Who do you feel is the worst Democratic US Senator after Sen Ben Nelson

[rpannier]

The Weasel Award is in and Senator Ben Nelson D-NE was far and away the winner -- a Whopping 82% of the time he votes with the pukies on key pieces of legislation -- The next closest is at 38% (Mary Landrieu).
Even with that...I'm curious as to who you think is the greatest impediment to Our Party after Sen Nelson. The first four mentioned are the runners-up (in order).

[billbuckhead]

1. So why have you put Hillary on the list?

What did you hate about the 8 years of peace and prosperity under Clintonism? Are you for burning the flag and kids video games with sex with "ho's" as a reward? I don't get this gratutitous criticism of Hillary, it reeks of sexism. Mary Landrieu and Diane Feinstein shouldn't be on the list either.

[rpannier]

2. The key part of my question was "...the Greatest Impediment..."

i.e. Which of the following (after Nelson) hinders the Party nationally from creating a cohesive plan of action of Key issues. While I'm not a supporter of Hillary's, I am also not one of her detractors. But, does her positions on subjects like Iraq hinder the Party? Unlike say, Sen Akaka of Hawaii or Sen Carper DE, she is a prominent National Figure as is Feinstein, Lieberman, and the like that did not make the weasel list. That's why I picked her, as well as Feinstein, Leiberman and Biden.
Landreu is on the list because she made the runner up list on the weasel award. She is second after Nelson in voting with the pukes on Key Issues. Sorry if you feel that women should automatically be exempted from the list. Kinda reeks of sexism on your part -- IMHO

[billbuckhead]

4. So Hillary wasn't even on the list and you added her

but not Shumer who votes just like her? Tell me what Hillary's position is on Iraq and how does it differ from Wes Clark's or John Kerry's?

[rpannier]

11. Hillary is probably the most prominent figure in the Senate from the Party

Therefore, her position on Key Issues carries more weight than many other Dems. As to her record versus Kerry, she votes more times with the Pukes than Kerry does on key issues. As to Wes Clark...well, he's not even in the Senate so I don't feel the need to comment because he can't be on the list.
As to my original comment I thought she would have been a runner-up -- she wasn't. So what? I thought Lieberman and Salazar would have been on it too. They weren't. I don't know why you aren't angry at me for including those two as well. The list has nine names, the Weasel award had one winner and four runner ups. I decided, based on their monthly awards, to add other name and let other people decide.

[billbuckhead]

34. I think you're trashing Hillary for no good reason

I just wonder what the motivation is?

[rpannier]

39. Actually I'm not trashing Hillary

I'm going to run through the talking points of many DUers. Hillary, Joe L, Diane and Joe B are all BAAAAAD people. They are DINOs. They screw the party all the time.
Yet the facts don't bare that out.
Hillary, Joe L, Joe B and Diane were chosen because their voting records do not bear out this myth that they are horrible Democrats. Actually, except for Nelson, none of them are terrible -- In my opinion.
I picked the first four names because they were the runner ups for the weasel awards: http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2005/12/2005-senate-weasel-of-year-award_29.html

I picked Salazar because he's won the monthly award a few times.

I picked the other four because they get trashed the most on DU and they are four of the most nationally prominent Democrats out there. When they act or say something it's an instant headline. I have noticed from the voting and opinions that Joe Lieberman is still considered the greatest impediment and on Iraq he probably is. But there are many issues out there. And most of the time these four people (Hillary, Joe L, Joe B and Diane) as well as the weasel runner ups are with us.

On edit: I apologise for my subject line. I should have chosen a better title for my poll. I do apologise for that.

[...of J.Temperance]

6. A cohesive plan of action on key issues...what you mean like

Senator Clinton and Senator Landrieu, voting consistently to support pro-choice issues, voting consistently to support protecting Social Security, voting consistently to support educational issues, voting consistently to support gay rights issues, voting consistently to support a progressive taxation policy, voting consistently to support healthcare issues...these are what I think are key issues.

Yes Iraq is a mess, yes Iraq should never have happened, yes it was wrong and ill-advised going into Iraq...however there are equally important issues, equally important key issues...some of which I've mentioned in the paragraph above this one.

Also Senator Landrieu is nothing like Ben Nelson, I don't care what list gives her what points, Landrieu and Bill Nelson don't even belong in the same sentence.

On Edit: Added another key issue.

[Crazy Dave]

10. Hillary is worst than Bush when it comes to "scripted" interviews.

With Hillary, she tells you what questions to ask. She is very well protected and won't even consider saying anything on TV without a doing poll first. Next to Lieberman, she's a conservative in Democrat clothing who was once president of the "Young Republicans" and a board member for six years at Wal-Mart.

Anything she has to do to get power and to stay in power.

[H2O Man]

15. Baloney.

That is simply so far from the truth that it can only show either complete ignorance or purposeful distortion. I've met her twice, and have witnessed interviews with the media, and there was not a hint of these interviews being scripted. She is perfectly capable of taking tough questions and giving tough answers. Perhaps you have her confused with your president.

[Crazy Dave]

23. Get some therapy dude 'cause

Bush is not my president. Watch for Hillary to get lost in Dean or Edward's dust in '08

My president, what a bunch of crap! Go call YOUR young republican, tell her what I said and tell her that she's in 2nd place behind Lieberman the poll lover that she is.
:rofl:

[...of J.Temperance]

26. Hillary was a Young Republican when she was a teenager

Which was a long time ago...so I think that people such as you need to like GET OVER IT!!!!

[Crazy Dave]

32. Agreed!

I'm a recovering, ex Reagan republican myself but nobody can sugar coat or cover up her voting record.

[...of J.Temperance]

36. What her voting record on Health, Social Security, abortion

Civil Rights, education and such.

You people really make me laugh about Hillary's "voting record". She's got a damn good voting record...so what she voted for IWR so what she's co-sponsoring some burning the flag amendment, these are just TWO issues.

I tend to look at the big picture, Hillary votes 90% of the time with the party that she belongs too, MY party, the Democratic Party.

Maybe you'd prefer a full-on Republican Senator representing New York eh?

[H2O Man]

42. Well Dave

your description of Hillary, which at best indicates you either are ignorant of the truth about her interviews with the media, or are purposely putting something not true on here, is actually a description of your president. It is not true as far as Clinton goes. It's utter nonsense, and it seems odd that rather than deal with that little falsehood being exposed, you go to the next line of baloney.

[Crazy Dave]

52. Well Mr.H2O Man....

...she's still in 2nd place according to our DU members. I do sincerely apologize to you though if you are in fact not a supporter of her. Of that I have no excuse, guilty as charged, as I've said before, we don't know each other and one of my pet-peeves as I'm sure it is with you, is false assumptions against individuals, not public figures.
When I disagree with an individual on here, instead of just saying..."duh...you're just a Bush supporter" I prefer just to tell them that I disagree with them and why.

You and J. have a great day and hopefully our next discussion will be against the current administration which I can guarantee we'll probably be on the same side then. :hi:

[H2O Man]

18. I am offended by her

stance on the burning the flag, but that surely does not mean that I endorse flag burning. I would hope that those who support Hillary do not rely upon cheap tactics, such as implying one favors flag burning, when they take a stance against her position on that issue.

I would agree that there is a fair amount of sexism involved in the opposition to her. However, it would be wrong to attempt to say that all opposition to her is sexist. I would vote for her if she did become the democratic candidate in '08, but I find her position on Iraq extremely troubling. I have stopped sending her financial contributions because of her stance on the war.

[tabasco]

57. Oh I see.

If you are for free speech, you must enjoy flag burning.

Maybe you belong on another board.

[...of J.Temperance]

3. Senator Mary Landrieu is my favorite Senator

I think Senator Landrieu is fab!!

There is no worst Senator after Ben Nelson, he's literally in a league of his own, now that Zell Miller has retired.

[rpannier]

5. I agree...Nelson is in a League of his own

I guess he felt someone had to fill Zell's shoes after he left.
But, as I said in my remarks...Acoording to the weasel awards Sen Landrieu voted with the pukes on Key issues 19 out of 50 times. I put her up there along with Conrad, Baucus, Pryor because they were the four runner ups. I have no beef with Ms. Landrieu per se. But, that's how she made the list. Hope that helps.

[...of J.Temperance]

13. Well that means that Senator Landrieu votes

With our side on key issues 31 times out of 50. The glass is either half empty or half full...I'd rather think that the glass is half full.

I cannot stand Ben Nelson.

I don't know about these lists anyhow, who actually complies these things?

[Teaser]

7. Don't have a problem with Ben Nelson

so much because, although he will vote conservatively on a bunch of issues, he does not ATTACK OTHER DEMOCRATS the way Lieberman does, which is far more hurtful to the party.

Given Nelson's geography, he has to vote the way he does, but at least he doesn't demigrate the party.

[...of J.Temperance]

9. Ben Nelson needs to just join the GOP...he never votes with our side

We don't have Ben Nelson's vote anyhow...so we'd be missing nothing if he just joined the GOP.

Senator Blanche Lincoln, Senator Mark Pryor, Senator Mary Landrieu, Senator Ken Salazar...they are all from Red leaning states, and yet these four do vote the majority of the time with the party they belong too, our party.

Ben Nelson being in Red Nebraska is NO excuse for his voting record, he votes as a Republican because he IS a Republican.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error.

[rpannier]

20. My turn

I do not and would not ever advocate tossing Senators from the Party (except Nelson). It's counter productive. There are things that I agree with the four Senators on and things I disagree on. And that's cool. It's part of being a member of this Party -- We're sort of a Disfunctional Party. I'm curious, given the fact that Joe Lieberman gets the worst press on DU, how people will vote given that Joe votes with the Dems on key issues more than Lincon, Pryor, Landrieu, Salazar, etc do people still think he's the greatest impediment to the Party. To read people's opinions on Lieberman, they'd like to throw him in the river and drown him.
In retrospect my subject line should have read, "Which Dem Senator is the Greatest Impediment the Party" (After Nelson)

[...of J.Temperance]

25. Lieberman actually has a very Liberal voting record on social issues

Yes he sucks with his position over Iraq, but on social issues Lieberman's voting record is not much different than say Senator Boxer's. Thus, I'd far prefer Senator Lieberman get re-elected to the Senate, than have a full-on Reactionary and Right-Wing Republican take that seat off him.

I would have no problem cutting ALL funding to Ben Nelson, he's up for re-election, considering that he votes with our Democratic Party about 2% of the time, I think that the DNC should refuse to give him ANY funds...he wants funding, let him go to where he belongs for it, the RNC.

The thing is, as Democrats we cannot agree on 100% of the issues 100% of the time, and nor should we. As you state we agree on certain things, we disagree on certain things, and this is how things should be...of course I draw the line at bashing of our people (except for Ben Nelson), because I think that the bashing is counterproductive and especially in an election year doesn't help our side and only serves to give the RNC talking points.

[rpannier]

30. I the reasons why I chose to this poll were...

1. There is a myth than Joe Lieberman is the closest thing to a Republican in the Democratic Party. Most people who follow his record should know his stance on the environment, abortion and civil rights are excellent.
2. The same with Hillary, Joe B, and Diane. (It's why I stated for Hillary I was surprised and why I mentioned I worked for Diane). But these four people (Joe L, Joe B, Diane and Hillary are a lightning rod for attacks)
3. I was curious as to how people would vote if they knew how these people's voting records played out.
None of the nine on my list do I consider terrible.
The choice of words on my subject line was terrible. For that I apologise.

edit: I did try to change the subject line but I waited too long. It won't let me change it.

One more edit: If it's true about Baucus taking money from Abramoff, he's the one I'd pick. Because he'd be corrupt and damage the attempt by the Party leadership to make this election about criminal behavior and corruption.

[...of J.Temperance]

37. No I agree with your comments

In light of such, it's an interesting poll :)

[acmavm]

22. Some might argue that he 'has' to vote the way he does, but you know

we don't put a dem in the senate because we want another republican. WE WANT A FRIGGING DEM, DAMMIT

[KharmaTrain]

8. Define "Worst"

Do you believe all Democrats have to act in lock-step? They must vote a certain Progressive/Liberal way or they're "the worst"? Should a Senator from Vermont vote the same way as one from Nebraska without taking into consideration the local politics, interests or history? I guess the answer to these questions are yes.

Senator Nelson represents a heavily red state and a year ago many here were predicting his doom and gloom as he was and is still being targeted by the Repugnicans. While the threat to his seat appears minimal now (thanks to Liddy Dole's inept operating of the RSCC), he's still under the gun for anything and everything he does that will be used by the local GOOP party to hammer him. How soon people here forget the tactics used against Daschele and Johnson in South Dakota.

Nelson's also a first-termer...traditionally where a Senator "learns" the job and finds his/her voice. Considering the difficult political environment, I think Senator Nelson's done what he felt was best for his state over party and to ensure his political survival. Right now Democrats can't be too picky...would you prefer someone who votes with us 75% of the time (as Nelson does) vs. someone like another Imhoff or Roberts or Brownback?

Now isn't the Democratic party supposed to be the "fresh air" of diversity? The party where all political, economic, racial, sexual and other stripes can find accomodation? This sure isn't done by finding the things that separate.

Peace...

[rpannier]

14. As I said in my comments

"The Greatest Impediment" The person who's actions create the greatest impediment to our having a National Position on Key Issues. That's the criterion. It's not about any single issue. It's about their affect on the Party as a whole.

[KharmaTrain]

17. What's He Impeding?

I still don't follow what you're getting at here other than trashing Senator Nelson.

How have Senator Nelson's votes affected the party "as a whole"? Which votes or actions has he done that has created an impediment to having a "national position on key issues"...and what would that position and issues be? Seems like you sure have something more specific in mind. That's fine...just spell it out and see where it goes.

Again, what standard is applied here?

[rpannier]

24. As to the issues, Sen Nelson and the first four names

they can be found on http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2005/12/2005-senate-weasel-of-year-award_29.html.

As to more specific in mind...If you read people's positions on various US Senators many people here (at DU in general)dislike Joe Lieberman the most and consider him to be the greatest impediment, after that Hillary, then Joe B. and Diane. Given the fact that these four are more reliable on key votes than people like Landrieu and Conrad will people still rate them as worse for the Party. It may seem an unreasonable poll to you. It may also seem dishonest. I canot help that if you feel that way. But, I'm curious.

[KharmaTrain]

35. Again, I'm Looking For A Standard Here

I'll bet we're more in agreement than disagreement, I'm just trying to sort out what the impediment a Landrieu or Nelson (either one) creates on a national party agenda as their votes have almost always been based on their local interests. In that light, and for the overall best interests of their state parties, those votes could have helped bolster the party...move it away from electing Repugnicans and make it possible for even more Democrats to run and then to set the groundwork for a more credible Progressive/Liberal candidate to emerge.

Now would you consider Lincoln Chaffee an impedement on the Repugnican party as he votes his state's interests more often than the party line?

I agree that Lieberman's votes and support for this invasion (which is my most important issue) has been a complete sell-out and I can't support his position. But then I had tremendous reservations about Kerry and his stand on the IWR and anyone else who "voted for and then voted against". My Senator voted no across the board and I really respect him for that stand...one that wasn't popular in this state at the time, but sure is now.

Inversely, aren't Hagel's statements doing the same damage to the Repugnicans? He's their Lieberman.

Now if raising questions is dishonest, the concept of a discussion board on DU surely is getting to be a passe concept.

I'm as curious as you are...and also to think, discuss, learn and grow. One does that by questioning...

Peace...

[rpannier]

41. My turn

First to clarify: When I said dishonest I meant, "If my purpose to conducting the poll seemed dishonest to you and others then I apologise."
As to my standard: The effectiveness, or perceived effectiveness, of a political party is based in large part on how their members vote on crucial issues to the Party. On that point, Ben Nelson is unreliable -- to me.
I would be curious to hear Sen Nelson's reasons why he opposed a bill that would have exempted those hit by Hurrican Katrina from the new Bankruptcy Bill or Why he opposed the money for low-income heating energy assistance. And he voted to try and get cloture on the Patriot Act that contained the ANWR Bill (Even Chuck Hagel voted against that). These were bills that the Dems targeted as important. (On key Republican Legislation Chafee and Hagel are better republican soldiers, than Nelson is a good Dem Soldier).
The picking of Landrieu, Conrad, etc (The Weasel Runner-ups) had a purpose. People here bash Joe L, Joe B, Hillary and Diane as being such poor Dems. Yet, their voting records tell a decidedly different story. It's not the Sen Landrieu is a bad person, or a horrible Democrat, it's that her voting record is more in line with Republicans than Joe L's is. But, why is Joe L, along with Hillary, Diane and Joe B the object of so much hatred? (Especially since their votes on the environ, civil rights, etc are usually excellent) Part of that, I think, is notoriety. When those four speak it makes headlines.
So my criterion was based on taking the four runner-ups and Salazar who has been a monthly winner a few times and pit them against the four most criticized Dems (here at DU) and see what people think. It didn't seem to change people's minds. I was sort of hoping it might open up people's minds a little.

BTW. MY apologies: MY subject line sucked big time. I should have titled my poll better. I apologise to you as I have been to everyone else.

[KharmaTrain]

43. No Offense Here...Just Amplifying A Local Debate

A couple quick hits...

I tend to think there's many here who live in heavily blue or Progressive/Liberal areas can't comprehend what it's like in what I call the "purple" and red areas. I've lived in both. It was easy for me to look at a Nelson or even a Feinstein and say how they were sell-outs or unreliable based on the world I lived in. However, I've been on the other side as well.

The reason I bring this up is our local Democratic Congresswoman...a first termer...is considered one of the worst "DINOs" on this and other sites. People don't realize the circumstances and only look at the votes. That's understandable, but then when some of us locals looked into this and tried to rationalize what was going on, we were castigated as well. Judgements were made based on the votes and not on the "on the ground facts"...and how some of those votes could have taken a key local issue out of play in the next election and now allow the candidate to focus on other ones (the war, pro-choice and so on). It's a sticky wicket and thus interesting to see the give and take on how one really would handle this situation if they were "on the bubble".

I just bring this discussion up as to get a wider perspective of things. Right now the Democrats have no real power until it wins control of at least the House and thus can't determine any agenda or affect the Progressive/Liberal agendas that so many covet here. That's a luxuary a majority affords and then I suspect we'll again find Democrats forming the same circular firing squads they did in the past that eventually handed control over to Gingrich and the rest is sorrid history.

Cheers...and thanks for your replies. No offense taken here, no appology needed...I was just asking for and appreciate your clarification!

[Donkeykick]

12. I Chose...

Lieberman. I think that he is cozying up to the GOP too much here lately.:thumbsdown:

[Double T]

16. AGREED!! If Joe wants to support the republican agenda.......

then become one. He can not have it BOTH ways.

[WhollyHeretic]

28. Definitely too cozy...

[Raster]

19. This should be called the Zell Miller Weasel Award...

the winner should be mandated to wear their price tags for each DINO vote.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! But, the rest are well worth their awards.

Lieberman doesn't really "weasel" about his rightwing stances. Biden just shoots his idiot mouth off. But, Hillary actually convinces the gullible that she's something other than the ambitious poltical hack that she is.

[Crazy Dave]

27. Watch out!

H2O Man will accuse you of being a Bush supporter if you say anything bad about his goddess.

[...of J.Temperance]

33. You only joined on December 6th...it's a bit soon to be going after

Already established DU people wouldn't you say?

H2O Man's comments were coherent...you all but accused Senator Clinton of being a Republican on the basis that she was once a Young Republican in the 1960s when she was a teenager.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error. More coffee needed.

[Crazy Dave]

38. My attack was on a public figure as a part of this discussion,....

...his lame attack was on me personally. So what's your unimportant point?

[...of J.Temperance]

40. Suggesting that H2O Man needed therapy

Saying "So what's your unimportant point?"...keep it going if that's how you want to conduct discussions.

I'm saying that some etiquette is required okay?

Etiquette :)

On Edit: You brought what H20 Man said to you onto yourself, by your absurd comments in your post # 10. As H20 Man stated, that was a total warping of Senator Clinton, which contained about one tiny grain of accuracy.

[H2O Man]

45. Dave made a claim

that is absolutely untrue. He attributed to Senator Clinton a policy that is widely recognized as being true for Bush -- an unwillingness to have open meetings with journalists. This is, as I said, baloney. It is either a sign of ignorance or a purposeful lie. I can say this because of personal experience in watching her meeting with the public and media. Thus exposed for putting an inaccurate statement about Clinton on here, Dave chooses to avoid responding to the fact he was wrong. Instead, he puts forth statements about getting therapy and about Hillary being my "goddess." I am confident that DUers reading this thread will see that I made clear I am not a supporter of Senator Clinton at this time, due to her stance on the war in Iraq. And I think that most DUers, even those who disagree with me strongly on a variety of issues, will be able to recognize the tactics of our new friend for what they are.

[...of J.Temperance]

47. The claim is repeated in post #46

You know that I like Senator Clinton, Jaysus I've defended her enough on DU...that being said I don't want her running for President in 2008.

[Crazy Dave]

46. Well "J."

As I said before and if you care to check the sequence, I could care less if you don't, as soon as H2O man saw someone criticizing a public figure that he obviously adores and defends, he made a personal and idiotic attack on me personally by accusing me of being a Bush supporter. He doesn't know me, you don't know me and I don't know either of you but I'll bet I've voted Democrat longer than the age of the two of you (an assumption) and have probably contributed more in donations to the democratic party in the past five years than the two of you in a lifetime therefore I demand that if the politicians run on a democratic platform, beg for our money and support they better damn well act like democrats. The middle of the road, appeasement crap doesn't get any support from me nor will it in 2008.

Anyway, back to our darling senator. Even on NPR I've heard that Hillary only attends carefully orchestrated appearances with no direct access to questioning by reporters and gave scripted interviews in friendly venues only. Of course Hannity, Limbaugh and the Freepers probably say the same thing.

You can have the last word as I have wasted enough time defending myself against personal, juvenile, and false accusations about my political views.

[...of J.Temperance]

48. My family have given a lot of money to the party and I've worked on a

Winning Senatorial campaign, so my family have given our money and our time to the Democratic Party.

You don't have to polish a diamond. I'm only commenting about finance and working on a campaign, because you felt the need to suggest that you've probably given more money to the party than H2O Man and I have in a lifetime.

So you're going to believe NPR? Apart from sports, on general issues and news coverage they've become no different than Sean Hannity et al. NPR have swung way to the Right.

I know that Senator Clinton openly meets with whoever wants to meet with her, and she takes questions...unlike Junior who is stage-managed right down to his latest facial tic and who will only appear in front of pre-screened audiences and will only take two or three scripted pre-submitted questions and who gets all psycho and pissed off if anyone dares to ask a follow-up question.

The raw hatred of Senator Clinton I find incredibly disturbing. I notice that you didn't respond to my comments about her voting record on health, social security, abortion, education et al.

You know health, social security, education ARE a long-standing part of the Democratic Platform, you want someone who supports the Democratic Platform, well there's some hardcore Democratic issues I've just pointed out that Senator Clinton supports.

So Hillary votes for IWR and is co-sponsoring a flag burning Amendment, big deal, I don't believe in cutting off my nose to spite my face, Hillary's all round voting record is pretty fine with me and millions of other Democrats.

Do you like John Murtha can I ask? Is John Murtha your kind of Democrat? Did you ever check Murtha's voting record? Not only did he also support IWR but he was co-sponsoring a flag burning Amendment long before Hillary was...he's also 100% anti-abortion, he also supports much of Junior's Fundie agenda including forced prayer in schools, Murtha has got a very good 90% Republican voting record...but he's now against Iraq so by golly he's now the best thing since sliced bread (ignoring the fact that a majority of the population are now ALSO against Iraq)

Nobody was saying false accusations against your political views...however you have made false accusations against Senator Clinton not having open meetings and not taking questions from journalists...false accusations that you've repeated again in the post that I'm responding to right now.

[H2O Man]

54. I think that

our new friend has exposed himself to an extent that indicates further discussions with him are not necessary. Again, when a person starts on DU with claims about any elected democratic official that are 100% false -- just absolutely without any truth to them at all -- and then, rather than admitting they simply made something up, resorts to silly insults and foolishness about their background, there is no need to say any more to them.

[no_hypocrisy]

29. My disgust for Lieberman started when he was the first to jump to his feet

in the Senate to condemn Bill Clinton, the president and member of Lieberman's party, for a mere blow job. He started before Newt could even put on his bifocals.

[Dr.Phool]

31. Isaid other....You forgot Bill Nelson (D-Kinda)

[bagrman]

49. Don't be "Republicanish" about following Hillary.

Just because she's the jilted wife of an ex-president that had a good run while sitting in the presidents office, doesn't give her a free pass to his old seat. We have 1 political party in this country with 2 sub parts. They like to push our buttons and keep us chasing our tails by bringing the same old hot topics every election cycle so that we don't pay attention to what else has been done to the counrty. The Democrates are as viral as the Republicans when it comes to following their annointed in believeing they can do no wrong.
Clinton's past goes back to the days in ARkansas when it was the hub for arming the Contras. Cocaine was the main product moving through the Mena airport and 56 of the Clintons politicos and associates are dead. 7 of clintons past body guards are dead. It's not that any of this is false it's that it was never investigated. I know these are all lies, just mud slinging by the Republicans just like Democrates sling mud at Bush.
Take off the rose colored glasses and look into the Clintons past like you have Bush, there is to much to be pased off as just Republican BS. They are all part of the power elites of this country that want the power for themselves, no constitution, and no middle class.
Good place to start Google: President Clintons executive orders, FEMA. Theres about 20 some and they all have to do with FEMA running this country as soon as they can declare Martial Law.


Latr
Chris

[LincolnMcGrath]

50. Holy Mackerel!

[...of J.Temperance]

51. 'Um I'd better say Hello before it's TOO late n/t

[BlueIris]

44. Had to go with DiFi. Sell out. Playing dumb. Thinks no one is noticing.

Fuck you, DiDi.

[Skidmore]

53. 82% of the time!!!! Wow! I would say that makes in a

DINO for sure. If you are voting with the Rs that high of a percentage then just become one. At least be honest.

[gulliver]

55. Threads like this make me want to hurl.

The Dems have a big tent. We are a C-O-A-L-I-T-I-O-N, not a bunch of robots. We don't have to agree on everything. "A Whopping 82% of the time he votes with the pukies on key pieces of legislation?" Got a link?

[rpannier]

56. Here

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2005/12/2005-senate-weasel-of-year-award_29.html