Official Senate Committee Hearing - Electronic Surveillance - Thread 8

[Viva_La_Revolution]

Thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x333072#333197

Thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x333378

Thread 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x333608

Thread 4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x333872

Thread 5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x334130

Thread 6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x334437#334473

Thread 7
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x334816

[sabra]

1. thank you for doing this

reco'd

[JesterCS]

4. watching now

I totally forgot ><

Seems Gonzalez keeps sidestepping the actual questions

[stop the bleeding]

2. thank you, love the picts BTW - n/t

[ShortnFiery]

5. Yes, Kudos

Would some Senator ever admit that Congress has NOT declared WAR yet?

On Edit: We are NOT at WAR!!!

[LeftNYC]

3. I HATE REPUBLICANS...nt

[berner59]

7. Their defense...is simply...

We didn't think we broke the law so nah nah... Someone needs to nail this guy...

[The Witch]

hear here

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[BlueEyedSon]

6. It looks like Gonzo is about to crack up laughing like a high school kid.

He is a terrible actor.

[dogday]

8. Yes or No

Why don't any of these assholes use those words?

[BlueEyedSon]

10. Because the "issues" are too "complicated"....nt

[dogday]

12. Yes the truth is complicated to them..... nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

9. I can't tell you what we do with the info we gather...

just trust us! :bleck:!!

[dchill]

11. This guy wouldn't even make...

a good jailhouse lawyer. I hope we get a chance to find out if I'm right or wrong.

[Tinksrival]

13. He just did it again!

begin his sentances with......."the program I am discussing at this time" ????

Are there other programs? More than one? Is this how they are getting away with not discussing the scope of spying. Multiple programs?

This is a JOKE!!!

[dogday]

24. Gonzales is shaken up... He was just called a facist

by someone in the audience. Told him to get a warrant. They removed the guy....

[rodeodance]

41. yes, Gondy was visibly shaken

[gumby]

14. Know that parody song of Walking in a Winter Wonderland?

When I listen to Gonzoles, 'Walking' Round In Women's Underware' always loops in my brain.

[Sydnie]

33. ROFL!!!

He and Hoover! :rofl:

[LSK]

15. someone yelling

Something about a "warrant"?

[Wheezy]

23. something like that...

I think he said 'fascist' too.

[The Witch]

16. Heckler in the house!!!!

That was awesome ^_^

[Viva_La_Revolution]

17. What did he say???!!!!!

ohh. Apparently called Gonzales a fascist!?

:bounce:

[BR_Parkway]

30. Mrs Gonzalez to cue tears over the remark, endless loops of film

at 9, 10, 11 with overflowing punditry for the next 72 hours

[dogday]

66. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Cry me a river.....:rofl:

[helderheid]

18. WOOOOOT! From the peanut gallery - GET A WARRENT THIS IS FASCISM!

edit - so excited and my spelling suffered

[ClayZ]

Put that on the record!

[LibDemAlways]

43. Thank God somebody in that room

labelled the smirking freak a fascist. I realize there are rules of decorum to be followed in the US Senate, but those Dems aren't nearly pissed off enough.

[liveoaktx]

64. VIDEO

Look at Torture Pimp's Reaction
Doesn't seem to be like being called a fascist

[democrank]

19. This Q&A session is really a joke.

Why doesn`t C-Span just run a segment from the game show Hollywood Squares?

[BlueEyedSon]

26. The whole country has become a sitcom

[dweller]

20. Ruh Roh!

what did he say? fascist?

dp

[Sydnie]

21. How does Sessions know he's not a fascist?

that is a broad statement!

[TayTay]

32. He doesn't know.

But then again, Sessions wouldn't know a fascist if it up and bit him in his arse.

Gonzo is a fascist. We might as well call him one. Just like Bush is a tyrant. Might as well call him one.

[WinkyDink]

22. AG didn't laugh at the "Fascist!" outburst.

I wonder why.

[dogday]

35. Scared----they are pissing off a lot of people nt

[democrank]

38. What?????

A truth teller got loose?

[Sydnie]

48. He will be one of those Americans Gonzales was talking about

detaining, no doubt. :sarcasm:

[wicket]

71. what happened???

I'm cube-bound

[LiberalAndProud]

25. disruption in chamber...

protestor just yelled "facsist"

[Arkansas Granny]

27. Who was the gentleman that they just asked to leave?

I couldn't make out what he was saying.

[carolinalady]

28. did you see that tee shirt

ed: enforce the law arrest Bush

[annabanana]

34. Is that guy stull there?

[carolinalady]

36. different guy sitting in audience

[helderheid]

44. I hope liveoaktv will have a clip - I didn't see it, only heard it!

[carolinalady]

52. the guy I am talking about is still there-he is wearing a tee shirt

they showed him after the disruptor was tossed.

[jojo54]

29. I'm sure this will be the big story!

Someone yelling during the hearings, calling one of Bushco's own a facist!!! Oh, my!!

[tridim]

A big story on MSM "news"?

No way, it'll be ignored.

[dchill]

31. No, Sen. DeWine..

we expect him to take steps to protect the Constitution!

[BlueEyedSon]

39. Wow "the pres & the american peeps would be stronger if he had come

to congress for authorization."

My head is spinning!

[LeftNYC]

46. We will listen to your ideas, but they dont make a difference...nt

[kentuck]

40. "It's in our interest to resolve this matter as soon as possible.."

Indeed !

[rodeodance]

37. te he. i was in thread 4 as it was not locked-talking to myself.

[seabeyond]

42. lol lol welcome to 8

[rodeodance]

53. thanks, i was listening ealier than had family stuff to attend to. glad to

be back for a bit.

[rodeodance]

45. Kohl is my Senator--he does good (and Gondy talks down to him--which

makes me so angry)

[democrank]

47. I`m laughing so hard.

Welcome home.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

49. We're moving superfast today!

I'm having a tough time keeping up and getting bathroom breaks! LOL

[helderheid]

50. LOL - don't worry - you weren't alone ... they're watching you!

[rodeodance]

57. yes, moving fast--but glad to be here--

[dweller]

58. nice summary there!

:D

dp

[Sydnie]

60. LOL

they can't lock them if they are on the front page. Welcome back to the fold! :hug:


P.S. I LOVE it when you do the run down of a meeting, even if you are talking to yourself. You hit all the high points and make it very clear to any one reading just what happened in what ever you are covering. I just wanted to say thanks and your efforts are noticed and appreciated.

[chelsea0011]

51. What if we just eliminated the Fourth Ammendement?

Is this what DeWhine is asking.

[BlueEyedSon]

54. Why eliminate it when there is no consequence to ignoring it?

[chelsea0011]

114. So if I call support for say, a computer problem, and I am directed

to India, can I be wiretapped?

[w13rd0]

55. DeWine...

...asking a hypothetical. What would the President do if Congress passed a law prohibiting him from "fightin terror"? OMFG, you damn idiot! If his brain even connected to his mouth? The Republicans are attempting to use this hearing to marginalize FISA and imply that the President needs the rubber-stamp on his ability to spy on completely domestic communications without oversight. This is just f'n ridiculous.

[The Witch]

56. Q: When there's someone of interest, how do you decide whetherto use FISA?

My suggestion of a question.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[rodeodance]

61. What is the mater!!---Gondy---you do NOT have to WAIT--how dumb

are you and how dumb do we think we are--you have 5 days post to notify the Fisa court.

[rodeodance]

62. is it possible Gondy does not know of the 5 days? (i know he knows) but

this is really getting stupid.

[carolinalady]

59. Did you all hear them announce that the Intelligence Committee

will be holding secret hearings Feb 7or9? I guess Biden shamed them into it.

[rodeodance]

67. maybe.

[HereSince1628]

63. It seems to me that there is likely more than one program

that is directed at surveillance of Al Qaeda

Gonzales has several times made it clear he is talking about "this" program. There are "many authorities." We are not ignoring domestic surveillance.

That would by necessity to be _the_ program that Specter and Gonzales agreed to talk about.

Kohl's questioning begs the question "Why would you leave a hole in intelligence gathering about Al qaeda to Al aqaeda communication that takes place completely within the borders of the United States."

Gonzales answer was "this program doesn't do that" and leads me to believe that Kohl is correct not plugging that hole is unfathomable. How doubts that it is plugged with _at least_ one other program, though that doesn't tell us what agency it is working from.

I have the feeling we are being led down a primrose path but overly narrow path.
I want to know about the lawfulness of ALL domestic spying, including that which is not being discussed here.

[carolinalady]

73. Well he just admitted what you said-there is a way they are doing

domestic spying that hasn't leaked to the press yet.

[HereSince1628]

86. Feinstein is ON it. There ARE other authorities.

And Gonzales is now dodging the issue.

[displacedtexan]

65. For the 4th time, Alberto holds Bush responsible.

"The president makes the determination."

Hm.

[rodeodance]

72. Gondo is telling Kohl--clarify to him--telling him we are going after al-

quida.

[rodeodance]

75. Good Feinstein is up--telling us what this hearing is NOT about-as much

as the wh would like for it be abou!!

[Straight Shooter]

112. bush will say, "I'm not a lawyer," and thus excused from accountability.

Same old crap, day after day. Gonzales knows what he's doing. His hero was never held accountable for his horrid final decisions of executions in Texas, either, despite his 30-minute so-called briefings with Gonzales. The defense lawyer falls asleep in court and yet Gonz and bush decide it's okay to execute the convicted defendant. That's just one example. But yet they decide Henry Lee Lucas can be spared execution. (A little reward for being their hit man, I suspect.)

I wonder how long the briefings are that Gonzales gives to bush on eavesdropping scenarios ....

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. This is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

I want this man FRIED! I want these people STOPPED! Senators, DO YOUR FUCKING JOB!:grr:

[democrank]

74. Don`t hold your breath.

Remember....you`re either with Junior or you`re with the terrorists.

[Tinksrival]

69. FISA is killing themselves?

By being availible on weekends and nights? Just to much work for them! We are doing them a favor! Says the very nice man. Thank you Gonzo.

[Sydnie]

82. There is more than one - they take turns being on call.

I believe this is those judge's only job, isn't it? How could they be killing themselves more than any other judge?

My mother was a magistrate. She was on call 24/7 for a month at a time. It came with the position. It was a pain in the ass, but it didn't kill her! I can remember going down to the court house with her many times in the middle of the night. These guys have been known to phone it in and get approval.

Judge can approve this in their jammies for goodness sake!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

70. ?? to AsK : " Mr Gonzales, exactly WHEN did the administration

coin the term "Terrorist Surveillance Program" and WHO named it that

[rodeodance]

76. good, she is repeating the Buffalo, ny Jr comment that jr said need warren

[rodeodance]

78. Gondy saying that Jr was referring to 'wiretaps' and the PA -which is

true.

[rodeodance]

81. says people are thaking Jrs comments out of context and Feinstein said

"fair enough'--lets go on.

[rodeodance]

83. I do not think she is convinced but will let it go for now.

[democrank]

89. "Fair enough".....

My, oh my. I think my head just blew up.

[Stand and Fight]

104. "Fair enough"???

:wtf:

[berner59]

80. Diane...guns ablazing...

Throwing that quote from Bush... AG saying he wasn't talking about wiretapping just "roving wiretaps"...huh???? oh...I understand now...NOT!!!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

117. Here's the transcript of Chimp's remarks from April 04 on warrants/

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040420-2.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
April 20, 2004
President Bush: Information Sharing, Patriot Act Vital to Homeland Security
Remarks by the President in a Conversation on the USA Patriot Act
Kleinshans Music Hall
Buffalo, New York
9:49 A.M. EDT

“So the first thing I want you to think about is, when you hear Patriot Act, is that we changed the law and the bureaucratic mind-set to allow for the sharing of information. It's vital. And others will describe what that means.

Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.

But a roving wiretap means -- it was primarily used for drug lords. A guy, a pretty intelligence drug lord would have a phone, and in old days they could just get a tap on that phone. So guess what he'd do? He'd get him another phone, particularly with the advent of the cell phones. And so he'd start changing cell phones, which made it hard for our DEA types to listen, to run down these guys polluting our streets. And that changed, the law changed on -- roving wiretaps were available for chasing down drug lords. They weren't available for chasing down terrorists, see? And that didn't make any sense in the post-9/11 era. If we couldn't use a tool that we're using against mobsters on terrorists, something needed to happen.

The Patriot Act changed that. So with court order,law enforcement officials can now use what's called roving wiretaps, which will prevent a terrorist from switching cell phones in order to get a message out to one of his buddies.

Thirdly, to give you an example of what we're talking about, there's something called delayed notification warrants. Those are very important. I see some people, first responders nodding their heads about what they mean. These are a common tool used to catch mobsters. In other words, it allows people to collect data before everybody is aware of what's going on. It requires a court order. It requires protection under the law. We couldn't use these against terrorists, but we could use against gangs. “

[LeftNYC]

Feinstein using the Bush quote about warrants

"wire tap requires a court order"

[Arkansas Granny]

94. Gonzalez says Bush was referring to roving wire taps under

the Patriot Act. Claims Bush didn't lie.

[in_cog_ni_to]

77. Ha! DiFi read what the idiot said on the tape that was banned!

:thumbsup:

[gumby]

79. Is this the first step in the infamous Enabeling Legislation?

Is this the first legislative step in officially making Bush King For Life?

[rodeodance]

85. you have advanced a 'radical legal theory here today"--says Diane F.

[rodeodance]

90. and Congress is just 'advistory"---te he!! Here Congress--you are just

advisors. get that!

[rodeodance]

100. Huh--Diane told Gondy--she has read Fisa!!--good for her--te he.

[in_cog_ni_to]

91. Yes. and they are just going along with it. sad. sad. sad. The repukes

are TRAITORS. They are NOT defending our Constitution.

[Avalux]

84. Gonzalez is such a creep!

He's making my skin crawl - especially that answer to Feinstein - he believes the President has been forthcoming with the American people. :wtf:

[LeftNYC]

88. Go DiFi!!!!!!!!!!!!! nt

[ClayZ]

95. She is on top of this!

[wtmusic]

87. DiFi taking no prisoners---GOT DAYUM!!!

You go girl!!

[tridim]

101. I imagine the BFEE is seething right now..

Adding her to the top of the enemies list. Hire more security asap DiFi.

[JudyM]

92. He's offended at Feinstein suggesting that * is not fully forthcoming

with the American public. What a hoot!

[Sydnie]

93. AUMF? what is that? n/t

[The Witch]

96. Authorization for Use of Military Force n/t

[Sydnie]

98. thank you - Hadn't heard that term before n/t

[dchill]

97. Senator Specter....

SWEAR THIS ASSHOLE IN!

You are wasting our time with lies!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

99. Thread 9 is up!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x335494

[in_cog_ni_to]

132. Powerline News link.

http://www.powerlineblognews.com/

[in_cog_ni_to]

102. Section 109 of the FISA allows them to break the law. n/t

[Sydnie]

103. Section 109? Need to check that out closely n/t

[The Witch]

105. OMG I just realized what their legal argument is

FISA: "You can't go outside FISA unless you pass another law."

Admin: "AUMF *WAS* another law."

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[wtmusic]

106. Gonzales stuttering like a mofo

We believe...we believe...we believe...:crazy:

[dweller]

107. provision 109

the slippery slope.

dp

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

108. Hopefully the Dem Senators are very po'ed. I believe they are.

I might point out however that the Watergate hearings were not conducted in an atmosphere of blatant hostility.

If they act angry, you know the pukes and MSM will jump on that rather than the substance of what they say.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

118. Leahy seemed the most angry. n/t

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

123. Specter seemed impatient with Gonzo's dodges. n/t

[wtmusic]

109. Can the president suspend posse commitatus..

or engage in ILLEGAL PROPAGANDA? :evilgrin:

DiFi on fire

[Pachamama]

116. He refused to answer it - silence is his answer...his silence is deafening

:scared:

[Laura PourMeADrink]

119. he also refused to answer whether or not anyone is opening US mail.

[Pachamama]

122. Another Yes.....

Gawd, things are pretty scary....when are Americans going to wake up?

[HereSince1628]

110. Go DiFI you are on the RIGHT topic now. Every dodge shows

there is very much more being hidden.

[Tinksrival]

111. Hypothetical??

Those are dirrect questions! Nothing is hypothetical, you bastard. I can't take much more!
Blood presure is to the roof.

[Tinksrival]

113. Yes, Sessions you putz

ROBERTO ALBERTO GONDY IS A LIAR!!! Now STFU

[Viva_La_Revolution]

121. Thread 9 is up!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x335494

[wtmusic]

115. Sessions: "POTUS lied??? The AG lied?? That's just not fayer..."

"It's not true, and it's not fayer..."

[LibDemAlways]

124. I can't even imagine the inbred freeper

moron types who would send an asshole like Sessions to the US Senate.

[Pachamama]

120. Sessions is trying to imply it "refers to International calls" only...what

pray tell (and I want someone to ask this question) falls under the definition of "international calls"?

Does that mean Domestic to Domestic calls that "happen" to be routed through foreign soil?

I think the definition needs to get specific because just letting them off the hook by saying "international calls" doesn't fly....these slimebags are capable and very likely have done things like the routing of calls through foreign soil and then will try to define it as an "International Call" when its two US citizens in the US calling eachother.... :grr:

[Kindigger]

125. Also

Sessions asked "is it my understanding this involves only Al Q, and international calls?"

Gonzo replied, "yes, only international calls."

Hmmm.... what happened to Al Q in his answer?

[feelthebreeze]

129. Thread 10 up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x335786

[Pachamama]

130. GOOD CATCH!

:applause:

Very very very important point....

I learned years ago (when I was subpoened in an investigation by the Justice Dept) that you answer very very carefully and choose words carefully too.....I was coached so thoroughly, so make no doubt that Gonzales, a coach in his own right, didn't omit that word by accident....

[wtmusic]

126. Sleepah Cells...the Supah Bowl...

Thayer comin' to get us!! :scared:

[Epiphany4z]

127. Why do they keep talking about

Historical cases before FISA?

[wtmusic]

131. You know the answer to that

There's no good reason, except to tug on America's jingo-chain.

[Kindigger]

128. Why?

Why do we keep going back to George Washington, written messages, telegraphs etc.?

I thought this was a NEW kind of war?