Water Man

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

80. Thanks, Waterman. that's the way I see it as well.

And fuck you, you made me cry again! (LOL)

Why is it I admit to that so easily here?

[H2O Man]

90. We never "admit"

to laughing. Wouldn't think of denying it. Emotions are what they are.

Chief Paul Waterman told me that the womb and the ancestor are the same thing. Did you know your grandparents?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

106. All but one...

Good advice. THanks.

[insanity]

76. From a 19 YO's perspective:

You should consider adoption if she wants to have it, because I understand that some people morally object. But the kids I know at college with a baby (while the love the kid) can not take care of it.

[davekriss]

82. TYJ, If she decides to keep the baby...

...and it should be her decision, reality-based (it WILL change her life forever)...

If she decides to keep the baby, then I'd share this poem with her:

BIRTH
Kathryn Van Spanckeren

Was it the moment you crowned,
red egg gflistening within the nest of hair?

Or when your head craned out, wrenched
....awkwardly awry,
hatched like a baby bird, wide mouth and
....tight-squeezed eyes,

Or the fast glide all the way out, pale
....slithery fish,
enveloped in white glaze like a new loaf
....of bread?

They said, "It's a boy!" Was it then?
Or when they sut the cord, trailing,
white, thick and blue-veined, like life
....in the wrist.

Then your first delayed breath, first
....wintery cry,
when we shouted for joy, all surreptitiously
counting fingers. Was it when we reached
....ten?

Or when you lay like one rescued from
....drowning,
beached on my stomach,
warm packet, little brave boat?

Now every time you nurse it happens
....again: how
you opened your seacolored eyes into mine,
....and something
surged toward me, a star falling from
....behind a night
where the dead and unborn pace.

No war, no other death could have severed
....that gaze.
Your eyes still sing, "was it you? So it
....was you!
It is good, this world, this first day
....of creation"

Huge love sprung out of fragile space,
was it then? The birth?
And who was born?

Note, the use of "...." above is meant to preserve the placement of words on the page (as important as the words themselves in much of the poetic cannon).

This from River Styx 5, 1979, a poetry and cultural journal and from a time when they accepted poetry from even the likes of me (long time ago, seems like another life!). This poem, by Kathryn, always brings back for me the reverential miracle of birth, a passage that each and every one of us has been through and the same gift we give our children. "Was it you? So it was you! It is good, this world, this first day of creation." Lovely. Pretty. A reminder that the sun still shines and flowers bloom. IF your daughter decides to keep the baby, it is as universal and initimate a miracle as we will ever know.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

88. Thank you, that's beautiful....

I used to publish in places like that as well.

[davekriss]

91. You are welcome, and remember...

...the truth is we control so very little in life. The trick is to greet everything with praise and affirmation, always striving for "the best".

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

87. Thank you, Mods for letting this thread exist.

It has been of great help to what I'm going through right now.

[pop goes the weasel]

89. be upfront

I'm going to pessimistic and a downer here, to counter all the "what the hey, have the kid" posts.

She's 18. The choice is hers. But at 18 (and even older, it seems) people don't take into account that things may not go easily. Tell her that she needs to sit down and really consider what she will do, not only if she has a perfectly healthy child, but what she will do if she has a child that has high-demands. That is, she needs a Plan A for the best case scenario, and a Plan B for the worst case. Schooling, work, housing can be very difficult to manage for a single mother under the best of circumstances. She absolutely must consider the worst of circumstances.

And what about you or your ex? Are either one of you willing and/or able to sign on to raising a child? Without one of you helping, it will be crushingly hard. Your daughter can decide to have a pregnancy, she can decide to give birth, she can decide to keep the child and not give it up for adoption, but she can't make the decision for her parents about how you will spend the next 18 years. She might want more support from you, but you can only give what you can give. So what are your plans, if your daughter ends up having a baby but gives up on raising it?

It is hard to raise a child on your own when you are young and poor and alone. It is especially hard to raise a child who has special needs. I'm speaking from my personal experience here. She can cherish the child and be glad to have the kid around, but that isn't going to put food on the table or a roof over their heads. The "pro-life" forces may kick in some diapers and formula early on (and don't count on that), but don't expect so much as a how-do-you-do when that baby is a teenager. And if there are special needs, finding help will be a never-ending and usually unrequitted task. She will still have to get up and go to work in the morning no matter how many hours she spent in the ER the night before. She'll have to spend her every spare moment arguing with bureaucrats. No one thinks about that aspect of parenting at 18, but it is just as real as baby dimples, and sticks around longer.

So, just make sure your daughter isn't daydreaming about pastels and oh-so-cute baby clothes. Tell her you expect her to come to her own decision, but that you also expect her to work out a reasonable plan of action for whatever may happen. If she is going to go through with the pregnancy, she needs to be planning her parenthood for sickness and health. IMHO, if she is not willing to take whatever may come her way, if she is not willing to lay herself down for that child for the rest of her life, she has no business having a child.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

92. If That's The Only Reason Than I Hope She'd Give It Up For Adoption.

I'm sure it would find an incredibly loving home to nurture it and give it a wonderful life. I don't think abortion should ever, ever be used for the reasons you stated, but understand others have different views. Just wanted to put mine out there as well.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

93. I've pretty much accepted the fact that I and mine might very

well be raising the child.

Sometimes things don't work out the way you would like. I'm sure my daughter is victim to the daydreams of an 18 year old. That's one of the things she scares me with.

Unfortunately, there is no way to stop the young from dreaming. It's good for them.

Ther's no handbook on life. I wish there were.

[cmd]

97. Very good points

Best of luck to you and your daughter, Tom.

[Joe Fields]

94. Do not, I repeat DO NOT

Allow that man anywhere near that child.

But make sure he pays for its support.

[Cleita]

96. You are doing the right thing. Love and support is what she

needs. When she discovers, on her own, that she made a big mistake, she's going to need more love and support than ever. Keep those lines of communication open and things will work out in the end. Trust me.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

98. i'm asking the mods to lock this, I have received so much great

advice and need to go to bed to take a long drive tomorrow to speak with my daughter.


Thank you so much everyone.

[Maru Kitteh]

101. Please see my post about custody and support above before you go!

It's important!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

105. I saw that, thanks! I am among the more cynical people you will ever meet

If the pregnancy goes to term, the child will be loved AND protected.

[BlackVelvet04]

100. One thing that nobody has addressed yet,

is guilt. If your daughter has a tendency toward having a lot of guilt about things it needs to be addressed....maybe with counselling. I have a sister who had a child out of wedlock and then became anorexic from guilt. I have friends who had abortions who had problems like depression, bulimia and obesity due to guilt.

Please be sure this is dealt with if you perceive it as a problem.

Good luck and best wishes for you and your daughter.

[Senator]

103. Here's what I Did Once (FWIW)

Not the same situation, but with a "father" that some would find objectionable. And not a family member, making it much easier.

(This is just easier to write in "instructive" format. Please forgive. It's just that I kept "instructing" myself in my situation.)

First, it is HER decision. I don't know you, so you may or may not need to do some work on "keeping your own views out of it." But be that as it may, you can help her keep the views of others out of it. Yes, that means the boy but it also means her mother and any other relatives, friends, etc..

You can be helpful at walking her through a process of setting aside the opinons/beliefs of others.

Yes, HIS influence will be hardest to deal with. But she "must agree" at some point that this is HER situation. He may be happy/standingbyher/angry(?) now, but he does not have to be or stay that way. He can be willing/able to support financially now, be he does not have to be or stay that way. He can be "gone" at any time. She needs to admit this to herself. You can help her do this. You need to actually say "What if he's hit by a bus tommorrow?" -- even though it might sound cruel (perhaps suspicious). She needs to internalize it.

The same is true for others, and you. People her age can have difficulty "factoring-in" mortality and such, but it does help concentrate one's thinking, even if you don't see these events as likely.

Attack "worst case scenarios" with reality, as you know and can describe it. The easiest example is finances. Is "the worst" case that she'll be alone with child and homeless? (I'd like to hope not.) If not, don't allow her to fear that. Fear clouds the mind. And it can't be saying something like "we'll work it out." You have to talk in real, specific solutions like: "So, you'll be living in XXX's basement and I can give you $$$ a week for the basics."

In general, try to get her to "try out" possible future situations and see how they make her feel. But try not to present them with any value pre-judgement on them. (This can be hard to do when trying to extoll the upsides of say, "convent living.")

You haven't mentioned her "level of fundyism," if any. If it's there, she may not have a "big decision." It may just be your problem here. But she can be (gently) reminded that people often change their religious views, sometimes with regret for their earlier beliefs. She should at least admit that "as a possibility."

And keep returning to the first part (HER decision -- wash, rinse, repeat).

I'm sure I don't need to remind you to LISTEN CLOSELY. As this can tell you what aspects she's having trouble with, allowing you to help her with those.

Best of luck.

--

[LaraMN]

104. From the perspective of someone who's been in a *somewhat* similar

situation (although the father was not loser-esque as the one you describe sounds to be)
being supportive of her and her choice is of the utmost importance. If I might add, supposing she would like to go on and attend college, DO EVERYTHING in your power to help her do so. If she is given love, support, and the tools to become a financially stable, independent adult, the specter of an insufficient father will be less a burden on her (and her child's) life.

Hugs to you, and congratulations if, in fact, you are to become a Grandfather.

[raysr]

107. Remove fundie scrotum, abort,

It's hereditary.

[davidinalameda]

108. locking

per request of original poster