Just got off the phone with my fundy mother.... (choice)

[converted_democrat]

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

I call her every Sat. just to chat and see what's going on with my family up north.. Today I called her at home, and she wasn't there, so I called her on her cell.. She says, "Hi, XXXXX, I can't talk right now because I'm on my way into church." I said, "Mom, it's Sat. you don't have to go to church today.." She then explains to me that the church is holding a "baby shower" for a group of 17 teens that are having babies... At first I almost thought it was nice, until we got to this part.. These girls were referred to the church though a group that councils girls on their "choices" when it comes to pregnancy.. Well, it's a small town, and I know exactly the group of people she is talking about, and the only choices these girls are told about are having the baby and keeping it, and having the baby and giving it away.. This really pisses me off..

These girls aren't being told the truth about what their options really are, and then to top that off these women in my Mom's church are telling them if they have the babies they will "help" them.. I'm sorry, but a pack of Huggies, a couple outfits, a couple baby blankets (That's what all of the girls are getting as a gift for the shower, and all the "help" they we see out of these people), and some promised prayers isn't the help that these girls need.. These babies are going to cost them tens of thousands before it's all over, not to mention the emotional cost of having a baby at that age, and no one is telling them the truth about what they are really up against.. No one is telling about the future they could have.. This just seems highly deceitful to me..

Then to top it all off, I find out that the youth minister's wife just started this program to "help" the young girls of our community.. I guess you would have to be familiar with the situation, but this women has been trying for years to have a baby, and has tried to adopt from Russia and from China, and has never been able to get herself a baby.. (She is as nutty as a fruit cake, and never does anything unless it directly benefits her.) Call me cynical, but I don't think she started this program out of the goodness of her heart.. I think she's doing this to get her hands on some naive girl to give her a baby.. These people piss me off to no end.. They lie, cheat, and ruin people's lives, but it's okay as long as it's done in the Lord's name..

I know my Mom, and I know her group.. These women aren't going to be there for the long haul.. They don't understand or even care about these girls are really up against.. I hate these people.. They don't care about how many lives they are ruining...

:rant:

[Poll_Blind]

1. Ugh, that's pretty messed up. I would like to say "I'm not...

...suprised" but the truth is I am continually suprised by the crap that people get up to to manipulate others to their will. It makes me really, really sad.

PB

[oregonjen]

2. Did you ask your Mom if the group will be there for them in 18 years

when it's time for them to go to college? How about when they need medical care. Are they willing to foot the bill?

[converted_democrat]

3. I asked her if she honestly thought the "help" her and her friends were

giving was going to be enough over the long haul, and she said it was better than nothing.. I didn't even want to get into a "choice" conversation with her.. I don't have the energy anymore..

[KittyWampus]

4. I don't know what to say. Those girls will make choices and move forward

hopefully, the children and new Moms will find help when they need it.

Those Mothers & their babies are going to have a struggle.

Let's just wish that struggle doesn't end up perpetuating negative cycles of ignorance, despair and lack of choice.

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. Sounds so much like a local Fundy church here

The bastards are making money hand over fist, telling people how to vote, have a church bus to go out and pick up Mexican farmworkers and/or their kids who don't speak any English to get them into their church and to take their moeny, will openly denounce anyone who leaves the church and say libelous or slanderous things about them, has a choir master who is a known teen pedophile (really it's a secret, but everyone, including his wife, knows he has "affairs" with teen boys), and will berate, chastise any church member who is not bending to god's (their) will. When it's election/vote time for anything, they get a copy of the sample ballot, fill it in with all Repug votes/issues, then make copies and pass these out to the congregastion telling them this is the way they have to vote...for the good of our nationjesuschristamen.

I know quite a few people who used to be sucked in by this fundy church. There is so much that goes on there that is so wrong, convoluted, all in self-interest inthenameofjesuschristourlordwhogavehislifesowewoulodnothavetoliveourlivesinsin-
gimmemoneyamenbrothersandsisters!

[converted_democrat]

6. So glad that someone "gets it." People that haven't grown up in it

can't even begin to understand just how messed up and warped these people are.. It's sad and sick all at the same time..

[ComerPerro]

7. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions

Sounds almost as if these people's hearts are in the right place, but they may not be helping as much as they would like to think.

But, then again, at least they aren't calling these women sluts and whores, like I've seen a lot of so-called "Christians" do...

[Whoa_Nelly]

11. And then there are those who, for all appearances, look to have

their hearts in the right place, but it's really about power over and gaining numbers in the form of bodies who can "volunteer" to "teach" in their X-tian schools, give money to the church, and testify and recruit more naive people in need. For a lot of these churches it's about numbers, politics and keeping money for themselves.

The fundy church here, that I wrote about above, uses the tithing, and then berates people, literally from the pulpit in front of the entire congregation, to give them more money. Then, they use that money to buy themselves things, keep making empty promises of a "new church building" that has yet to begin in well over 15 years, and to build houses for the pastor's family, buy expensive vehicles, register those vehicles in another state to avoid paying CA registration, and more.

Hearts in the right place? From the poster's original posting about her mom and that church, it rings untrue to my ears. The more these people can have people join them inchristsnameeverlastingbeourservants, the more the people who head/lead/started that church personally benefit. It's all about using guilt. It's all about power over. It's all about finding people in need and intentionally misleading them, all for keeping the church alive and growing to meet their personal needs. It's a racket that needs to be exposed and stopped.

Am not ranting at you, ComerPerro. :hi:

Am just mad as all git out that this shit goes on.

[ComerPerro]

15. I know what you mean. Its frustrating as hell

that they turn these poor women right to a church. I wonder what other options are given, if any at all?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. From What You Write It Doesn't Sound So Bad

I don't see a problem with trying to show these girls why having the child can be a good option and then offering support if that is what they choose. I think all options of keeping the child should always be the most heavily and seriously considered and don't see why a group trying to help in this way is evil somehow.

If anywhere in your post it mentioned that the parents had forced the teens to have the child or refused to give the child a choice to abort, and the church group threatened the teens somehow or gave them severe guilt trips, well that's different. But I didn't see any of that in your post. I just saw a group of good people trying to offer support and suggestions to pregant teens trying to get them to err on the side of life. Good for them! But I hope they wouldn't use threats or forceful guilt etc as influence to the teens decision.

[converted_democrat]

9. They are not telling the truth about what their real options are..

I think that's wrong.. Having a baby is a big deal.. Giving a girl a pack of diapers and a baby blanket isn't nearly enough help to get them through 18 years.. I know these women.. They play bridge and sip ice tea all day.. They aren't ever going to be there when these girls really need them.. Hell, I know all these ladies and their kids.. They don't help their own children.. They aren't going to help strangers.. They're telling them to have this kid and tell them they will help them.. Total BS.. These people help no one but themselves..

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. I Don't Consider An Offer Of Helping As Translating Into

an offer to raise them and financially support them the rest of their lives. If you do that's ok, but I think that's taking their offer of help a bit too far. I don't think they are misleading them by offering help, I think they are reaching out to them and saying emotionally and in times of emergency they would lend a hand. I don't think they're saying "have the baby, we will all chip in each month every month for the next 18 years to make sure you never have to have any hardship at all".

[converted_democrat]

16. They aren't telling them what their options are, and they are tricking

these girls into believing that they will always be there to help which is pure BS.. Unless you've belonged to a fundy church you can't even begin to understand.. These girls are young and they have their whole lives in front of them.. These women are being deceitful and messing up their lives for no reason.. Now these girls will be stuck with a baby forever because they think they are going to have "help." It's a lie, and these girls will suffer for the rest of their lives because of it..

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. That's The Girls Fault, not the Churches.

Unless the girl was raped then being stuck with a baby is the fault of their own. The baby may turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to them, and I don't know why you default to considering it completely messing up their lives for no reason. I'm not sure the girls will be suffering the rest of their lives either. And the women that choose to continue offering support and help god bless em, but I still don't see their words as saying they will be there forever or that there will be no hardship.

And since the church is saying adoption is an option, than how are they automatically messing up the girls lives forever and ever and ever and taking away their whole lives that were ahead of them? That's the part I don't get.

On edit: This is only on the assumption that the girls still have a choice to abort if they choose, and aren't being forced to not have that option. If all options are open and the women are just trying to sway the teen towards keeping the baby or having it and giving it up for adoption, than I see no problem.

[converted_democrat]

19. BS.......

They don't even teach sex education where I come from.. How would these girls "know" what they're doing?? How??

This area has a huge meth epidemic.. The only kids that are making it are the ones that get out of town.. No one told these girls that they could end this, and move on. They lie about what there real options are, and then say they are going to help.. It's beyond the pale, and you defend it?? These girls will never have a chance..

[July]

22. Mind if I amend your first comment?

I refer to "being stuck with a baby is the fault of their own." I would say that, unless these girls had immaculate conceptions, at least two people are "at fault." And I've known enough people who've had birth control fail that I'm than enthusiastic about assigning blame for pregnancies, anyway.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. Agreed Completely.

You are right, I shouldn't have made it that grand sweeping of a generalization. Of course it is the man's fault as well (probably moreso cause lord knows at that age the guy probably begged and manipulated his ass off to try to get her in bed in the first place lol), and I myself am a birth control baby so I hear ya on that front as well.

[converted_democrat]

23. And you know what??

It is the churches fault.. If they didn't have as much power as they do in this area, these girls might have gotten some decent sex ed and they would've known how to operate a condom.. It is the churches fault..

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. No One Ever Taught Me How To Use A Condom. I just, ya know, kinda

figured it out myself.

And if the girls at that age aren't aware that having sex may lead to pregnancy, than there are allllllll sorts of deeper issues going on that I'm not even going to touch.

[converted_democrat]

28. That's what you don't get... Unless you've lived this you can't

understand it.. It's a cycle of control and ignorance that no one can understand unless you've lived it.. These people intentionally keep people in the dark about everything, and then control them.. You can't even begin to get it unless you've lived it.. It's so much worse than what the outside world can even understand.. It's like a third world nation on so many levels..

[converted_democrat]

29. Just to give you some perspective..

Some of the poorer church members live in trailers with no electric and no plumbing so they can save money to give to God.. Unless you lived it, you can't understand it. The entire community is under the spell of this church.. It's like a disease that's out of control.

[Whoa_Nelly]

27. When you're a vulnerable and pregnant teen

you don't always understand that you have a choice, and churches like the one c_d describes, are more than willing to make sure that these vulnerable children don't figure it out.

It's not the teen girls' fault. They are being exploited, snatched up by the fundy church before anyone can say, "Boo!"

Not all teens are aware they have options in life. Not all teens have homes where they feel safe, so they grab onto and join those who lie about giving them, haven, giving them shelter, giving them hope.

It's a sad situation, and one that goes on more than many people realize in our country.

Lucky the teen who's savvy and aware. Not all teens have that going for them in their lives and/or in their little corner of America.

[Whoa_Nelly]

20. I understand what you mean, c_d

And the fundies in the church will talk badly about these girls and their "bastard" children, and play nice to their faces. From what I know from the fundies in my area of the country, the girls, in their need and naiveness, are being taken advantage of to simply add more numbers to support the fundy political stance, and to add numbers to the church, which in turn equals more money, whether eventually from hte girls themselves, or from the church members who will "contribute" money for the girls, which is then funneled directly into the pockets of the church leaders.

It's not about being X-tian.
It is all about control, money, greed, and being right for the Right Wing.

[converted_democrat]

21. Thank you... Nelly..

:hug:

[Horse with no Name]

31. It is wrong

These girls should be told all of their choices and options available to them.
The ones that want to have a baby should be given a shower and that would be a nice gesture.
However, the ones that would rather have an abortion should not have to be subjected to gifts of diapers and cute little clothes. That is wrong. That is emotional warfare.

[Lochloosa]

10. A wild guess....Live Oak or Lake City?

[converted_democrat]

12. This church is in Ohio, but when my Mom comes down to visit me she

goes to Lake City.. How did you know that?

[Lochloosa]

14. I grew up in Tallahassee. When you said small town and I saw you

were from Florida it didn't take much to put it together.

Lake City is being taken over by fundies.

[kevinbgoode]

17. I think you should ask your Mom how to make a contribution

to the 17 babies' future college fund. . .hehehe. . .just to get the surprise in her voice when she acts confused about all that. . .

[I Have A Dream]

26. Interesting what you say about the youth minister's wife.

There's a man where I work who is anti-choice because he thinks that it will make it easier for him & his wife to adopt a child. People like this think that it's OK to force women to be baby factories for them. Of course, they'd only want the newborn white babies.

(Note: There are lots of wonderful people in the world who are willing to adopt children of any color, ethnicity or age. I applaude them, and they have my respect. This person is not like this.)

[Tsiyu]

30. I learned ALL about people like the minister's wife from

"Elizabeth."

Elizabeth was adopted by rich Repukes. When she turned out to have some neurological troubles at three months old (probably from the teen mother's drug use and/or physical situation) the adoptive parents brought her to our childrens hospital and just LEFT HER.

Oh, they also brought her expensive bedding and wall hangings and layette. Her room at the hospital was high style. But they just LEFT HER.

When I had a moment to spare, I would walk into her room and pick her up to stop her crying - she was ALWAYS crying - but then I would cry too if I was discarded like a defective appliance by people who signed papers saying they would raise me and love me.

Adoption to these people is NOT for "better or worse." These types want to be parents but only if everything about their store-bought child is perfect. Defects? NO!!!!!!!! Can't have a child with any of those. Elizabeth was only one of a dozen babies I saw in the "return bin."


And these fundy sorts wonder why they were never able to conceive on their own?

Sometimes, nature knows perfectly well what she is doing.