I'm convinced we're on a high speed train to dictatorship

[Avalux]

I consider myself an optimist - always have. But lately, I really don't see how we can stop what's happening in this country.

I am seeing this government committing acts that are unconstitutional - then throwing it in our faces as if to say "what are you going to do to stop us?" That's what frightens me the most - they aren't even trying to hide it and the American people don't seem to care.

It can happen here and it is.

[Matariki]

1. I don't understand the logic of increased pres powers in "war time"

it seems obvious that it would be an incentive (for certain types) for unending war

[htuttle]

2. That's precisely what the Founding Fathers said

And precisely why the war-making powers were given to Congress.

But they don't seem to do it that way anymore....

[Avalux]

6. The whole "war time" excuse drives me nutty

An ill-defined war on an idea. Ugh.

[savemefromdumbya]

74. it is not even a war! just a little quagmire?

how on earth can you wage war against terrorism (when the terrorists are the ones who are waging it) -

[AuntiBush]

35. Don't Recall "War" Ever Being Declared...

We were suppose to get Os-ama Bin-Forgotten (Afghanistan) and ended-up smack-dab in the middle of Iraq.

Wasn't it reported that war was never actually declared?

[SmokingJacket]

63. Yes, it ought to count as much as the War on Drugs.

Did congress officially declare the war on drugs, either? I thought not.

[FraDon]

3. ... Going down for the count.

State of the Union,
Depends on how you see it.
Going down for the count.

Kiss Democracy
(she never had a fair chance)
good-bye? OR, fight back!

It's said, "No justice;
No peace." How 'bout, "Know justice;
Know peace!" Overdue.

- A Haiku Triplet

[newyawker99]

75. Hi FraDon!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[donheld]

4. Those who say "It can't happen here"

haven't been paying attention.

[Protagoras]

36. We've always been much closer to the edge than any would admit

Sinclair Lewis and Jack London saw it almost 100 years ago.

[truth2power]

64. Jack London wrote "The Iron Heel" in 1906.

about a society controlled by an elite group of capitalists known as the Iron Heel.

Excerpt:

"'I know of nothing that will influence you,' he said. 'You have no souls to be influenced. You are spineless, flaccid things. You pompously call yourselves Republicans and Democrats. There is no Republican Party. There is no Democratic Party. There are no Republicans or Democrats in this house. You are lick-spittlers and panderers, the creatures of the Plutocracy. You talk verbosely in antiquated terminology of your love of liberty, and all the while you wear the scarlet livery of the Iron Heel'..." ( p. 160)

Hmm...you think London had a time machine or something?

[Stand and Fight]

38. It most definitely can happen here....

And it is likely that we're watching it happen. However, Bush is small potatoes. He's a part of a much more sinister organization.

[donheld]

45. The people of our country have taken their Democracy for granted

far too long. Now it's almost gone and very few even know it.

[Stand and Fight]

56. You're correct, Don...

I just submitted an article dealing with Steven Bradbury revelation that the president can order the killing of suspected terrorist. Hopefully it is published and widely read.

[Junkdrawer]

5. A few more BushCo scandals ought to do it...

It’s gotten to the point where I HATE new BushCo "scandals" because I know that just means they get MORE power.

"My, you were stupid. Here's some more power. Please keep us safe."

[Avalux]

8. Exactly.

Bush admits he's broken the law with bravado and insists he'll keep doing it with that disgusting smirk on his face. Republican Congress nod and give him a pass. I hate to feel hopeless, but damn.

[TahitiNut]

15. Every 'new' scandal is merely an excuse to forget the 'old' ones.

Anybody care to know about Cheney's Energy Task Force? :eyes:

[Avalux]

16. It's overwhelming -

and maybe that's the strategy. There's so much it's as if we can't keep up and then will throw up our hands and give up completely.

[glitch]

58. Blitzkrieg - shock and awe, baybee. It is definitely the strategy. nt

[Stand and Fight]

39. I agree...

It seems scandal always results in them getting away with the original crime and coming out with more power to commit worse crimes.

[thereismore]

Yes, this is just a stalling game. The real action comes before *

is supposed to leave office. We'll have another 9/11, martial law, and end of the Constitution. No more elections until the danger to the Nation is over. Just a temporary measure. But sleep tight, your Commander in Chief is watching over you.

[Avalux]

10. Yep.

I keep thinking about what Karl Rove said years ago when he prepped Bush for governor here in Texas - his mission is to change the course of American history and install a Republican government that will control this country forever. None of these men give a damn about this country, the people or our Constitution.

[MetaTrope]

65. Well, for something like that to happen

the BFEE is going to have to get a whole bunch of al Quaeda sprung from a Yemen prison or something.

[thereismore]

66. LOL!! tears LOL!! tears n/t

[rucky]

68. at least that buys us a couple more years

to mount our defense.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. I am glad we have relatives in Canada. My kids may have to take

a vacation there and forget to come home at some point.

[ChiciB1]

9. If You're Watching The Hearings I Certainly Believe THEY Will

once again get their way!! The Repukes are doing everything they can to make Gonzo look credible!!

Just wait for news later today... Kennedy & Leahy will be nailed to the wall! As happens ALL THE TIME!

Not only is this something to be completely fearful of, it's also scary that there is very little outrage!! A WH who started an ILLEGAL war thinks it can do WHATEVER it wants!!

[Avalux]

12. This hearing is nonsense.

They're doing it so they can say they did, that's all. I am disturbed by people who believe since they're on the "right" side and support Bush, they don't care if their civil liberties are destroyed. What is wrong with them?

[ChiciB1]

30. Beats Me!!! And I DO Agree That They Are Only Doing It To Say

THEY did it!

Gonzo is lying his ass off and refusing to answer many many questions! So what else is new?? I'm at a loss to figure out just WHAT can be done to stop "the corrupt ones!"

[Double T]

11. The American people don't want to believe what is happening.....

to their country, but they will when it does.

[Strawman]

13. It's reversible

He's not the first President to act like a dictator, and he probably won't be the last.

[chimpymustgo]

19. We are at the destination. You may walk on the left or stand on the right

Please do not obstruct the doors.

[Strawman]

25. All I'm saying is don't despair

This clown can and will be stopped.

And then there will probably be another clown right behind him we will have to fight.

This tension between those who would prefer to have someone acting more or less as a dictator in the White House and those who do not is as old as the Constitution itself. Others who have loved liberty have faced this challenge in the past. Now, it's our turn.

I'm not obstructing any door. Quite the opposite. I'm lending some perspective to counter the temptation toward fatalism.

[ChiciB1]

31. AAAHHHH, Fatalism... Yep That's Pretty Much How I Feel!

And mind you, I was around for NIXON!!

Perhaps we can look far enough in the past and discover scandals... but THIS MANY in ONE administration??? I guess SEX is just about the only thing SEXY enough to Impeach someone! Unfortunately, with Impeachment of THIS President we will have to go further down the scale. Ready for President Cheney anyone????

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. And anything we do to derail it, will be considered sabatoge

and terrorism.

[Karmageddon]

46. if that is the case, then saboteurs we must all become.

[niallmac]

17. Need to stop the machine

Violence is a non productive bummer that the other side wins every time.
Will Americans be willing to suffocate the corporations until they say uncle?
Action by inaction:
Don't even think of buying a new much less bigger car for ten years e.g.
Lets agree to take care of each other during the economic slow down...collapse?
Monkey wrench in the gears is all I am saying.
Do you really believe we (the people) are no longer in charge of this country?
Do we have the moxie to endure a lessening of our creature comforts in the name of our futures?
Ohio can piss up a rope generally speaking. Even if those who choose not to participate in supporting this war
and economic slave ship apparatus are a minority...the ship slows to a crawl and then maybe we can have a REAL dialog.

[Justpat]

18. I've been convinced of that since Bush said he preferred

dictatorships as long as he was the dictator.

Too bad more people didn't believe him.

He prefers dictatorships because he does not have the inclination
or intellect to understand and participate in complex situations.
And democracy is complex in the best of times. In confusing times
like these, the thought process required to be effective is
simply not available to this miserable cretin.

[Avalux]

20. Yes, good point.

And very good assessment of Bush - you've described him perfectly. :thumbsup:

[yorkiemommie1]

69. spot on!

n/t

[Neil Lisst]

21. The Watergate burglary was during wartime!!

When have we NOT been at war with someone the past 40 years?

Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Dominican Republic, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Grenada, Nicaragua, Panama, Iraq, Kuwait, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq.

If a Bush is in the White House, you know the country will be at war with someone. Bush men must have balls the size of chestnuts, because they always have to artificially inflate theirs by starting some war.

[Avalux]

22. I like this question posed to Gonzalez -

are we more at risk from terrorism now than we were during the cold war when we had nukes pointing at us?

Of course he didn't answer, but the answer is no. There's no reason for the wiretaps any more now than at any other point in the history of this country.

[Neil Lisst]

24. yeah, we managed to get through USSR with 6000 nukes without it

But Little Man Bush and his imaginary war trump 200 years of American liberties and 30 years of FISA constraints.

It's like Dubya's entire life - rules don't apply to this spoiled brat.

[Justpat]

47. That was a point Gore made in his speech

recently at the DAR hall.

He asked: "Is our Congress today in more danger than were their predecessors when the British
army was marching on the Capitol? Is the world more dangerous than when we faced an idelogical
enemy with tens of thousands of missles poised to be laundhed against us and annihilate our
country at a moment's notice? Is America in more danger now than when we faced worldwide
fascism on the march-when our fathers fought and won two World Wars simultaneously?

It is simply an insult to those who came before us and sacrificed so much on our behalf to
imply that we have more to be fearful of than they. Yet they faithfully protected our freedoms
and now it is up to us to do the same."

Al Gore January 16, 2006

[Beelzebud]

23. "It'd be a heckuva lot easier if this were a dictatorship..."

"Just so long as I'm the dictator." --George W. Bush


Any questions?

[leftchick]

26. honey it is here

the train has reached the staion and no one can get off. :cry:

[Individualist]

33. Indeed, it is.

IMO, confirmation of Alito was the final nail in the coffin of democracy.

[leftchick]

40. that is what did it for me

For three years I have put off serious consideration of leaving this country. I have no choice no. If I don't get out of this place with my family I will go mad.

[leeroysphitz]

27. It's like those no bid Iraq contracts for Halibutron...

As soon as I heard about that I knew things were getting MUCH weirder than anyone was saying at the time.
They announced as if they were just DARING anyone to call them on their bullshit and nobody in a position to
bring the hammer down on them did. What a precedent. We've seen the same scenario play out over and over for years since then.

They do not ACT like an administration that expects to be out of power much less made to answer for their crimes...

THAT is scary.

[Junkdrawer]

28. We're watching the Dictator Confirmation Hearings right now...

Some may suggest a filibuster on the upcoming Coronation vote, but I think we should keep our powder dry for a vote that really matters.

Oh, BTW: Seig Heil

[Avalux]

29. Yes we are.

FISA will be no more - Bush will be given unbridled LEGAL authority by his enablers, the Republican Congress. I'm afraid at this point there's little our Democratic leaders can do; they have no power and a filibuster won't change anything.

[FlaGranny]

44. Sometimes I wonder what would

happen if the Democrats just declared they had no voice, and refused to even meet with the Republicans. Instead, they could spend their time meeting together, figuring out the best way to go from there. Half of the country has no voice in our government - we have been effectively excluded anyway.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

49. I think it would be a lot more HONEST than what passes for politics in

this country right now.

Even if the coroporate media covered it like "look at those obstructionist Dems" it would FORCE certain people to WAKE UP in this country.

[Nutmegger]

32. Sure this country isn't exempt

I think Americans in general don't think that it can happen here though. As you have stated, Bush Inc is challenging us to do something and no action is being taken.

I only hope that this country will sustain the rule of Bush Inc; this is a dark time...we must pass through it.

34. We are much bigger than they are

we just need to wake up.

[AuntiBush]

37. More like the Highway Straight to...

Hell. If my passport goes through, I'm looking for a home and/or land elsewhere.

No longer recognize my country.

[cascadiance]

41. I say we ALL look to take off election day in November, 2006!

Perhaps if we start early enough now, we can campaign so that EVERYONE can take off that day on vacation, or at least only leave a minority of people that have to work then. If we can get to the point where most people can vote that day of course, but in addition, we can all move in on Washington that day and do what the Ukranians did if we feel our votes are being stolen. Make sure we have "parallel elections" and polling data as accurately and widespread as possible to ensure that people's votes are being counted properly. If people aren't able to vote (because of the shenanigans like those pulled in Ohio last time with undersupplying voting machines, etc.) then we have enough "militias" in various places to make sure that something's done about it so that they CAN vote! And if people are told that they cannot vote because of some B.S. "felony" they have, then make sure that they are able to vote on a provisional ballot. In short, we need an army come election day to ensure that this election isn't "hijacked" like the last two have been. The election is the last piece of democracy they've not tried to "throw away" yet like they've been doing with other parts of our constitution. Let's make sure that they don't subvert it and that we make it COUNT that day to get the "megalos" out of office!

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. Parallel election?

Like having a non-official voting station outside every voting station, where people fill out paper ballots and then mark their fingers with blue ink so they cannot vote twice.

Of course, the repukes won't bother to vote there, but it would be interesting to provide a count that accurately reflects the Dem vote and compare it with the "official" polling station count.

[cascadiance]

57. It was tried here in San Diego for the special mayoral election..

There was some descrepancies found, but not enough to find any differences in the election itself. When they compared the results, I still wonder if they "cherry picked" which precincts they looked at, etc. like they did in Ohio. If we really plan this out and try to get independent verification procedures, etc. enough so that we can get something that locals everyplace would be confident in voting there as a means to verify their vote, that would be useful. And if there are big 10 hour waits in lines like they had in Ohio, perhaps some people could indicate in this ballot that they weren't able to vote (if they had to work or something else prevented them from waiting in line for 10 hours), so we could get a good estimate of how some people were kept from voting and what they would have voted for if they'd been permitted to vote. Of course, that also means having an "efficient" polling mechanism too, so that we don't get the same lines that voting lines do, to make it easy for people to stop by and make sure that their vote counted. It could be marketed as "voter insurance" or something like that to help people feel more confident in their vote being counted. Even if this costs tons of money, if enough contributors could be persuaded to put up the money, I think it would be money well worth spending, as this 2006 and the 2008 elections are probably going to be amongst the most important in our lifetimes. We really need to make sure we get it right this time!

[Yollam]

42. Yes, and we're in the boxcars...

...and I can almost see Bergen-Belsen just over that ridge there.

But most of our fellow passengers still believe we are on the way to a work camp, and that things will somehow get better, eventually, after all, our elected democrats are in there fighting for us every day. Right?

Right?

[eridani]

73. If you want to know who the concentration camp guards are going to be--

just look at the Bush approval ratings.

[radio4progressives]

43. Many people are finally coming to this pov, but are you noticing how the

FCMSM is promulgating the Presidential Authority line, with more and more intensity?

Feinstien hit on that today, but without revealing specifics, which really she should have so that people are just waking up to this can put it together. that's the problem with our reps, they avoid taking that necessary step so that people understood in no uncertain terms the implications of these questions and lack of responses along with the rest of the machinations to obfuscate what's been going on here.

[Ksec]

48. Im surprised so many Americans are allowing it.

Those polls that said most Americans didnt mind the gov meddling in their business was frightening.

Now I see how so many Germans were led by Hitler to do such horrible things.

[Individualist]

51. I'm not

Too many willfully ignorant people believe everything their teevee tells them, and the teevee is spewing reich wing propaganda.

[Generator]

52. Yes

and I keep thinking maybe there is a fatal flaw in the constitution. It's always lauded as the end all of democracy and humanity but how is this happening then? I know-bad people. But why is there even party loyalty? Maybe parties at all are the problem. Imagine if we had 50 senators whose first and MAIN loyalty was to the American people!! Instead the majority now only have loyalty to Bush, to their party. It's a farce of what it's supposed to be sepARation of powers. It seems flawed because whatever party is in the white house has his buddies doing the bidding in the senate. So-why is that even allowed? Why is the president allowed to be partisan thus engendering loyalty? And has it always been that way?

I think our system is flawed. Yes, it may be the best on earth-so I've been told all my life but it's not working now. The checks and balances are gone. It's so clear.

[KamaAina]

53. Not to worry. America will never embrace high speed trains.

Might be the only thing that saves us from this one... :scared;

[Lorien]

54. NPR interviewed newspaper editors this weekend who said that " no one

seems concerned at all about the Patriot act-they see it as just another part of life in post 9/11 America that they've learned to live with" then added "that may be in part due to the way we've reported on it". Gee-YA THINK???!

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

55. I found a picture of it too!

once this thing pulls into Grand Central we're all fucked!

[degreesofgray]

59. Sorry, we don't have high speed trains in America...

perhaps we're in a runaway Cadillac Escalade to dictatorship.

[Raydawg1234]

60. Hate to say it, But we're already there. The "Unitary Executive"

Congress has been reduced to cheerleader status.


(On an off-hand note, check out my band website at http://www.myspace.com/thesonsoftomorrow
good music,good people, progressive message.)

[4freethinking]

61. Yes it can happen, and it did happen.

If we want to be honest about our history Lincoln turned this country into a dictorship for 4 years.
Here is an interesting factoid:

The chief justice of the supreme court(Taney) at that time handed down a decision that was contrary to Lincoln's suspension of the writ habeas corpus. Lincoln not only ignored the decision but signed a warrent to have Chief Justice Taney arrested.(The warrent was never carried out because the marshall that was suppose to make the arrest never complied with the order given by Lincoln)

Bush says he thinks about Lincoln a lot.

[Just Me]

62. I saw the neoconsters' inclination towards dictatorship. I sincerely,...

,...believed our system would stop them. Maybe, it still will,...maybe. I have become concerned enough to have "solution sessions" with my son and my SO re creating a number of solutions in the event this country continues to slide or of a draft.

I still believe it is possible to pull back the pendulum towards a fascist hybrid; but, prepare for the worst.

[Disturbed]

67. A turning point is now here.

The 2000 Election was a Neo Fascist Coup. The turning point of the USA becoming a Neo Fascist Police State is now upon us.

If the Neo Fascist Admin now in power is not Impeached the turning point will have passed.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. The train left THAT station on December 13, 2000....didn't you notice?

[LibertyorDeath]

71. Bush’s Tyranny for a Bankrupt Nation

By Mike Whitney

01/05/06

what is the relationship between the ocean of debt produced by the Bush team and their strengthening of police-state apparatus like unlimited spying on Americans, the NSS (Bush’s new Secret Police), the uniform Federal ID program, the Patriot Act, and Halliburton’s $385 million contract from Homeland Security to construct new detention and processing facilities within the United States?

Is the ascendancy of the police-state intended to balance the catastrophic effects of economic destruction? Or, do the new instruments of repression anticipate the “political turmoil” (Warren Buffet’s words) that naturally results from financial collapse?

The Bush master-plan is no different than the economic shock-therapy the United States has directed at the third world for decades. The strategy is simple and straightforward, but virtually foolproof in achieving its objectives; the crushing of the middle class and the subsequent shifting of the nation’s wealth to the “oligarchy of racketeers” who run the system.

The levers of power have all been faithfully assembled by Bush operatives, while America’s $3 trillion trade deficit looms overhead like the sword of Damocles. As the underpinnings of economic wellbeing continue to deteriorate; causing further job-flight, credit spending, and soaring energy prices; the power-brokers at the head-of-state calmly arrange the instruments of repression they’ll need to maintain order.

More
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11798.htm

[Odin2005]

72. The US was the only republic with a presidential system...

...that didn't fall into dictatorship. We will soon be the exception no longer. :cry: