i noticed some funny things about the islamic protesters

[LSK]

Why are the FONTS all the SAME?

Why are the signs written in ENGLISH and not Arabic or German or the language of one of the European offending countries???

Could this be more PROPAGANDA from the MSM and the powers that be? :tinfoilhat: :shrug:

[laruemtt]

1. pretty observant - could

be propaganda, or it could be that they just delegated the sign-making to one person?

[electropop]

46. The guy in front in the last shot - could that be...

KKKarl Rove?

[rpannier]

2. Maybe they all hired the same place to make their posters

Where's the first picture taken? The police officer looks like a "bobby."

On edit: One thing about the English on the sign...they may be in Enlgish because English is pretty much the international language now. I learned that living in the Czech Rep and Korea and travelling to different countries.

[DRoseDARs]

3. I'm assuming those are all pics from protests in the UK...

...so it stands to reason that they'd all have the same font (if it's an organized protest) and they'd be written in English.

[fooj]

4. Organized or not...

All the SAME font is very strange, IMO.

Peace.

[formactv]

5. It's not a font

It is handwritten with a big marker.

[BiggJawn]

50. picky-picky.

OK, "Style of calligraphy" then.
Happy now?

[buddysmellgood]

79. It's the font of the hand that wrote it. Let's call it ExtremismBoldExt

[formernaderite]

82. It's really just the marker

and probably one or two people werein charge of making the signs for the "organized" protest...not uncommon.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. As a teacher, I have a little experience in looking at handwriting

and every single one of those signs were printed by the same person, IMPO.

[fooj]

105. Yep. Busy little beaver, huh?

Peace.

[file83]

110. Carl Sagan's book "Demon Haunted World" is AWESOME!!!

I love and miss Carl - Notice how crazy the world got after he left? My roommate and I are watching the entire Cosmos series these next few weeks, we are on episode 5. I'm LOVING it. He is the best. :thumbsup:

[PretzelWarrior]

6. no. some of them really are that deranged by religious passion

just like the people over here who felt completely violated by something will say things like "NUKE THE WHOLE THING" which is a tad worse than 9/11'ing something.

[rman]

23. *some* of them - indeed

[FreedomAngel82]

64. Something I wonder

would they say "your attack is coming soon" or would they say "your 9/11 is coming soon"?

[magellan]

7. Probably all written by the same crazy imam

And yes, that is the UK.

[Benbow]

40. You don't have to be a "crazy imam" to be angry about sacrilege

against the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH).

I have been struck by how American DU'ers have reacted to the current row precipitated by the Danish cartoons. This has really rattled even Democrats.

A quarter of the world's population is Muslim, and I believe that most of them hate America more now than they did pre-2003 and the illegal invasion of Iraq. With that unifying thought - and their Muslim governments standing back (why should they not) - ordinary Muslims on the street could do a lot of damage to US investments and credibility around the world, in a very short time. True people-power - this is a way in which the US superiority in military terms could be neutralised.

[donco6]

70. Yeah! People power!

Uh . . . but what about those threats of another "911"? That's an OK demonstration of "people power?"

And what's to stop these "ordinary Muslims" from getting inflamed at the next episode of Family Guy? or South Park? Should we stop those shows?

And then there's those half-naked pictures of women in their underwear in newspapers. We'd better get rid of all those, too.

I think I'll just put on this burka and hide.

[formernaderite]

84. I would think South Park would freak them out...

I also read that some of the Imams have been passing around additional cartoons that the Danish paper NEVER published. These "extra" cartoons were very crass...seems like there's a concerted extremist effort here to get the masses riled up.

[donco6]

89. It does seem awfully convenient.

I just don't see much point in adjusting our freedom of speech and expression in light of the fact that they can object to HUNDREDS of things anytime they want. It's a futile effort.

[magellan]

100. Sorry, but anyone who encourages violence

...in response to sacrilege is crazy in my book.

[tocqueville]

8. the pics are from the UK

but the most interesting aspect of this story is that the most violent displays have been in SYRIA, of all places. Syria is a baath-party - Saddam cousin - dictatorship where you need a warrant to fart in public. Besides it has always shown a SECULAR profile not the one of a theocracy.

All this is organized, it's obvious. But I don't think it organized by the West. Maybe the Iranians are expecting a strike and are trying to mobilize the masses in a general anti-west feeling, to make more difficult access to bases in Turkey, the Gulf etc...

But such a display could hit both ways. Except for the Xian religious fundies in the US, there is very little understanding for the Muslim reaction among the Western masses. A lot of people feel threatened by the idea that the Muslims are trying to impose their views on them. I am afraid that we are heading towards a clash of civilisations...

[izzie]

31. Well this sounds sort of right to me.

Bush's war is like the man with the stick and the ant hill. Now that we have got the mess all started things happen. I have lived in Saudi and all the Saudi people and men working in their country talk of freedom right along with religion and do it with Western people all the time. One on one. I had a man from Pakistan go nuts trying to get me to show him my Bible and Cross. I did not bring any in the country but he did not believe me yet he also wanted me to bring him to Am. so he could be free. He used to sit and wait for me. So I would say they want to be free just like us but in a religious field. That is going to be hard. Western people have been in this battle since the Age of Reason. How these people are going to do it is hard to see. It is always hard to give up power and turn it over to the people. Even the people need rules and we of all countries know how hard that is to make work. That battle goes on daily here.

[FreedomAngel82]

65. Which to me

is quite sad how they're trying to force their view of Christianity on them.
At my church today we had a guest speaker and one time he talked about abortion and gay people and you could tell he was against it but he didn't mention anything with laws or whatever like how Falwell, Dobson, Robertson etc. do.

[mrfrapp]

126. BBC link

In Syria, such violence is so rare that some people have wondered whether the attacks on the Danish and Norwegian embassies might not have been provoked by government agents, in order to discredit the beleaguered Islamists there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4685886.stm

Interesting and insightful article.

[me b zola]

9. I would like to know where those pics were taken

But I have got to say, you make an interesting point and I share your concern. The slogans that they are using seem to play to "American fear" (faux newz watcher's fear). "Massacre", "exterminate", "butcher", "slay", and "911". The signs just seem so...Americanized.

[mmonk]

49. Yeah, the choice of words

seems suspicious unless they are trying to drive the Europeans into reactionary fear like here. Usually, their protests of the past have used "butcher", "massacre", and "exterminate" to describe the west and Israel as engaging in those things and not attributable to themselves.

[McKenzie]

10. "exterminate - butcher - massacre - slay"

Those words appear at the top of some of the placards. There is another bearing the words: "Your 9/11 is on its way".

They have almost certainly pissed more people off/made more, uninformed people afraid, by using that language. It is certainly very strong and almost invites the reader to feel outraged. In fact, the language seems to have been deliberately designed to inflame opinion. Either the protestors have a death wish or something else is at work here.

There is already a climate of fear amongst UK moslems so WTF would they inflame the situation even further? Seems odd.

Well spotted.

[CJCRANE]

13. The moderate muslims need to get together and

find out who wrote those signs and have...strong words with him.

Those pictures are now on RW websites in Europe and America and totally confirm RW stereotypes.

[me b zola]

21. Those words stuck out like a sore thumb to me as well

The use of language just seems American. There is something wrong here.

[izzie]

35. I hope we do not have a Corp. paid to do this?

Such odd things have come out of DC and we have paid for such GD things already I guess this could be true. I hope we are not that bad.

[neweurope]

81. I think you are... who organized the "orange revolution"?

Or the protests in Lebanon? A US PR-agency.

---------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[FreedomAngel82]

66. That's what really got me too

I don't remember Muslims in the past few years since 9/11 happened saying anything about 9/11. :shrug: Only people who use the 9/11 angle are the neocons. Remember Operation Mockingbird? Could this be like that?

[fujiyama]

140. The Muslim community here in the US

is quite different from that in the UK and Europe in general. There is a much larger segment of poorly assimilated, radical Muslims all over Europe.

This is NOT the first time Muslims in the UK have threatened to "unleash another 9/11" or violence in a protest. I recall a demonstration a while back (it might have been during the air strikes in Afghanistan or the begining of the Iraq war) where the protestors had similar signs making threats.

Plus if they did such a thing in the US, they would likely not last more than a few minutes.

It's ironic that they oppose free expression when someone writes a cartoon about their prophet, but at the same time, they use those same freedoms to make threats against the host nation.

Is this a situation of Countelpro? Maybe, but I doubt it. There are some real extremists out there as we've seen. These people may be a minority in the Muslim community, but they are defining the entire religion. I hope moderates will be able to take the religion back from these extremists.

[donco6]

72. I agree with you.

The placards seem to have similar language designed to inflame passions AGAINST the protestors. Why? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Yupster]

91. Maybe the radical who wrote them

spent the last few years in a US college?

Having one or two people spend all night making signs and then handing them out is not an unusual way to run a protest. It wasn't when I was in college anyway.

[donco6]

92. I'm not talking about the actual WRITING .. .

. . . though some have focused on that. They probably just had someone who knows English write out the signs.

I'm talking about the wording. Why write out signs that seem to purposely deflect any good feelings you might generate from your protest? Who was this sign writer? A MI5 plant? CIA? NSA?

God, I'm getting all tinfoily . . .

[Yupster]

101. Maybe he really

meant what he wrote?

It's possible.

[QC]

11. Signs in England are often written in English!

Shocking but true!

[CJCRANE]

12. It does seem like a set-up.

It'd be interesting to know who wrote those particular signs. Maybe the RW or the security services have infiltrated the group or there was some guy handing out placards and the gullibe idiots just took them.

The muslim groups need to get a clue and not take the bait when the RW stirs them up because in the end they will suffer more from the backlash.

[progdonkey]

14. let's see...

First, the photos are real and aren't photoshopped. Everyone who is holding a sign in that photo held that sign at the protests, and those signs had the messages on them (they're not photoshopped texts).

Second, ONE person hand-wrote all of those signs, and that person's English is perfect (with the exceptions of a corrected "butcher" and "it's" when they meant "its"--but a corrected missprint and misuse of "its" is not exactly uncommon).

I wouldn't be surprised if half of the people holding the signs had no clue what they said, or didn't know how different "exterminate" and "massacre" are from "kill." You're an immigrant, you think someone's been insulting your religion, you go to a protest, and someone hands you a poster and tells you it says something "standard" like "Down with Israel" or "Death to America" and not "Get Ready for the Real Holocaust." This, of course, is all just speculation, but's undeniable, though, that those posters all came from one source, and that source could easily have been intentionally trying to discredit the protests by passing out inflaming posters.

But, regardless of the first, the possibility remains that the people in those photos are plants--just because someone is dressed up like Hamas doesn't mean he's a member.

Lastly, even if those people are absolutely sincere and everyone knew exactly what their posters said and they simply got their friend with the best handwriting and best English to write the posters, the fact would remain that these people are just a bunch of Muslim Freepers and Protest Warriors: just crazy, pathetic nutjobs.

[tenshi816]

83. What makes you think the protestors are immigrants?

There are many, many British born Muslims. The July 7 bombers were British.

[progdonkey]

120. it was clearly a hypothetical...

I used it as a hypothetical to explain why these people all are waving really disgusting signs written by just one person. It was in fact a way of giving the protestors the benefit of the doubt for the moment that they maybe weren't completely aware of what the signs said. If they're simply British-born Muslims, then they must speak English pretty well, and no hypothetical excuse would be able to deny that they're just scum for waving those signs.

[Marie26]

15. It's all wrong

You're right, it's all in the same handwriting. And it's these pictures that made me go a little tin-foily on the Muhammad cartoon story. I bet anything those signs were written by an American. First of all, these protests are in Britain, the protestors are British residents. So why are the signs referring to 9/11? London had it's own huge terror attack last year & it's commonly referred to as 7/7. But none of the signs refer to that event - one that would have a lot more impact on British citizens. That's off. Second, why is the one man dressed in American fatigues & a beard to look like Bin Laden? Or a Palestinian terrorist? Finally, the language of the signs is very different from the other protests. Most signs are about what is angering them - "don't insult our prophet," etc. NONE of these signs actually refer to the drawings, instead they just make violent threats. That's off.

The signs are almost a parody, like what a Westerner would think Muslims would write. The words - butcher, exterminate, demolition, 9/11 - are most vicariously disturbing to Americans. And these images & words are perfectly positioned for the photos to be sent around the world & the USA. I don't doubt this was a real protest, but I think someone "helped" by distributing a lot of signs to a pissed-off crowd & let the media do the rest. And no, I have no other evidence. The whole thing is just off somehow. It feels fake.

Comparison to signs at another London protest in front of Danish embassy:

[neweurope]

19. I agree 100 %! "The signs are almost a parody, like what a

Westerner would think Muslims would write". My feelings exactly.

Also another poster who evidently watched the event on TV said the signs were all "normal" at the beginning of the demonstration until all of a sudden this group of people arrived. I am convinced that somebody is trying to put oil in the fire - to get the US population and MAINLY the Europeans ready for war.

I'm scared. Once they've shown pictures like those for a month - how many Europeans, do you think, will march against a war in Iran?

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. That is the purpose of this whole fiasco

to further divide and pit people against each other, in order for the US to get Europe on the expand the war to Iran bandwagon.

All of the signs have the same handwriting should be enough to set off the alarm bells that some black ops folks are behind this crap.

[truth2power]

59. Black ops. I think you're correct.

Look at the signs. All the Es are the same. All the As etc. Obviously the work of the same person, and here's the problem with that - making signs is extremely labor and time intensive, and putting that task on only one person is absurd.

Every protest I've ever participated in, there's a GROUP of people that meets the night before to make signs. Thus you would have different writing styles etc. Unless you make your own, which obviously wasn't the case, here.

Yeah, there's operatives in the mix somewhere!

[DoYouEverWonder]

61. Unfortunately it is so easy

to get the herd to follow.

You sprinkle a few disrupters around to key cities and you can have yourself riots in no time.

[FreedomAngel82]

71. If you haven't watch the film "Control Room"

In the film it shows a reporter from Al Jazeera. He talks about the toppling of the Saddam statue and how the middle eastern men who were apart of that WERE NOT Iraqi's. He could tell mostly because of the type of flag they were carrying. They were carrying an older Iraqi flag and they not long ago updated their flag. So wouldn't they have carried a new flag? These people were from a neighboring country. They also had a different dialect in their speech and it was just a small group. So could this be the same thing?

[malaise]

107. I had another question

Where would all these people in Muslim countries find all these Danish flags???

[neweurope]

129. Very good question :)

--------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[SmokingJacket]

78. I think you're right.

I, for one, am feeling set up.

My guess: all this "unrest" will culminate in a big event of some kind, a bombing perhaps -- one that will require a "response."

:scared:

[Henny Penny]

117. Yes. In my view this is about stiffening European reslove for war.

British intelligence have a long history of infiltrating protest groups and manipulating them for their own ends.

Remember CND?

[neweurope]

130. Evidently not - what does CND stand for?

(I do agree about British intelligence, though - but US and German and Italian intelligence are not much better, probably most Western intelligence agencies, unfortunately)

--------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Henny Penny]

135. Campaign for nuclear

disarmament.

They were an anti nuclear activist group but heavily infiltrated by British intelligence.

Perhaps I should say Western intelligence agencies.

[neweurope]

136. Here in Germany we had a "leftist" movement at the universities that was

founded by our intelligence. Sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

-------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[NJCher]

20. could you check that URL?

Your points are interesting and I also thought it a good idea to check other protests. Let's see what those signs look like.

Here's what the URL brings up:

Sorry, the page you requested was not found.

Please check the URL for proper spelling and capitalization. If you're having trouble locating a destination on Yahoo!, try visiting the Yahoo! home page or look through a list of Yahoo!'s online services. Also, you may find what you're looking for if you try searching below.





Cher

[NJCher]

22. you know what the handwriting of the signs reminds me of?

Graffitti that you see around northern NJ.




Cher

[Marie26]

24. Fixed picture URL

Thanks for pointing that out; the picture should be there now. It took me awhile to figure out how to post it!

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. They did chant about 7/7 too

The dispute spread to London for the first time. More than 500 people, led by the extremist group al-Ghuraba, formerly al-Mujahiroun, marched to the Danish embassy in Knightsbridge carrying banners calling on Muslims to "massacre" those who insult Islam and chanting: "Britain, you will pay, 7/7 on its way."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1702130,00.html

And I think there were posters like that too (possibly saying Denmark would gets its 7/7, or something like that), but searching for them on the Internet isn't so easy.

I would expect the man's beard is real. He's probably the kind of person who think dressing in fatigues makes him look hard. Yes, the al-Ghuraba group is extremist - al-Mujahiroun was the group who praised the 9/11 attacks. The mainstream Muslims says the Friday protest should have been stopped:

On Saturday, Asghar Bukhari, chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, said the demonstration in London on Friday should have been stopped by police because the group had been advocating violence.

He said the protesters "did not represent British Muslims".

Mr Bukhari told the BBC News website: "The placards and chants were disgraceful and disgusting, Muslims do not feel that way.

"I condemn them without reservation, these people are less representative of Muslims than the BNP are of the British people."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4682262.stm

[Marie26]

97. Thanks for the info

But if they were chanting that, why didn't the posters say that? Maybe we're all just overanalyzing this, & you're probably right that this is just a radical Muslim group. It's just hard to be sure of anything anymore.

[dysfunctional press]

43. "Islam says -don't insult other peoples' religion"...

um...does that include judaism? becuz i've seen some EXTREMELY anti-jewish cartoons in the arab press.

[FreedomAngel82]

69. So different aren't they?

And there no mention of 9/11. And yes very interesting how they're British people but don't mention 7/7. Not as many people have died but it's still a horrible event and would "hit home" more than 9/11. :shrug: The sayings on these signs compared to the others are so different. These are just like how our protest signs our. Just simple messages of non-violence. The others are all the same type of message and violence included. :shrug: And funny how we don't hear anything else from those "rioters" from the Newsweek article.

[Igel]

74. Not all long beards are done in

imitation of UBL. UBL's isn't done in imitation of UBL.

I'd also look at what the two groups are wearing. Different groups choose different rhetoric, esp. in different contexts.

I'd assume that a Social Worker's Party anti-war demonstration in front of a political convention would use rather different language from that held by a group of Quakers in front of the White House.

I'm left with no ground for judgment.

[NJCher]

96. the linguistic armchair detective notes....

Look at the sentence patterns of the two types of messages on the OP's pictures of the signs. There are two patterns and they interchange different words. It's almost like they used a thesaurus because they were making up signs in a hurry and they wanted them all to read differently. Here are the two patterns:

1. (insert inflammatory verb here) those who (insert inflammatory verb) Islam

_________ those who ___________ Islam.

and one with a "nursery rhyme" quality:

2. Europe, you will pay,
Your 9/11 is on its way

Let's take the first one and look at how they varied the words:

SLAY those who INSULT Islam
BUTCHER those who MOCK Islam
EXTERMINATE those who SLANDER Islam
MASSACRE those who INSULT Islam

Here's the nursery rhyme variation:

Europe, you will pay,
DEMOLITION is on its way

Europe, you will pay,
EXTERMINATION is on its way

(you) will pay,
(fan)TASTIC 4 is on its way

I think one person wrote these and wanted to make it look like there was variation in the messages. Now again, does that mean its PSYOPS? No, but it sure is interesting that they felt the need to vary the words. That's the key right there: there was a need to make the signs all look different.. Now who would have such a need? Why would they have the need to make the signs look different?

I suggest that whoever is organizing this is doing it to make this events look bigger than it is.

To Marie's posting of the photo with the other style of sign:

We have two sets of signs where one organizer has designed or written each set.

I don't know what to make of all this but I suggest we all bookmark this thread so we can come back to it at a later date. It could be quite significant. WTH, I think I'll even save the entire thread. One never knows about when the pics will be pulled at the news Web sites.




Cher

[Marie26]

134. More armchair detective work ....

I think your analysis is exactly right. Whoever wrote these signs really knew their stuff & knew how to write a sign that simply cannot be ignored. Advertising companies couldn't come up w/a more memorable slogan.

1. First off, the signs use different words but, like you say, they all have the same pattern. They all start out w/a violent, disturbing word - butcher, slay, exterminate. We have an instant, visceral psychological reaction to these types of words. It grabs our attention - and now we have to keep reading. "Wow, they want to slay people? Why??" The next phrases are variations on "those who insult Islam". It's an extremely large group. It isn't targeted at the cartoons, or the newspaper; but anybody who dares "insult Islam". It's written to say that we, all non-Muslims, are the real targets of the violent verbs before it. It is guaranteed to scare any Westerner.

2. The second group w/the sing-songy slogans. There's a reason so many ads use jingles - the rhymes make a message easier to read, and harder to forget. Poems are much easier to remember, for both the chanters & listeners. All these signs use a rhyme to make the message more memorable. And all use the same "target words" to draw the eye. EXTERMINATION, DEMOLITION. When you're looking across a crowd, these words catch & keep attention on the signs. It reels in people to read the message & the rhyme makes sure they don't forget it.

The slight variation & handwriting of the signs also helps reinforce the message. When all the signs are printed, you stop reading after the first one. (Like in the printed orange signs above.) You just assume they'll all be the same. But these signs are handwritten, giving the appearance of individual messages. Also, all the signs use different inflammatory verbs that catch the eye. This creates the appearance that the signs have different messages (though they're all really the same). This variation ensures that the reader will make the effort to read each individual sign, instead of dismissing them as a duplicate message. As you point out, the variation also helps to create the impression that these signs were created by many different people, instead of one single person.

All of these techniques ensure that these signs will be read, and remembered way after the demonstration is done. Normally I don't read all the signs in a protest crowd, but I sure read the signs in these pictures. You can't not read it. I don't think it's a coincidence that there are so many pictures circulating of this particular protest, as compared to other protests. These signs are designed to spark & keep media attention.

I guess it's possible that a protest group created these signs on their own, but the signs are so good at hitting our psychological hot buttons that I have to wonder. An angry mob is ridiculously easy to lead. You'd really only need one or two people to distribute the signs, or start a chant, and everyone else will go along. I'm just diving into the tinfoil on this one, but I do feel a sophisticated propaganda operation behind these deceptively simple signs. They're just not right. It gives me the same feeling I got from Bin Laden's new "taped message" - that there's an American mind behind these supposedly Islamic messages. I really do hope we're wrong about this, though.

[oblivious]

16. Yes, I learned my lesson quickly when I started attending anti-war demos.

Bring your own signs. There always seem to be well-organised groups with loads of signs they want to put in people's hands, which may not have the message you wanted to make, but which fit their often very narrow agenda.

These were prepared by a well-organised group, wanting to take maximum advantage of the anger.

Good catch.

[rucky]

17. Violent signs at a peaceful protest?

If they meant it, wouldn't they just BE violent?

just another something strange about it.

[JCMach1]

18. Makes you wonder whether they were made by the art deparment

at CNN, MSNBC, or Al Jazeera

[neweurope]

26. They were probably made by the same company that organized

the protests at the "Orange Revolution". A US company, forgot the name, working for the US government. They were (probably are) very busy in Lebanon, too.

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Marie26]

27. Rendon?

PR firm w/many ties to the Bush Adm.; received contract to create PR for war with Iraq, responsible for creating the "Iraqi National Congress" & orchestrating the demonstration destroying Saddam's statue.

[neweurope]

28. Yes, I think that was them!

------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Nimrod2005]

29. Make no mistake about it - The US does have strong influence in events

throughout the world --- I am not saying the CIA wrote these signs or anything...But yes, events, demonstrated by man made images, is usually planned, and presentd to you on daily basis.

[BlueEyedSon]

30. Maybe there is just one guy who has a magic marker?

[wookie294]

32. The demo took place in England

One of the photos shows a "bobby" (an English cop), so it makes sense the writings are in English. The demo was probably very small (it looks like about 15 to 20 people). So, probably one or two guys made the signs for this small demonstration. And most of the people at the demo probably speak English most of the time since they live in England.

[tenshi816]

87. Are you kidding?

This demonstration had more than 500 people, not 15 or 20.

The reason the signs were in English is that the people who wrote them were most likely British Muslims, plus if they hadn't been written in English they would have been meaningless to most of their target audience.

Why do so many people think there are only a few Muslims who were born in the UK?

Edited for clarity.

[wookie294]

114. Uhm

Why do so many people think there are only a few Muslims who were born in the UK?

Because there are only a few Muslims who were born in the UK, relative to the rest of the British-born population. Prove that 500 people were at the demo. I don't see any info to suggest that.

[tenshi816]

119. Well, I've seen photographs

and video footage taken from overhead on the TV news, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Or are you going to question whether I actually live in the UK and watch the news and read newspapers?

You're in California. How can you possibly know everything that's shown on the news in the UK?

Edited to say that there are far more than a "few" British born Muslims. What a ridiculous thing to say.

Edited again to provide this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4139594.stm You'll notice that it says of young Muslims in the article "56% of our young people are born British and the only country they know of is England, the United Kingdom".

56% is more than a "few".

[panzerfaust]

33. Is just too wonderful ...

... Slay/Butcher/Kill/Behead those who slander Islam by saying it is a violent religion?

Why are the three major (at least semi-)monotheistic religions so savage and violent? Is it something to do with the deserts where they all originated?

Feel the love ...

Old Testament (sacred to all three Abrahamic religions – and scary to the rest of us) Exo 32:26

Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

New Testament Mat:10:34

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Al-Qur'an 9:5

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free.

Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

... at least he is as long as he gets his way. Sound like any other god you know?

Is it not time to cast aside the xenophobic, self-centered, savage and childish beliefs of the remote past?

[malaise]

34. Good spot

The delay in the responses is also troubling.

[Clark2008]

36. Psstt... they're not "Islamic" protestors. They're Muslim.

The adjective to describe someone who follows Islam is "Muslim."

I know, I know. Just like "anti-Semitic" allegedly only means someone who's anti-Jewish, the word "Islamic" has become popular in our culture, but it's really NOT accurate. Pet peeve.

[sam sarrha]

41. Isn't a peve, its a BIG deal, GOD gave them that special name during one

the Prophets 'Channeling' events to make them special in the eyes of others and their own minds

[BlueEyedSon]

45. You mean they're NOT Islamacists or Mohammedians? Dang!

:)

[wtmusic]

76. whatever

dictionary.com says they're synonymous. Take it up with them.

[Yupster]

94. Let's ask the angry mob about it

Will you burn down more buildings if we refer to the followers of the religion of peace as Islamic or Muslims?

[Benbow]

38. This is a very peculiar thread - the pictures were from the UK

Look at the policeman on the lefthand side of the first image, in his helmet and reflective jacket. That's a British policeman's uniform. I can guess that the posters were delegated to one person to make and then handed out at a mosque. What earthly use would posters written in Arabic be, when English is the linga franca of the entire world and the demonstration is taking place in Britain?

And to those who try to make capital out of the violent words and mock them for not being true Mohammedans - well, tell me what the US is doing in Iraq, and Israel is doing to the Palestinians: slaying, massacring, butchering.

Anyway, those people carrying posters whose message breaks the law in the UK are going to be prosecuted in the normal way. These protesters are, of course, extremely lucky that they will be subject to the due process of British - not American - law.

[sam sarrha]

39. that is England there's a radical Mosk there, it is probably just 10 people

making a big deal out of a small group of highly excitable people, that is why there is all close ups

[kittynboi]

47. 15 or 16

Thats all I can count in the pics. Without wider shots its impossible to tell how large it was.

[tenshi816]

88. You haven't seen the overhead shots

we've seen in the UK. There were a lot of people there.

[LSK]

55. has England published the cartoons yet?

[Hatalles]

112. Are you sure that's the UK?

Aren't these AP photos? I thought I had seen them before and remember something about being outside the embassies over in the ME...

[BooScout]

115. I'm sure....

I saw them on the news in the UK.

[Earth_First]

42. I agree that something is not right either,

however, it could also be perfectl right at the same time. If by chance, which seems to be the case, this is premeditated propaganda, it's obvious intent is two fold: make the Muslims in participation into the barbaric, savage, creatures that many in Amerika would have you belive. However secondly, it's ultimate use, in my opinion, is to alienate non Muslim individuals who sympathize with the anti-war stance in the Middle East. In my opinion, if this was perfectly placed propaganda, this does far worse to the individuals who WILL be painted as fundamentalist sympathizers than it does for the individuals in physical attendance of this demonstration.

It's all a part to coincide with the mass round-up of "sympathizers"

[dailykoff]

44. Yes it looks like a Kuwaiti chorus line

hired by CIA central casting. Typical.

[Strong Atheist]

48. More hate and violence brought to you by the "religion of

peace":eyes:

[mainer]

51. These protestors are a godsend for Bush and Tony

It reawakens the world's paranoia about western civilization being under siege. An effective way to convince the US and UK that invading another Muslim nation is a great idea.

[neweurope]

60. They are probably being payed by them.

---------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Straight Shooter]

52. Nice how they have a good close-up photo of the demonstration.

I wonder what sort of effect it would have if the photographer were to stand, say, 50 feet away. Would we then see just a small group of people surrounded by lots of space and perhaps a few people glancing their way.

These people do not help their religion, but then again, extremists seldom do.

[tenshi816]

93. The news reports here (in the UK)

are saying the demonstration had more than 700 people. It's been on television and the radio here, as well as in the newspapers. I've seen the overhead shots - this was not a small gathering.

[Straight Shooter]

99. Not a small gathering.

But what percentage of the overall Muslim population? Do you think the 700 people showing up is a very bad sign, or do you think the greater percentage of Muslims will be able to calm them down?

Thanks for the clarification. I get so used to photographers playing mind games ...

[Hatalles]

113. You're right. We also get crazies at our anti-Bush protests too...

nt

[tenshi816]

118. I don't know.

I wish I did but I don't.

Britain has a large Muslim population. Most of them are normal, sensible people, going about their daily lives the same as you or I so, quietly and peacefully, and would in no way condone violence. I'm hoping that cool heads will prevail in the end but I admit I'm uneasy (in no small part due to the fact that I live about 15 miles from Bradford, West Yorkshire, which has the largest percentage, per capita, of Muslims in the UK - Bradford is already known for racial riots and I'd hate to see that situation become worse than it already is). This latest will die down but sooner or later something else will happen. It's inevitable, particularly as long as there are British troops in Iraq. The war isn't the root cause of the problem, but it sure hasn't helped any.

Another piece of the puzzle is that some young British Muslims identify with being "Muslim" before they self-identify as "British"; to them, religion trumps nationality every time. Muslim extremist groups, like Hizbut Ha'tir, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Saviour Sect and Al-Muhajiroun feed on the alienation of confused young people and use inflammatory rhetoric to win them over to their cause. These groups have no use for non-Muslims and see it as their duty to force the rest of the world to turn to Islam, either voluntarily or by force. The fact that it will never happen doesn't mean they'll give up on what they see as their righteous obligation.

All of the groups I mentioned are anti-moderate, homophobic, sexist, anti-Semitic and, according to an interview I read once with Al-Muhajiroun's leader, Anjem Choudry - sorry, it was in a newspaper a couple of years ago and I don't have a link - are determined to see "the flag of Islam flying over Downing Street".

Al-Muhajiroun supposedly broke up last year, but just because the group isn't "official" anymore doesn't mean it's not still active under a new name - a new extremist group calling itself Ahl ul-Sunnah Wa al-Jamma started up last November, led by one Simon "Sulayman" Keeler, one of Anjem Choudry's followers (and a convert to militant Islam). At the time of Ahl ul-Sunnah Wa al-Jamma's "launch", Keeler gave a speech in which he said that the Queen was an "enemy of Islam", which I found bizarre at the time (again, I read this in the newspapers - I'll see if I can find a link online since it was only a few months ago). Ahl ul-Sunnah Wa al-Jamma claims to have a thousand members, but its core group is comprised of the same people who were in Al-Muhajiroun.

Here are a couple of older articles about militant Muslim groups in Britain that you might find interesting:

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=484

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3670007.stm (This is an interview from 2004 with some Al-Muhajiroun members, including Simon Sulayman Keeler.)

I know what you mean about photographers playing mind games, but I find the British papers (except for the tabloids!) less likely to do that. In fact, even the tabloids tell the truth from time to time.

Edited to say that I did find a link about Ahl ul-Sunnah Wa al-Jamma: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4449714.stm

[Straight Shooter]

122. Thank you for the somewhat alarming but educational info.

It's always the young men they try to grab, isn't it? All religions, all strident causes grab them, because young men are pumped full of testosterone, filled with energy and, unfortunately for many of them, nowhere to direct it constructively, or at least not in a manner that satisfies this strange urge to express rage that seems so rampant.

Have these people ever considered that, even in a million years, no matter what religion would ever dominate the world, it wouldn't matter one whit? Violence will continue, human conflict will continue, power-grabs will continue, emotional and mental and physical pain will be with us always because we never stop and work together as a global unit. A single dominant religion will never solve global problems, because no single religion resonates with everyone. Human beings are simply not made that way.

[tenshi816]

124. Well said.

Edited to correct some information in my post that you replied to - Bradford, West Yorkshire (according to Wikipedia) actually has the fourth highest percentage of Muslims in the UK, not the first. According to Wikipedia Bradford is 16% Muslim, but I have read elsewhere it's as high as 19%. I graduated from the University of Bradford in 2003 and at that time the student population was in excess of 20% Muslim.

This has nothing to do with the demonstrations this weekend - I just don't like posting inaccurate information.

[Straight Shooter]

125. Wikipedia is not always accurate.

Just so you'll know. ;)

Your interpretation of the percentage based on your personal experience is probably a more reliable indicator.

[LincolnMcGrath]

53. PROPAGANDA from powers that be.

[bvar22]

54. Right Wing Fundamentalists lack creativity....

Their country of origin doesn't matter.
Marching in adolescent lockstep is comforting to those who don't think for themselves.

Observe a USA Pro-Fundamentalism (Pro-Republican) rally and notice how few members are capable of thinking for themselves, designing and making a sign for themselves.

[enki23]

56. dupe

.

[enki23]

57. probably because the same person created them.

these are photos of the same bunch of people from different angles. all told, i can only see a max of 8 different signs. not exactly a long day's work. and what's that bit about the fantastic 4

[Tom Bombadil]

139. Fantastic 4

is a reference to the 4 London Tube bombers of July 7th 2005.

[Deja Q]

58. One hippy from the 1960s may have made a bunch of picket signs too.

I don't know.

Sometimes a cake is just a cake.

Though why is the first one so cowardly she has to wrap a Gingham-style cloth napkin around his face? None of the other protestors is...

I will admit the grammar used in those signs is pretty good.

I dunno; could go either way.

But how much of it is hyperbole over who made the signs? It could be as much an unrelated third party trying to stir up trouble as it is somebody official. Reynolds wrap doesn't have a monopoly on tinfoil, you know. :D (Besides, remember the booing at the Wellstone memorial. That seemed to be done by a shameless brat rather than anyone official...)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

62. I gotta say, that is a hell of a catch and the more I look at the signs

the more I'm wondering WTF???? Why did the same person write on all of them?? Do the muslims holding the signs even know what was written on them?

Pretty obvious the same person did it. The "S" is a dead giveaway in all of em.

[FreedomAngel82]

63. Makes one wonder

I remember there were protests before with something after that Newsweek article and they all had the EXACT SAME writing as in these protests. Anybody know what I'm talking about and have a picture to compare?

[FreedomAngel82]

67. Remember Operation Mockingbird?

Could it be something like that?

[satya]

68. Sounds like the work of Rummy's P2OG group to provoke "terrorists"

Sourcewatch: Proactive Preemptive Operations Group

Proposal: P2OG

* "One hundred 'highly specialized people with unique technical and intelligence skills such as information operations, PSYOP, network attack, covert activities, SIGINT, HUMINT, SOF, influence warfare/deception operations' could constitute a new, elite Proactive Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG),' reporting to the National Security Council with an annual budget of $100 million.

"The proposal is the latest sign of a new assertiveness by the Defense Department in intelligence matters, and an indication that the cutting edge of intelligence reform is not to be found in Congress but behind closed doors in the Pentagon." <4> (http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/2002/10/102802.html)

* One way to invigorate U.S. intelligence would be to "Develop an entirely new capability to proactively, preemptively evoke responses from adversary/terrorist groups," according to the DSB. Such an approach would "improve information collection by stimulating reactions" from the target <5> (http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/2002/10/102802.html) ... which is to say, provoke the terrorists into action. See Counterpunch article (http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd1101.html).

* Look Out! Here Comes P2OG (http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/2002_11.html), Alternet.org, November 5, 2002: "The Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG) -- as described in an internal briefing drafted this summer to guide other Pentagon agencies -- would carrry out 'secret operations' aimed at 'stimulating reactions' among terrorists and states possessing weapons of mass destruction -- that is, for instance, prodding terrorist cells into action and exposing themselves to 'quick-response' attacks by U.S. forces.' Wait a minute -- prod terrorists into action?! Hello again, Dr. Strangelove.... And just to make sure that we lose international support altogether, the brief declares the U.S. will hold 'states/sub-state actors accountable' and 'signal to harboring states that their sovereignty will be at risk.' That is sure to play well with the rest of the world."

[Marie26]

127. Scary stuff

"that is, for instance, prodding terrorist cells into action and exposing themselves to 'quick-response' attacks by U.S. forces."

You mean like setting 20 Al-Queda terrorists free in Yemen and seeing where they go? That'd be a pretty good way to find any hiddden terror cells in the Mideast, or to finally find Bin Laden. :tinfoilhat:

[_TJ_]

73. How would it be if I made some signs...

And walked around in Tehran with them:

Butcher those who worship Allah!
Muslims will pay - their death is on its way!
slay those who worship Allah!
massacre all those who are Muslim!

We'd see how long I'd stay alive...

Yet we are expected to respect these lunatics who
hate us and all we stand for? Fuck them all.
Encitement to violence is a crime in most sane
countries. It's jail time for these idiots I
hope!

[neweurope]

132. I wouldn't mind if they were jailed.Then maybe we'd find out who payed

them...


---------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[abex]

75. check out the guy done up like fidel. it's pushing all our buttons

[mirandapriestly]

77. I get the feeling that someone else is behind this

it has an intelligence operation written all over it. I don't think that Muslims are really like that in any part of their normal population. This happened to cause people to form a negative opinion of them, even my husband fell for it.

[McCamy Taylor]

80. Neo-cons want muslims to look violent as excuse to exterminate them

all. They are on a mission to commit muslim genocide, clear out the middle east so that white men can take over the oil fields. Israel is being used as a target to fuel muslim hatred, but Israel will not end up with the power, a bunch of christian Americans and Europeans will.

[No Exit]

85. It would not surprise me in the least.

[Yollam]

90. Doesn't mean that the demonstrators aren't real...

but it does indicate that one person or entity is trying to coordinate the message. Not much more you can really deduce from the pix.

It is an interesting point to consider though.

That's the sucky thing with media today. You never know what's a psyop.

[applegrove]

95. It means they are well organized. Cause one group or person came

up with all the "talking points"

[Odin2005]

98. Conspiracy? Oh, please.

More likely the signs were made by the people who organized the protest.

[neweurope]

133. Think again. And read up about the Bologna train massacre.

"Operation gladio".

---------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vidar]

103. Good call.

[smartvoter]

104. Looks like the same person wrote all the signs. (English because UK). nt

[file83]

106. It's not just the handwriting - look at how the signs are made...

They are ALL on the SAME type of paper taped onto cardboard in EXACTLY the same fashion. Goto an American protest - if they are handwritten signs - they are usually all different - maybe 1 or 2 are similar if friends made them - but this is ridiculous because each guy is different in the photos. Half these guys probably don't even know what the signs say.

:patriot: :tinfoilhat: :patriot:

[jsamuel]

108. Reminds me of the Saddam statue...

[breakfastofchampions]

109. I thought the same thing

I must say it does concern me.

[Bluebear]

111. "Massacre. Butcher. Slay. Exterminate. Demolish."

Did central casting miss any frightening exhortations?

[BooScout]

116. Your conspiracy theory is all for naught....

Thosw pics are from London.

[LSK]

128. the cartoons were not published in England as far as I know

Why protests there?

[tenshi816]

138. Because there are some well-organised

extremist groups here in the UK.

Because there are British troops in Iraq.

Because the international furor over the cartoons gave the extremists an excuse to demonstrate.

This has been going on over here regularly for years on a smaller scale, with militant imams calling for the destruction of the US and Britain. It's nothing new.

[LSK]

141. key word being "extremists"

[tenshi816]

142. Absolutely.

I did my degree at a university in the UK that has upwards of 20% Muslim students (and fairly recently too - I graduated in 2003) and I worked closely with quite a few them while I was there. The majority of Muslims are just like non-Muslims, wanting more or less the same things in life and living normal, peaceful lives. They're just regular people, not terrorists. The extremists, because they're loud and organised despite being in the minority, tend to make people forget this.

For the record, there were some militants at my university - Al-Mijahiroun had a student chapter until the National Union of Students banned them. A couple of weeks after 9/11, I sat down in a lecture hall and saw the words "Al-Quaeda will kill you all" carved very deeply into the desktop where I was sitting. Later that same week I saw a notice on a student bulletin board inviting Muslim students to attend a lecture series (off campus) - the subject of which purported to explain why 9/11 and violence against non-Muslims was justified. After complaints from students and faculty members, the notices were taken down.

[dailykoff]

121. The guy in the fluffy ski jacket looks particularly sinister. (n/t)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

123. Umm...

First of all, protesters in the middle east frequently have signs in English. Why? Because this is for consumption by western audiences, and English is widely spoken in many European countries and is certainly the only language that cuts it in the US. They aren't stupid. They know their target audience. As for the fonts being the same, the obvious answer is that they prepared the signs en masse, in advance of the protest. In fact, the likelier explanation is that their governments prepared and provided the signs.


Could this be more PROPAGANDA from the MSM and the powers that be?

If by the "powers that be" you mean the governments of Syria, etc, then yes.

[ComerPerro]

131. Two things I noticed: Their grammar is poor, and they used a Thesaurus

Slay those who insult Islam
Massacre those who insult Islam
Exterminate those who slander Islam
Butcher those who mock Islam


Oops... Now it seems that I am mocking/slandering/insulting them. I hope they don't slay/massacre/exterminate/butcher me.

[helderheid]

137. anthrax envelopes