Nobody Wants War

[cali]

Nobody likes war. Bullshit. One of the biggest lies we tell ourselves. Humans are a reactionary bunch, and aggression is hardwired into us. Not to mention all those who profit from war. And another lie: All our troops are heroes. CBS has this Fallen Heroes thing they do on their nightly news perpetuating this absurdity. Of course they're not all heroes. What they are is human- and fallible, susceptible to all the emotions that arise in war and lead to atrocities.

Sorry about the irrelevant rant.

[OneBlueSky]

1. well, BushCo certainly wants war . . .

as do the "defense" contractors and other multinationals who make billions and billions of dollars from the enterprise . . . to some people, war is not just a good thing -- it's the only thing . . .

and the rest of us pay the price . . .

[atreides1]

3. Yes BushCo Wants War

And the US military will once again allow themselves to be used as cannon fodder. The corporations will rake in billions of dollars, tens of thousands of innocents will die, and this country will
get closer to being the 21st Century version of Nazi Germany.

The politicians won't save the trops, we the people, at least the die hard BushCo fans want them to keep dying, and the rest of us are powerless to do anything. That means the US military can only save itself from being destroyed, as long as they continue to follow this emperor without question,
then they have only themselves to blame.

[MADem]

4. You got that right--the fat bastards who don't have to GO love it

...especially if there is money, obscene profit, to be made. It totally sucks....

[Delphinus]

13. You're so right!

This man is wanting to take the whole world on!

Have you seen the movie, "Why We Fight"? It's all about the defense industry and how it has its hands everywhere. They would be nothing if we lived in peace.

[Punkingal]

2. I agree with you.

I remember reading a Robert E. Lee quote, "It is a good thing war is so terrible, else we would grow too fond of it." The sad thing is, so many of these bullies in the Bush administration know nothing about it first hand, so they have no frame of reference for just how awful it is. Not that they would care if they did, anyway.

I also have a problem with the "Hero" title. A young man from my hometown was killed, and there are signs all over the place "Our hometown hero," and I confess they drive me nuts. Not because I don't grieve for his death, but because I see his death as a tragedy and a waste, and a sad thing. I take no comfort from a sign calling him a hero. He was a nice kid, and he wanted to serve, and he came back in a box as a result of an IED. It's just sad.

[MADem]

6. Our Hometown Victim, is probably more appropriate

Because the poor bastard is a victim of the fer-shit policies of this crazy bunch in charge....

[atreides1]

8. We can no longer blame just the Chickenhawks

Yes the bullies giving the orders for the most part do not know what it's like, but what about the generals and admirals in the Joint Chiefs, they know what it's about!!! What about the generals commanding the troops, most of them know what war is about, why don't they try leading, instead of
following like lemmings over a cliff?

We can no longer just assign blame to the civilian part of this administration, the blame must be shared by the ass kissers in uniform as well.

As far as the "Hero" title goes, a hero is someone who does something above the norm, who goes above and beyond, being a former soldier there is very little that is "heroic" about following orders, because that is what's expected of all men and women in uniform.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. If we didn't like war

we wouldn't have them. Aren't there something like 20 wars going on at any given time? I've forgotten the statistic, but it is amazing..and telling.

We are a warring species. And if you beieve in evolution (as I do) then there must be some reason for it. How do we benefit as a species from wars?

[cali]

7. Great question.

Perhaps it originally had something to do with territorial imperative, keeping numbers in check due to scarce resources.

[rman]

10. question is, who exactly is "we"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=327303&mesg_id=327451

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. Good point

to me, "We" is all of us: the young cannon fodder we send, all the way up to the masters of war, and back again to the folks who "support the troops."

[rman]

16. Then we disagree:

War always starts with people who have the most to gian, then they put a lot of effort into creating sufficient popular support, more often then not using false arguments (such as Iraqi babies thrown out of incubators - a story that later turned out to be a complete fabrication, yet was it the drop that made bucket overflow).

By far most of "we" do not want war.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. But the species as a whole

celebrates war. Of course, there are always individuals who have moved past it, but then as pacifist as I am, I think I could be led (by the very folks you are talking about) into a warlike mode. I was there after 9/11.

But we can agree to disagree.

Do you think we can ever move past this unfortunate predilection?

[rman]

23. There are far more people who hate war then there are people who

"celebrate" war.

If lies are necessary to get the people into warlike mode, then in effect the people don't like war.

[abex]

20. i like the occassional conflict, can be healthy, but i do not like wars

[rman]

9. "The People" have never started war

It's always the leaders, under preasure from big capital, in turn backup up by large financial institutions.

Of course there are always a very vocal few amongst the population who do want war.

1809 - Thomas Jefferson, The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

[Hubert Flottz]

14. Over half the people in the US were all for invading Iraq in 2003.

In 2004 more than half the people voted for the gangsters who started this war in Iraq, based on lies and in doing so, they voted for the crooks and liars who swore they would "Stay The Course!" Provided Diebold didn't cheat!(Ha Ha)

I had a highly educated and very well off, right winger tell me that, "War Is Good For Business, It Keeps People Working." This man was one of the people who had gone to Russia after the fall of the USSR and helped the Russian government develop their new "Capitalistic State!" The man has millions in the offshore banks and STILL thinks Bush walks on water. In the last chat we had he was telling me all kinds of things that Ann Coulter had said, like Ann was somebody who really knew anything, or that one could believe. I'd always thought the man was bright, but I know now how stupid he really is. He has a son who is just the right age to get drafted and I can't understand why the kid isn't in Iraq fighting for capitalism now, other than the fact that like the father who skated out of doing time in the service during Vietnam, the son also thinks, that poor people's kids should do all the fighting and dying for their country. For folks who think war is such a good idea, these GOPers sure do shy away, when it comes to putting their own asses on the battle line.

[rman]

17. Popular support created by means of lies

If deception is necessary to convince us we need war, then in effect we do not really want war.
It's just that we're stupid to trust our government.

[leesa]

11. Lot's of people make lots of money off war too. Whole cities and states

depend on war for their survival. I'm from the Southwest, San Diego in particular, we like war...makes the wheels go round!

[LWolf]

12. Many people want war. They thrive on it.

Bullies thrive on it. Physically conquering others is a way to raise their status in spite of their abysmally low self-esteem.

When we were preparing to go to war on Iraq, I stood on a (then) local street corner every Friday night with about 6 other people that we could find in a population of 250,000 that didn't want to go to war. We held signs opposing the action in Iraq. We were regularly pelted with interesting items by men roaring with laughter and screaming "WE WANT WAR" as they drove by. They were a pretty good representation of the local sentiment; everybody wanted to go "kick some ass." It's the bully mentality moved off of the school grounds; it's the gang mentality moved off of the streets. It's ugly. It's shameful. And it's real.

[killbotfactory]

19. If you take the profit out of war

there will be no more war.

The people who have to fight don't want war.
The people in charge see it as one more means of getting what they want.

[cali]

21. I suggest you read

"War is a force that gives us meaning" by Chris Hedges. As he points out War can be addictive to the warrior. Quite often the people who have to fight, want to fight.

[SmokingJacket]

22. "War Is a Force that Gives us Meaning"

Title of a very wise book...