Project Echelon debunking thread

[BushOut06]

This seems to be one of the RW talking points, that Project Echelon collected all sorts of communications from all over the world - including within US borders. On the surface, it does look rather disturbing. I did a quick Google search, and there is quite a bit of info out there, and not all of it is from RW sites - although the RWers certainly are having a field day with it.

This is something that we all need to become familiar with, as the freepers are bound to throw it in our faces whenever we bring up Bush's illegal wiretaps. Did Echelon comply with FISA requirements? I'm sure that it was completely legal, but we need to know how to answer this when it's brought up.

[htuttle]

1. Echelon got around FISA requirements by using foreign staffers

In the Echelon stations around the world, at least one or more of the staff on duty are from a country other than the one the station is in. In other words, the Echelon stations in the US all have at least one staffer from Britain, Canada, Australia, etc... working there. Stations in Australia have at least one US or Canadian staffer, etc...

It's their job to handle the surveillance of citizens of the host country. So 'officially' it's not US personnel doing the spying, it's a foreign nation instead. If they find anything interesting, they pass it on to the staffers from the host country (probably sitting next to them). At that point, it becomes intelligence 'gathered by another country', even though it was done with our government's full knowledge (and possibly even their list of targets).

I guess it's sort of like outsourcing spying on our own soil...

[BushOut06]

2. So basically it was wrong even then

I guess we don't have to be knee-jerk defenders of everything that occured under the Clinton administration, although I think he did far more good than bad.

Still doesn't make what Bush is doing right. It's classic childish behavior - first blame it on someone else, then say "well everyone else was doing it". I recall that didn't really work too well for me when I was younger.

[formernaderite]

3. The Bush's are worse by the power of ten...but Clinton

justice did start this crap off by introducing roving wiretaps....and seriously...we really don't know all the Echelon does.

[BushOut06]

4. That's what really gets me

Nobody really knows a heck of a lot about Echelon. It might not be as bad as we think - or it could be much worse. We just don't know. Neither do the RWers.

[htuttle]

5. Echelon at least tries to stay within the letter of the law

That's the point of the whole foreign staffer nonsense.

Bush has been asserting that his powers are above the law -- that he's able to ignore the law as he sees fit. That's a large difference.

[radio4progressives]

10. THANK YOU!! One BRIGHT LIGHT on this board!

:applause:

[radwriter0555]

6. Right wingers are so stupid they think clinton invented Echelon... when in

fact it has been around for nearly 50 years.

[BushOut06]

7. Thanks - did not know that

I thought it was something that was initiated in the 90s. Do you have a link for this? I would love to throw that back in their face when it gets brought up.

[radwriter0555]

8. The history of Echelon has been delineated at great length. Google is

our friend!

You should read up as many links as possible so that you have a well rounded POV about it.

It's controversial yet, pretty important in this modern age. Worth a couple hours of your time and research.

Fascinating stuff.

[radio4progressives]

9. No we can't debunk it.. it's an evil program and the entire progressive

community, and people involved in radio and internet were leading the charge in exposing this program and how it was the beginning of the loss of our privacy rights - and the beginning of unchecked big-brother/gestapo authority ...

i'm sorry it's a legitimate critisim, but it should NEVER be used as a justification for all the criminal crap that has followed.

This is but one of the big issues that progressives were sounding off alarms to the opiated, apathetic masses that just scratched their mutual asses going, huh?